As a competitor to the ESPN Family after the contract takes effect?

Personally I don't get FS-1 and 2 and haven't missed it (as there is very little on I would watch). FOX obviously is big time and I think their ratings will improve with more B1G games with the B12. I might look at adding FOX/FX/etc.. with my Sling Account but I'm taking a wait and see.

I wonder if FS 1 + 2 gather an audience anything close to ESPN/2/U? I'm not so sure.

I quote John Bragg below as he summed up the main players concisely and I added some clarifying inputs:

Quote:"Fox is close to signing a deal that gives it half of the Big Ten’s available media rights package, according to several sources."

I think that we're past the point of Tier 1, Tier 2 and Tier 3 meaning much of anything. Tier 1 (OTA) Tier 2 (ESPN) Tier 3 (local) was an artifact of the <100 cable channel universe of 20 years ago. That's no longer how it works. Pretty much every college conference has a different setup now.

SEC is closest to the traditional 1-2-3 with CBS/ESPN-2-U/SEC Network
ACC has most of the package on ESPN/2/U, with "Tier 3" on Raycom syndication (FOX RSN/ACC Local Channel Networks). (TexanMark Add: Some ABC Slots)(TexanMark Add--> Notre Dame Has NBC Home Games and their Other sports are mainly with the ACC)
XII has almost everything split between ESPN and Fox, with each school having their own Tier 3 setup (even if half of them are grouped together with Fox Sports Southwest/Fox Sports College).
PAC has the best content split between PACnet/ESPN/ABC, with the rest on PACnet and the local PACnets.
And now the Big Ten is going to split their best content between Fox and ????, with the rest on BTN.

The Big East is almost all on Fox Sports 1. The AAC is almost all on ESPN networks, with CBS-SN sublicensing a slice of the pie.

The old "Tier 1 Game of the Week on ABC/CBS, Tier 2 on ESPN/2, Tier 3 on your local station" doesn't apply to anyone anymore.

(04-20-2016 09:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  As a competitor to the ESPN Family after the contract takes effect?

Personally I don't get FS-1 and 2 and haven't missed it (as there is very little on I would watch). FOX obviously is big time and I think their ratings will improve with more B1G games with the B12. I might look at adding FOX/FX/etc.. with my Sling Account but I'm taking a wait and see.

I wonder if FS 1 + 2 gather an audience anything close to ESPN/2/U? I'm not so sure.

Depends what you mean by "legit".

If "legit" means being a network that will draw in viewers for its specific sports content, then I believe FS1 and FS2 were already largely there even without the Big Ten. Fox already has the best lineup of sports content outside of ESPN even without the Big Ten: MLB, Big 12, Pac-12, Big East, US Open, FIFA, Champions League, NASCAR, UFC, etc.

If "legit" means being a network where a program (even a low quality one) actually gets propped up simply by being shown on that network, then I don't believe *anyone* can or ever will compete with ESPN on that front. The power of ESPN's promotion comes from the strength of its shoulder programming and media properties: SportsCenter, the talk shows, ESPN Radio, the ESPN websites, podcasts, mobile apps, etc. Many companies have tried for years and years to compete with ESPN and its 24/7 multimedia platforms and they have all failed miserably. Sporting events can be bought and exclusive and viewers will show up for them (see, for example, FS1's ratings for the Women's World Cup and MLB playoffs or NBCSN's ratings for the Olympics), but viewers simply don't watch the other programs on those networks in the way that they watch ESPN. ESPN's other platforms simply have a certain "je ne sais quoi" that competitors simply cannot match.

Some cable companies dropped all Fox channels including FX, Fox News, FS1 and so forth. They can't afford them and ESPN at the same time. This been going on since the early 2000.

(04-20-2016 10:01 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  ESPN's other platforms simply have a certain "je ne sais quoi" that competitors simply cannot match.

ESPN's other platforms have a 30-year head start on Fox Sports.

