(04-01-2016 05:38 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(03-31-2016 06:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-31-2016 01:43 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 11:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  With N.D. signing the Big 10 hockey deal ESPN has to be at least a little bit nervous. I think at some point if they assess what the future loss of N.D. as a partial might mean, coupled with the economic disparity the ACC is suffering, that ESPN will revisit the N.C. State & Virginia Tech to the SEC to make room for Texas, another Texas school, and Oklahoma & Oklahoma State to the ACC.

That keeps two prime targets out of the FOX held or un-owned conferences, secures the value of the ACC, makes N.D.'s stay more likely, and gives the SECN two huge new markets.

I don't think that the ACC would necessarily have to give up both VT & NC State to bring those 4 in. 18 is a workable number but IF ND did decide to come all in then 20 wouldn't be out of the question. A move to make room for them would be possible as well, this could be how VT goes to the SEC or B1G. Of course 16 would be better but IF VT & NC State prefer to remain in the ACC, or if Tobacco Road won't let them go, it only hurts the ACC by having more members to split the $ with. If 16 is a must for the SEC & B1G there still are some pieces to choose from. (TCU & WV to the SEC/ Kansas & UCONN to B1G?)

ACC 18
West: Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State, TCU/Baylor/TT, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, VT/ND

East: FSU, Clemson, GT, Virginia, NC, Duke, NC State, Miami, WF

Play your 8 division plus 1 crossover. You could also drop TCU/Baylor/TT & keep VT with ND if they initially come all in.

ACC 20
A Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, 2 of TCU/Baylor/TT/Kansas

B Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, ND

C FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, NC State

D NC, Duke, Virginia, VT, WF

You could combine 2 to make a division & rotate the combinations every year or every other year. Example; A&B with C&D then A&D with B&C. Not ideal but doable.

Lenville it won't profit the ACC and Big 12 simply to add them together. There are only 3 Big 12 schools that add to the ACC's value. There are some tag-a-longs you will need to take to win that deal.

If the SEC and ACC both move to 18 then taking 6 Big 12 schools becomes viable for the ACC, but only if they let 2 go to the SEC.

Texas, Baylor, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas State (if N.D. doesn't go all in)

Then the SEC might take O.S.U. (new state & DFW presence) and W.V.U. to go with Virginia Tech & N.C. State. But face it outside of Virginia Tech there are no big scores in that grouping for the SEC.

I'm not sure what it would take to get this done, but I think the one suggested above would be the best the ACC could do. And if the rest of the Big 12 players were off the table and the ACC was secure I bet the Big 10 would take Kansas & Iowa State.

That's certainly an acceptable proposal but the trick is convincing Tobacco Road. As a counter proposal I would suggest having VT join the SEC & Syracuse join the B1G. I think this would satisfy Tobacco Road. The ACC would get ND all in with Oklahoma, Texas & Oklahoma State. The SEC would have their pick between TCU, Baylor, TT & WV. The B1G would get Kansas along with Syracuse. This would put all 3 conferences at 16. This would consolidate half of the B12. To further strengthen the offer for the SEC they could talk with Miami if another Texas team isn't desirable. The ACC would then take a 2nd Texas team as the Canes replacement.

Would it be best for the ACC to give up NC State? Absolutely, but long standing traditions & rivalries will make it difficult to separate the Carolina schools. They are so set in their ways that it would probably be easier to teach quantum mechanics to a 2 year old.

Bold part #1: Miami might be an interesting work around. T.C.U. for part of DFW might be what that would be up against. It would be interesting to see what the conference would do.

Bold part #2: It is only difficult because the tradition is having a block of 4 votes for all conference issues, six with Virginia and Virginia Tech. Still in a 16 school conference they would have 5. So maybe they let Va Tech go. Maybe?

(04-01-2016 08:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 05:38 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(03-31-2016 06:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-31-2016 01:43 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(03-30-2016 11:16 PM)JRsec Wrote:  With N.D. signing the Big 10 hockey deal ESPN has to be at least a little bit nervous. I think at some point if they assess what the future loss of N.D. as a partial might mean, coupled with the economic disparity the ACC is suffering, that ESPN will revisit the N.C. State & Virginia Tech to the SEC to make room for Texas, another Texas school, and Oklahoma & Oklahoma State to the ACC.

That keeps two prime targets out of the FOX held or un-owned conferences, secures the value of the ACC, makes N.D.'s stay more likely, and gives the SECN two huge new markets.

I don't think that the ACC would necessarily have to give up both VT & NC State to bring those 4 in. 18 is a workable number but IF ND did decide to come all in then 20 wouldn't be out of the question. A move to make room for them would be possible as well, this could be how VT goes to the SEC or B1G. Of course 16 would be better but IF VT & NC State prefer to remain in the ACC, or if Tobacco Road won't let them go, it only hurts the ACC by having more members to split the $ with. If 16 is a must for the SEC & B1G there still are some pieces to choose from. (TCU & WV to the SEC/ Kansas & UCONN to B1G?)

ACC 18
West: Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State, TCU/Baylor/TT, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, VT/ND

East: FSU, Clemson, GT, Virginia, NC, Duke, NC State, Miami, WF

Play your 8 division plus 1 crossover. You could also drop TCU/Baylor/TT & keep VT with ND if they initially come all in.

ACC 20
A Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, 2 of TCU/Baylor/TT/Kansas

B Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, ND

C FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, NC State

D NC, Duke, Virginia, VT, WF

You could combine 2 to make a division & rotate the combinations every year or every other year. Example; A&B with C&D then A&D with B&C. Not ideal but doable.

Lenville it won't profit the ACC and Big 12 simply to add them together. There are only 3 Big 12 schools that add to the ACC's value. There are some tag-a-longs you will need to take to win that deal.

If the SEC and ACC both move to 18 then taking 6 Big 12 schools becomes viable for the ACC, but only if they let 2 go to the SEC.

Texas, Baylor, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas State (if N.D. doesn't go all in)

Then the SEC might take O.S.U. (new state & DFW presence) and W.V.U. to go with Virginia Tech & N.C. State. But face it outside of Virginia Tech there are no big scores in that grouping for the SEC.

I'm not sure what it would take to get this done, but I think the one suggested above would be the best the ACC could do. And if the rest of the Big 12 players were off the table and the ACC was secure I bet the Big 10 would take Kansas & Iowa State.

That's certainly an acceptable proposal but the trick is convincing Tobacco Road. As a counter proposal I would suggest having VT join the SEC & Syracuse join the B1G. I think this would satisfy Tobacco Road. The ACC would get ND all in with Oklahoma, Texas & Oklahoma State. The SEC would have their pick between TCU, Baylor, TT & WV. The B1G would get Kansas along with Syracuse. This would put all 3 conferences at 16. This would consolidate half of the B12. To further strengthen the offer for the SEC they could talk with Miami if another Texas team isn't desirable. The ACC would then take a 2nd Texas team as the Canes replacement.

