(02-19-2016 09:18 AM)HoopsJunky Wrote:  Anybody know why Cobb was on bench in crunch time?

Kevin Johnson was 1-7 last night and took some ill advised bad shots.
Why play him a long stretch at the end of the regulation and some in OT?

Kevin Johnson played well vs. ECU and UCF but has struggled most of the year. He has a 34% FG and is shooting 30% from downtown.

UC was struggling to score at the end of regulation.
Cobb was "on" last night. 2-4 from 3s and 3-6 from the field.

Why sit him when you need a bucket?

It's the little things with Mick

They were trying to play offense for defense with their subs and got caught a few times. We even played 1 of the biggest possessions on offense with Clark on the bench because of it. I suspect they didn't want KJ on the floor on O, but also didn't want to call TO.

My disappointment exists on so many different levels :

A good chance we miss the tourney.
Really wanted Mick to succeed, 2nd in wins all time but doesn't feel successful to me ( tourney).
Recruiting.
Offense.
Don't think UC is considered Top 20 or 25 all time around the country anymore by the youngsters.
Recruiting.
Xavier has certainly surpassed UC and Mick doesn't seem to care.
Recruiting.
In game substitutions.
UC makes tourney 5 straight seasons, yet every thing seems to be sliding downhill with this program.
Just don't see this program getting to the mountaintop with Mick at the helm and that's sad to me.

(02-19-2016 09:33 AM)cpawstoney Wrote:  We only lost two seniors between last year and this year yet the team has dropped way off. How can out team get worse with essentially the same personnel? Shouldn't a year's experience and maturity resulted in a better team?

I hate to be this guy, but whatever.... it's mostly Ellis. Preseason all-AAC, honestly should be benched for Deberry most of the time. Gave up another huge putback last night. Missed the big layup. I don't mean to just beat up on him, it's partially a compliment. He was really good last year and that's one of the reasons we were good. The dropoff has been severe.

(02-19-2016 10:08 AM)mlb Wrote:  I don't think the overall talent is that bad. I think the ridiculously bad offense is the issue. I don't care about the whole "offensive efficiency" crap that people like to pull out... the ball does not move around smoothly. It bogs down and just looks like total crap. It isn't very hard to defend. It is just plain ugly, and I have gotten to the point that I don't enjoy watching UC play anymore. I'll always root for UC, it is my alma-mater, but I can't watch this completely unenjoyable crap that is shown ever game.

I agree. They actually started off the year playing more up tempo.

Caupain seems to have gone back to moseying up the court to allow the opponent's defense to get set.

Compare that with what Tulsa did last night. Their guards sped up the court and drove right into the lane on nearly every possession.

UC's guards go take their positions around the perimeter and wait for Caupain to finally get the ball across the court. Then often it looks like they throw each other passes with apparently no real purpose other than to pass the ball to each other until someone decides to heave up a 3 point attempt.

Maybe I am exaggerating a little - but Clark made some nice 10-12 foot shots in the first half and they went away from that. You rarely see a UC guard in the free throw area. It has been this way for years.

(02-19-2016 10:08 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 09:57 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Same here. Watching them play is pretty brutal. I have nothing personal against Mick, but the program is going nowhere fast. It all gets down to recruiting. It's been subpar for several years now. The skill level of these players is just plain bad.

I don't think the overall talent is that bad. I think the ridiculously bad offense is the issue. I don't care about the whole "offensive efficiency" crap that people like to pull out... the ball does not move around smoothly. It bogs down and just looks like total crap. It isn't very hard to defend. It is just plain ugly, and I have gotten to the point that I don't enjoy watching UC play anymore. I'll always root for UC, it is my alma-mater, but I can't watch this completely unenjoyable crap that is shown ever game.

I agree completely with you on all of that. They really are unwatchable. I can't remember the last time I actually was able to watch an entire game.

(02-19-2016 10:49 AM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 10:08 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 09:57 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Same here. Watching them play is pretty brutal. I have nothing personal against Mick, but the program is going nowhere fast. It all gets down to recruiting. It's been subpar for several years now. The skill level of these players is just plain bad.

