(01-08-2016 01:39 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 01:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 12:49 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 12:48 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 12:42 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  He did say it doesn't look attractive. That's the actual quote.

I then explained why he said that.

No, it doesn't look attractive, even if the SB kicks them out.

More attractive than having to move down to Idaho St!

Nothing in the article supports the idea that Staben prefers FBS-at-all-costs to the Big Sky. That is what is new and interesting about this article.

No, that's just people who yearn for the old Big Sky days reading what they want to read.

No, for example I don't give a fart in a turdstorm about the Big Sky, or IDaho Vandals anything unless there's some realignment chaos to be seen.

Quote:Idaho has been considering its options, Staben said, whether it can remain in the Football Bowl Subdivision or return to the Football Championship Subdivision ranks in the Big Sky Conference.

FCS Big Sky is an option that Staben is considering. IT is not phrased as a calamity for Idaho Vandals athletics or anything.

Quote:The Sun Belt, and FBS status, provide better revenue for the school, Staben said, but the Big Sky, where Idaho played from 1965-95, would be a much better regional fit

FBS status > FCS because MONEY. Nothing about prestige or peer institutions or institutional profile etc.

Outside the Sun Belt, there's no CFP money for Idaho, no bowl money. There's the money that Idaho can squeeze out of higher-level FBS programs for body-bag games, balanced against the need to get those programs out to Moscow to fill a 5-game schedule.

FBS probably makes Idaho a little more than FCS, or loses a little less. But, STaben says, the Big Sky is a "better regional fit".

Quote:In addition to a loss in revenue, a change from FBS to FCS would mean a smaller budget, a reduction of football scholarships from 85 to 63 to fit FCS requirements, and an analyzation of all teams in the athletic department.

Which would suit the treasurer of the U of Idaho fine, I suspect.

Quote:Staben said “that alternative doesn’t look attractive to me,” noting difficulty in scheduling and a lack of rivals.

“The student-athlete experience is very important. ... We want the fans to be excited about things. Winning actually is a lot better than losing,” Staben said.

So the positives of FBS independence are some financial benefits, and the positives of FCS Big Sky are pretty much everything else Staben said.

I don't see how you can read this as Staben planning to keep U of Idaho FBS independent, except by having that conclusion beforehand and not considering the article itself.

IT's fine to say U of Idaho won't drop down to IDaho State's level if they can at all avoid it. That may well be true. But don't say that this article supports that. [/quote]

Horrible, horrible news for Idaho and their fans. Realignment has really messed things up.

The crazy thing is UMass needs more realignment to help them out after getting hurt by it the first time when Temple left the MAC.

We're lucky that we have Gillette to help with our Independent schedule.

And we just added Coastal Carolina to this in 2017 and 2018.

Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

(01-08-2016 01:52 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 11:29 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 11:24 AM)Crump1 Wrote:  Don't see us adding UMass or anyone else as football only. Idaho and NMSU were thrown life preservers and NMSU has pursued full membership but the location of both is not ideal. Drop both, add two full members and be done.

Why even add two full members, if a CCG can be achieved with 10?

Just dilutes whatever money you get.

You get the same amount per team from the NCAA with 10 that you do with 12. The only real difference is the TV money, but since UALR and UTA are non football, they don't get much of that cut anyway.

The NCAA gives money to the conference for the number of games played in March Madness. If you have more members, that same money is split into thinner pieces.

The CFP money is given to the conference and increased per member up to 12.

But having more does dilute the rest of it (bowl money and TV contract money).

I think Idaho and it's fans would be better served by moving into the Big Sky. This isn't true for every team. But Idaho still is stuck with the Kibbie Dome after ~20 years in FBS. If you are not making the improvements, you are not going to get better. Drop down to FCS where you have a good, local conference and good rivals.

If you go to FBS, you have to go all out. If you only go in without the commitment, it is better to stay small. While I suggest Idaho move back down, props to the FCS teams who have come in, made the commitment, and who this year went to a bowl for the first time (Georgia State) or who won for the first time (Appalachian State, Georgia Southern). They also have teams and conferences in the near vicinity to create rivalries and sensible conferences, unlike Idaho.

(01-08-2016 01:54 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 01:39 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 01:11 PM)johnbragg Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 12:49 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 12:48 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  No, it doesn't look attractive, even if the SB kicks them out.

