(03-09-2016 08:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 08:22 AM)ken d Wrote:  If you put the tourney in New York, it will be for reasons other than its convenience to some fans.

BINGO.

Interesting facts: Syracuse is 246 miles from New York City; Boston College is only 210 miles. Also, UVa is closer (341 miles) to NYC than is Pitt (368 mi).

Interesting. I had thought Syracuse was a bit closer than that. Much of their fan base is, drawing heavily from the north Jersey and Hudson River valley areas.

(03-09-2016 04:40 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 08:47 AM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 08:22 AM)ken d Wrote:  If you put the tourney in New York, it will be for reasons other than its convenience to some fans.

BINGO.

Interesting facts: Syracuse is 246 miles from New York City; Boston College is only 210 miles. Also, UVa is closer (341 miles) to NYC than is Pitt (368 mi).

Interesting. I had thought Syracuse was a bit closer than that. Much of their fan base is, drawing heavily from the north Jersey and Hudson River valley areas.

We have the second largest alumni base (38K) in NYC after Rutgers which is something out of this world like 230K or so. But then northern New Jersey makes up 1/3 of the NYC DMA.

Cheers,
Neil

(03-08-2016 10:51 PM)WNCOrange Wrote:  I won't be as kind. Greensboro is an absolute $hithole of a town. The only reason one goes there is because they are forced to on the interstate between eastern and western part of the state. Holding the tournament there is small time. I don't mind it staying in Carolina but if it does it absolutely has to be Charlotte. There are more traveling now than just the local fan bases and there absolutely need to be other things to do for visitors.

The ACCT will always have Greensboro in the rotation. Also Charlotte is only technically in NC so they don't count. Further there hasn't been a "Carolina" since the early 18th century.

The ACC made history when it created it's own post-season tournament in 1953 (53-54 season). I think it is time the ACC to make some more history.

2014 was the last time the ACC had 15 teams at the tourney. You can see the bracket here.

I propose the first round be played at the higher seeds campus.
15 Virginia Tech at 10 Miami
14 Boston College at 11 Georgia Tech
13 Notre Dame at 12 Wake Forest

The second round is also hosted by the highest seed.
1 Virginia (double bye) hosts 8 Maryland and 9 Florida State
2 Syracuse (double bye) hosts 7 NC State and 10 Miami (winner of 10v15 game above)
3 Duke (double bye) hosts 6 Clemson and 11 Georgia Tech (winner of 11v14 game above)
4 N Carolina (double bye) hosts 5 Pittsburgh and 12 Wake Forest (winner of 12v13 game above)

The winner of these 4 groups would move on to a neutral site. This would create a Final Four atmosphere for the ACCT. These games would definitely be in a marque city like New York.

There are some issues but nothing that can't be worked out.

(03-09-2016 09:02 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  The ACC made history when it created it's own post-season tournament in 1953 (53-54 season). I think it is time the ACC to make some more history.

2014 was the last time the ACC had 15 teams at the tourney. You can see the bracket here.

I propose the first round be played at the higher seeds campus.
15 Virginia Tech at 10 Miami
14 Boston College at 11 Georgia Tech
13 Notre Dame at 12 Wake Forest

The second round is also hosted by the highest seed.
1 Virginia (double bye) hosts 8 Maryland and 9 Florida State
2 Syracuse (double bye) hosts 7 NC State and 10 Miami (winner of 10v15 game above)
3 Duke (double bye) hosts 6 Clemson and 11 Georgia Tech (winner of 11v14 game above)
4 N Carolina (double bye) hosts 5 Pittsburgh and 12 Wake Forest (winner of 12v13 game above)

The winner of these 4 groups would move on to a neutral site. This would create a Final Four atmosphere for the ACCT. These games would definitely be in a marque city like New York.

There are some issues but nothing that can't be worked out.

You would need at least 1 travel day between games to make it work. The length of the tournament would be an issue.

There are two things in this debate that I don't understand:

1. The love for Charlotte over Greensboro. Does anyone who has actually been to both the Triad and Charlotte think this? Greensboro Coliseum is bigger -- it's the largest independent basketball venue on the East Coast, so more tickets per team. Charlotte isn't a bad town, but I don't see it as light years ahead of the Triad.