When a team makes a three quarter shot and you miss a lay up and step in the foul lane at the end.....you are going to get beat. That was sooo hard to watch at the end.

I don't think the overall talent is that bad. I think the ridiculously bad offense is the issue. I don't care about the whole "offensive efficiency" crap that people like to pull out... the ball does not move around smoothly. It bogs down and just looks like total crap. It isn't very hard to defend. It is just plain ugly, and I have gotten to the point that I don't enjoy watching UC play anymore. I'll always root for UC, it is my alma-mater, but I can't watch this completely unenjoyable crap that is shown ever game.

I agree completely with you on all of that. They really are unwatchable. I can't remember the last time I actually was able to watch an entire game.

Even if this team squeaks into the tournament, does that really do it for you anymore? With Louisville and SMU not elegible this year, it is even easier to get in now. We all know this team would have a 0% chance against any team in the tournament seeded higher than 6. If they are on the bubble come selection Sunday, I don't plan to be sweating it out like I have in the past. It's all just kind of boring anymore.

I think it's talent more than style. Not saying I love the style but we don't have enough guys who can drive the basketball and put pressure on the defense. After Troy Clark is probably the second best dribble drive guy. That's a huge issue for this team.

I'm a Mick supporter and your first missed tournament since the program was rebuilt doesn't suddenly make you Josh Pastner but next year would need to show a drastic improvement to make up for this disappointment.

(02-19-2016 10:08 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 09:57 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Same here. Watching them play is pretty brutal. I have nothing personal against Mick, but the program is going nowhere fast. It all gets down to recruiting. It's been subpar for several years now. The skill level of these players is just plain bad.

I don't think the overall talent is that bad. I think the ridiculously bad offense is the issue. I don't care about the whole "offensive efficiency" crap that people like to pull out... the ball does not move around smoothly. It bogs down and just looks like total crap. It isn't very hard to defend. It is just plain ugly, and I have gotten to the point that I don't enjoy watching UC play anymore. I'll always root for UC, it is my alma-mater, but I can't watch this completely unenjoyable crap that is shown ever game.

+1. From the shot clock to the officiating, promoting offense for the fans is the trend.

One game UC will look decent on offense, then it's two steps back (usually when we go on the road).

In any event, it's tough to watch. I'd much rather go down attacking both ends.

(02-19-2016 11:15 AM)Topkat Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 10:08 AM)mlb Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 09:57 AM)Marcus Wrote:  Same here. Watching them play is pretty brutal. I have nothing personal against Mick, but the program is going nowhere fast. It all gets down to recruiting. It's been subpar for several years now. The skill level of these players is just plain bad.

I don't think the overall talent is that bad. I think the ridiculously bad offense is the issue. I don't care about the whole "offensive efficiency" crap that people like to pull out... the ball does not move around smoothly. It bogs down and just looks like total crap. It isn't very hard to defend. It is just plain ugly, and I have gotten to the point that I don't enjoy watching UC play anymore. I'll always root for UC, it is my alma-mater, but I can't watch this completely unenjoyable crap that is shown ever game.

+1. From the shot clock to the officiating, promoting offense for the fans is the trend.

One game UC will look decent on offense, then it's two steps back (usually when we go on the road).

In any event, it's tough to watch. I'd much rather go down attacking both ends.

We haven't had an offensive minded coach at UC - perhaps in my lifetime. Sure Mick coached under Pitino. But he's really a Huggins guy from the start. Huggins was a better recruiter than Mick, so got shooting talent and the occasionally All-American who would blow up from time to time - but the offensive style they coach is not fun to watch. Never has been. Huggins (and his assistants) also seemed better at developing raw talent (think of the transformation of Bobby Brannen). Mick doesn't do well at that. In some respects this is similar to the football coaches who insisted on sticking with the old way while all the new coaches moved on to the high tempo offenses that were hard to defend. Some coaches are able to adapt and start something new - some aren't...