Fox might eventually become more of a draw on the internet and for non-live TV programming. If they do it will be because sports fans were drawn in by attractive live sports and stuck around for other content. So they're doing the right thing by accumulating more top-tier content, though as ESPN has learned, the number crunchers will eventually complain about the cost of all that top-tier content.

(04-20-2016 10:03 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Some cable companies dropped all Fox channels including FX, Fox News, FS1 and so forth. They can't afford them and ESPN at the same time. This been going on since the early 2000.

Fox News and FX are in more households than ESPN. An

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/07...july-2015/

(04-20-2016 09:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  As a competitor to the ESPN Family after the contract takes effect?

Personally I don't get FS-1 and 2 and haven't missed it (as there is very little on I would watch). FOX obviously is big time and I think their ratings will improve with more B1G games with the B12. I might look at adding FOX/FX/etc.. with my Sling Account but I'm taking a wait and see.

I wonder if FS 1 + 2 gather an audience anything close to ESPN/2/U? I'm not so sure.

I think it will push up further the hierarchy with the Big 10 content. Perhaps they can help put FS 1 and 2 on the same basic tier as ESPN/2

(04-20-2016 10:14 AM)PGEMF Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:03 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Some cable companies dropped all Fox channels including FX, Fox News, FS1 and so forth. They can't afford them and ESPN at the same time. This been going on since the early 2000.

Fox News and FX are in more households than ESPN. An

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/07...july-2015/

True...but really it is only a million or so homes...not that much of a difference.

FOX is OTA so in the era of cord cutting that is important.

(04-20-2016 10:19 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 09:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  As a competitor to the ESPN Family after the contract takes effect?

Personally I don't get FS-1 and 2 and haven't missed it (as there is very little on I would watch). FOX obviously is big time and I think their ratings will improve with more B1G games with the B12. I might look at adding FOX/FX/etc.. with my Sling Account but I'm taking a wait and see.

I wonder if FS 1 + 2 gather an audience anything close to ESPN/2/U? I'm not so sure.

I think it will push up further the hierarchy with the Big 10 content. Perhaps they can help put FS 1 and 2 on the same basic tier as ESPN/2

I think the AAC is about to get a ton more exposure soon. Will ESPN trade exposure for paying them still below market?

There isn't going to be ANY Big Ten content on FS2. 25 football games Fox has- it'll be like 15 Fox/10 FS1. Might see some other games on FS2- Big 12, Pac 12- but not Big Ten.

(04-20-2016 09:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  As a competitor to the ESPN Family after the contract takes effect?

Personally I don't get FS-1 and 2 and haven't missed it (as there is very little on I would watch). FOX obviously is big time and I think their ratings will improve with more B1G games with the B12. I might look at adding FOX/FX/etc.. with my Sling Account but I'm taking a wait and see.

I wonder if FS 1 + 2 gather an audience anything close to ESPN/2/U? I'm not so sure.

Last year, FOX usually only broadcast one afternoon OR evening college football game on Saturday. Only three times did FOX have a Big 12 AND PAC 12 game on the same Saturday.

FS1 only had 1-2 college football games on 8 Saturdays in 2015. There were 3 games on Saturday only 5 times in 2015. FS1 only had 5 Thursday games, including opening night and Thanksgiving. There were only 5 Friday games, 2 of those on Black Friday. FS1's ratings were generally poor - but not many intriguing matchups.

Adding good B1G inventory is a game-changer.

Starting in 2017, I imagine that FOX would show at least two games most weekends. And, I would suspect that FS1 would show 3 game each week, with some weeks having 4 games from noon to 10pm ET. And, I would suspect that the FS1 ratings will improve quickly as Fox would have the inventory to place some quality matchups on FS1.

For basketball, FOX and FS1 will have pretty much all Big East inventory and 50 B1G bball games. They will be able to promote some pretty decent basketball games.

Thursday Night College Football is not competing well with the NFL...hate to say it but I like Friday night better (yes, I know about HS Football)

(04-20-2016 10:10 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:01 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  ESPN's other platforms simply have a certain "je ne sais quoi" that competitors simply cannot match.

ESPN's other platforms have a 30-year head start on Fox Sports.

