(12-28-2015 11:09 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 10:53 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If no changes are made, I would expect the same (or similar) results as this year.

A trip to the MACC and a bowl game?

I'd roll the dice on that again with a healthier NIU squad and a much easier OOC schedule next year

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I actually think next year would do worse for morale if we lost to a very good SDSU and USF versus losing to OSU and BC.

(12-28-2015 11:13 PM)NIUSox10 Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 11:09 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 10:53 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If no changes are made, I would expect the same (or similar) results as this year.

A trip to the MACC and a bowl game?

I'd roll the dice on that again with a healthier NIU squad and a much easier OOC schedule next year

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I actually think next year would do worse for morale if we lost to a very good SDSU and USF versus losing to OSU and BC.

We won't be as unhealthy next year. Hare back, Ness gone, all the young guys getting more practice in. I can be cautiously optimistic if I want. Too many negative nancies around here anyway

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(12-28-2015 11:18 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 11:13 PM)NIUSox10 Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 11:09 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 10:53 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If no changes are made, I would expect the same (or similar) results as this year.

A trip to the MACC and a bowl game?

I'd roll the dice on that again with a healthier NIU squad and a much easier OOC schedule next year

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I actually think next year would do worse for morale if we lost to a very good SDSU and USF versus losing to OSU and BC.

We won't be as unhealthy next year. Hare back, Ness gone, all the young guys getting more practice in. I can be cautiously optimistic if I want. Too many negative nancies around here anyway

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Negative 9 yards of Total Offense in a football game after the first series will cause some negativity unless one is delusional.

(12-28-2015 11:22 PM)prairiedawg Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 11:18 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 11:13 PM)NIUSox10 Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 11:09 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 10:53 PM)Dog Fan Wrote:  If no changes are made, I would expect the same (or similar) results as this year.

A trip to the MACC and a bowl game?

I'd roll the dice on that again with a healthier NIU squad and a much easier OOC schedule next year

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

I actually think next year would do worse for morale if we lost to a very good SDSU and USF versus losing to OSU and BC.

We won't be as unhealthy next year. Hare back, Ness gone, all the young guys getting more practice in. I can be cautiously optimistic if I want. Too many negative nancies around here anyway

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Negative 9 yards of Total Offense in a football game after the first series will cause some negativity unless one is delusional.

With the coaching staff remaining unchanged..

(12-28-2015 10:01 PM)scottiep12 Wrote:  If you put yourself in SF's shoes it's a pickle...

You are certainly in line for a bigger job, bigger payday. You've done a lot of great things.

You are probably stewing over that bowl loss and what to do with a stubborn head coach.

You probably want to make a statement, but the play may be to just try and keep the thing status quo.

Why end up in an HR mess at your current job when there are higher paying options evolving in front of you.

Possible, and at any point money talks, but it doesn't seem like it's in SF's genes to jump ship the easy way like that. He's clearly a smart businessman and if he did I wouldn't be surprised, BUT I don't think, from my many dealings with him, that that is what is on his table right now.

I think he wants to make this machine work. He wants to keep getting to (and winning) MACC games. He wants to challenge the big boys in OOC games. He wants to win a bowl game.

We'll see. Maybe I'm being young and naïve, but I just don't think he leaves. Yet.

lololololol "if no changes are made, I expect similar results next year."


*** **** IT NOT A 7TH STRAIGHT TRIP TO DETROIT NOOOOOOOOOOOO

I always find this board amusing because a person has to always be on one polar side of argument, there is never anything in between. As usual the truth is in the middle. You cannot argue with Carey's record, and his Big 10 wins, and the trips to Detroit, but on the flip side he has some serious shortcomings and a few times his teams have quit on him for whatever reason. Carey is no Ron Zook or Tim Beckman in terms of ineptitude, but he certainly is no George Halas either.

(12-29-2015 12:51 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  I always find this board amusing because a person has to always be on one polar side of argument, there is never anything in between. As usual the truth is in the middle. You cannot argue with Carey's record, and his Big 10 wins, and the trips to Detroit, but on the flip side he has some serious shortcomings and a few times his teams have quit on him for whatever reason. Carey is no Ron Zook or Tim Beckman in terms of ineptitude, but he certainly is no George Halas either.

