Forget the trolls and other like posters. The major issues that UC fans have to deal are the following.

1. Conference realignment, most posters seem to be frustrated with UC's status in the overall landscape of college sports. Moving from C-USA to the Big East only to fall back again is a huge let down. Watching Louisville and Xavier move up sits uneasy with most Bearcat fans. Only way this issue will go away is if UC is invited to a power five conference or another shift in college athletics changes the entire paradigm and Cincinnati ends up in a place that allows access to major bowls/playoffs while receiving solid financial compensation.

2. Football, the downward trend from the Brian Kelly years to Tuberville is a legitimate gripe. UC has gone for a top 25 team in a BCS conference to a solid program outside the power structure. The way the team loses games under Tuberville is troubling and has been a cause for concern since the Illinois game in 2013. Watching WVU, Pitt, Louisville, Syracuse, and Rutgers earn golden tickets while UC outperformed them has been difficult.

3. Basketball, there is probably still some on this board that resent the way Huggins termination went and still hold that against the basketball program. Others diehard fans were lost during early years of Cronin's tenure. Overall Mick has done a very good at getting UC back to a top 50 level team that will make the tournament most years but his failure to take the program to the next level is an issue. Watching Xavier, Louisville, Kentucky, Ohio State, and Dayton thrive most seasons makes it more difficult to be a UC fan. During Huggins' best seasons UC was usually better than Louisville, Dayton, Ohio State, and Xavier most seasons. Now the Cats are lucky to better than one or two of schools each year.

(01-09-2016 06:06 PM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Forget the trolls and other like posters. The major issues that UC fans have to deal are the following.

1. Conference realignment, most posters seem to be frustrated with UC's status in the overall landscape of college sports. Moving from C-USA to the Big East only to fall back again is a huge let down. Watching Louisville and Xavier move up sits uneasy with most Bearcat fans. Only way this issue will go away is if UC is invited to a power five conference or another shift in college athletics changes the entire paradigm and Cincinnati ends up in a place that allows access to major bowls/playoffs while receiving solid financial compensation.

2. Football, the downward trend from the Brian Kelly years to Tuberville is a legitimate gripe. UC has gone for a top 25 team in a BCS conference to a solid program outside the power structure. The way the team loses games under Tuberville is troubling and has been a cause for concern since the Illinois game in 2013. Watching WVU, Pitt, Louisville, Syracuse, and Rutgers earn golden tickets while UC outperformed them has been difficult.

3. Basketball, there is probably still some on this board that resent the way Huggins termination went and still hold that against the basketball program. Others diehard fans were lost during early years of Cronin's tenure. Overall Mick has done a very good at getting UC back to a top 50 level team that will make the tournament most years but his failure to take the program to the next level is an issue. Watching Xavier, Louisville, Kentucky, Ohio State, and Dayton thrive most seasons makes it more difficult to be a UC fan. During Huggins' best seasons UC was usually better than Louisville, Dayton, Ohio State, and Xavier most seasons. Now the Cats are lucky to better than one or two of schools each year.

Nailed it!

I resent the hell out of the fact that Syracuse and Rutgers are rubbing shoulders with Florida State and Ohio State while we are stuck playing Tulsa and Tulane again. The university, the athletic programs and the fans worked too hard to be slapped with th mid-major" label.

As for XU, it is total bull**** that their TV contract is double ours-- without a football team! They can't even pre-empt UC locally on the radio and on a national level most people could not even tell you where the school is located.

I like Mick but it's not clear that he's a great coach. Great coaches makes Final Fours. Can Mick? It's been a decade now, if it's going to happen it should be in the next 5 years.

Pragmatism is a better way to describe the tone of this board- usually. I consider myself an optimist.

Hit the bricks. tO$U is to the north.

Negative? I'm positive Tubby is a terrible fit!

If you're looking for optimism here read the threads about alcohol, otherwise don't bother.

The hat trick of Cincinnati ineptitude (CFB, CBB, NFL) is now complete!

Or do I get all fancy, and use the word TRINITY of ineptitude?

(01-10-2016 12:57 AM)Brian_Johnson Wrote:  The hat trick of Cincinnati ineptitude (CFB, CBB, NFL) is now complete!

Or do I get all fancy, and use the word TRINITY of ineptitude?

Triumvirate

(01-09-2016 12:23 PM)TubaCat Wrote:  For a top 25 salary (and our tradition), I expect top 25 talent and top 25 rankings most or all of the time. We are not nearly getting that. I'm not a Mick hater that wants him fired, I'm just being objective. I appreciate what he did over his first 5 years here, but I am still dissatisfied with his performance. I think that's reasonable.

