There have been very few Rice players arrested compared to other schools. Our rate of arrest is no higher and probably lower than the average for 18-22 males in the USA.

(05-16-2016 10:02 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 09:24 PM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 02:32 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 02:23 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Sumlin succeeded at UH by any measure... but has struggled at A&M. Why? He recruited and now has lost a dozen 'star' QBs.

We know he can assemble a staff and coach, but we still don't know really if Hermann can recruit. He didn't recruit the players responsible for his ascencion at Rice or his success at UH... and perhaps not in between. Of course now that he's won, it's easier... so maybe that's not a requirement at UH anymore (for now)... but it would be for us... unless you think he could take ours and beat his. /Bum Phillips

As I posted above, Sumlin would be worth at least a look if A&M shows him the door this season. He can likely attract a good staff and mold his recruiting to fit Rice's requirements.

At Rice, he'd be coming "home" to Houston. He can coach a bit (maybe not enough to win the SEC and beat Saban's Alabama, but likely good enough to run the table in CUSA several times in a row). He's still young enough to have something in him, and would have something to prove. Not a guarantee of course, but I don't see any guarantees eminating from South Main in football at present, unless I missed a press release.

Heck we could then schedule Alabama and see how we do. 4-0?

I hope we keep our priorities. Sumlin is NOT a good fit at Rice: FBS Leaders in Player Arrests

If you are saying we shouldn't have a head coach at Rice whose players have been arrested then you have a problem with our present head football coach. I won't post it, but you can google Rice football players arrested if you want. I don't like it, and it would be better if it didn't happen, but let's not play the game where we pretend that it doesn't or hasn't because that is simply not being truthful.

Based upon the statistics I have seen, that is a flawed comparison. I agree that Sumlin DOES NOT belong at Rice

(05-16-2016 10:02 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 09:24 PM)ArmChairOwl Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 02:32 PM)GoodOwl Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 02:23 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  Sumlin succeeded at UH by any measure... but has struggled at A&M. Why? He recruited and now has lost a dozen 'star' QBs.

We know he can assemble a staff and coach, but we still don't know really if Hermann can recruit. He didn't recruit the players responsible for his ascencion at Rice or his success at UH... and perhaps not in between. Of course now that he's won, it's easier... so maybe that's not a requirement at UH anymore (for now)... but it would be for us... unless you think he could take ours and beat his. /Bum Phillips

As I posted above, Sumlin would be worth at least a look if A&M shows him the door this season. He can likely attract a good staff and mold his recruiting to fit Rice's requirements.

At Rice, he'd be coming "home" to Houston. He can coach a bit (maybe not enough to win the SEC and beat Saban's Alabama, but likely good enough to run the table in CUSA several times in a row). He's still young enough to have something in him, and would have something to prove. Not a guarantee of course, but I don't see any guarantees eminating from South Main in football at present, unless I missed a press release.

Heck we could then schedule Alabama and see how we do. 4-0?

I hope we keep our priorities. Sumlin is NOT a good fit at Rice: FBS Leaders in Player Arrests

If you are saying we shouldn't have a head coach at Rice whose players have been arrested then you have a problem with our present head football coach. I won't post it, but you can google Rice football players arrested if you want. I don't like it, and it would be better if it didn't happen, but let's not play the game where we pretend that it doesn't or hasn't because that is simply not being truthful.

Are you kidding me? No one is trying to say that Rice players have never been in legal trouble before, but it is absurd to even try and insinuate that the arrests of Rice football players during DB's tenure compares in magnitude to those under Sumlin at A&M.

I believe there were four arrested during DBs tenure (someone correct me if I am wrong), and two of those were players who had rifles in their cars on campus. Sumlin had 7 between the end of 2013 and April 2014 (http://www.sbnation.com/college-football...ested-2014) and over a dozen in 2014 (http://espn.go.com/blog/ncfnation/post/_...f-crimes). I believe he has upwards of 20 arrests so far at A&M, and some are felonies.

