(01-07-2016 09:23 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  I suppose that when your unfunded public sector obligations exceed $33 billion, you might figure that something has to give.

I've posted numerous times before that the public sector pensions were going to be the ruin of state and local governments and this is just a sample of what's to come. Services will be affected. Soon we'll be hearing how municipalities are cutting police and fire. It's going to happen.

What do you expect. Progressives believe the party will never and and that Thatcher was wrong, because they don't think they will run out of other peoples money.

I honestly wanted to give Obama a chance back in the day. But then he went and took the stimulus money and used it only to support big government unions so that states could avoid right sizing their labor force.

He could have repaired a good chunk of our aging infrastructure but was more interested in making sure govt unions did not lose clout.

The money spent infrastructure would have been a one time expense and left us with a tangible asset. Instead we pretty much just burned it.

(01-06-2016 11:12 PM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(01-06-2016 09:19 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  So the City of Flint chose to make the switch.


No..... Governor Snyder's appointee's for the City of Flint decided to make the switch.

Should executives always be helped 100% accountable for their appointees decisions?

Mach?

100%? Interesting question. I imagine a sliding scale to which he leads himself open to an attack by an adverse party by his general reputation for truth and veracity in the community by which he serves.

(01-07-2016 11:05 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  100%? Interesting question. I imagine a sliding scale to which he leads himself open to an attack by an adverse party by his general reputation for truth and veracity in the community by which he serves.

So no commitment from you on this... GOP leaders who in your mind are evils lairs who don't serve the community are more accountable for their subordinates then the well meaning democrats of noble intent..

Convenient..

This is a major screw up BIE. Let the crime fit the punishment.

(01-07-2016 11:54 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  This is a major screw up BIE. Let the crime fit the punishment.

A screw up is not a crime. Do you beleive (1) they intended to give crap water to kids? or that perhaps there was an error in judgment (which was passed by a 7-1 vote of the city leadership).

The 7-1 vote was to stop water from Detroit. That wasn't to get water from the Flint River. Two separate things. Snyder's appointee Kurtz decided on where Flint received the water. A horrible mistake that's going to effect a generation of kids.

(01-06-2016 08:25 PM)Machiavelli Wrote:  What would you call switching the feed from Lake Huron to the Flint River to save money? Honestly what would you call that. Forcing poor people to ingest copper and lead in their drinking water? Honestly. What would Ayn Rand say? Mr. Creedy? John Galt? Suck it up boys and girls. You should have been born to parents that can afford to live outside Flint proper. No Lake Huron water for you. Take this nice glass of GM residue's finest!

In this topic ... Mach rails against a government monopoly utility as though it embodies the ideals of an Ayn Rand world, and simultaneously blends that in with a misunderstanding of where Mr. Creedy comes from (V for Vendetta) and what he represents (absolute unrestricted violence to anyone who opposes the state ... like, oh, I dunno, seriously saying "execute the Oregon ranch people".)

You've gone off the rails Mach. You've dug a hole so deep I don't know if I have a rope ladder long enough to get you out.

(01-08-2016 12:30 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  The 7-1 vote was to stop water from Detroit. That wasn't to get water from the Flint River. Two separate things. Snyder's appointee Kurtz decided on where Flint received the water. A horrible mistake that's going to effect a generation of kids.

Without using Detroit what were the other options?

Ohhh how about a huge Lake to the East.

(01-08-2016 01:23 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  Ohhh how about a huge Lake to the East.

Now your a civil engineer... Good to know.

I remember seeing a piece that Rachel Maddow's did on the crisis in Flint. Extremely informative and balanced, probably the best thing I've seen her do. People should be out in the streets demanding that the governor resign. I mean to jeopardize the lives of children just to cut a little spending, give me a break. I'm all for balancing a budget and limiting spending, but c'mon man. Disgusting.

So why not bring in the corp of engineers and a national guard water purification group in and rework the waterlines . They can install liners to prevent any more rusting of pipes and the water group can set up a purification system from the river source before entering the waterlines. They do it all of the time in other countries to restore water systems and treat polluted or poisoned water streams. I'm sure this has been a long term problem that previous Democrat administrations have swept under the rug for decades but not it has a political reason to sound the horn .