(02-19-2016 10:04 AM)uccheese Wrote:  It makes no sense to say last year doesn't matter. Why wouldn't you look at what the committee usually does if we're trying to guess what they'll do?

The poster said 22-10 Bearcats from the AAC has no chance when our best win would be SMU. This exact same team in this exact same conference with that exact same record with the same best win just got in last year.

SDST at home was a slightly better win than @VCU I guess, but Tulane and @ECU make up for it.

I think 4-0 is in period.
I think 3-1 with 2 wins against UCONN/SMU is in without a total AACT flop
If we go 3-1 and 1 of the home games is the loss, we need to do work in AAC tourney and root for help
2-2 we better win the autobid.

Completely different environments and trying to argue differently is bonkers. The conference currently has no teams locked in the tournament, the best one being ineligible.

How exactly do Tulane and ECU wins make up for anything? They're both 200+ RPI teams and give you nothing. The only positive UC gets out of those games is that they didn't lose them.

Oh, and last year UC swept SMU (their RPI last year was better than their projected finish this year, btw) and beat SDSU. So yeah, they had a few big wins to hang their hat on. UC has a couple anchors weighing down their non-conference schedule this season too.

It's still way too early to see where the bubble is going to settle. If bubble teams go all Wisconsin on the Maryland's of the world, things get much tougher. If they do the opposite, the road gets much easier.

Beat UConn and the Cats are sitting on the right side of the bubble for the moment. All of the American's tournament candidates have more quality wins than every A-10 team but Dayton. Only St. Joe and Dayton have better resumes. I tend to believe the American is closer to three and four bids than people think.

If the committee is true to comparing actual resumes based on who teams beat the WCC, Mountain West, and Missouri Valley are all one bids leagues.

(02-19-2016 02:13 AM)stxrunner Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 01:49 AM)jarr Wrote:  I think UC would be in good position to get a number of good young HC. A few names I would throw out there would be...

1) Bryce Drew at Valpo. He may be tough to pull away from his AM though

2) Chris Beard at Ark LR

3) Dane Fife, assistant at MSU

4) Jeff Capel, Duke assistant

5) Brad Underwood, HC Stephen F Austin

6) Jerod Haase, UAB

This list is exactly why people suggesting we replace Cronin are out of their mind.

Agreed with this statement +1

(02-19-2016 12:03 PM)Coopdaddy67 Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 10:04 AM)uccheese Wrote:  It makes no sense to say last year doesn't matter. Why wouldn't you look at what the committee usually does if we're trying to guess what they'll do?

The poster said 22-10 Bearcats from the AAC has no chance when our best win would be SMU. This exact same team in this exact same conference with that exact same record with the same best win just got in last year.

SDST at home was a slightly better win than @VCU I guess, but Tulane and @ECU make up for it.

I think 4-0 is in period.
I think 3-1 with 2 wins against UCONN/SMU is in without a total AACT flop
If we go 3-1 and 1 of the home games is the loss, we need to do work in AAC tourney and root for help
2-2 we better win the autobid.

Completely different environments and trying to argue differently is bonkers. The conference currently has no teams locked in the tournament, the best one being ineligible.

How exactly do Tulane and ECU wins make up for anything? They're both 200+ RPI teams and give you nothing. The only positive UC gets out of those games is that they didn't lose them.

Oh, and last year UC swept SMU (their RPI last year was better than their projected finish this year, btw) and beat SDSU. So yeah, they had a few big wins to hang their hat on. UC has a couple anchors weighing down their non-conference schedule this season too.

It's still way too early to see where the bubble is going to settle. If bubble teams go all Wisconsin on the Maryland's of the world, things get much tougher. If they do the opposite, the road gets much easier.

I was talking about the Tulane/ECU losses last season and our lack of anything similar this year. I wasn't very clear though.

I don't think Cronin needs to be replaced. You don't replace someone that has been to 5 straight NCAA tournaments.

I hope that streak continues but it is questionable.

I still don't like the offense, but if UC wins I can live with it.

Maybe he just needs an offensive coordinator like a football team has.

