BW reacts to Ole Miss coach Hugh Freeze's comments on quality of life as a reason for coaches to support the ban on satellite camps.

“I am so tired of coaches complaining about quality of life when 95 percent of Americans will never touch the money or vacation time we get. Shame on us.”


http://footballscoop.com/news/i-am-so-ti...y-of-life/

EDIT: Fixed the page error. Thanks

(04-21-2016 11:35 AM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  BW reacts to Ole Miss coach Hugh Freeze's comments on quality of life as a reason for coaches to support the ban on satellite camps.

“I am so tired of coaches complaining about quality of life when 95 percent of Americans will never touch the money or vacation time we get. Shame on us.”


http://footballscoop.com/news/i-am-so-ti...ign=buffer

Page error.

(04-21-2016 11:50 AM)AimHigh Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 11:35 AM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  BW reacts to Ole Miss coach Hugh Freeze's comments on quality of life as a reason for coaches to support the ban on satellite camps.

“I am so tired of coaches complaining about quality of life when 95 percent of Americans will never touch the money or vacation time we get. Shame on us.”


http://footballscoop.com/news/i-am-so-ti...ign=buffer

Page error.

Try this: http://footballscoop.com/news/i-am-so-ti...y-of-life/

Anger issues related to loss of satellite camps?

my view on the whole issue is the affect satellite camps can have for a * or ** recruit. There are 128 FBS and what 110 FCS right now? To round up the number would be 240...every school targets 25-30 rosters spots with 2-3 kids per roster spot that they look to fill.
240*25*2.5= 15000 incoming freshmen each year
7 on 7 camps and the elite recruit showcases manage for arguments sake 25%...so 3750 kids (probably all the 3, 4 and 5 star kids)
What avenue does your G5 school or mine or Bo Diddley FCS Tech to reach the other 11000 or so high schoolers? Do you trust the AAU? or the recruitment service (video and agent stringers?
These camps can help a kid from a smaller recruiting area/town where the 'services' don't know him...we all have kids that played Class 1A (in Virginia that's our tiniest HS classification), were never seen and walked on, then made it good. I would rather those kids meet G5 and FCS coaches, get a better dose of coaching and be seen.

If the gutless NCAA and mighty SEC cared about the kids and not their turf/prestige/shoe size, a compromise could be reached...such as a limit on number of camps any NCAA FB coach could attend (and how many they can hold) or a minimum number of schools have to support a particular camp say 3 FBS and 3 FCS.

This larger group of kids, maybe 75% of kids wanting to play the game they love and heck maybe even an education should have a chance too.

(04-21-2016 05:41 PM)HeadsetGuy Wrote:  my view on the whole issue is the affect satellite camps can have for a * or ** recruit. There are 128 FBS and what 110 FCS right now? To round up the number would be 240...every school targets 25-30 rosters spots with 2-3 kids per roster spot that they look to fill.
240*25*2.5= 15000 incoming freshmen each year
7 on 7 camps and the elite recruit showcases manage for arguments sake 25%...so 3750 kids (probably all the 3, 4 and 5 star kids)
What avenue does your G5 school or mine or Bo Diddley FCS Tech to reach the other 11000 or so high schoolers? Do you trust the AAU? or the recruitment service (video and agent stringers?
These camps can help a kid from a smaller recruiting area/town where the 'services' don't know him...we all have kids that played Class 1A (in Virginia that's our tiniest HS classification), were never seen and walked on, then made it good. I would rather those kids meet G5 and FCS coaches, get a better dose of coaching and be seen.

If the gutless NCAA and mighty SEC cared about the kids and not their turf/prestige/shoe size, a compromise could be reached...such as a limit on number of camps any NCAA FB coach could attend (and how many they can hold) or a minimum number of schools have to support a particular camp say 3 FBS and 3 FCS.

This larger group of kids, maybe 75% of kids wanting to play the game they love and heck maybe even an education should have a chance too.

I don't see the foundation for your line of thinking being very solid. The fact that there are very few unfilled scholarship spots each year indicates that all 240 of those teams are finding enough players.

I'm guessing you either don't follow recruiting closely, or have never really talked to the coaches about how it works. A college coaching staff will visit hundreds of high schools each year. The coaches are each assigned a territory to work and develop. The biggest part of that development is relationship building with HS coaches across their territory. Good staffs don't rely on recruiting services, that's a recipe for disaster (ask Mack Brown, that's what he did to tear down Texas). Good recruiting staffs turn area HS coaches into scouts. There are very, very few legit D1 recruits that slip through the cracks.

Yes, there are many examples of walk ons that become great college players and even go to the NFL, but it's not like coaches didn't know about those kids. There's a lot of reasons for these diamonds in the rough. Late bloomers, played in the wrong system and the biggest one, a coach knows he can get the kid to walk on without spending a scholarship.