2. The idea that the Tournament would get more "exposure" in NYC. The Tournament is going to be on TV and would get the same media coverage whether it's held at Greensboro Coliseum, the Verizon Center, Madison Square Garden, or in a high school gym in New Mexico. The ACC invented the conference basketball tournament -- the media comes to us.

(03-09-2016 09:36 PM)Lenvillecards Wrote:  

(03-09-2016 09:02 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  The ACC made history when it created it's own post-season tournament in 1953 (53-54 season). I think it is time the ACC to make some more history.

2014 was the last time the ACC had 15 teams at the tourney. You can see the bracket here.

I propose the first round be played at the higher seeds campus.
15 Virginia Tech at 10 Miami
14 Boston College at 11 Georgia Tech
13 Notre Dame at 12 Wake Forest

The second round is also hosted by the highest seed.
1 Virginia (double bye) hosts 8 Maryland and 9 Florida State
2 Syracuse (double bye) hosts 7 NC State and 10 Miami (winner of 10v15 game above)
3 Duke (double bye) hosts 6 Clemson and 11 Georgia Tech (winner of 11v14 game above)
4 N Carolina (double bye) hosts 5 Pittsburgh and 12 Wake Forest (winner of 12v13 game above)

The winner of these 4 groups would move on to a neutral site. This would create a Final Four atmosphere for the ACCT. These games would definitely be in a marque city like New York.

There are some issues but nothing that can't be worked out.

You would need at least 1 travel day between games to make it work. The length of the tournament would be an issue.

I was thinking 2 days. Playing 5 games in 5 days is tiring enough. This would add travel to 3 different sites. You would have to squeeze the regular season somehow to get a few extra days.

What about Greenville sc? Just wondering opinions. They hosted one of the ncaa regions before so it could handle the ACC tourney.

(03-10-2016 03:47 AM)opossum Wrote:  There are two things in this debate that I don't understand:

1. The love for Charlotte over Greensboro. Does anyone who has actually been to both the Triad and Charlotte think this? Greensboro Coliseum is bigger -- it's the largest independent basketball venue on the East Coast, so more tickets per team. Charlotte isn't a bad town, but I don't see it as light years ahead of the Triad.

2. The idea that the Tournament would get more "exposure" in NYC. The Tournament is going to be on TV and would get the same media coverage whether it's held at Greensboro Coliseum, the Verizon Center, Madison Square Garden, or in a high school gym in New Mexico. The ACC invented the conference basketball tournament -- the media comes to us.

Sir, you are making WAY too much sense and logic for this otherwise senseless and illogical thread.

Go away.

(03-10-2016 03:47 AM)opossum Wrote:  There are two things in this debate that I don't understand:

1. The love for Charlotte over Greensboro. Does anyone who has actually been to both the Triad and Charlotte think this? Greensboro Coliseum is bigger -- it's the largest independent basketball venue on the East Coast, so more tickets per team. Charlotte isn't a bad town, but I don't see it as light years ahead of the Triad.

2. The idea that the Tournament would get more "exposure" in NYC. The Tournament is going to be on TV and would get the same media coverage whether it's held at Greensboro Coliseum, the Verizon Center, Madison Square Garden, or in a high school gym in New Mexico. The ACC invented the conference basketball tournament -- the media comes to us.

There is a LOT of local media in the NYC area that covers nothing but NYC events. Many of these media outlets could care less about covering an ACC tourney unless it were in NYC. Sure the majors like ESPN and CBS would cover it, but never underestimate the exposure you can get from being in the largest media center in the world, which just happens to be by far the largest city in the US. Local exposure in NYC is huge and trumps any kind of local exposure in any other city in the ACC footprint. Its not even close.

(03-10-2016 09:24 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 03:47 AM)opossum Wrote:  There are two things in this debate that I don't understand:

1. The love for Charlotte over Greensboro. Does anyone who has actually been to both the Triad and Charlotte think this? Greensboro Coliseum is bigger -- it's the largest independent basketball venue on the East Coast, so more tickets per team. Charlotte isn't a bad town, but I don't see it as light years ahead of the Triad.

