Does anyone feel we could have had an even better crowd with a true 2-5pm double header?

I say this all the time. We don't have a lot of crossover with our womens and mens crowds. If the men could dig into that womens crowd... there would have been 6k for the UB game. Getting those fans to enjoy mens basketball would be a plus plus for the University. Then again....seeing a loss might not have helped. Who else left after the womens game but did not attend the mens game?

MBB: 5,041, WBB: 4,709

Went to the women's game and it was great atmosphere. Had tix to men's game, but once we left we moved onto other stuff and I just caught the last 7 min of the men's game on TV. We have small kids, so even if the games were staggered better, we probably wouldn't have stayed for all of the second game. They would get restless and hungry. I don't go to many of the lady rocket games, but when we do I always say to myself "that was fun, we need to come more often."

IMO, there seems to be a whole different fan base for the women versus the men. I would have to agree that the Lady Rockets fanbase (Igniters, etc.) is more dedicated and get more charged up for the games. I thought that the BG game yesterday had more of a fun atmosphere, as opposed to the mens UB game...

Whenever they would have true double-headers, it would seem like the vast majority of the WBB fans would leave and not stay for the MBB game.

When they do have the double headers, they need some form of entertainment for that 30 minutes between games.

I'm guessing I missed it, but did they sell a special ticket " package" for this doubleheader? I like the suggestion of intentional between-games entertainment...maybe even include a pizza and some drinks so people/families could have made more of a day out of it? I only came for the men's game cause that's what I bought season tix for this time around, but if there had been a "package" I might well have come out for the whole thing.

(01-31-2016 11:32 AM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  I'm guessing I missed it, but did they sell a special ticket " package" for this doubleheader? I like the suggestion of intentional between-games entertainment...maybe even include a pizza and some drinks so people/families could have made more of a day out of it? I only came for the men's game cause that's what I bought season tix for this time around, but if there had been a "package" I might well have come out for the whole thing.

That's a great idea. Maybe bump the women back an hour to 3 so there's less gap between games (EMU ran them back to back which didn't allow for the OT).

Avg Attendance this year:

UT Men: 4392 (2nd in MAC, 111 Nationally)
UT Women: 4050 (1st in MAC, 24 Nationally)

(01-31-2016 11:40 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Avg Attendance this year:

UT Men: 4392 (2nd in MAC, 111 Nationally)
UT Women: 4050 (1st in MAC, 24 Nationally)

Women are third in the MAC overall, behind OU and UT men. Wonder how many teams can say they're third in their conference in overall attendance?

(01-31-2016 10:31 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  IMO, there seems to be a whole different fan base for the women versus the men. I would have to agree that the Lady Rockets fanbase (Igniters, etc.) is more dedicated and get more charged up for the games. I thought that the BG game yesterday had more of a fun atmosphere, as opposed to the mens UB game...

It has always seemed to be that way, even for the true double headers where one ticket gets you the women and men's games, which yesterday was NOT. Two almost entirely different populations with maybe a 20% overlap. Too bad those two populations couldn't merge because if they did, Savage would be a sell out for almost every game.

(01-31-2016 11:46 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 11:40 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Avg Attendance this year:

UT Men: 4392 (2nd in MAC, 111 Nationally)
UT Women: 4050 (1st in MAC, 24 Nationally)

Women are third in the MAC overall, behind OU and UT men. Wonder how many teams can say they're third in their conference in overall attendance?

1) so why would any talented women's bball player choose any other MAC program over ours? Why choose to play in front of 450 fans when you can play in front of 4,500?

2) and these numbers are for 2 programs that are arguably middle-of-the-MAC at best this season. Can you imagine what might occur if we ever have a season where not one or the other but BOTH programs are SERIOUS contenders for a MAC title and NCAA bid? With some excitement in the community, mutual vocal support from both K and Cullop, and just a little crossover from these distinct fan bases and we could have averaged for both programs in excess of 5500 a game, with eelpouts for both games of doubleheader switch the right marketing. Hope I live to see it!

And how the women stack up in attendance against some ranked teams and others. Amazing how many schools don't support the women, even when they are performing so well.

24 Toledo
25 #6 Texas
26 #22 Missouri
34 #16 Stanford
36 #11 Florida St
47 #20 South Florida
49 #24 West Virginia
50 #23 DePaul
56 #8 Arizona St
60 #15 UCLA
76 BGSU
80 #25 Washington
130 #17 Miami
269 Miami OH (last in MAC)

(01-31-2016 12:04 PM)T-Town Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 10:31 AM)FMRocket Wrote:  IMO, there seems to be a whole different fan base for the women versus the men. I would have to agree that the Lady Rockets fanbase (Igniters, etc.) is more dedicated and get more charged up for the games. I thought that the BG game yesterday had more of a fun atmosphere, as opposed to the mens UB game...

It has always seemed to be that way, even for the true double headers where one ticket gets you the women and men's games, which yesterday was NOT. Two almost entirely different populations with maybe a 20% overlap. Too bad those two populations couldn't merge because if they did, Savage would be a sell out for almost every game.