Would you consider him like a "game manager" -- good enough to win some important games and the occasional MACC, but not one that will *constantly* get you to the promise land?

(12-29-2015 12:51 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  I always find this board amusing because a person has to always be on one polar side of argument, there is never anything in between. As usual the truth is in the middle. You cannot argue with Carey's record, and his Big 10 wins, and the trips to Detroit, but on the flip side he has some serious shortcomings and a few times his teams have quit on him for whatever reason. Carey is no Ron Zook or Tim Beckman in terms of ineptitude, but he certainly is no George Halas either.

He needs to find a better way to motivate his team to play in bowl games after they lose the MACC. I won't argue he hasn't been good enough in that aspect.

A fair criticism? 100%. Reason to have 15 threads calling for him to be fired. Absolutely not.

(12-29-2015 12:51 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  I always find this board amusing because a person has to always be on one polar side of argument, there is never anything in between. As usual the truth is in the middle. You cannot argue with Carey's record, and his Big 10 wins, and the trips to Detroit, but on the flip side he has some serious shortcomings and a few times his teams have quit on him for whatever reason. Carey is no Ron Zook or Tim Beckman in terms of ineptitude, but he certainly is no George Halas either.

That last sentence describes nearly ever coach ever. Congrats.

(12-29-2015 12:55 AM)7 Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 12:51 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  I always find this board amusing because a person has to always be on one polar side of argument, there is never anything in between. As usual the truth is in the middle. You cannot argue with Carey's record, and his Big 10 wins, and the trips to Detroit, but on the flip side he has some serious shortcomings and a few times his teams have quit on him for whatever reason. Carey is no Ron Zook or Tim Beckman in terms of ineptitude, but he certainly is no George Halas either.

He needs to find a better way to motivate his team to play in bowl games after they lose the MACC. I won't argue he hasn't been good enough in that aspect.

A fair criticism? 100%. Reason to have 15 threads calling for him to be fired. Absolutely not.

What about a change at OC? I know they didn't have a healthy QB and the one who played was an injured 3rd stringer, but that performance and some of the play calling was terrible.

(12-29-2015 01:00 AM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 12:55 AM)7 Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 12:51 AM)MaddDawgz02 Wrote:  I always find this board amusing because a person has to always be on one polar side of argument, there is never anything in between. As usual the truth is in the middle. You cannot argue with Carey's record, and his Big 10 wins, and the trips to Detroit, but on the flip side he has some serious shortcomings and a few times his teams have quit on him for whatever reason. Carey is no Ron Zook or Tim Beckman in terms of ineptitude, but he certainly is no George Halas either.

He needs to find a better way to motivate his team to play in bowl games after they lose the MACC. I won't argue he hasn't been good enough in that aspect.

A fair criticism? 100%. Reason to have 15 threads calling for him to be fired. Absolutely not.

What about a change at OC? I know they didn't have a healthy QB and the one who played was an injured 3rd stringer, but that performance and some of the play calling was terrible.

I think a change at OC could help. I think BC was incredibly uncreative in his play calling. But I'm very very bad at X's and O's, so I'll let those who have a better handle on them speak

A total and complete overreaction to one game. The offensive system they're running has more to do with the success since Doeren arrived than anything. Cole and company did an amazing job getting Graham ready for Toledo, Buffalo, and WMU. Pretty sure the offense was somewhere around 35th in the nation in total offense before the Ohio game and Graham's injury, and that included 2.5 games of Graham plus games against Ohio State and Boston College.

Look, I'm not going to sit here and say the bowl game wasn't terrible. It was. But there are plenty of explanations to offer up short of going full stupid and wanting to fire everyone because of it.

They're fine. They'll be right back in the mix to play in Detroit again next year. It's been a week now. Take a deep breath and move on.

(12-29-2015 01:05 AM)7 Wrote:  A total and complete overreaction to one game. The offensive system they're running has more to do with the success since Doeren arrived than anything. Cole and company did an amazing job getting Graham ready for Toledo, Buffalo, and WMU. Pretty sure the offense was somewhere around 35th in the nation in total offense before the Ohio game and Graham's injury, and that included 2.5 games of Graham plus games against Ohio State and Boston College.