Isn't it also reasonable to expect a top 25 budget given this great tradition? This program is currently spending less money than TCU on basketball. Their 5-year recruiting budget average from 2009-2013 was less than UMass and Nevada. Mick's overall results have not been great, and this year has been a huge disappointment thus far, but he's not exactly competing on a level playing field with the other multi-championship programs. Until this changes I think it's unfair to expect those type of results from any coach of this program.

For the life of me I cannot understand why ppl come down harder on Tubbs than MC.

Perhaps it's a matter of perspective, but as a 2000 grad of UC i was in Clifton when we stormed the field when we beat Ron Dayne's Wisky badgers. We sucked that year. Just like every other year. It was fine b/c UC is...and has ALWAYS been a basketball school and tho i'm no Huggs fan, we were flying high during the late 90s so all was right with the world.

That said, what we currently have is a hoops coach who's middle of the pack, and doing nothing at all to advance a program that is far more prestigious in its respective sport. All that can be said about MC is that like 6 years ago he got us back on track. Honestly...IMO...as nice as that was, idk that there aren't other coaches who couldn't bring respectability back to a historically top 15 athletic program. I mean, it's not like the program spent the better part of 100 years being invisible.

All of which brings me to our football program and Tubbs. Yes, this year was a downer, but to be honest the program's most significant win EVER is.....? Even BK failed to get us a post season W of any import. All I'm saying is that relatively speaking the football program is playing with 'new money' and faces obstacles that are far more significant than our hoops program. I personally love CFB way more than college basketball so I WANT more, however the cards are significantly more stacked against us in this sport than the other. Conference affiliation matters doubly so...hell you can at least get equal access in college hoops' post season. Recruiting. Etc.

IMO Mick is playing with a better hand and doing very little with it. As noted in this thread he's getting paid like a top 25 coach but his performance does little to merit it. Somehow ppl are more forgiving of a guy who's demonstrated year after year that he can't get the program over the hump. He's tapped out, but just good enuf that ppl are duped year after year...thinking the next year is the year. How can a coach who's been around for about a DECADE still be getting the benefit of the doubt?!?

I want and expect more from Tubbs' program but how in the world are we bashing his tenure...which is a third of the length of MC....5x as much?!?




mc

In football, my opinion is that we have a coach here that is willing to stay here long term. He does not have the energy/enthusasm of some younger coaches that we've had in the past. Our fans need to decide what they want. Do we want a young and energetic guy who will use this as a stepping stone to the next big job, or will we take someone who is willing to make this his home, but maybe lacks the qualities of the young and energetic guys. For years we asked for someone who would stay long term. Now that we have someone like that, our fans are clamoring for the young and energetic coach.

(01-10-2016 07:48 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  In football, my opinion is that we have a coach here that is willing to stay here long term. He does not have the energy/enthusasm of some younger coaches that we've had in the past. Our fans need to decide what they want. Do we want a young and energetic guy who will use this as a stepping stone to the next big job, or will we take someone who is willing to make this his home, but maybe lacks the qualities of the young and energetic guys. For years we asked for someone who would stay long term. Now that we have someone like that, our fans are clamoring for the young and energetic coach.

We were clamoring for a guy that would stay AND winhere. I'll take 3 and out if that means we actually won something while the coach was here. It's not hard to keep a coach when you pay him more than his peers and he runs the program into the ground. That 'stability' doesn't benefit anyone. It's certainly not benefiting us on the field or on the recrruiting trail now.

(01-10-2016 07:59 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 07:48 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  In football, my opinion is that we have a coach here that is willing to stay here long term. He does not have the energy/enthusasm of some younger coaches that we've had in the past. Our fans need to decide what they want. Do we want a young and energetic guy who will use this as a stepping stone to the next big job, or will we take someone who is willing to make this his home, but maybe lacks the qualities of the young and energetic guys. For years we asked for someone who would stay long term. Now that we have someone like that, our fans are clamoring for the young and energetic coach.

We were clamoring for a guy that would stay AND winhere. I'll take 3 and out if that means we actually won something while the coach was here. It's not hard to keep a coach when you pay him more than his peers and he runs the program into the ground. That 'stability' doesn't benefit anyone. It's certainly not benefiting us on the field or on the recrruiting trail now.

But the last two coaches to do this left the cupboard bare and we suffered because they weren't recruiting for the future.

Very true words!!!

(01-10-2016 09:12 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 07:59 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 07:48 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  In football, my opinion is that we have a coach here that is willing to stay here long term. He does not have the energy/enthusasm of some younger coaches that we've had in the past. Our fans need to decide what they want. Do we want a young and energetic guy who will use this as a stepping stone to the next big job, or will we take someone who is willing to make this his home, but maybe lacks the qualities of the young and energetic guys. For years we asked for someone who would stay long term. Now that we have someone like that, our fans are clamoring for the young and energetic coach.