2. The idea that the Tournament would get more "exposure" in NYC. The Tournament is going to be on TV and would get the same media coverage whether it's held at Greensboro Coliseum, the Verizon Center, Madison Square Garden, or in a high school gym in New Mexico. The ACC invented the conference basketball tournament -- the media comes to us.

There is a LOT of local media in the NYC area that covers nothing but NYC events. Many of these media outlets could care less about covering an ACC tourney unless it were in NYC. Sure the majors like ESPN and CBS would cover it, but never underestimate the exposure you can get from being in the largest media center in the world, which just happens to be by far the largest city in the US. Local exposure in NYC is huge and trumps any kind of local exposure in any other city in the ACC footprint. Its not even close.

Can you be more specific? What media outlets would cover the Tournament who do not currently cover it, and which people who currently aren't "exposed" to the Tournament and ACC basketball would thereby be "exposed?" If the people being "exposed" care about ACC basketball, how are they being prevented from viewing or traveling to attend Tournament games if they are held outside NYC? If the people being "exposed" don't care about ACC basketball, how does this "exposure" benefit people who do care about ACC basketball?

(03-10-2016 03:47 AM)opossum Wrote:  There are two things in this debate that I don't understand:

1. The love for Charlotte over Greensboro. Does anyone who has actually been to both the Triad and Charlotte think this? Greensboro Coliseum is bigger -- it's the largest independent basketball venue on the East Coast, so more tickets per team. Charlotte isn't a bad town, but I don't see it as light years ahead of the Triad.

2. The idea that the Tournament would get more "exposure" in NYC. The Tournament is going to be on TV and would get the same media coverage whether it's held at Greensboro Coliseum, the Verizon Center, Madison Square Garden, or in a high school gym in New Mexico. The ACC invented the conference basketball tournament -- the media comes to us.

1. There is absolutely nothing to do in Greensboro except go to the tournament.

And fewer tickets = more demand. More demand = higher ticket prices. Higher ticket prices = more revenue for a revenue deficient conference.

2. The very idea that the tournament wouldn't get more exposure in the media center of the world is simply stupid.

(03-10-2016 10:43 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 09:24 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 03:47 AM)opossum Wrote:  There are two things in this debate that I don't understand:

1. The love for Charlotte over Greensboro. Does anyone who has actually been to both the Triad and Charlotte think this? Greensboro Coliseum is bigger -- it's the largest independent basketball venue on the East Coast, so more tickets per team. Charlotte isn't a bad town, but I don't see it as light years ahead of the Triad.

2. The idea that the Tournament would get more "exposure" in NYC. The Tournament is going to be on TV and would get the same media coverage whether it's held at Greensboro Coliseum, the Verizon Center, Madison Square Garden, or in a high school gym in New Mexico. The ACC invented the conference basketball tournament -- the media comes to us.

There is a LOT of local media in the NYC area that covers nothing but NYC events. Many of these media outlets could care less about covering an ACC tourney unless it were in NYC. Sure the majors like ESPN and CBS would cover it, but never underestimate the exposure you can get from being in the largest media center in the world, which just happens to be by far the largest city in the US. Local exposure in NYC is huge and trumps any kind of local exposure in any other city in the ACC footprint. Its not even close.

Can you be more specific? What media outlets would cover the Tournament who do not currently cover it, and which people who currently aren't "exposed" to the Tournament and ACC basketball would thereby be "exposed?" If those people care about ACC basketball, how are they being prevented from viewing or traveling to attend Tournament games if they are held outside NYC? If they don't care about ACC basketball, how does this "exposure" benefit people who do care about ACC basketball?

REALLY? Just google the term media outlets in New York City. Then ask yourself how many of those outlets would send a reporter down to Greensboro to cover the Acc tourney, then how many would send a reporter cross boroughs or across the river to cover the tourney in NYC. When you talk about exposure, it means fans and non fans alike. Kids in NYC became fans of the BE because of the BE tourney and the hype surrounding it during tourney week. The BE tourney used to be lit up in lights and advertised in Times Square. Reporters would be talking to passersby about the tourney in Times Square. You cant buy this kind of exposure.