Would it be best for the ACC to give up NC State? Absolutely, but long standing traditions & rivalries will make it difficult to separate the Carolina schools. They are so set in their ways that it would probably be easier to teach quantum mechanics to a 2 year old.

Bold part #1: Miami might be an interesting work around. T.C.U. for part of DFW might be what that would be up against. It would be interesting to see what the conference would do.

Bold part #2: It is only difficult because the tradition is having a block of 4 votes for all conference issues, six with Virginia and Virginia Tech. Still in a 16 school conference they would have 5. So maybe they let Va Tech go. Maybe?

They don't have the same control over VT that they do over NC State.

(04-02-2016 01:16 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 08:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 05:38 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(03-31-2016 06:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-31-2016 01:43 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  I don't think that the ACC would necessarily have to give up both VT & NC State to bring those 4 in. 18 is a workable number but IF ND did decide to come all in then 20 wouldn't be out of the question. A move to make room for them would be possible as well, this could be how VT goes to the SEC or B1G. Of course 16 would be better but IF VT & NC State prefer to remain in the ACC, or if Tobacco Road won't let them go, it only hurts the ACC by having more members to split the $ with. If 16 is a must for the SEC & B1G there still are some pieces to choose from. (TCU & WV to the SEC/ Kansas & UCONN to B1G?)

ACC 18
West: Oklahoma, Texas, Oklahoma State, TCU/Baylor/TT, Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, VT/ND

East: FSU, Clemson, GT, Virginia, NC, Duke, NC State, Miami, WF

Play your 8 division plus 1 crossover. You could also drop TCU/Baylor/TT & keep VT with ND if they initially come all in.

ACC 20
A Texas, Oklahoma, Oklahoma St, 2 of TCU/Baylor/TT/Kansas

B Louisville, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, ND

C FSU, Clemson, GT, Miami, NC State

D NC, Duke, Virginia, VT, WF

You could combine 2 to make a division & rotate the combinations every year or every other year. Example; A&B with C&D then A&D with B&C. Not ideal but doable.

Lenville it won't profit the ACC and Big 12 simply to add them together. There are only 3 Big 12 schools that add to the ACC's value. There are some tag-a-longs you will need to take to win that deal.

If the SEC and ACC both move to 18 then taking 6 Big 12 schools becomes viable for the ACC, but only if they let 2 go to the SEC.

Texas, Baylor, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas State (if N.D. doesn't go all in)

Then the SEC might take O.S.U. (new state & DFW presence) and W.V.U. to go with Virginia Tech & N.C. State. But face it outside of Virginia Tech there are no big scores in that grouping for the SEC.

I'm not sure what it would take to get this done, but I think the one suggested above would be the best the ACC could do. And if the rest of the Big 12 players were off the table and the ACC was secure I bet the Big 10 would take Kansas & Iowa State.

That's certainly an acceptable proposal but the trick is convincing Tobacco Road. As a counter proposal I would suggest having VT join the SEC & Syracuse join the B1G. I think this would satisfy Tobacco Road. The ACC would get ND all in with Oklahoma, Texas & Oklahoma State. The SEC would have their pick between TCU, Baylor, TT & WV. The B1G would get Kansas along with Syracuse. This would put all 3 conferences at 16. This would consolidate half of the B12. To further strengthen the offer for the SEC they could talk with Miami if another Texas team isn't desirable. The ACC would then take a 2nd Texas team as the Canes replacement.

Would it be best for the ACC to give up NC State? Absolutely, but long standing traditions & rivalries will make it difficult to separate the Carolina schools. They are so set in their ways that it would probably be easier to teach quantum mechanics to a 2 year old.

Bold part #1: Miami might be an interesting work around. T.C.U. for part of DFW might be what that would be up against. It would be interesting to see what the conference would do.

Bold part #2: It is only difficult because the tradition is having a block of 4 votes for all conference issues, six with Virginia and Virginia Tech. Still in a 16 school conference they would have 5. So maybe they let Va Tech go. Maybe?

They don't have the same control over VT that they do over NC State.

Unfortunately there are always more issues than resolution when trying to divide the Big 12. The problem with taking any schools from the ACC (other than perhaps Virginia Tech, Miami, and N.C. State who are all duplicates) is that taking any without additions makes the conference too weak. It almost has to be handled in a brokered deal to make it work.

Oklahoma's issue is that they have to have either Texas or OSU in their conference to be able to schedule the other OOC. They can't all three be in different conferences and OSU can't be in a conference with Texas but without OU.

The ACC needs one or both of Texas and Oklahoma to be able to not only ultimately survive but to start closing the gap on pay. So if the SEC needs to take OSU to make that happen they are going to need at least one duplicated market from the ACC. Virginia Tech does fit that bill. If we don't get any then we probably need to take OU & OSU to at least land Oklahoma as a state and DFW. OU is #1 in DFW.

IMO if the Big 12 is to be broached between the ACC & SEC we both must move to 18 full members to finish the job without having to include the Big 10 in the negotiations. If the SEC took OU, KU, OSU, and WVU then Baylor, Texas, T.C.U. Kansas State would be a good division but that puts Kansas State on an awkward island for the ACC. Iowa State does the same. You need an Oklahoma school to bridge that gap. Therein lies the difficulty with all of these scenarios.

If the ACC is going to bridge that gap you really need to take 6 from the Big 12 so that they can form a division. If you do that you need to let a couple go if the number is 18.

***But, if the ACC jumps to 20 with N.D. all in you can add 5 without giving up anyone. The SEC could take 4. We actually would get the most value out of adding Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Iowa State. If the ACC took the 4 Texas schools and West Virginia that would be the most practical way to do it.

The problem with this strategy is in selling it to the SEC fan base. But strategically it would be devastatingly successful in preventing raids into the southwest or mid Atlantic.

Arkansas, Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

form the Western division for the SEC. Selling Iowa State and Kansas would be tough but they are both AAU, both good in basketball, and Iowa State fills their stadium even when the football team is doing poorly. This alignment gives Arkansas a chance to return to prominence.

Then
Alabama, L.S.U., Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M and Vanderbilt
could form a very nice central division of the SEC.

Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina and Tennessee
then form the eastern division.