EXACTLY my sentiments !!!

(01-31-2016 12:05 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  1) so why would any talented women's bball player choose any other MAC program over ours? Why choose to play in front of 450 fans when you can play in front of 4,500?

There is no doubt that the UT fan support is a big factor in recruiting and should give UT a big edge over other MAC schools; however, remember no player is going to commit to Toledo unless they are offered a scholarship. I think that the problem may lie more identifying and targeting promising recruits early on rather than with selling them on the program once they are identified.

There was an article (BCSN?) linked from this board a year or so ago that indicated that Toledo was recruiting Cha Sweeney from Rogers during her junior year in HS but after signing Cat Wells and Michele Hayes in the class ahead of Sweeney they backed off Sweeney. We all know how that turned out. Wells got kicked out before ever seeing the floor and Hayes may have seen 10 minutes total career floor time before transferring out of the program while Sweeney went on to be MAC FOY and an all-MAC type player ever since.

I also thought the WNIT Championship would make recruiting easier but except for Inma I thought recruiting actually took a step backwards for a couple of years after the WNIT championship win.

I am not trying to imply that there is not talent on this team because there is, but what I am saying is that Naama Shafir has been Cullop's only recruit to date who has that MAC POY potential and having a player like that is usually necessary to win championships.

(01-31-2016 11:46 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 11:40 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Avg Attendance this year:

UT Men: 4392 (2nd in MAC, 111 Nationally)
UT Women: 4050 (1st in MAC, 24 Nationally)

Women are third in the MAC overall, behind OU and UT men. Wonder how many teams can say they're third in their conference in overall attendance?

All the more reason why Coach Cullop must recruit better against everyone else in the MAC in order to keep the excellent attendance going. I wish they could become the UCONN women's of the MAC

Stating this only as a fan, with no inside info about the UT recruiting process, but it seems clear that Cullop recruits players who fit her team first and foremost, hopefully getting the most talent to go along with that. "Fit" I believe means, among other things being willing to play defense, being a very good student, showing character on and off the court and meshing with the personality of the rest of the team. It has been reported in the past that after recruits take there official visits to UT, coach asks the current team whether they feel the new player will mesh well with the rest of the team or not. It wouldn't surprise me if the Wells and Nunn cases may have reinforced the notion of fit being as, if not more important than talent.

There are one or two MAC coaches who do not seem place much value on playing defense at all. That's gonna appeal to many players. And there are a couple who don't seem to be all that concerned with poor off/on-the-court behavior too. So, there are gonna be a number of talented recruits that probably wouldn't even consider Toledo over some of those teams because of those differences, and maybe some that would like to play here, but might not be recruited because they may not fit.

(01-31-2016 01:10 PM)Springboromark Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 11:46 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 11:40 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Avg Attendance this year:

UT Men: 4392 (2nd in MAC, 111 Nationally)
UT Women: 4050 (1st in MAC, 24 Nationally)

Women are third in the MAC overall, behind OU and UT men. Wonder how many teams can say they're third in their conference in overall attendance?

All the more reason why Coach Cullop must recruit better against everyone else in the MAC in order to keep the excellent attendance going. I wish they could become the UCONN women's of the MAC

Same, at least Dayton or any other mid-major in Ohio-Mich-Indiana but what is in the way?

Certainly not fan support, so either coach isn't trying for those higher recruits or the university isn't able to attract them. Argument could be made for the latter but when I see some of the schools chosen by "better" recruits I'm persuaded your way, Coach isn't aiming high enough (no slap intended towards those that are recruited and come here).

(01-31-2016 02:46 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 01:10 PM)Springboromark Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 11:46 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 11:40 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Avg Attendance this year:

UT Men: 4392 (2nd in MAC, 111 Nationally)
UT Women: 4050 (1st in MAC, 24 Nationally)

Women are third in the MAC overall, behind OU and UT men. Wonder how many teams can say they're third in their conference in overall attendance?

All the more reason why Coach Cullop must recruit better against everyone else in the MAC in order to keep the excellent attendance going. I wish they could become the UCONN women's of the MAC

Same, at least Dayton or any other mid-major in Ohio-Mich-Indiana but what is in the way?

Certainly not fan support, so either coach isn't trying for those higher recruits or the university isn't able to attract them. Argument could be made for the latter but when I see some of the schools chosen by "better" recruits I'm persuaded your way, Coach isn't aiming high enough (no slap intended towards those that are recruited and come here).

Kendall Nunn was touted as the highest rated recruit in the history of the MAC. Cat Wells was supposed to be awesome. Kayla McIntyre was state player of the year. Pretty high sights that haven't paid many dividends. McIntyre, I'm convinced, will, but recruiting isn't a science.

(01-31-2016 06:23 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 02:46 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 01:10 PM)Springboromark Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 11:46 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 11:40 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Avg Attendance this year:

UT Men: 4392 (2nd in MAC, 111 Nationally)
UT Women: 4050 (1st in MAC, 24 Nationally)

Women are third in the MAC overall, behind OU and UT men. Wonder how many teams can say they're third in their conference in overall attendance?