Take Marshall for example. This year we really recruited and signed almost 40 kids, the scholarship guys and a strong group of preferred walk ons. Some of the scholarship players will wash out and the walk ons who prove themselves will get those schollie spots down the road.

Scholarships are the most precious resource of any college sports and there are way more players than spots. Coaches who want all these camps simply don't want to do all the groundwork necessary to build a solid recruiting foundation and all the road time to nurture relationships.

(04-21-2016 09:46 PM)banker Wrote:  [quote='HeadsetGuy' pid='13215325' dateline='1461278507'] Coaches who want all these camps simply don't want to do all the groundwork necessary to build a solid recruiting foundation and all the road time to nurture relationships.

Your argument makes sense, but the SEC guy says the current system takes less time, while the camps would take more. I think the SEC guys are making a bogus argument, when the real reason they are against it is because they want to keep other schools out of "their" territory.

(04-22-2016 08:29 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 09:46 PM)banker Wrote:  [quote='HeadsetGuy' pid='13215325' dateline='1461278507'] Coaches who want all these camps simply don't want to do all the groundwork necessary to build a solid recruiting foundation and all the road time to nurture relationships.

Your argument makes sense, but the SEC guy says the current system takes less time, while the camps would take more. I think the SEC guys are making a bogus argument, when the real reason they are against it is because they want to keep other schools out of "their" territory.

Bingo. In my opinion, Nick Saban would be all over it in favor of these satellite camps if he was the head coach at Michigan State.

(04-22-2016 09:48 AM)ODU AGGIE Wrote:  

(04-22-2016 08:29 AM)monarx Wrote:  

(04-21-2016 09:46 PM)banker Wrote:  [quote='HeadsetGuy' pid='13215325' dateline='1461278507'] Coaches who want all these camps simply don't want to do all the groundwork necessary to build a solid recruiting foundation and all the road time to nurture relationships.

Your argument makes sense, but the SEC guy says the current system takes less time, while the camps would take more. I think the SEC guys are making a bogus argument, when the real reason they are against it is because they want to keep other schools out of "their" territory.

Bingo. In my opinion, Nick Saban would be all over it in favor of these satellite camps if he was the head coach at Michigan State.

Lifestyles of the rich and famous. Screw everyone else.

Let's be honest, SEC coaches have to work less at recruiting than anyone else. They don't have to fight for the recruits they want, the recruits have to fight to get in. They do want to keep the northern schools out as much as possible, or at least make it as difficult as possible on them.

However, what I don't get is why the ODU coach would want to make life easier on these schools to pick his back pocket? The only explanation I can come up with is that the coaches keep and split a portion of the camp profits. Give him a raise and tell him to stop worrying about the camps.

(04-22-2016 07:31 PM)banker Wrote:  Let's be honest, SEC coaches have to work less at recruiting than anyone else. They don't have to fight for the recruits they want, the recruits have to fight to get in. They do want to keep the northern schools out as much as possible, or at least make it as difficult as possible on them.

However, what I don't get is why the ODU coach would want to make life easier on these schools to pick his back pocket? The only explanation I can come up with is that the coaches keep and split a portion of the camp profits. Give him a raise and tell him to stop worrying about the camps.

BW's been good to us, so I don't think his character needs to be called into question. He runs a clean program and I think his altruism is genuine.

He needs to get us to the 7-5 FBS season milestone before we enhance his contract further though IMO. First one is always the one you remember.

I guess that doing something because it's the right thing to do, even if it might not be in your own selfish interest, is a concept that is unfathomable to you, banker.

I have no idea of Coach Wilder's motives. Nor do you. But why assume the worst? Are the people in your circle of life really all that awful?

Have a camp and invite P5, G5 and FCS coaches to it so they can compete with you for camp attendees.

... or have a camp and piss off the ACC and SEC by inviting 3 BIG 10 schools, which is what Wilder did by inviting Michigan, Penn State and Maryland.

Both ideas stink.

Coach Wilder's job isn't to make sure no football recruit gets left behind, his job is to field the best football team he can muster at ODU. He needs to worry about his team and not others.

ODU can't strengthen its' brand if it dilutes it by holding camps full of different brands.

Wilder has a son who just went through the recruiting process and his sons friends have as well. He's seen first hand the struggle it is for some kids to go to camp and land a scholarship. Not the SEC bound kids probably, but the 2 star guys who might get overlooked. Of course, he has also said that it gets lots of kids who think they are good enough to play for the Ohio States of the world onto our campus, where they become familiar with our program and are able to build a relationship with our coaches too. Not all of these kids who think they can play for OSU etc will get a P5 offer, and thats where we hope to swoop in and land some overlooked gems.

(04-22-2016 08:24 PM)Sirloin Burger Wrote:  Have a camp and invite P5, G5 and FCS coaches to it so they can compete with you for camp attendees.