(02-19-2016 01:42 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I don't think Cronin needs to be replaced. You don't replace someone that has been to 5 straight NCAA tournaments.

I hope that streak continues but it is questionable.

I still don't like the offense, but if UC wins I can live with it.

Maybe he just needs an offensive coordinator like a football team has.

There's alot more problems than just the offense.

For all the talk of Bearcat toughness this team is weak. Ellis and Deberry and Thomas are constantly throwing up bad shots and crazy jump hooks and mid air double clutch shots. How many times have you seen them dunk on someone. How many times have you seen them shoot thru someone. I don't recall Danny Fortson ever shooting a jump hook or a crazy double clutch shot. I don't expect these guys to be Fortson, but for cripes sake, Deberry is 6'9" 275 lbs. Use your weight and strength and just overpower the opponent. For all of Ellis' anger he never uses it in game action to dunk on someone.

Player development just isn't there. Tell me one player on this team who went for good to great. Tell me 5 players in Micks head coaching career at UC that went from good to great.

These comments from Mick scare me....."I feel bad for Octavius, he didn’t try to miss layups. I feel bad for Gary Clark on the free throw lane violation Jake (Jacob Evans) missed a wide-open three in the corner and I feel bad for him because he’s going to beat himself up over it.”

Coddling a guy for playing weak and not throwing down dunks isn't gonna make him play tougher. I don't think a coach needs to berate guys non-stop but coddling them isn't gonna do it.

I like Mick alot. I want him to succeed. But its been 10 years and its fairly obvious where his ceiling as a coach for UC is. If making the tourney as a 6-12 seed and an occasional sweet 16 is ok with you, then Mick is your guy. If you're longing for a final four or a championship then its hard to think Mick is the guy unless the something changes ... i.e. conference change.

(02-19-2016 02:09 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 01:42 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I don't think Cronin needs to be replaced. You don't replace someone that has been to 5 straight NCAA tournaments.

I hope that streak continues but it is questionable.

I still don't like the offense, but if UC wins I can live with it.

Maybe he just needs an offensive coordinator like a football team has.

I like Mick alot. I want him to succeed. But its been 10 years and its fairly obvious where his ceiling as a coach for UC is. If making the tourney as a 6-12 seed and an occasional sweet 16 is ok with you, then Mick is your guy. If you're longing for a final four or a championship then its hard to think Mick is the guy unless the something changes ... i.e. conference change.

+1. It's all about expectations. Some people have relatively low expectations for the basketball program. The sad thing is those expectations have seemed to decrease as the program has hit a wall and slowly begun to dwindle.

This basketball team hasn't changed all ******* season.

(02-19-2016 02:24 PM)Marcus Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 02:09 PM)nachoman91 Wrote:  

(02-19-2016 01:42 PM)bearcatfan Wrote:  I don't think Cronin needs to be replaced. You don't replace someone that has been to 5 straight NCAA tournaments.

I hope that streak continues but it is questionable.

I still don't like the offense, but if UC wins I can live with it.

Maybe he just needs an offensive coordinator like a football team has.

I like Mick alot. I want him to succeed. But its been 10 years and its fairly obvious where his ceiling as a coach for UC is. If making the tourney as a 6-12 seed and an occasional sweet 16 is ok with you, then Mick is your guy. If you're longing for a final four or a championship then its hard to think Mick is the guy unless the something changes ... i.e. conference change.

+1. It's all about expectations. Some people have relatively low expectations for the basketball program. The sad thing is those expectations have seemed to decrease as the program has hit a wall and slowly begun to dwindle.

Mick is signed through 2020-21. UC can't afford to fire him. They would need 10 plus million to get rid of him. UC can fire Tubs after next season as it will not cost as much.

When BB was going well with NCAA invites, y'all were glad that we didn't need to worry about Cronin leaving his alma mater. Now with a mediocre
year some want to find other HC options.
You are a fickle lot! Get over it!!!!!!!! 8 losses by a combined 31 points ,,including 1 loss by 10 and one by 7. (5 2pt losses).

Fire the coach when we aren't competitive, when we're blown out of multiple games,,