I was on a Michigan Wolverine forum and one guy said this all could have been avoided with about 75 dollars a day of anti corrosives. 100 at best. In my viewpoint (and I know many on here will disagree). This is the inherent dangers of the privatization movement. Whoever is in charge of the water should be living in the community that drinks the water. Snyder had zero business appointing a czar to run a cities water dept. and if he did he better make damn sure events like this never had a way of happening.

http://www.wdrb.com/story/29783952/inves...han-a-year

This is in a Mostly White middle class County right below Louisville's Jefferson county. And from under an 8 year term Democrat Governorship. Sh!t Happens !

(01-08-2016 07:07 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I was on a Michigan Wolverine forum and one guy said this all could have been avoided with about 75 dollars a day of anti corrosives. 100 at best. In my viewpoint (and I know many on here will disagree). This is the inherent dangers of the privatization movement. Whoever is in charge of the water should be living in the community that drinks the water. Snyder had zero business appointing a czar to run a cities water dept. and if he did he better make damn sure events like this never had a way of happening.

Except he didn't appoint a czar to run the water dept. He appointed somebody to help get their finances straight. It was the city that decided that was a good place to cut cost.

blunder................... Do you ever tire of being wrong? Better question are you ever right? The broken clock paradox? The city did not decide to get water from the river to save money. Snyder's appointee Kurtz did and he's not talking. If you have any evidence or link from a credible source please provide said evidence to prove otherwise.

(01-08-2016 08:34 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  blunder................... Do you ever tire of being wrong? Better question are you ever right? The broken clock paradox? The city did not decide to get water from the river to save money. Snyder's appointee Kurtz did and he's not talking. If you have any evidence or link from a credible source please provide said evidence to prove otherwise.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/politics.../76037130/

Quote: the Flint City Council, which was under a state-appointed emergency manager, voted 7-1 in favor of a switch in the source of its water supply from the City of Detroit to a new Karegnondi Water Authority, a move that would ultimately lead to Flint using corrosive water from the Flint River as an interim source, which produced drinking water with unsafe levels of lead.

There it is *******. Here's the problem with leftist like yourself. You believe that the state is the solution for everything until they **** something up. Then suddenly they're 100% at fault, so long as you can find a Republican to blame. Ironically I haven't seen you post **** on the EPA disaster in Colorado. Apparently you can't find a Republican to blame there.

I guess that I shouldn't be surprised that you fail miserably at understanding the concept of local vs centralized government responsibilities. How did Flint get in these dire straights in the first place?

(01-08-2016 04:51 AM)WhoseHouse? Wrote:  I remember seeing a piece that Rachel Maddow's did on the crisis in Flint. Extremely informative and balanced, probably the best thing I've seen her do. People should be out in the streets demanding that the governor resign. I mean to jeopardize the lives of children just to cut a little spending, give me a break. I'm all for balancing a budget and limiting spending, but c'mon man. Disgusting.

1 - Maddow is as capable of doing "a balanced piece" as Glenn Beck. I'll believe it when I see it.

2 - The bolded is the most level headed thing I have seen on this thread. All of these calls for his arrest and trial are stupid as ****. If he really did something like move the water supply without proper planning thus missing something as important as heavy metals in the water then he should be pressured to resign or be impeached.

3 - If, on the other hand, environmental studies were done and passed and this is an unforeseen result what we have here is an example of bad **** happens sometimes.

(01-08-2016 07:07 AM)Machiavelli Wrote:  I was on a Michigan Wolverine forum and one guy said this all could have been avoided with about 75 dollars a day of anti corrosives. 100 at best.

Maybe, maybe not. I find it hard to believe that to save 100$ a day they would deliberately poison people.

Quote:In my viewpoint (and I know many on here will disagree). This is the inherent dangers of the privatization movement.

Right the government has *NEVER* destroyed a water supply or put forth a policy that hurt people. Only in the private industry do we see corruption.

Quote:Whoever is in charge of the water should be living in the community that drinks the water.

This is like saying a teacher should have to live in the neighborhood of the school in which they work. People, even those who work for the government, can live wherever the hell they want.

That's what happens in a *FREE* nation..