We were clamoring for a guy that would stay AND winhere. I'll take 3 and out if that means we actually won something while the coach was here. It's not hard to keep a coach when you pay him more than his peers and he runs the program into the ground. That 'stability' doesn't benefit anyone. It's certainly not benefiting us on the field or on the recrruiting trail now.

But the last two coaches to do this left the cupboard bare and we suffered because they weren't recruiting for the future.

(01-10-2016 09:12 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 07:59 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 07:48 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  In football, my opinion is that we have a coach here that is willing to stay here long term. He does not have the energy/enthusasm of some younger coaches that we've had in the past. Our fans need to decide what they want. Do we want a young and energetic guy who will use this as a stepping stone to the next big job, or will we take someone who is willing to make this his home, but maybe lacks the qualities of the young and energetic guys. For years we asked for someone who would stay long term. Now that we have someone like that, our fans are clamoring for the young and energetic coach.

We were clamoring for a guy that would stay AND winhere. I'll take 3 and out if that means we actually won something while the coach was here. It's not hard to keep a coach when you pay him more than his peers and he runs the program into the ground. That 'stability' doesn't benefit anyone. It's certainly not benefiting us on the field or on the recrruiting trail now.

But the last two coaches to do this left the cupboard bare and we suffered because they weren't recruiting for the future.

I do not think that Butch Jones left the cupboard bare. He left Brendon Kay, Tion Green and others, a full staple of receivers, and an experienced offensive line. On defense, all thee linebackers were here because of Jones, along with Witty, and several other defensive backs that slip my mind. We did have issues on the defensive line. The case against Kelly is more compelling although I never thought we would have that steep of a dropoff. You had Collaros, Pead, and Binns. They had a solid offensive line and enough defense to be competitive.

(01-10-2016 07:27 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  For the life of me I cannot understand why ppl come down harder on Tubbs than MC.

Perhaps it's a matter of perspective, but as a 2000 grad of UC i was in Clifton when we stormed the field when we beat Ron Dayne's Wisky badgers. We sucked that year. Just like every other year. It was fine b/c UC is...and has ALWAYS been a basketball school and tho i'm no Huggs fan, we were flying high during the late 90s so all was right with the world.

That said, what we currently have is a hoops coach who's middle of the pack, and doing nothing at all to advance a program that is far more prestigious in its respective sport. All that can be said about MC is that like 6 years ago he got us back on track. Honestly...IMO...as nice as that was, idk that there aren't other coaches who couldn't bring respectability back to a historically top 15 athletic program. I mean, it's not like the program spent the better part of 100 years being invisible.

All of which brings me to our football program and Tubbs. Yes, this year was a downer, but to be honest the program's most significant win EVER is.....? Even BK failed to get us a post season W of any import. All I'm saying is that relatively speaking the football program is playing with 'new money' and faces obstacles that are far more significant than our hoops program. I personally love CFB way more than college basketball so I WANT more, however the cards are significantly more stacked against us in this sport than the other. Conference affiliation matters doubly so...hell you can at least get equal access in college hoops' post season. Recruiting. Etc.

IMO Mick is playing with a better hand and doing very little with it. As noted in this thread he's getting paid like a top 25 coach but his performance does little to merit it. Somehow ppl are more forgiving of a guy who's demonstrated year after year that he can't get the program over the hump. He's tapped out, but just good enuf that ppl are duped year after year...thinking the next year is the year. How can a coach who's been around for about a DECADE still be getting the benefit of the doubt?!?

I want and expect more from Tubbs' program but how in the world are we bashing his tenure...which is a third of the length of MC....5x as much?!?




mc

The perception is that Cronin cares about winning. He wants to reestablish the culture built by the players and coaches that came before him. We can argue that he hasn't advanced the program but in all honestly the program is close to where Huggins left it. Moving from the Big East to the American has been a difficult blow. That being said college basketball is judged by the post season so its still way to early to judge this season. The bad news is that 4 NCAA wins in 10 years, 1 conference championship and a 3-7 record against Xavier is not good enough. He does get a pass for the first four years due to the nature of the rebuild.

Tuberville's overall record isn't the issue. It is the way the team losses game and the overall attitude about the program. The perception on this board is that he doesn't care about elevating the program or raising the team's national profile. A lot like Mark Dantonio who once game a speech at basketball game that equated Ohio State's goal of beating Michigan with Cincinnati goal of beating Miami, Tuberville gives off the impression that UC is not a big time football that should be competing for championships.

When Mick fails, I believe he is deeply hurt and angry about losing games. He might be part of the problem in terms of game strategy or personal but he usually takes the blame. Deep down he has to be frustrated that his conference situation when down the toilet and that the basketball arena project took so long to get off the ground.