The ACC then could divide something like this:

Boston College, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Syracuse, West Virginia

Duke, Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, Wake Forest

Baylor, Miami, Texas, T.C.U., Texas Tech

(04-02-2016 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 01:16 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 08:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 05:38 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(03-31-2016 06:04 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Lenville it won't profit the ACC and Big 12 simply to add them together. There are only 3 Big 12 schools that add to the ACC's value. There are some tag-a-longs you will need to take to win that deal.

If the SEC and ACC both move to 18 then taking 6 Big 12 schools becomes viable for the ACC, but only if they let 2 go to the SEC.

Texas, Baylor, T.C.U., Texas Tech, Oklahoma, Kansas State (if N.D. doesn't go all in)

Then the SEC might take O.S.U. (new state & DFW presence) and W.V.U. to go with Virginia Tech & N.C. State. But face it outside of Virginia Tech there are no big scores in that grouping for the SEC.

I'm not sure what it would take to get this done, but I think the one suggested above would be the best the ACC could do. And if the rest of the Big 12 players were off the table and the ACC was secure I bet the Big 10 would take Kansas & Iowa State.

That's certainly an acceptable proposal but the trick is convincing Tobacco Road. As a counter proposal I would suggest having VT join the SEC & Syracuse join the B1G. I think this would satisfy Tobacco Road. The ACC would get ND all in with Oklahoma, Texas & Oklahoma State. The SEC would have their pick between TCU, Baylor, TT & WV. The B1G would get Kansas along with Syracuse. This would put all 3 conferences at 16. This would consolidate half of the B12. To further strengthen the offer for the SEC they could talk with Miami if another Texas team isn't desirable. The ACC would then take a 2nd Texas team as the Canes replacement.

Would it be best for the ACC to give up NC State? Absolutely, but long standing traditions & rivalries will make it difficult to separate the Carolina schools. They are so set in their ways that it would probably be easier to teach quantum mechanics to a 2 year old.

Bold part #1: Miami might be an interesting work around. T.C.U. for part of DFW might be what that would be up against. It would be interesting to see what the conference would do.

Bold part #2: It is only difficult because the tradition is having a block of 4 votes for all conference issues, six with Virginia and Virginia Tech. Still in a 16 school conference they would have 5. So maybe they let Va Tech go. Maybe?

They don't have the same control over VT that they do over NC State.

Unfortunately there are always more issues than resolution when trying to divide the Big 12. The problem with taking any schools from the ACC (other than perhaps Virginia Tech, Miami, and N.C. State who are all duplicates) is that taking any without additions makes the conference too weak. It almost has to be handled in a brokered deal to make it work.

Oklahoma's issue is that they have to have either Texas or OSU in their conference to be able to schedule the other OOC. They can't all three be in different conferences and OSU can't be in a conference with Texas but without OU.

The ACC needs one or both of Texas and Oklahoma to be able to not only ultimately survive but to start closing the gap on pay. So if the SEC needs to take OSU to make that happen they are going to need at least one duplicated market from the ACC. Virginia Tech does fit that bill. If we don't get any then we probably need to take OU & OSU to at least land Oklahoma as a state and DFW. OU is #1 in DFW.

IMO if the Big 12 is to be broached between the ACC & SEC we both must move to 18 full members to finish the job without having to include the Big 10 in the negotiations. If the SEC took OU, KU, OSU, and WVU then Baylor, Texas, T.C.U. Kansas State would be a good division but that puts Kansas State on an awkward island for the ACC. Iowa State does the same. You need an Oklahoma school to bridge that gap. Therein lies the difficulty with all of these scenarios.

If the ACC is going to bridge that gap you really need to take 6 from the Big 12 so that they can form a division. If you do that you need to let a couple go if the number is 18.

***But, if the ACC jumps to 20 with N.D. all in you can add 5 without giving up anyone. The SEC could take 4. We actually would get the most value out of adding Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Iowa State. If the ACC took the 4 Texas schools and West Virginia that would be the most practical way to do it.

The problem with this strategy is in selling it to the SEC fan base. But strategically it would be devastatingly successful in preventing raids into the southwest or mid Atlantic.

Arkansas, Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

form the Western division for the SEC. Selling Iowa State and Kansas would be tough but they are both AAU, both good in basketball, and Iowa State fills their stadium even when the football team is doing poorly. This alignment gives Arkansas a chance to return to prominence.

Then
Alabama, L.S.U., Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M and Vanderbilt
could form a very nice central division of the SEC.

Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina and Tennessee
then form the eastern division.


The ACC then could divide something like this:

Boston College, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Syracuse, West Virginia

Duke, Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, Wake Forest

Baylor, Miami, Texas, T.C.U., Texas Tech

How about this for an alternative? The SEC could take Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas & WV. The ACC could take Texas, Baylor, TCU & Iowa St. ND would remain as a partial. This would add 30 million to the ACC population & would be able to get a premium price for an ACCN in Texas & Iowa.

(04-02-2016 04:32 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 01:16 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 08:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 05:38 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  That's certainly an acceptable proposal but the trick is convincing Tobacco Road. As a counter proposal I would suggest having VT join the SEC & Syracuse join the B1G. I think this would satisfy Tobacco Road. The ACC would get ND all in with Oklahoma, Texas & Oklahoma State. The SEC would have their pick between TCU, Baylor, TT & WV. The B1G would get Kansas along with Syracuse. This would put all 3 conferences at 16. This would consolidate half of the B12. To further strengthen the offer for the SEC they could talk with Miami if another Texas team isn't desirable. The ACC would then take a 2nd Texas team as the Canes replacement.

Would it be best for the ACC to give up NC State? Absolutely, but long standing traditions & rivalries will make it difficult to separate the Carolina schools. They are so set in their ways that it would probably be easier to teach quantum mechanics to a 2 year old.

Bold part #1: Miami might be an interesting work around. T.C.U. for part of DFW might be what that would be up against. It would be interesting to see what the conference would do.

Bold part #2: It is only difficult because the tradition is having a block of 4 votes for all conference issues, six with Virginia and Virginia Tech. Still in a 16 school conference they would have 5. So maybe they let Va Tech go. Maybe?

They don't have the same control over VT that they do over NC State.

Unfortunately there are always more issues than resolution when trying to divide the Big 12. The problem with taking any schools from the ACC (other than perhaps Virginia Tech, Miami, and N.C. State who are all duplicates) is that taking any without additions makes the conference too weak. It almost has to be handled in a brokered deal to make it work.

Oklahoma's issue is that they have to have either Texas or OSU in their conference to be able to schedule the other OOC. They can't all three be in different conferences and OSU can't be in a conference with Texas but without OU.

The ACC needs one or both of Texas and Oklahoma to be able to not only ultimately survive but to start closing the gap on pay. So if the SEC needs to take OSU to make that happen they are going to need at least one duplicated market from the ACC. Virginia Tech does fit that bill. If we don't get any then we probably need to take OU & OSU to at least land Oklahoma as a state and DFW. OU is #1 in DFW.