Are you trying to suggest that since there has been a small smattering of legal issues over a 10 year career that we shouldn't seriously look at someone's ability to control their players' behavior and potentially disqualify them from consideration because they obviously have been unable to keep a significant portion of their players from making decisions that jeopardize their ability to be law abiding citizens?

To further compound how hilariously incomparable DB is to Sumlin in terms of not having their players do something that gets them arrested, from 2010-2015 A&M had 22 players arrested. Rice had 5.

https://twitter.com/ByRosenberg/status/6...1981094912

But also, just google "Sumlin football arrests" and read the myriad of articles about how many players have had run ins with the law while Sumlin has been head coach. This is a serious issue that, if Sumlin was even on our radar, would need to be addressed.

According to that list we had less than 5.

(05-16-2016 11:28 PM)bobreinhold1 Wrote:  According to that list we had less than 5.

Not being local, all I mostly see from a distance are the career track and winning from Sumlin. Actually, before I searched it yesterday, the only problems I knew about with Rice football players were the strip club/alcohol things that happened with under-aged recruits several years ago with hosts under Hatfield and Bobby May in 2004.

So, I was quite shocked to see that several Rice football players were actually arrested, some charged with a felony, that I would have thought unthinkable for any Rice caliber student athlete to be involved in, as well as others for drug-related arrests that were slightly less shocking, but still extremely disappointing and involving one of our touted NFL players while he was a student-athlete here on campus.

I had no idea before yesterday that kind of thing had gone on just recently under Coach Bailiff, who I had always been under the impression was above recruiting and accepting players involved in such things. And I guess that is what prompted my "what's the difference?" post above. I was extremely disappointed in both the players and in Coach Bailiff.

After looking at some of the stuff involving Sumlin's players, I am equally disappointed at the level College athletes in general continue to sink to. So, perhaps he is not the best solution for Rice, despite his ties to the area and on-field record.

More importantly, I wonder why Coach Bailiff did not dismiss the players in question from the team in keeping with his image as a coach above such things. Felonies and arrests for felonies have no place on the Rice campus, or any college campus, really.

The A&M players stories revealed they were arrested for things such as: speeding, parking in a handicap spot, not having a license on their person, public intoxication, noise violations, drug possession, and the sort. One former A&M player after he was no longer playing or in college apparently killed a jogger, which is terrible and tragic.

Both Sumlin and Bailiff have revealed sides through this information that I was not aware of previous to yesterday, and am disappointed in.

...one more thing. Despite having DJed at Ktru, I never did and never have done drugs of any kind. I just liked the music for the music's sake. I think that is stupid and a sign of unintelligence. I was always disappointed over how much drugs, and the severity of the level of them, were a part of the average Rice student's culture while I was on campus.

What are the violations of law that Rice players have committed that you are so shocked by? Possession of marijuana? There was the weapons incident, but that wasn't malicious.

(05-17-2016 05:16 PM)ExcitedOwl18 Wrote:  What are the violations of law that Rice players have committed that you are so shocked by? Possession of marijuana? There was the weapons incident, but that wasn't malicious.

Having a hunting rifle or shotgun, in your car prior to, or following, a hunting trip, is not equivalent of an AK-47 or a pistol, and from what I understand, concealed carry is now legal on a lot of public university campuses (but I agree with Rice's decision not to go that route).

TCU had a number of athletes involved in off-campus drug dealing several years back (more than just 1 or 2 involved).

No school is squeaky clean, but I'm fairly confident that Rice is far closer to a model program than 98% of Division 1 schools. It's easy to criticize any/every school who recruits an Aaron Hernandez, but in the end, it's still the individual who is responsible for their actions.

When you recruit a guy like Hernandez, part of the deal is that you're giving them a chance to get out from their background and rise above their past. What you can't necessarily know is whether it's a potentially good kid with a rotten set of circumstances that we're all happy we didn't have the misfortune of being burdened with while growing up, or a certified psychopath or gangster wannabe (in Hernandez's case, seemingly both?).