... or have a camp and piss off the ACC and SEC by inviting 3 BIG 10 schools, which is what Wilder did by inviting Michigan, Penn State and Maryland.

Both ideas stink.

Coach Wilder's job isn't to make sure no football recruit gets left behind, his job is to field the best football team he can muster at ODU. He needs to worry about his team and not others.

ODU can't strengthen its' brand if it dilutes it by holding camps full of different brands.

ODU's camps feature P5 and FCS schools. The 3 B1G schools are in fact 3 separate camps. And I betcha that SEC and ACC schools were invited too.

Here is last year's camp with Penn State. I bet that the camps this year would've had a similar roster.


1000 kids went to this camp. They had to turn kids away from it so many players wanted to come. You think they're all going to P5 schools? Even if they don't go to ODU, all these kids go back to their school and talk about ODU. They talk to their friends, classmates and fellow teammates. Suddenly you've got thousands of kids in high schools across the region that have familiarity with ODU. So now, when you're recruiting these kids, it's not "ODU? Who's ODU?" it's: "ODU? Oh yeah, my teammate went to one of your camps and had a great time". You cannot buy that kind of publicity.

Wilder would love to have had camps with SEC and ACC coaches, but their league bylaws prevented it. It wasn't Bobby trying to exclude them, they did it on their own. He'd be more than happy to host a joint camp with those schools.

I agree with you BT. At this point I'm done discussing it and folks can agree to disagree as both views have merit and I won't change anyone's mind on the subject, and that's fine. I think the overall good for the kids outweighs winning at all costs. I'm certainly proud of that.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk

(04-22-2016 07:46 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I guess that doing something because it's the right thing to do, even if it might not be in your own selfish interest, is a concept that is unfathomable to you, banker.

I have no idea of Coach Wilder's motives. Nor do you. But why assume the worst? Are the people in your circle of life really all that awful?

I didn't realize a person could have such thin skin, or be so misguided.

First, it wasn't an attack on his character. If you know anything about the G5 level of college football you know that one of the benefits of these camps, one that is counted on by the assistant coaches, is that they augment their pay by holding them. Obviously, the more kids that come, the more money they generate, the more the coaches make. That's no anything to do with character, all coaches make money off the camps as they should since they work them.

Second, to the misguided part. ODU pays the coaching staff to build and maintain a successful football program for ODU, not to serve as a recruiting liaison for potentially overlooked high school football players in the region. When you have a camp with 1,000 players the ODU staff interacts with no more kids than they would if they had their own camp with 200 players, and maybe even less depending on how many schools are involved and how they break down the position groups.

Look at it like this, let's say you own a small, regional company that does web site development and you decide to have a big expo and invite all your top customers and prospects in to show them your facilities and capabilities. Would it be wise on your part to also invite all your local competitors plus some far larger national companies to come also? Would your main concern be that you just want to make sure all the prospective customers in your market get exposure to web development companies?

(04-23-2016 11:39 AM)banker Wrote:  

(04-22-2016 07:46 PM)AdoptedMonarch Wrote:  I guess that doing something because it's the right thing to do, even if it might not be in your own selfish interest, is a concept that is unfathomable to you, banker.

I have no idea of Coach Wilder's motives. Nor do you. But why assume the worst? Are the people in your circle of life really all that awful?

I didn't realize a person could have such thin skin, or be so misguided.

First, it wasn't an attack on his character. If you know anything about the G5 level of college football you know that one of the benefits of these camps, one that is counted on by the assistant coaches, is that they augment their pay by holding them. Obviously, the more kids that come, the more money they generate, the more the coaches make. That's no anything to do with character, all coaches make money off the camps as they should since they work them.

Second, to the misguided part. ODU pays the coaching staff to build and maintain a successful football program for ODU, not to serve as a recruiting liaison for potentially overlooked high school football players in the region. When you have a camp with 1,000 players the ODU staff interacts with no more kids than they would if they had their own camp with 200 players, and maybe even less depending on how many schools are involved and how they break down the position groups.

Look at it like this, let's say you own a small, regional company that does web site development and you decide to have a big expo and invite all your top customers and prospects in to show them your facilities and capabilities. Would it be wise on your part to also invite all your local competitors plus some far larger national companies to come also? Would your main concern be that you just want to make sure all the prospective customers in your market get exposure to web development companies?

You make very good points -- and a large number of ODU fans agree with you.

What I was addressing was your earlier statement that you "do not get" Bobby Wilder's motivation in pushing for these camps. Why isn't (as Cr8n suggests) altruism a perfectly valid explanation?

ODU is not a small, regional web development company. It is a large and important member of the southeastern Virginia community. Being a good local citizen is well within the mission of our athletics programs, even if there is no apparent direct and immediate benefit ensuing to the school.