IMO if the Big 12 is to be broached between the ACC & SEC we both must move to 18 full members to finish the job without having to include the Big 10 in the negotiations. If the SEC took OU, KU, OSU, and WVU then Baylor, Texas, T.C.U. Kansas State would be a good division but that puts Kansas State on an awkward island for the ACC. Iowa State does the same. You need an Oklahoma school to bridge that gap. Therein lies the difficulty with all of these scenarios.

If the ACC is going to bridge that gap you really need to take 6 from the Big 12 so that they can form a division. If you do that you need to let a couple go if the number is 18.

***But, if the ACC jumps to 20 with N.D. all in you can add 5 without giving up anyone. The SEC could take 4. We actually would get the most value out of adding Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Iowa State. If the ACC took the 4 Texas schools and West Virginia that would be the most practical way to do it.

The problem with this strategy is in selling it to the SEC fan base. But strategically it would be devastatingly successful in preventing raids into the southwest or mid Atlantic.

Arkansas, Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

form the Western division for the SEC. Selling Iowa State and Kansas would be tough but they are both AAU, both good in basketball, and Iowa State fills their stadium even when the football team is doing poorly. This alignment gives Arkansas a chance to return to prominence.

Then
Alabama, L.S.U., Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M and Vanderbilt
could form a very nice central division of the SEC.

Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina and Tennessee
then form the eastern division.


The ACC then could divide something like this:

Boston College, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Syracuse, West Virginia

Duke, Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, Wake Forest

Baylor, Miami, Texas, T.C.U., Texas Tech

How about this for an alternative? The SEC could take Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas & WV. The ACC could take Texas, Baylor, TCU & Iowa St. ND would remain as a partial. This would add 30 million to the ACC population & would be able to get a premium price for an ACCN in Texas & Iowa.

I don't get having Iowa State on an island, but I think that could work as well.

(04-02-2016 05:24 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 04:32 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 11:12 AM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-02-2016 01:16 AM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(04-01-2016 08:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Bold part #1: Miami might be an interesting work around. T.C.U. for part of DFW might be what that would be up against. It would be interesting to see what the conference would do.

Bold part #2: It is only difficult because the tradition is having a block of 4 votes for all conference issues, six with Virginia and Virginia Tech. Still in a 16 school conference they would have 5. So maybe they let Va Tech go. Maybe?

They don't have the same control over VT that they do over NC State.

Unfortunately there are always more issues than resolution when trying to divide the Big 12. The problem with taking any schools from the ACC (other than perhaps Virginia Tech, Miami, and N.C. State who are all duplicates) is that taking any without additions makes the conference too weak. It almost has to be handled in a brokered deal to make it work.

Oklahoma's issue is that they have to have either Texas or OSU in their conference to be able to schedule the other OOC. They can't all three be in different conferences and OSU can't be in a conference with Texas but without OU.

The ACC needs one or both of Texas and Oklahoma to be able to not only ultimately survive but to start closing the gap on pay. So if the SEC needs to take OSU to make that happen they are going to need at least one duplicated market from the ACC. Virginia Tech does fit that bill. If we don't get any then we probably need to take OU & OSU to at least land Oklahoma as a state and DFW. OU is #1 in DFW.

IMO if the Big 12 is to be broached between the ACC & SEC we both must move to 18 full members to finish the job without having to include the Big 10 in the negotiations. If the SEC took OU, KU, OSU, and WVU then Baylor, Texas, T.C.U. Kansas State would be a good division but that puts Kansas State on an awkward island for the ACC. Iowa State does the same. You need an Oklahoma school to bridge that gap. Therein lies the difficulty with all of these scenarios.

If the ACC is going to bridge that gap you really need to take 6 from the Big 12 so that they can form a division. If you do that you need to let a couple go if the number is 18.

***But, if the ACC jumps to 20 with N.D. all in you can add 5 without giving up anyone. The SEC could take 4. We actually would get the most value out of adding Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and Iowa State. If the ACC took the 4 Texas schools and West Virginia that would be the most practical way to do it.

The problem with this strategy is in selling it to the SEC fan base. But strategically it would be devastatingly successful in preventing raids into the southwest or mid Atlantic.

Arkansas, Iowa State, Kansas, Missouri, Oklahoma, Oklahoma State

form the Western division for the SEC. Selling Iowa State and Kansas would be tough but they are both AAU, both good in basketball, and Iowa State fills their stadium even when the football team is doing poorly. This alignment gives Arkansas a chance to return to prominence.

Then
Alabama, L.S.U., Mississippi, Mississippi State, Texas A&M and Vanderbilt
could form a very nice central division of the SEC.

Auburn, Florida, Georgia, Kentucky, South Carolina and Tennessee
then form the eastern division.


The ACC then could divide something like this:

Boston College, Pittsburgh, Notre Dame, Syracuse, West Virginia

Duke, Louisville, North Carolina, Virginia, Virginia Tech

Clemson, Florida State, Georgia Tech, N.C. State, Wake Forest

Baylor, Miami, Texas, T.C.U., Texas Tech

How about this for an alternative? The SEC could take Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, Kansas & WV. The ACC could take Texas, Baylor, TCU & Iowa St. ND would remain as a partial. This would add 30 million to the ACC population & would be able to get a premium price for an ACCN in Texas & Iowa.

I don't get having Iowa State on an island, but I think that could work as well.

Iowa has a larger population than Kansas, by 200,000 & I believe they have a more rabid football fan base. Neither are really desirable but it would take 8 to dissolve the B12. With Texas you really don't need 4 Texas schools, another state adds to the population & brings additional revenue.

I would be happier just taking 3 from Texas & getting ND football.

I proposed a few years back on Mr. SEC that the we should essentially merge with the Big 12. One of the reasons for this is that the weight of this larger conference would ultimately generate the wealth needed to pull key properties from the ACC. I still believe that.

If for no other reason, we wouldn't have to worry about splitting schools with the ACC as there aren't a lot of great fits.

My preference would be to only take 4...Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa State. Ideally we could then pull 6 from the ACC and have a very well rounded 24. It probably wouldn't be that simple though.

Ultimately, the Big 12 only has 3 properties worth anything in UT, OU and KU. The next round will see the end of small market second/third banana schools like OKST, TTU, KSU and ISU in power conferences because they aren't worth what they bring.

None of those 3 want the SEC because all 3 are extremely entitled fan bases that got where they are by beating up on weaker competition for decades in the SWC and Big 8 and none of them really want to be in true Power conferences where they'd have to work a lot harder and settle for several years of finishing middle of the pack.