(05-16-2016 02:31 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 02:23 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-15-2016 11:01 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I'd much prefer an untested assistant that a coach who couldn't cut it in the P-5. If we are gonna roll the dice, let's do it on a relative unknown with big upside.

Don't terribly disagree.... other than the fact that lots of coaches are great at certain things, but not as great at others. I'd be fine with an assistant successful enough to get a shot to be a head coach who perhaps failed as a head coach....

Sumlin succeeded at UH by any measure... but has struggled at A&M. Why? He recruited and now has lost a dozen 'star' QBs.

We know he can assemble a staff and coach, but we still don't know really if Hermann can recruit. He didn't recruit the players responsible for his ascencion at Rice or his success at UH... and perhaps not in between. Of course now that he's won, it's easier... so maybe that's not a requirement at UH anymore (for now)... but it would be for us... unless you think he could take ours and beat his. /Bum Phillips

UH recruiting blew every other G5 off the map last year before they won all those games. They were the first ever G5 team to sign a 5 star (though there were circumstances helping them with that one). I'd say he can recruit.

I need to correct this (I'm guessing this line was originally given to you from a UH partisan). At a minimum, Southern Miss got the surprise signing of DeAndre Brown less than 10 years ago. He was a 5-star WR in HS.

Yes, they blew everyone away with who they got. But I'm with Hambone - show me your ability to continue to do it and get the results. They are certainly off to a strong start after year 1 (by winning with the previous coach's players).

And to Good Owl's point about Appalachian State, Michigan helped raise national awareness of the program, but how many around here realize that they won their third straight 1-AA championship at the end of that season? Winning 3 straight helped make that program as much as anything.

(05-17-2016 09:03 PM)gsloth Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 02:31 PM)cr11owl Wrote:  

(05-16-2016 02:23 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-15-2016 11:01 AM)RiceLad15 Wrote:  I'd much prefer an untested assistant that a coach who couldn't cut it in the P-5. If we are gonna roll the dice, let's do it on a relative unknown with big upside.

Don't terribly disagree.... other than the fact that lots of coaches are great at certain things, but not as great at others. I'd be fine with an assistant successful enough to get a shot to be a head coach who perhaps failed as a head coach....

Sumlin succeeded at UH by any measure... but has struggled at A&M. Why? He recruited and now has lost a dozen 'star' QBs.

We know he can assemble a staff and coach, but we still don't know really if Hermann can recruit. He didn't recruit the players responsible for his ascencion at Rice or his success at UH... and perhaps not in between. Of course now that he's won, it's easier... so maybe that's not a requirement at UH anymore (for now)... but it would be for us... unless you think he could take ours and beat his. /Bum Phillips

UH recruiting blew every other G5 off the map last year before they won all those games. They were the first ever G5 team to sign a 5 star (though there were circumstances helping them with that one). I'd say he can recruit.

I need to correct this (I'm guessing this line was originally given to you from a UH partisan). At a minimum, Southern Miss got the surprise signing of DeAndre Brown less than 10 years ago. He was a 5-star WR in HS.

Yes, they blew everyone away with who they got. But I'm with Hambone - show me your ability to continue to do it and get the results. They are certainly off to a strong start after year 1 (by winning with the previous coach's players).

And to Good Owl's point about Appalachian State, Michigan helped raise national awareness of the program, but how many around here realize that they won their third straight 1-AA championship at the end of that season? Winning 3 straight helped make that program as much as anything.

I think that line was from an ESPN article but I'd have to go back to find it.

(05-17-2016 09:03 PM)gsloth Wrote:  And to Good Owl's point about Appalachian State, Michigan helped raise national awareness of the program, but how many around here realize that they won their third straight 1-AA championship at the end of that season? Winning 3 straight helped make that program as much as anything.

I knew they had won a few at that time, but wasn't sure how many.