More attractive than having to move down to Idaho St!

Nothing in the article supports the idea that Staben prefers FBS-at-all-costs to the Big Sky. That is what is new and interesting about this article.

No, that's just people who yearn for the old Big Sky days reading what they want to read.

No, for example I don't give a fart in a turdstorm about the Big Sky, or IDaho Vandals anything unless there's some realignment chaos to be seen.

Quote:Idaho has been considering its options, Staben said, whether it can remain in the Football Bowl Subdivision or return to the Football Championship Subdivision ranks in the Big Sky Conference.

FCS Big Sky is an option that Staben is considering. IT is not phrased as a calamity for Idaho Vandals athletics or anything.

Quote:The Sun Belt, and FBS status, provide better revenue for the school, Staben said, but the Big Sky, where Idaho played from 1965-95, would be a much better regional fit

FBS status > FCS because MONEY. Nothing about prestige or peer institutions or institutional profile etc.

Outside the Sun Belt, there's no CFP money for Idaho, no bowl money. There's the money that Idaho can squeeze out of higher-level FBS programs for body-bag games, balanced against the need to get those programs out to Moscow to fill a 5-game schedule.

FBS probably makes Idaho a little more than FCS, or loses a little less. But, STaben says, the Big Sky is a "better regional fit".

Quote:In addition to a loss in revenue, a change from FBS to FCS would mean a smaller budget, a reduction of football scholarships from 85 to 63 to fit FCS requirements, and an analyzation of all teams in the athletic department.

Which would suit the treasurer of the U of Idaho fine, I suspect.

Quote:Staben said “that alternative doesn’t look attractive to me,” noting difficulty in scheduling and a lack of rivals.

“The student-athlete experience is very important. ... We want the fans to be excited about things. Winning actually is a lot better than losing,” Staben said.

So the positives of FBS independence are some financial benefits, and the positives of FCS Big Sky are pretty much everything else Staben said.

I don't see how you can read this as Staben planning to keep U of Idaho FBS independent, except by having that conclusion beforehand and not considering the article itself.

IT's fine to say U of Idaho won't drop down to IDaho State's level if they can at all avoid it. That may well be true. But don't say that this article supports that.

Well, that's the thing. This article, like so many articles bandied about, can really be read however the reader wants to read it.

- FBS independents do get some money from the CFP, believe it or not. I'd also be curious to know if Idaho gets a reduced share of football/CFP/bowl money from the Sun Belt as an affiliate member.

Also, as an independent, if they did make a bowl (which hasn't happened as member of the Sun Belt) they'd get to keep the entire payout, rather than it going to everyone in the conference.

- If Idaho joined the "Northwestern Idaho Junior College Conference", that would be a "better regional fit" too. What does that prove?

- Why would the UI athletic dept be suited from less money coming in?

- Exactly as I said: Staben didn't confirm anything directly that you claim he does. You're reading what you want to read.

No worries, everyone here does it. You pretty much have to, as there's so very little information shared with the public these days before the actual press conference to announce the thing.

(01-08-2016 12:12 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 11:32 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 10:56 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 09:45 AM)10thMountain Wrote:  Idaho move to Big Sky makes a lot of sense.

They have a 16k domed stadium. They need to go back to FCS.

Never should have left D1AA/FCS in the first place.

The other thing is that this is not the last of these hard conversations that will happen in FBS.

UAB didn't have the conversation. The Cabal just shut it down and then had to backtrack.

Rice actually had the conversation. And they decided staying where they were at made the most sense. UAB would actually have more options than Rice did (which were stay in CUSA or drop to Div III UAA and travel around the country to play Chicago, Emory, etc.).

FIFY

Sent from my BlackBerry Z30 using Tapatalk.

(01-08-2016 02:58 PM)HawkeyeCoug Wrote:  I think Idaho and it's fans would be better served by moving into the Big Sky. This isn't true for every team. But Idaho still is stuck with the Kibbie Dome after ~20 years in FBS. If you are not making the improvements, you are not going to get better. Drop down to FCS where you have a good, local conference and good rivals.

If you go to FBS, you have to go all out. If you only go in without the commitment, it is better to stay small. While I suggest Idaho move back down, props to the FCS teams who have come in, made the commitment, and who this year went to a bowl for the first time (Georgia State) or who won for the first time (Appalachian State, Georgia Southern). They also have teams and conferences in the near vicinity to create rivalries and sensible conferences, unlike Idaho.