That why their real goal is what its always been. Keep their zombie rump conference at the big boy table and by any means hook or crook keep the big boy status and enough money flowing to them that at least they can be competitive nationally even if the rest of the conference isn't.

IOW, they want to be the Big East that makes it.

Good luck.

(04-02-2016 11:22 PM)AllTideUp Wrote:  I proposed a few years back on Mr. SEC that the we should essentially merge with the Big 12. One of the reasons for this is that the weight of this larger conference would ultimately generate the wealth needed to pull key properties from the ACC. I still believe that.

If for no other reason, we wouldn't have to worry about splitting schools with the ACC as there aren't a lot of great fits.

My preference would be to only take 4...Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and Iowa State. Ideally we could then pull 6 from the ACC and have a very well rounded 24. It probably wouldn't be that simple though.

This is especially true if our goal is AAU schools.

(04-03-2016 12:39 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  None of those 3 want the SEC because all 3 are extremely entitled fan bases that got where they are by beating up on weaker competition for decades in the SWC and Big 8 and none of them really want to be in true Power conferences where they'd have to work a lot harder and settle for several years of finishing middle of the pack.

That why their real goal is what its always been. Keep their zombie rump conference at the big boy table and by any means hook or crook keep the big boy status and enough money flowing to them that at least they can be competitive nationally even if the rest of the conference isn't.

Tenth this is ridiculous. The original B12 was neck and neck with the SEC as the best football conference going and it is still a deeper BB than the SEC. Guess what all conferences were smaller and had less competition in the past. Fewer schools means fewer schools that might be better than yours. If the competition was so weak A&M should have done **** tons better than they did the last 50-60 years.

The only university really benefiting in a big way, currently, from the B12 is Texas due to the LHN. KU, OU, and Texas all have political anchors hindering their free movement. All the schools that left had no little brothers to worry about and A&M had an alum as governor to help them escape (not to mention they were getting beat by the afraid of competition Texas/OU/KU in FB and BB). None of those three schools are afraid of competition. They have all scheduled tough OOC competition in their brand sport.

I got no problem with them trying to keep a heartland conference together originally. I am pretty sure they thought they were going to be able to pull a few schools that the ACC ended up landing/keeping. Trying to salvage the conference in some form will also make it easier when it fails to sell politically that they tried, but little brother(s) are going to have to fend for themselves. The problem they have now is the clock is ticking before they have to give it up as a ten school conference without more breadwinners (Texas/OU/KU) won't keep pace with the B1G or SEC financially, or more importantly to universities needing to fill campuses, exposure. Personally, I don't think the B12 is salvageable at this point and once the GOR runs out in 2025, if not sooner, the B12 will be dead as a power conference due to likely defections.

How about the ACC swaps out VT and NCST to the SEC for Auburn and Vanderbilt / Mississippi St. thus eliminating some duplicate coverage from Tennessee, North Carolina, Alabama, Mississippi and Virginia for both conferences. ESPN give both conferences added Coverage area in areas not covered currently and agree on compensation to make equal pay with an ACC network very similar to the SEC network. It will never happen though but it sounds good.

No offense, but that sounds like a horrible trade for the ACC...

Ralph D. Russo ‏@ralphDrussoAP Apr 7
@frankthetank111 NFL model for Big Ten if it can pull it off. Multiple partners. Multiple packages. Hello Thursday night B1G football.

I'm not a fan of Thursday Night football games. I think they take away from the game day experience on the campus. Having SEC teams start the season on a Thursday night or having the first SEC conference game of the year on a Thursday is about as far as I would go.

(04-10-2016 04:42 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  Ralph D. Russo ‏@ralphDrussoAP Apr 7
@frankthetank111 NFL model for Big Ten if it can pull it off. Multiple partners. Multiple packages. Hello Thursday night B1G football.

I'm not a fan of Thursday Night football games. I think they take away from the game day experience on the campus. Having SEC teams start the season on a Thursday night or having the first SEC conference game of the year on a Thursday is about as far as I would go.

Smacks of desperation I'd say.

(04-10-2016 06:33 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-10-2016 04:42 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  Ralph D. Russo ‏@ralphDrussoAP Apr 7
@frankthetank111 NFL model for Big Ten if it can pull it off. Multiple partners. Multiple packages. Hello Thursday night B1G football.

I'm not a fan of Thursday Night football games. I think they take away from the game day experience on the campus. Having SEC teams start the season on a Thursday night or having the first SEC conference game of the year on a Thursday is about as far as I would go.

Smacks of desperation I'd say.

True. Let's save Tuesdays for MAC/Sun Belt, Thursdays for ACC and B1G. Saturdays for SEC

(03-29-2016 08:55 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 04:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 12:14 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I've always thought that the pressure VT needs is for UVA to start caring about sports again and being good in the 2 sports the ACC cares about most: basketball and baseball. Nothing will tick the Hokeys off more than watching UVA becoming a conference darling while their FB program, one of the only ones left that gives the ACC even a semblance of legitimacy year in and year out, goes unappreciated.

Everybody always talks about the way Virginia Tech fits the ACC. That's laughable to me 10th. They fit the Big 10 and SEC much better than they do the Old Big East basketball first schools, or the ACC basketball first schools. N.C. State has too many obstacles to overcome. ESPN won't let F.S.U. go because it erodes too much value from the ACC. I think Virginia Tech is the most likely of the ACC properties to find a way out. ESPN doesn't has that value with UVa. Put Tech in the SEC and ESPN makes more money off of the SECN. Plus the ACC could add Cincinnati or Connecticut and gain more market value with that slot. The question then becomes who is #16? And where do they come from? If ESPN needs Florida State to prop up the ACC do they need Miami? The SEC could find benefit from a South Florida school with some notoriety. When the payout model shifts to more content, Miami would give the SEC the statistical majority of Florida viewers instead of the plurality of them we have now. Florida delivers 45% of college viewers in Florida. F.S.U. delivers 40% and Miami delivers around 10%. The other 5% is other.

It's far from what we would want, but if it was all that was available then a second trip to Florida for SEC members would benefit everyone, especially in a part of the state that could be a state unto itself culturally. F.S.U. and Florida are both Panhandle giants and carry the state down to Orlando.

Thoughts?

I don't think VT is a school ESPN would move just to move. The SEC would need to add someone at #15 that's very valuable and from outside the ACC and SEC. If the SEC added an OU, it would make sense, if no other B12 school of value could be added at 16, to switch VT from ACC to SEC in that instance and let the ACC add another market/school at that point.