Also, their former AD went to GA State and helped that program afterwards. they just went to their first bowl game last season, and they also just bought the old Atlanta Braves stadium and parking lots and will convert that into their new football stadium, and take the old Atlanta Fulton-County Stadium site (now a parking lot) and make it their baseball field complete with tribute to path of hank Aaron;s record 715th Homer from back in '74. Plus will build tons of dorms and classrooms along with some retail for the area, so that part of town will finally get the revitalization and day-to-day population it needs.

Good things happen when you win big!

I agree, we need to avoid being routed. Always, but especially on national TV.

I agree, it is unlikely that THIS will be the mythical sigwin. (but not impossible)

BUT, it ( a sigwin) will happen again someday, and when it does, I want the whole country to see it. it would be such a heartbreaker for it to be unnoticed. Is an unnoticed sigwin still a SIGwin? If a tree falls in the forest...

I remember a couple guys getting in trouble for pot and I remember the gun incident (which was absolutely not malicious, though it was obviously a bad decision by those involved). But I don't remember hearing about anything that actually troubled me. I mean, pot is legal in a bunch of states now. I don't condone breaking the law, but I'm not sure using it is any worse in my mind than going 15 mph over the speed limit. Sexual assault, theft, regular assault, etc. are the kinds of things that Rice absolutely needs to avoid.

(05-18-2016 12:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I agree, we need to avoid being routed. Always, but especially on national TV.

I agree, it is unlikely that THIS will be the mythical sigwin. (but not impossible)

BUT, it ( a sigwin) will happen again someday, and when it does, I want the whole country to see it. it would be such a heartbreaker for it to be unnoticed. Is an unnoticed sigwin still a SIGwin? If a tree falls in the forest...

Let's go back and play hypothetical... We beat Marshall in 2013 for the championship, then we beat Miss State in the Liberty... have an OUTRAGEOUS recruiting class and upset A&M and Notre Dame (or at least play them damn close) to start the next season... which probably also means we don't lose to ODU or maybe even not to Marshall or La Tech... we're getting top 25 votes... playing for the access bowl slot and all of a sudden, we're getting fans and money and attention. In other words, there has been a transformation. (I'd remind everyone that even after losing to A&M and Notre Dame AND ODU, we were STILL not mathematically eliminated from the access bowl)

The Liberty would be VERY high profile... Notre Dame as well which would make A&M even bigger...

but one could easily argue that the 'inflection point' (Sig win?) was the victory against Marshall that perhaps the fewest people watched or noticed.

Depending on how you define the word, would the Liberty be the 'signature'? Would Notre Dame? If you beat Marshall and Miss State and Notre Dame and A&M but then lose to ODU and Marshall and La Tech, were they upsets or transformation? I suppose that depends on whether we still blow out Fresno... and if we follow that up with another team arguably worthy of the top 25 or whether we are closer to 80 (or 100) and trying to figure out how to piece together 6 wins. If the latter, then those wins were just upsets, right? No Sig Win.

I've always thought it a shame that the 2008 team didn't get a chance to play a higher profile opponent (at least a P5) in the Texas Bowl. The Notre Dame rumors were swirling for awhile but eventually fell apart.

Perhaps that could have been our TCU/Sun Bowl moment ..

(05-18-2016 12:49 PM)Orange County Owl Wrote:  I've always thought it a shame that the 2008 team didn't get a chance to play a higher profile opponent (at least a P5) in the Texas Bowl. The Notre Dame rumors were swirling for awhile but eventually fell apart.

Perhaps that could have been our TCU/Sun Bowl moment ..

But 2009...

(05-18-2016 12:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-18-2016 12:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I agree, we need to avoid being routed. Always, but especially on national TV.

I agree, it is unlikely that THIS will be the mythical sigwin. (but not impossible)

BUT, it ( a sigwin) will happen again someday, and when it does, I want the whole country to see it. it would be such a heartbreaker for it to be unnoticed. Is an unnoticed sigwin still a SIGwin? If a tree falls in the forest...