Fox might eventually become more of a draw on the internet and for non-live TV programming. If they do it will be because sports fans were drawn in by attractive live sports and stuck around for other content. So they're doing the right thing by accumulating more top-tier content, though as ESPN has learned, the number crunchers will eventually complain about the cost of all that top-tier content.

I just don't see it because it's not as if though the 30-year head start for ESPN wasn't without any competition - the others have tried over and over again and they keep failing. The only ancillary cable sports show outside of ESPN that has gained any true following is "Inside the NBA" on TNT, and that's powered by the unique presence of Charles Barkley. Look at the laundry list of ESPN personalities that left and either didn't find much success or even ended up coming back (see Michelle Beadle and Rachel Nichols). Fox has had an Internet presence as long as ESPN. CBS has tried investing in its online presence for years and years and it's still only a fraction of ESPN's web platform. CBS actually has a large stable of top tier sports radio stations (such as WFAN in New York and WSCR in Chicago), yet all of their attempts to build a national radio network have been thwarted and those stations are 99% focused on local programming.

Synergy is an area where ESPN is simply *better* than anyone else. It shouldn't be a surprise - its corporate parent of Disney is arguably the BEST at synergy and branding BY FAR of any company in history. I've never heard of a Comcast fan because they liked Universal Studios and NBC or a Fox fan because they like Fox movies and TV (distinct from Fox News fans, which are a different breed), but you will find millions of *Disney* fans all over that will travel to Disney World, watch ABC and the Disney Channel, buy Disney products, watch all Disney movies, etc. This isn't just about a head start: ESPN is part of a company whose entire existence is maximizing synergies and brands. That's something that you can't buy or set up even if you followed Disney's playbook verbatim (because believe me, EVERYONE wants the brand loyalty that Disney has) - it's a complete *culture* aspect that is unique to Disney and can't be replicated.

(04-20-2016 10:26 AM)stever20 Wrote:  There isn't going to be ANY Big Ten content on FS2. 25 football games Fox has- it'll be like 15 Fox/10 FS1. Might see some other games on FS2- Big 12, Pac 12- but not Big Ten.

Fox can't put Pac-12 FB games on FS2 because the contract only allows Fox to use channels that are in at least 80 million homes. There might be a similar clause in Fox's deal with the Big 12.

(04-20-2016 10:49 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:26 AM)stever20 Wrote:  There isn't going to be ANY Big Ten content on FS2. 25 football games Fox has- it'll be like 15 Fox/10 FS1. Might see some other games on FS2- Big 12, Pac 12- but not Big Ten.

Fox can't put Pac-12 FB games on FS2 because the contract only allows Fox to use channels that are in at least 80 million homes. There might be a similar clause in Fox's deal with the Big 12.

well the one that just signed the deal sure as hell isn't going there. So there may be your answer on will FS2 be viable.

(04-20-2016 10:24 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:19 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 09:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  As a competitor to the ESPN Family after the contract takes effect?

Personally I don't get FS-1 and 2 and haven't missed it (as there is very little on I would watch). FOX obviously is big time and I think their ratings will improve with more B1G games with the B12. I might look at adding FOX/FX/etc.. with my Sling Account but I'm taking a wait and see.

I wonder if FS 1 + 2 gather an audience anything close to ESPN/2/U? I'm not so sure.

I think it will push up further the hierarchy with the Big 10 content. Perhaps they can help put FS 1 and 2 on the same basic tier as ESPN/2

I think the AAC is about to get a ton more exposure soon. Will ESPN trade exposure for paying them still below market?

This is likely true for the ACC as well. ESPN will need to replace B1G games on ABC and ESPN with ACC and AAC inventory that would have previously been shown on Thursday/Friday night or ESPNU. Then, ESPN will replace a lot of the Thursday and Friday night inventory with games that were previously on ESPNU or even ESPN3 - then, finally ESPNU from ESPN3 inventory.