I think the only way something like the move of a VT, or N.C. State occurs if if the bigger moves from the Big 12 to the ACC were already agreed upon and the SEC was going to take a couple of Big 12 schools as well. Let's say we added Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma State, and N.C. State for instance. The total value of that more than covers OSU. Iowa State, Kansas, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia and T.C.U. to the ACC then make sense. I'm not saying it has to be exactly these schools but the added value of a 6 team Western division would yield a network. Miami could play in the West as easily as anywhere else.

(04-10-2016 08:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-29-2016 08:55 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 04:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 12:14 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I've always thought that the pressure VT needs is for UVA to start caring about sports again and being good in the 2 sports the ACC cares about most: basketball and baseball. Nothing will tick the Hokeys off more than watching UVA becoming a conference darling while their FB program, one of the only ones left that gives the ACC even a semblance of legitimacy year in and year out, goes unappreciated.

Everybody always talks about the way Virginia Tech fits the ACC. That's laughable to me 10th. They fit the Big 10 and SEC much better than they do the Old Big East basketball first schools, or the ACC basketball first schools. N.C. State has too many obstacles to overcome. ESPN won't let F.S.U. go because it erodes too much value from the ACC. I think Virginia Tech is the most likely of the ACC properties to find a way out. ESPN doesn't has that value with UVa. Put Tech in the SEC and ESPN makes more money off of the SECN. Plus the ACC could add Cincinnati or Connecticut and gain more market value with that slot. The question then becomes who is #16? And where do they come from? If ESPN needs Florida State to prop up the ACC do they need Miami? The SEC could find benefit from a South Florida school with some notoriety. When the payout model shifts to more content, Miami would give the SEC the statistical majority of Florida viewers instead of the plurality of them we have now. Florida delivers 45% of college viewers in Florida. F.S.U. delivers 40% and Miami delivers around 10%. The other 5% is other.

It's far from what we would want, but if it was all that was available then a second trip to Florida for SEC members would benefit everyone, especially in a part of the state that could be a state unto itself culturally. F.S.U. and Florida are both Panhandle giants and carry the state down to Orlando.

Thoughts?

I don't think VT is a school ESPN would move just to move. The SEC would need to add someone at #15 that's very valuable and from outside the ACC and SEC. If the SEC added an OU, it would make sense, if no other B12 school of value could be added at 16, to switch VT from ACC to SEC in that instance and let the ACC add another market/school at that point.

I think the only way something like the move of a VT, or N.C. State occurs if if the bigger moves from the Big 12 to the ACC were already agreed upon and the SEC was going to take a couple of Big 12 schools as well. Let's say we added Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma State, and N.C. State for instance. The total value of that more than covers OSU. Iowa State, Kansas, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia and T.C.U. to the ACC then make sense. I'm not saying it has to be exactly these schools but the added value of a 6 team Western division would yield a network. Miami could play in the West as easily as anywhere else.

There you go again!
No college president is going to allow his school to join a conference where the heart of the conference is 1000 miles away. There are simple solutions. The problem is soothing egos.
The SEC is much like the Big 12 in that they abut more than one other conference. It is not logical to send any Big 12 school to the ACC (even Texas as a partial). The most logical conference to pull teams from is the SEC so that all conferences can be contiguous and somewhat regional.

To the PAC:
Oklahoma, OSU, Kansas, KSU

To the SEC:
Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU
From the SEC:
Missouri to the B1G
South Carolina to the ACC

To the B1G:
Iowa State joins Missouri

To the ACC:
West Virginia joins South Carolina

Does the SEC need 5 schools in Texas....heck no. But it does "lock down" more population than is in the rest of the SEC combined sans Florida, and shuts the B1G and the PAC out of the Texas recruiting market while opening it up to the entire SEC. What is the cost to the SEC? Nothing more than cannon fodder that is replaced by teams that have shown the ability to play at a higher level than either South Carolina or Missouri which actually gives the SEC more content.

Regionalism sells, gets fans involved, sells tickets and most importantly generates excitement, plus it locks up as much inventory for ESPN necessary to feed multiple outlets as well as the SECN for football, basketball, and baseball plus a multitude of other sports for men and women.



Is it ideal? No, there is never going to be a perfect solution, but this one works pretty well.

(04-11-2016 07:50 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-10-2016 08:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-29-2016 08:55 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 04:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 12:14 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I've always thought that the pressure VT needs is for UVA to start caring about sports again and being good in the 2 sports the ACC cares about most: basketball and baseball. Nothing will tick the Hokeys off more than watching UVA becoming a conference darling while their FB program, one of the only ones left that gives the ACC even a semblance of legitimacy year in and year out, goes unappreciated.

Everybody always talks about the way Virginia Tech fits the ACC. That's laughable to me 10th. They fit the Big 10 and SEC much better than they do the Old Big East basketball first schools, or the ACC basketball first schools. N.C. State has too many obstacles to overcome. ESPN won't let F.S.U. go because it erodes too much value from the ACC. I think Virginia Tech is the most likely of the ACC properties to find a way out. ESPN doesn't has that value with UVa. Put Tech in the SEC and ESPN makes more money off of the SECN. Plus the ACC could add Cincinnati or Connecticut and gain more market value with that slot. The question then becomes who is #16? And where do they come from? If ESPN needs Florida State to prop up the ACC do they need Miami? The SEC could find benefit from a South Florida school with some notoriety. When the payout model shifts to more content, Miami would give the SEC the statistical majority of Florida viewers instead of the plurality of them we have now. Florida delivers 45% of college viewers in Florida. F.S.U. delivers 40% and Miami delivers around 10%. The other 5% is other.

It's far from what we would want, but if it was all that was available then a second trip to Florida for SEC members would benefit everyone, especially in a part of the state that could be a state unto itself culturally. F.S.U. and Florida are both Panhandle giants and carry the state down to Orlando.

Thoughts?

I don't think VT is a school ESPN would move just to move. The SEC would need to add someone at #15 that's very valuable and from outside the ACC and SEC. If the SEC added an OU, it would make sense, if no other B12 school of value could be added at 16, to switch VT from ACC to SEC in that instance and let the ACC add another market/school at that point.

I think the only way something like the move of a VT, or N.C. State occurs if if the bigger moves from the Big 12 to the ACC were already agreed upon and the SEC was going to take a couple of Big 12 schools as well. Let's say we added Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma State, and N.C. State for instance. The total value of that more than covers OSU. Iowa State, Kansas, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia and T.C.U. to the ACC then make sense. I'm not saying it has to be exactly these schools but the added value of a 6 team Western division would yield a network. Miami could play in the West as easily as anywhere else.