(03-10-2016 10:45 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 03:47 AM)opossum Wrote:  There are two things in this debate that I don't understand:

1. The love for Charlotte over Greensboro. Does anyone who has actually been to both the Triad and Charlotte think this? Greensboro Coliseum is bigger -- it's the largest independent basketball venue on the East Coast, so more tickets per team. Charlotte isn't a bad town, but I don't see it as light years ahead of the Triad.

2. The idea that the Tournament would get more "exposure" in NYC. The Tournament is going to be on TV and would get the same media coverage whether it's held at Greensboro Coliseum, the Verizon Center, Madison Square Garden, or in a high school gym in New Mexico. The ACC invented the conference basketball tournament -- the media comes to us.

1. There is absolutely nothing to do in Greensboro except go to the tournament.

And fewer tickets = more demand. More demand = higher ticket prices. Higher ticket prices = more revenue for a revenue deficient conference.

2. The very idea that the tournament wouldn't get more exposure in the media center of the world is simply stupid.

That's another thing I don't get. As a fan of an ACC team I would personally like lower ticket prices. We're dealing with nonprofit organizations that have to spend everything they make, and they will. Why do we care about conference revenue?

As for #2, I'm sorry if I sound stupid, but what does that "exposure" entail, and what does it get us?

(03-10-2016 11:05 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 10:43 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 09:24 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 03:47 AM)opossum Wrote:  There are two things in this debate that I don't understand:

1. The love for Charlotte over Greensboro. Does anyone who has actually been to both the Triad and Charlotte think this? Greensboro Coliseum is bigger -- it's the largest independent basketball venue on the East Coast, so more tickets per team. Charlotte isn't a bad town, but I don't see it as light years ahead of the Triad.

2. The idea that the Tournament would get more "exposure" in NYC. The Tournament is going to be on TV and would get the same media coverage whether it's held at Greensboro Coliseum, the Verizon Center, Madison Square Garden, or in a high school gym in New Mexico. The ACC invented the conference basketball tournament -- the media comes to us.

There is a LOT of local media in the NYC area that covers nothing but NYC events. Many of these media outlets could care less about covering an ACC tourney unless it were in NYC. Sure the majors like ESPN and CBS would cover it, but never underestimate the exposure you can get from being in the largest media center in the world, which just happens to be by far the largest city in the US. Local exposure in NYC is huge and trumps any kind of local exposure in any other city in the ACC footprint. Its not even close.

Can you be more specific? What media outlets would cover the Tournament who do not currently cover it, and which people who currently aren't "exposed" to the Tournament and ACC basketball would thereby be "exposed?" If those people care about ACC basketball, how are they being prevented from viewing or traveling to attend Tournament games if they are held outside NYC? If they don't care about ACC basketball, how does this "exposure" benefit people who do care about ACC basketball?

REALLY? Just google the term media outlets in New York City. Then ask yourself how many of those outlets would send a reporter down to Greensboro to cover the Acc tourney, then how many would send a reporter cross boroughs or across the river to cover the tourney in NYC. When you talk about exposure, it means fans and non fans alike. Kids in NYC became fans of the BE because of the BE tourney and the hype surrounding it during tourney week. The BE tourney used to be lit up in lights and advertised in Times Square. Reporters would be talking to passersby about the tourney in Times Square. You cant buy this kind of exposure.

So this "exposure" is about recruiting? I think the same media outlets based in New York City would cover the Tournament no matter where it was held. And any 12 or 13 year old kid who is good at basketball doesn't need to be "exposed to" the ACC. They will know about it already.

(03-10-2016 11:10 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 10:45 AM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 03:47 AM)opossum Wrote:  There are two things in this debate that I don't understand:

1. The love for Charlotte over Greensboro. Does anyone who has actually been to both the Triad and Charlotte think this? Greensboro Coliseum is bigger -- it's the largest independent basketball venue on the East Coast, so more tickets per team. Charlotte isn't a bad town, but I don't see it as light years ahead of the Triad.

2. The idea that the Tournament would get more "exposure" in NYC. The Tournament is going to be on TV and would get the same media coverage whether it's held at Greensboro Coliseum, the Verizon Center, Madison Square Garden, or in a high school gym in New Mexico. The ACC invented the conference basketball tournament -- the media comes to us.