(04-20-2016 10:50 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:49 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:26 AM)stever20 Wrote:  There isn't going to be ANY Big Ten content on FS2. 25 football games Fox has- it'll be like 15 Fox/10 FS1. Might see some other games on FS2- Big 12, Pac 12- but not Big Ten.

Fox can't put Pac-12 FB games on FS2 because the contract only allows Fox to use channels that are in at least 80 million homes. There might be a similar clause in Fox's deal with the Big 12.

well the one that just signed the deal sure as hell isn't going there. So there may be your answer on will FS2 be viable.

FS2 won't have Pac-12 or MLB, and likely not Big 12 or Big Ten either, unless Fox gets FS2 into 80 million homes, and Fox would probably have to give FS2 to cable/satellite for free or almost free to get that done.

(04-20-2016 11:02 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:50 AM)stever20 Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:49 AM)Wedge Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:26 AM)stever20 Wrote:  There isn't going to be ANY Big Ten content on FS2. 25 football games Fox has- it'll be like 15 Fox/10 FS1. Might see some other games on FS2- Big 12, Pac 12- but not Big Ten.

Fox can't put Pac-12 FB games on FS2 because the contract only allows Fox to use channels that are in at least 80 million homes. There might be a similar clause in Fox's deal with the Big 12.

well the one that just signed the deal sure as hell isn't going there. So there may be your answer on will FS2 be viable.

FS2 won't have Pac-12 or MLB, and likely not Big 12 or Big Ten either, unless Fox gets FS2 into 80 million homes, and Fox would probably have to give FS2 to cable/satellite for free or almost free to get that done.

Big 12 has a similar arrangement as the Pac 12 on coverage. They will just have 2 Fox games and 3 FS1 games with some TH/F games. FS2 will have CUSA. Maybe an occasional game will get on FX, but I think Fox is trying to get FS1 up to ESPN levels. Of course, they've got to get to ESPN2 levels first.

2015 average CFB audience (from charts on 2nd page)
CBS 5,000,000 (roughly)
ABC 4,000,000
NBC 3,000,000
ESPN 2,500,000
Fox 2,400,000
ESPN2 900,000
FS1 600,000
ESPNU 350,000
ESPNNews 200,000

http://big12fanatics.com/media-matters-t...nalysis/2/

(04-20-2016 10:54 AM)YNot Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:24 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 10:19 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(04-20-2016 09:36 AM)TexanMark Wrote:  As a competitor to the ESPN Family after the contract takes effect?

Personally I don't get FS-1 and 2 and haven't missed it (as there is very little on I would watch). FOX obviously is big time and I think their ratings will improve with more B1G games with the B12. I might look at adding FOX/FX/etc.. with my Sling Account but I'm taking a wait and see.

I wonder if FS 1 + 2 gather an audience anything close to ESPN/2/U? I'm not so sure.

I think it will push up further the hierarchy with the Big 10 content. Perhaps they can help put FS 1 and 2 on the same basic tier as ESPN/2

I think the AAC is about to get a ton more exposure soon. Will ESPN trade exposure for paying them still below market?

This is likely true for the ACC as well. ESPN will need to replace B1G games on ABC and ESPN with ACC and AAC inventory that would have previously been shown on Thursday/Friday night or ESPNU. Then, ESPN will replace a lot of the Thursday and Friday night inventory with games that were previously on ESPNU or even ESPN3 - then, finally ESPNU from ESPN3 inventory.

The ACC will not get paid as much as the SEC/B1G but ABC/ESPN will need to keep them close...they do not want any of their brands (colleges) being siphoned to FOX. The ACC has quietly moving up the Power Conference Chart with strong performances in almost all the sports across the board.

I see the ACC negotiating for more ABC/ESPN time for FB and working with ESPN on a cross platform vehicle for their Network.

If ESPN wasn't willing to spend money to get the Big Ten, which gets great ratings, they aren't going to spend more money for the ACC. The ACC's problem is that their football has maybe 4-5 games for the entire year that anyone gives a damn about. With this massive increase for the Big Ten, it's going to be nearly impossible for the ACC to keep up. And ESPN isn't creating a network for the ACC in this climate.