Let's go back and play hypothetical... We beat Marshall in 2013 for the championship, then we beat Miss State in the Liberty... have an OUTRAGEOUS recruiting class and upset A&M and Notre Dame (or at least play them damn close) to start the next season... which probably also means we don't lose to ODU or maybe even not to Marshall or La Tech... we're getting top 25 votes... playing for the access bowl slot and all of a sudden, we're getting fans and money and attention. In other words, there has been a transformation. (I'd remind everyone that even after losing to A&M and Notre Dame AND ODU, we were STILL not mathematically eliminated from the access bowl)

The Liberty would be VERY high profile... Notre Dame as well which would make A&M even bigger...

but one could easily argue that the 'inflection point' (Sig win?) was the victory against Marshall that perhaps the fewest people watched or noticed.

Depending on how you define the word, would the Liberty be the 'signature'? Would Notre Dame? If you beat Marshall and Miss State and Notre Dame and A&M but then lose to ODU and Marshall and La Tech, were they upsets or transformation? I suppose that depends on whether we still blow out Fresno... and if we follow that up with another team arguably worthy of the top 25 or whether we are closer to 80 (or 100) and trying to figure out how to piece together 6 wins. If the latter, then those wins were just upsets, right? No Sig Win.

I'd rather be in the position to debate whether it was Liberty Bowl, ND or aTm that was the signature win. Because if there is an argument, odds are, you have reached the goal.

(05-18-2016 06:30 PM)Antarius Wrote:  

(05-18-2016 12:17 PM)Hambone10 Wrote:  

(05-18-2016 12:50 AM)OptimisticOwl Wrote:  I agree, we need to avoid being routed. Always, but especially on national TV.

I agree, it is unlikely that THIS will be the mythical sigwin. (but not impossible)

BUT, it ( a sigwin) will happen again someday, and when it does, I want the whole country to see it. it would be such a heartbreaker for it to be unnoticed. Is an unnoticed sigwin still a SIGwin? If a tree falls in the forest...

Let's go back and play hypothetical... We beat Marshall in 2013 for the championship, then we beat Miss State in the Liberty... have an OUTRAGEOUS recruiting class and upset A&M and Notre Dame (or at least play them damn close) to start the next season... which probably also means we don't lose to ODU or maybe even not to Marshall or La Tech... we're getting top 25 votes... playing for the access bowl slot and all of a sudden, we're getting fans and money and attention. In other words, there has been a transformation. (I'd remind everyone that even after losing to A&M and Notre Dame AND ODU, we were STILL not mathematically eliminated from the access bowl)

The Liberty would be VERY high profile... Notre Dame as well which would make A&M even bigger...

but one could easily argue that the 'inflection point' (Sig win?) was the victory against Marshall that perhaps the fewest people watched or noticed.

Depending on how you define the word, would the Liberty be the 'signature'? Would Notre Dame? If you beat Marshall and Miss State and Notre Dame and A&M but then lose to ODU and Marshall and La Tech, were they upsets or transformation? I suppose that depends on whether we still blow out Fresno... and if we follow that up with another team arguably worthy of the top 25 or whether we are closer to 80 (or 100) and trying to figure out how to piece together 6 wins. If the latter, then those wins were just upsets, right? No Sig Win.

I'd rather be in the position to debate whether it was Liberty Bowl, ND or aTm that was the signature win. Because if there is an argument, odds are, you have reached the goal.

That was my point in my initial post on the subject.

There has to be a transformation for it to be a 'signature'... otherwise it is merely an upset. So when people talk about 'big' wins, of course you can argue that beating Marshall was a big win, as was beating Frsno in the bowl and many others...

But none of them seemed to signify anything other than that one event, or perhaps season. We're still consistently ranked 80 or higher (choose your method) which isn't measurably different from where we were in the 1980s in the SWC when we won only 1-4 games a year.

So, was the Liberty Bowl a signature loss? The inflection point seems to be reversed.