1. There is absolutely nothing to do in Greensboro except go to the tournament.

And fewer tickets = more demand. More demand = higher ticket prices. Higher ticket prices = more revenue for a revenue deficient conference.

2. The very idea that the tournament wouldn't get more exposure in the media center of the world is simply stupid.

That's another thing I don't get. As a fan of an ACC team I would personally like lower ticket prices. We're dealing with nonprofit organizations that have to spend everything they make, and they will. Why do we care about conference revenue?

As for #2, I'm sorry if I sound stupid, but what does that "exposure" entail, and what does it get us?

Oh my God......are you serious about the revenue?

Let's see.....basketball tournament in NYC. ACC and ACC schools names splashed in advertising all over a city of over 8 million.

Basketball tournament in Greensboro. ACC gets a billboard at Exit 217 in a city of 279,000. Maybe if we are lucky we can get posters hung over the urinals of The Corner Bar on Spring Garden.

(03-10-2016 11:31 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 11:05 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 10:43 AM)opossum Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 09:24 AM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(03-10-2016 03:47 AM)opossum Wrote:  There are two things in this debate that I don't understand:

1. The love for Charlotte over Greensboro. Does anyone who has actually been to both the Triad and Charlotte think this? Greensboro Coliseum is bigger -- it's the largest independent basketball venue on the East Coast, so more tickets per team. Charlotte isn't a bad town, but I don't see it as light years ahead of the Triad.

2. The idea that the Tournament would get more "exposure" in NYC. The Tournament is going to be on TV and would get the same media coverage whether it's held at Greensboro Coliseum, the Verizon Center, Madison Square Garden, or in a high school gym in New Mexico. The ACC invented the conference basketball tournament -- the media comes to us.

There is a LOT of local media in the NYC area that covers nothing but NYC events. Many of these media outlets could care less about covering an ACC tourney unless it were in NYC. Sure the majors like ESPN and CBS would cover it, but never underestimate the exposure you can get from being in the largest media center in the world, which just happens to be by far the largest city in the US. Local exposure in NYC is huge and trumps any kind of local exposure in any other city in the ACC footprint. Its not even close.

Can you be more specific? What media outlets would cover the Tournament who do not currently cover it, and which people who currently aren't "exposed" to the Tournament and ACC basketball would thereby be "exposed?" If those people care about ACC basketball, how are they being prevented from viewing or traveling to attend Tournament games if they are held outside NYC? If they don't care about ACC basketball, how does this "exposure" benefit people who do care about ACC basketball?

REALLY? Just google the term media outlets in New York City. Then ask yourself how many of those outlets would send a reporter down to Greensboro to cover the Acc tourney, then how many would send a reporter cross boroughs or across the river to cover the tourney in NYC. When you talk about exposure, it means fans and non fans alike. Kids in NYC became fans of the BE because of the BE tourney and the hype surrounding it during tourney week. The BE tourney used to be lit up in lights and advertised in Times Square. Reporters would be talking to passersby about the tourney in Times Square. You cant buy this kind of exposure.

So this "exposure" is about recruiting? I think the same media outlets based in New York City would cover the Tournament no matter where it was held. And any 12 or 13 year old kid who is good at basketball doesn't need to be "exposed to" the ACC. They will know about it already.

Dude, I give up. Where did I say anything about recruiting? You also once said "that Greensboro Coliseum is just as Big time as MSG." If you cant understand the concept of Acc tourney exposure and how it would be enhanced in NYC I don't know what to tell you. You just cant be helped.

Add Houston, and rotate between Houston and NYC

Advantages of NYC over Greensboro:
1. Better exposure for NYC recruits (ACC already gets all of the best recruits from Greensboro!)
2. Could support higher ticket prices -- and best of all, it's NYC fans paying for them! (money flows FROM NYC TO Greensboro!)
3. More to do for fans of the 6 or 7 teams which lose in the first 2 days.
4. UNC fans hate it.

There isn't a comparison to a conference tournament in MSG, it's an event like no other. Media go there to be apart of the event, they can get a conference tournament anywhere. It's like the Oscars compared to a high school talent contest. Michael Jackson compared to Milli Vanilli.