There you go again!
No college president is going to allow his school to join a conference where the heart of the conference is 1000 miles away. There are simple solutions. The problem is soothing egos.
The SEC is much like the Big 12 in that they abut more than one other conference. It is not logical to send any Big 12 school to the ACC (even Texas as a partial). The most logical conference to pull teams from is the SEC so that all conferences can be contiguous and somewhat regional.

To the PAC:
Oklahoma, OSU, Kansas, KSU

To the SEC:
Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU
From the SEC:
Missouri to the B1G
South Carolina to the ACC

To the B1G:
Iowa State joins Missouri

To the ACC:
West Virginia joins South Carolina

Does the SEC need 5 schools in Texas....heck no. But it does "lock down" more population than is in the rest of the SEC combined sans Florida, and shuts the B1G and the PAC out of the Texas recruiting market while opening it up to the entire SEC. What is the cost to the SEC? Nothing more than cannon fodder that is replaced by teams that have shown the ability to play at a higher level than either South Carolina or Missouri which actually gives the SEC more content.

Regionalism sells, gets fans involved, sells tickets and most importantly generates excitement, plus it locks up as much inventory for ESPN necessary to feed multiple outlets as well as the SECN for football, basketball, and baseball plus a multitude of other sports for men and women.



Is it ideal? No, there is never going to be a perfect solution, but this one works pretty well.

I disagree X. I think a western division would be good for the ACC. The ACC needs more football brands with large fan bases & the B12 teams are the only ones possibly available. You don't force anyone out to make room for them but if 1 or 2 chose to leave that would be helpful. Having Texas & ND football would raise the ACC to an elite level. NC would play a western division team maybe once a season, I think that's a small tradeoff for long term stability.

SEC gets Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, TT & WV
B1G gets Kansas, VT, Iowa St, UCONN
ACC gets ND fully along with Texas, Baylor, TCU & Cincinnati

ACC
West: Texas, Baylor, TCU, Louisville, Cincinnati, Miami

North: ND, Pittsburgh, Syracuse, BC, NC State, WF

South: FSU, GT, Clemson, NC, Duke, Virginia

NC yearly conf. schedule:
FSU
GT
Clemson
Duke
Virginia
NC St (permanent rival)
Texas/Baylor/TCU/UL/Cincy/Miami
ND/Pitt/Syr/BC/WF

So you would be trading Miami for FSU & Pittsburgh for Clemson in this scenario. The only true loss would be VT which you could play every year OOC. You would only play a Texas team every other year. That's a great schedule.

(04-11-2016 07:50 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-10-2016 08:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-29-2016 08:55 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 04:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 12:14 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  I've always thought that the pressure VT needs is for UVA to start caring about sports again and being good in the 2 sports the ACC cares about most: basketball and baseball. Nothing will tick the Hokeys off more than watching UVA becoming a conference darling while their FB program, one of the only ones left that gives the ACC even a semblance of legitimacy year in and year out, goes unappreciated.

Everybody always talks about the way Virginia Tech fits the ACC. That's laughable to me 10th. They fit the Big 10 and SEC much better than they do the Old Big East basketball first schools, or the ACC basketball first schools. N.C. State has too many obstacles to overcome. ESPN won't let F.S.U. go because it erodes too much value from the ACC. I think Virginia Tech is the most likely of the ACC properties to find a way out. ESPN doesn't has that value with UVa. Put Tech in the SEC and ESPN makes more money off of the SECN. Plus the ACC could add Cincinnati or Connecticut and gain more market value with that slot. The question then becomes who is #16? And where do they come from? If ESPN needs Florida State to prop up the ACC do they need Miami? The SEC could find benefit from a South Florida school with some notoriety. When the payout model shifts to more content, Miami would give the SEC the statistical majority of Florida viewers instead of the plurality of them we have now. Florida delivers 45% of college viewers in Florida. F.S.U. delivers 40% and Miami delivers around 10%. The other 5% is other.

It's far from what we would want, but if it was all that was available then a second trip to Florida for SEC members would benefit everyone, especially in a part of the state that could be a state unto itself culturally. F.S.U. and Florida are both Panhandle giants and carry the state down to Orlando.

Thoughts?

I don't think VT is a school ESPN would move just to move. The SEC would need to add someone at #15 that's very valuable and from outside the ACC and SEC. If the SEC added an OU, it would make sense, if no other B12 school of value could be added at 16, to switch VT from ACC to SEC in that instance and let the ACC add another market/school at that point.

I think the only way something like the move of a VT, or N.C. State occurs if if the bigger moves from the Big 12 to the ACC were already agreed upon and the SEC was going to take a couple of Big 12 schools as well. Let's say we added Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma State, and N.C. State for instance. The total value of that more than covers OSU. Iowa State, Kansas, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia and T.C.U. to the ACC then make sense. I'm not saying it has to be exactly these schools but the added value of a 6 team Western division would yield a network. Miami could play in the West as easily as anywhere else.

There you go again!
No college president is going to allow his school to join a conference where the heart of the conference is 1000 miles away. There are simple solutions. The problem is soothing egos.
The SEC is much like the Big 12 in that they abut more than one other conference. It is not logical to send any Big 12 school to the ACC (even Texas as a partial). The most logical conference to pull teams from is the SEC so that all conferences can be contiguous and somewhat regional.

To the PAC:
Oklahoma, OSU, Kansas, KSU

To the SEC:
Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU
From the SEC:
Missouri to the B1G
South Carolina to the ACC

To the B1G:
Iowa State joins Missouri

To the ACC:
West Virginia joins South Carolina

Does the SEC need 5 schools in Texas....heck no. But it does "lock down" more population than is in the rest of the SEC combined sans Florida, and shuts the B1G and the PAC out of the Texas recruiting market while opening it up to the entire SEC. What is the cost to the SEC? Nothing more than cannon fodder that is replaced by teams that have shown the ability to play at a higher level than either South Carolina or Missouri which actually gives the SEC more content.

Regionalism sells, gets fans involved, sells tickets and most importantly generates excitement, plus it locks up as much inventory for ESPN necessary to feed multiple outlets as well as the SECN for football, basketball, and baseball plus a multitude of other sports for men and women.



Is it ideal? No, there is never going to be a perfect solution, but this one works pretty well.

Xlance cease with the South Carolina stuff. Even stop the Missouri stuff. The SEC isn't letting anyone go. If somebody want out it would be different. If we simply added Oklahoma and one other it would be enough for the SEC. We get a new state and DFW. Add West Virginia and N.D. and simply let the rest of the Big 12 figure out what they are going to do.

The SEC could add Oklahoma State, Kansas, or as second Texas school with the Sooners and it would still work out fine.