(01-10-2016 09:12 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 07:59 AM)Racinejake Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 07:48 AM)Edgebrookjeff Wrote:  In football, my opinion is that we have a coach here that is willing to stay here long term. He does not have the energy/enthusasm of some younger coaches that we've had in the past. Our fans need to decide what they want. Do we want a young and energetic guy who will use this as a stepping stone to the next big job, or will we take someone who is willing to make this his home, but maybe lacks the qualities of the young and energetic guys. For years we asked for someone who would stay long term. Now that we have someone like that, our fans are clamoring for the young and energetic coach.

We were clamoring for a guy that would stay AND winhere. I'll take 3 and out if that means we actually won something while the coach was here. It's not hard to keep a coach when you pay him more than his peers and he runs the program into the ground. That 'stability' doesn't benefit anyone. It's certainly not benefiting us on the field or on the recrruiting trail now.

But the last two coaches to do this left the cupboard bare and we suffered because they weren't recruiting for the future.

The last two coaches were also successful here. Won bowl games, had the team ranked in the top 25, etc. The latest one has the team headed toward the toilet in year 3, getting embarrassed by G5 programs and now recruiting in the bottom half of our conference we're so desperately trying to get out of. We're not better off.

Why is this board so negative?

For double digit years, more ups and downs than a roller coaster. Years of this cr*p would make any fan base negative.

We have not sustained our football successes. Success, then start over. Success, then start over.

No real money for athletics. The Uni has to beg, borrow and steal just to have enough for makeovers of existing facilities.

This basketball year, we are facing a less than expected season; and next year, we are facing yet another rebuilding year.

Now we are G-whatever. We can't seem to P. We can only speculate and wish we were in a P conference.

Our crosstown rival is in single digits, we have no digits.

Yet, we still love our teams.

Go Bearcats||
My banana won't move.

(01-10-2016 10:26 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  

(01-10-2016 07:27 AM)marcuscan Wrote:  For the life of me I cannot understand why ppl come down harder on Tubbs than MC.

Perhaps it's a matter of perspective, but as a 2000 grad of UC i was in Clifton when we stormed the field when we beat Ron Dayne's Wisky badgers. We sucked that year. Just like every other year. It was fine b/c UC is...and has ALWAYS been a basketball school and tho i'm no Huggs fan, we were flying high during the late 90s so all was right with the world.

That said, what we currently have is a hoops coach who's middle of the pack, and doing nothing at all to advance a program that is far more prestigious in its respective sport. All that can be said about MC is that like 6 years ago he got us back on track. Honestly...IMO...as nice as that was, idk that there aren't other coaches who couldn't bring respectability back to a historically top 15 athletic program. I mean, it's not like the program spent the better part of 100 years being invisible.

All of which brings me to our football program and Tubbs. Yes, this year was a downer, but to be honest the program's most significant win EVER is.....? Even BK failed to get us a post season W of any import. All I'm saying is that relatively speaking the football program is playing with 'new money' and faces obstacles that are far more significant than our hoops program. I personally love CFB way more than college basketball so I WANT more, however the cards are significantly more stacked against us in this sport than the other. Conference affiliation matters doubly so...hell you can at least get equal access in college hoops' post season. Recruiting. Etc.

IMO Mick is playing with a better hand and doing very little with it. As noted in this thread he's getting paid like a top 25 coach but his performance does little to merit it. Somehow ppl are more forgiving of a guy who's demonstrated year after year that he can't get the program over the hump. He's tapped out, but just good enuf that ppl are duped year after year...thinking the next year is the year. How can a coach who's been around for about a DECADE still be getting the benefit of the doubt?!?

I want and expect more from Tubbs' program but how in the world are we bashing his tenure...which is a third of the length of MC....5x as much?!?




mc

The perception is that Cronin cares about winning. He wants to reestablish the culture built by the players and coaches that came before him. We can argue that he hasn't advanced the program but in all honestly the program is close to where Huggins left it. Moving from the Big East to the American has been a difficult blow. That being said college basketball is judged by the post season so its still way to early to judge this season. The bad news is that 4 NCAA wins in 10 years, 1 conference championship and a 3-7 record against Xavier is not good enough. He does get a pass for the first four years due to the nature of the rebuild.

Tuberville's overall record isn't the issue. It is the way the team losses game and the overall attitude about the program. The perception on this board is that he doesn't care about elevating the program or raising the team's national profile. A lot like Mark Dantonio who once game a speech at basketball game that equated Ohio State's goal of beating Michigan with Cincinnati goal of beating Miami, Tuberville gives off the impression that UC is not a big time football that should be competing for championships.

When Mick fails, I believe he is deeply hurt and angry about losing games. He might be part of the problem in terms of game strategy or personal but he usually takes the blame. Deep down he has to be frustrated that his conference situation when down the toilet and that the basketball arena project took so long to get off the ground.

I think Mick has problems getting his type of players because of the way kids are developed. Kids don't play D in AAU, so when they get here they're lost on the defensive end. Its probably very hard to find defensive role players like Rubles or JJ that Mick's used to having.