All the more reason why Coach Cullop must recruit better against everyone else in the MAC in order to keep the excellent attendance going. I wish they could become the UCONN women's of the MAC

Same, at least Dayton or any other mid-major in Ohio-Mich-Indiana but what is in the way?

Certainly not fan support, so either coach isn't trying for those higher recruits or the university isn't able to attract them. Argument could be made for the latter but when I see some of the schools chosen by "better" recruits I'm persuaded your way, Coach isn't aiming high enough (no slap intended towards those that are recruited and come here).

Kendall Nunn was touted as the highest rated recruit in the history of the MAC. Cat Wells was supposed to be awesome. Kayla McIntyre was state player of the year. Pretty high sights that haven't paid many dividends. McIntyre, I'm convinced, will, but recruiting isn't a science.

While I appreciate that, I compared to Dayton and there's not even a remote comparison in overall recruiting classes or the programs they are coming from versus where ours are coming from. Nearly their entire domestic roster plays a schedule against the best the state has to offer with other games against similar talent in surrounding states.

Another possible difference in their recruiting plan, I notice their foreign players are recruited for height and have experience in US or Canadian high school and prep programs. We just had that article about the difficult adjustment to the speed of our game and that coming from players that played on European National teams. Perhaps that year in a US prep school is a difference maker?

Again, I'm happy. Nothing against who we have playing for the university, they seem quality people that have represented well. I'm responding to those that are asking how does the program get to that NCAA level. With one top talent recruit a year from a program that plays state and regional level talent? Probably not.

(01-31-2016 06:43 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 06:23 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 02:46 PM)eastisbest Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 01:10 PM)Springboromark Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 11:46 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Women are third in the MAC overall, behind OU and UT men. Wonder how many teams can say they're third in their conference in overall attendance?

All the more reason why Coach Cullop must recruit better against everyone else in the MAC in order to keep the excellent attendance going. I wish they could become the UCONN women's of the MAC

Same, at least Dayton or any other mid-major in Ohio-Mich-Indiana but what is in the way?

Certainly not fan support, so either coach isn't trying for those higher recruits or the university isn't able to attract them. Argument could be made for the latter but when I see some of the schools chosen by "better" recruits I'm persuaded your way, Coach isn't aiming high enough (no slap intended towards those that are recruited and come here).

Kendall Nunn was touted as the highest rated recruit in the history of the MAC. Cat Wells was supposed to be awesome. Kayla McIntyre was state player of the year. Pretty high sights that haven't paid many dividends. McIntyre, I'm convinced, will, but recruiting isn't a science.

While I appreciate that, I compared to Dayton and there's not even a remote comparison in overall recruiting classes or the programs they are coming from versus where ours are coming from. Nearly their entire domestic roster plays a schedule against the best the state has to offer with other games against similar talent in surrounding states.

Another possible difference in their recruiting plan, I notice their foreign players are recruited for height and have experience in US or Canadian high school and prep programs. We just had that article about the difficult adjustment to the speed of our game and that coming from players that played on European National teams. Perhaps that year in a US prep school is a difference maker?

Again, I'm happy. Nothing against who we have playing for the university, they seem quality people that have represented well. I'm responding to those that are asking how does the program get to that NCAA level. With one top talent recruit a year from a program that plays state and regional level talent? Probably not.

Nunn and Wells, the highest ranked MAC recruit ever from a Chicago powerhouse and a first team all-state Ohio player from a major HS power, were both recruits in the "lost class" of 2012, IIRC. Can't recall the backgrounds of others Like Hayes and I know we're only talking one year, but holding on to talent is equally important. That year really seemed to set the program back.

(01-31-2016 12:05 PM)bcunn3128 Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 11:46 AM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  

(01-31-2016 11:40 AM)northcoastRocket Wrote:  Avg Attendance this year:

UT Men: 4392 (2nd in MAC, 111 Nationally)
UT Women: 4050 (1st in MAC, 24 Nationally)

Women are third in the MAC overall, behind OU and UT men. Wonder how many teams can say they're third in their conference in overall attendance?

1) so why would any talented women's bball player choose any other MAC program over ours? Why choose to play in front of 450 fans when you can play in front of 4,500?

2) and these numbers are for 2 programs that are arguably middle-of-the-MAC at best this season. Can you imagine what might occur if we ever have a season where not one or the other but BOTH programs are SERIOUS contenders for a MAC title and NCAA bid? With some excitement in the community, mutual vocal support from both K and Cullop, and just a little crossover from these distinct fan bases and we could have averaged for both programs in excess of 5500 a game, with eelpouts for both games of doubleheader switch the right marketing. Hope I live to see it!

In Cullop's early years here she was recruiting a Canadian girl (don't remember who it was) and she was on her official visit. After Toledo got done winning a home game she had attended, she when up to Coach and said, "I don't think I can play here (at Toledo)." Coach asked her why. The recruit replied, "I've never played in front of over 100 people. I can't play in front of 3,000 - 4,000 people like you have."

The crowds can be intimidating to recruits too........