Look, I'm not going to sit here and say the bowl game wasn't terrible. It was. But there are plenty of explanations to offer up short of going full stupid and wanting to fire everyone because of it.

They're fine. They'll be right back in the mix to play in Detroit again next year. It's been a week now. Take a deep breath and move on.

I agree with you on they'll be fine next year. But I can't get past them running Graham when it was obvious he couldn't run and it wasn't working. Give it to ACRB or Huff. At least they have a chance of getting some yards.

They had -18 yards after the first drive. Nothing was working. No playcall is going to fix not being able to block and then having a QB with limited talent to begin with having an injury hamper him.

There was no good solution to that game. The offensive line should have played better, but to be honest other than a few games the offensive line just wasn't that good next year.

Does that excuse 600-30 in yards? No of course not. Like I said, Carey has to find a better way to motivate them for bowl games after losing the MACC. But that wasn't a problem with a system or playcalling as much as it was a combination of all sorts of bad things happening. It was a perfect storm of doodoo. Does Cole deserve some of the blame? Oh yeah. Everyone does when you get your doors blown off like that. Should he be fired for it? Of course not.

Also, I will say that if everytime this program does something good, we point to the culture the players have and say the seniors, you have to look at them when something like this happens too. Peej had the quote talking about Ford saying he learned from the seniors when he got here about winning, and the seniors should have taken more pride in this game.

With that being said, this isn't a group of players who are used to playing in many meaningless games, so it's understandable it's a situation they struggle with. Like I said, a combination of a lot of bad things more than some huge red mark against a single person.

I don't think everyone needs to be fired. But as athletic director I do think it is Frazier's job to find out why events transpired the way they did vs Boise. It was one game but that was a complete white flag game by NIU and when you have that much dysfunction you have find out what went wrong and take steps to fix the cause.

(12-29-2015 01:15 AM)7 Wrote:  They had -18 yards after the first drive. Nothing was working. No playcall is going to fix not being able to block and then having a QB with limited talent to begin with having an injury hamper him.

There was no good solution to that game. The offensive line should have played better, but to be honest other than a few games the offensive line just wasn't that good next year.

Does that excuse 600-30 in yards? No of course not. Like I said, Carey has to find a better way to motivate them for bowl games after losing the MACC. But that wasn't a problem with a system or playcalling as much as it was a combination of all sorts of bad things happening. It was a perfect storm of doodoo. Does Cole deserve some of the blame? Oh yeah. Everyone does when you get your doors blown off like that. Should he be fired for it? Of course not.

I agree with almost everything you said. Game wouldn't have mattered.

But don't run a qb with a bad leg who isn't that great of a runner to begin with. Especially if you are so scared to put in his backup, you let him play hurt with no possibility to get even a 1st down. He was getting hit hard all game.

Teams lay down and get housed in bowl games every year. There doesn't need to be some grand investigation. **** happens. NIU got its doors blown off by TCU under Novak. Some team who I can't remember got their doors blown off last week.

Ole Miss got absolutely drubbed by TCU in a New Years six game last year. Motivation is always a huge factor in bowl games.

It's fine.

(12-29-2015 01:25 AM)NIU17 Wrote:  

(12-29-2015 01:15 AM)7 Wrote:  They had -18 yards after the first drive. Nothing was working. No playcall is going to fix not being able to block and then having a QB with limited talent to begin with having an injury hamper him.

There was no good solution to that game. The offensive line should have played better, but to be honest other than a few games the offensive line just wasn't that good next year.

Does that excuse 600-30 in yards? No of course not. Like I said, Carey has to find a better way to motivate them for bowl games after losing the MACC. But that wasn't a problem with a system or playcalling as much as it was a combination of all sorts of bad things happening. It was a perfect storm of doodoo. Does Cole deserve some of the blame? Oh yeah. Everyone does when you get your doors blown off like that. Should he be fired for it? Of course not.

I agree with almost everything you said. Game wouldn't have mattered.

But don't run a qb with a bad leg who isn't that great of a runner to begin with. Especially if you are so scared to put in his backup, you let him play hurt with no possibility to get even a 1st down. He was getting hit hard all game.

That's a totally fair criticism. I don't disagree with you whatsoever.