Yeah, the Big Sky with all those "local" rivals like Cal Poly (1113mi.), Northern Arizona (1176mi.) and U of North Dakota (1264mi.), is surely a better fit for Idaho!

And they'll save a bunch of money from slashing all those scholarships ... from 85 all the way down to 63.

And they'll pay their head coach much less, to be competitive in the Big Sky ... since Montana's coach makes more money than Idaho's coach does now.

And they'll drop down to FCS and win the Big Sky their first year, for sure! Except being less competitive than Montana, Montana St, UND, EWU, Portland St, and probably others.


Conclusion: the Big Sky will cost just as much, Idaho will lose just as much (if not more) and the fans will still have to travel far for games, while bringing in much less money and getting much less exposure. And they'll have to deal with the perception that they're the same as Idaho St.

Seems like a big price to pay, just to get back an annual game with Montana.



But it also means less competition for BYU, so I can see why you'd suggest it.

(01-08-2016 02:46 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

(01-08-2016 03:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:46 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

The MW will never invite Idaho. They bring no value to the conference. Montana, UC-Davis, Portland St bring much, much more than Idaho.

(01-08-2016 03:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:46 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

Or, maybe the third tier Western FBS conference gets restarted. That, truly, is where Idaho and NM St belong.

(01-08-2016 03:53 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:46 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

The MW will never invite Idaho. They bring no value to the conference. Montana, UC-Davis, Portland St bring much, much more than Idaho.

Montana, obviously. But they've long resisted FBS. So much so that it's apart of their fan culture.

Davis and Portland St? Read: Northridge and Sac St to the Big Sky.

(01-08-2016 03:53 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:46 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

The MW will never invite Idaho. They bring no value to the conference. Montana, UC-Davis, Portland St bring much, much more than Idaho.

As mentioned, Montana has steadfastly refused to move up to FBS, even when the MWC kicked the tires. Cal-Davis (6,121) and Portland State (4,583) will need a lot of work to move up to FBS, even if that's their intent, and will the MWC want them?

If they lose two teams, and the AAC starts making overtures to San Diego State (which almost certainly would be there if Boise didn't back out) and the Front Range schools, then they'll need someone who's ready to go now.

That may still not be enough to prompt invitations to Idaho and New Mexico State, but it increases the chances.

(01-08-2016 03:55 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:46 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

Or, maybe the third tier Western FBS conference gets restarted. That, truly, is where Idaho and NM St belong.

Are there enough Western teams willing and able to do FBS football? Because existing FBS schools won't move to a third-tier conference by choice. Even if you expand the idea of Western to Texas and the Plains states, UTSA and Texas State aren't moving to this neo-Big West/WAC to play Idaho, NMSU and a gaggle of callups.

(01-08-2016 03:57 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:53 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:46 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

The MW will never invite Idaho. They bring no value to the conference. Montana, UC-Davis, Portland St bring much, much more than Idaho.

Montana, obviously. But they've long resisted FBS. So much so that it's apart of their fan culture.

Davis and Portland St? Read: Northridge and Sac St to the Big Sky.

They resisted a down-grade to the WAC.

I think a fair number of schools in the west would seriously consider a call from the MWC, if one ever came.

(01-08-2016 04:13 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:53 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:46 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

The MW will never invite Idaho. They bring no value to the conference. Montana, UC-Davis, Portland St bring much, much more than Idaho.

As mentioned, Montana has steadfastly refused to move up to FBS, even when the MWC kicked the tires. Cal-Davis (6,121) and Portland State (4,583) will need a lot of work to move up to FBS, even if that's their intent, and will the MWC want them?

If they lose two teams, and the AAC starts making overtures to San Diego State (which almost certainly would be there if Boise didn't back out) and the Front Range schools, then they'll need someone who's ready to go now.

That may still not be enough to prompt invitations to Idaho and New Mexico State, but it increases the chances.

The MW never kicked any tires with Montana. The MW doesn't need any FCS schools. I'm saying there are 10 other schools before Idaho that get in.
Its different scenario to moving up to an unstable WAC and the MW offers much more revenue. But the MW will expand into Texas first, NMSU next, then perhaps drawing up a FCS team or two for the first time before they even get to Idaho.
PSU and Cal-Davis offered a larger metro area than what Idaho offers in there area. Idaho has a much bigger problem than moving to FCS and that is their enrollment is declining while BSU and Idaho St are increasing.