The issues for the ACC are adding enough to merit a network and keeping pace financially. Of course the two go hand in hand. You can add W.V.U. & N.D. and it will not be enough to assure your network. A western division would. So it's your issue and not that of the SEC.

(04-11-2016 01:00 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(04-11-2016 07:50 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(04-10-2016 08:48 PM)JRsec Wrote:  

(03-29-2016 08:55 PM)murrdcu Wrote:  

(03-28-2016 04:11 PM)JRsec Wrote:  Everybody always talks about the way Virginia Tech fits the ACC. That's laughable to me 10th. They fit the Big 10 and SEC much better than they do the Old Big East basketball first schools, or the ACC basketball first schools. N.C. State has too many obstacles to overcome. ESPN won't let F.S.U. go because it erodes too much value from the ACC. I think Virginia Tech is the most likely of the ACC properties to find a way out. ESPN doesn't has that value with UVa. Put Tech in the SEC and ESPN makes more money off of the SECN. Plus the ACC could add Cincinnati or Connecticut and gain more market value with that slot. The question then becomes who is #16? And where do they come from? If ESPN needs Florida State to prop up the ACC do they need Miami? The SEC could find benefit from a South Florida school with some notoriety. When the payout model shifts to more content, Miami would give the SEC the statistical majority of Florida viewers instead of the plurality of them we have now. Florida delivers 45% of college viewers in Florida. F.S.U. delivers 40% and Miami delivers around 10%. The other 5% is other.

It's far from what we would want, but if it was all that was available then a second trip to Florida for SEC members would benefit everyone, especially in a part of the state that could be a state unto itself culturally. F.S.U. and Florida are both Panhandle giants and carry the state down to Orlando.

Thoughts?

I don't think VT is a school ESPN would move just to move. The SEC would need to add someone at #15 that's very valuable and from outside the ACC and SEC. If the SEC added an OU, it would make sense, if no other B12 school of value could be added at 16, to switch VT from ACC to SEC in that instance and let the ACC add another market/school at that point.

I think the only way something like the move of a VT, or N.C. State occurs if if the bigger moves from the Big 12 to the ACC were already agreed upon and the SEC was going to take a couple of Big 12 schools as well. Let's say we added Oklahoma, Virginia Tech, Oklahoma State, and N.C. State for instance. The total value of that more than covers OSU. Iowa State, Kansas, Texas, Baylor, West Virginia and T.C.U. to the ACC then make sense. I'm not saying it has to be exactly these schools but the added value of a 6 team Western division would yield a network. Miami could play in the West as easily as anywhere else.

There you go again!
No college president is going to allow his school to join a conference where the heart of the conference is 1000 miles away. There are simple solutions. The problem is soothing egos.
The SEC is much like the Big 12 in that they abut more than one other conference. It is not logical to send any Big 12 school to the ACC (even Texas as a partial). The most logical conference to pull teams from is the SEC so that all conferences can be contiguous and somewhat regional.

To the PAC:
Oklahoma, OSU, Kansas, KSU

To the SEC:
Texas, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU
From the SEC:
Missouri to the B1G
South Carolina to the ACC

To the B1G:
Iowa State joins Missouri

To the ACC:
West Virginia joins South Carolina

Does the SEC need 5 schools in Texas....heck no. But it does "lock down" more population than is in the rest of the SEC combined sans Florida, and shuts the B1G and the PAC out of the Texas recruiting market while opening it up to the entire SEC. What is the cost to the SEC? Nothing more than cannon fodder that is replaced by teams that have shown the ability to play at a higher level than either South Carolina or Missouri which actually gives the SEC more content.

Regionalism sells, gets fans involved, sells tickets and most importantly generates excitement, plus it locks up as much inventory for ESPN necessary to feed multiple outlets as well as the SECN for football, basketball, and baseball plus a multitude of other sports for men and women.



Is it ideal? No, there is never going to be a perfect solution, but this one works pretty well.

Xlance cease with the South Carolina stuff. Even stop the Missouri stuff. The SEC isn't letting anyone go. If somebody want out it would be different. If we simply added Oklahoma and one other it would be enough for the SEC. We get a new state and DFW. Add West Virginia and N.D. and simply let the rest of the Big 12 figure out what they are going to do.

The SEC could add Oklahoma State, Kansas, or as second Texas school with the Sooners and it would still work out fine.

The issues for the ACC are adding enough to merit a network and keeping pace financially. Of course the two go hand in hand. You can add W.V.U. & N.D. and it will not be enough to assure your network. A western division would. So it's your issue and not that of the SEC.

It's not that anybody in the ACC really wants South Carolina back, but instead it's the logical move to free up space in the SEC to allow Oklahoma, Oklahoma State and Texas in.
JR, you realize that Oklahoma and OSU need to stay together to protect Bedlam or Oklahoma and Texas need to stay together to protect the RRR otherwise it puts too much pressure on the OOC scheduling for both rivalries.
From an ESPN perspective the pair of Oklahoma and Texas is as close to ideal as is possible and the inclusion of Oklahoma State is the easiest way to grease the skids.
There was a time when you understood that the Mouse was doing things for the Mouse first and if it benefited the conferences, then so be it. If ESPN could land Oklahoma and Texas without having to engage the west coast (which is a losing proposition) and without having to take more than one of the other 8 of the Big 12, then that a BIG WIN for the Mouse. Unfortunately that puts the SEC over the 16 team limit, and the logical place to put an ESPN property is in the ACC (which is another ESPN property). It could just as well be Kentucky, Tennessee or Vanderbilt but those are all charter members of the SEC and it wouldn't be right. The overwhelming choice of the folks I know would be Florida, but again a charter member (plus the SEC wouldn't ever give up their 51% control of the state). That leaves the ONLY expendable SEC property that abuts another ESPN entity, which happens to be South Carolina.
None of our folks are delusional enough to believe that we will match the SEC or the B1G dollar for dollar in revenue (especially if the SECN included Texas and Oklahoma), but we do want to stay close enough (and I honestly believe that is the goal of ESPN too).
All you have to do is look at it on a map.
So don't lecture me about giving up on South Carolina because I really don't care about the chickens, you really need to be taking to Skipper. The move is logical and worth more in dollars than the collective bruised ego of the SEC or the pride swallowing of many schools in the ACC by allowing the Gamecocks to come back.
I understand you would be happy with Oklahoma and one other (you know that I always felt that school would be Baylor), but with the way things have progressed, I think ESPN feels that there is a real chance to land Texas in the SEC. And it would be a smart move on the part of the Longhorns too, because they would end up being an afterthought in the collegiate sports world if their two biggest rivals were playing in the SEC and they weren't.
Now if you are ready and willing to give up the Gators, let's talk.