(01-08-2016 04:15 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:55 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:46 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

Or, maybe the third tier Western FBS conference gets restarted. That, truly, is where Idaho and NM St belong.

Are there enough Western teams willing and able to do FBS football? Because existing FBS schools won't move to a third-tier conference by choice. Even if you expand the idea of Western to Texas and the Plains states, UTSA and Texas State aren't moving to this neo-Big West/WAC to play Idaho, NMSU and a gaggle of callups.

I've said it before, but the following could technically work:

Big West (Pacific/Hawaii): Hawaii, Fresno, San Jose, San Diego, Nevada, UNLV, Davis, Sac, Poly (all are/become full members of Big West)

Mountain: Boise, Idaho, Utah St, Wyoming, Colo St, Air Force, New Mexico, New Mexico St, UTEP (all are/become full members of MWC)

Extremely low chance of happening, I know.

(01-08-2016 04:18 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:57 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:53 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:46 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

The MW will never invite Idaho. They bring no value to the conference. Montana, UC-Davis, Portland St bring much, much more than Idaho.

Montana, obviously. But they've long resisted FBS. So much so that it's apart of their fan culture.

Davis and Portland St? Read: Northridge and Sac St to the Big Sky.

They resisted a down-grade to the WAC.

I think a fair number of schools in the west would seriously consider a call from the MWC, if one ever came.

Maybe. I think their fans are extremely resistant to the idea. You know exactly the type I'm talking about, since I know you've been on AGS.

If the MWC came around, it's possible the conference could be dilapidated to the point that it resembled a WAC.

(01-08-2016 04:46 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 04:13 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:53 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 02:46 PM)rjglassett Wrote:  Neither school could stay as an independent for long. Idaho may have to move some home games to Boise or Pullman to get home games. If the SBC doesn't extend the contract, they probably should drop and join the Big Sky. They really have no home, and even the SunBelt isn't a great long term destination. Barring the MW extending an offer, the big Sky is their only home.

Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

The MW will never invite Idaho. They bring no value to the conference. Montana, UC-Davis, Portland St bring much, much more than Idaho.

As mentioned, Montana has steadfastly refused to move up to FBS, even when the MWC kicked the tires. Cal-Davis (6,121) and Portland State (4,583) will need a lot of work to move up to FBS, even if that's their intent, and will the MWC want them?

If they lose two teams, and the AAC starts making overtures to San Diego State (which almost certainly would be there if Boise didn't back out) and the Front Range schools, then they'll need someone who's ready to go now.

That may still not be enough to prompt invitations to Idaho and New Mexico State, but it increases the chances.

The MW never kicked any tires with Montana. The MW doesn't need any FCS schools. I'm saying there are 10 other schools before Idaho that get in.
Its different scenario to moving up to an unstable WAC and the MW offers much more revenue. But the MW will expand into Texas first, NMSU next, then perhaps drawing up a FCS team or two for the first time before they even get to Idaho.
PSU and Cal-Davis offered a larger metro area than what Idaho offers in there area. Idaho has a much bigger problem than moving to FCS and that is their enrollment is declining while BSU and Idaho St are increasing.

Of course you're talking a bunch of trash about Idaho. You root for Boise. And you think you own the MWC.

Idaho is much closer to Boise, in terms of athletic dept, than they are all the way down to Idaho St. In terms of research, Idaho is the only major research institution in the state.

(01-08-2016 03:55 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-08-2016 03:34 PM)Cyniclone Wrote:  Maybe that's what they're holding on for. If one or two MWC schools get Big 12 invites, the MWC may be willing to invite Idaho and New Mexico State to get back to 12/hedge against a possible incursion by the AAC to really hurt them.

Or, maybe the third tier Western FBS conference gets restarted. That, truly, is where Idaho and NM St belong.

That hope died when the WAC voted not to invite FCS teams to replenish themselves a couple of years ago. They had the chance to invite FCS schools to replace Fresno, Nevada, and Hawaii. Louisiana Tech and Utah State would've still left for sure, probably SJSU too. But the WAC could've survived if they backfilled with schools like Montana and Eastern Washington to go along with castaways like Idaho and NMSU. It would be weak, but it would still be around.