(12-15-2015 04:07 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 04:03 PM)I45owl Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 01:15 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Now that science has proven a link between anti-depressants and autism, I wonder if doctors will accordingly inform patients not to take those medications because of severe side effects. And not even temporary side effects, mind you. Permanent, irreversible side effects.

You keep using "link" and "side-effect" to mean the same thing, but they are not.

If you had actually read the article that you posted in the OP, you would have found that your answer is a decided and emphatic no, because the editorial published alongside the study in JAMA specifically cautioned against doing something so foolish and irrational.

Study finds link between autism and mother's antidepressant use - CBS News

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-there-a-l...ssant-use/ Wrote:"It makes no more sense to suggest that [antidepressants] should always be avoided than to say that they should never be stopped," King wrote in the editorial.

I never said they should always be avoided.

But I did say that only an idiot would believe that a woman could take these drugs whilst pregnant with no risk of permanently damaging their child.

Now, that risk/link has been scientifically proven.

So yes, expectant mothers should think twice about their antidepressant regimen whilst pregnant. It would simply be selfish as **** otherwise.

Again, the study does not suggest (much less prove) significant risk to the child or definitive causation from these drugs. And, again, the wise choice in many cases is to continue taking the drug.

Welp, antidepressants accounted for 18% (3,889) of pharmaceutical overdose deaths in 2010. Per the CDC.

But you can't abuse them because you don't get high.

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2013/p...eaths.html

(12-15-2015 04:10 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Welp, antidepressants accounted for 18% (3,889) of pharmaceutical overdose deaths in 2010. Per the CDC.

But you can't abuse them because you don't get high.

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2013/p...eaths.html

What? In what world is overdose evidence of widespread drug abuse? Acetaminophen causes insane numbers of overdose deaths a year, are you going to claim that Aspirin is commonly abused? Furthermore, the antidepressants you've linked were all SSRI's, which "are rarely fatal in overdose when taken alone".

You're out of your depth here, I mean that as politely as I can say it. You're making claims that aren't supported by the study your citing, you're drawing connections which have no logical connection, and unfortunately, you don't seem to be able to grasp just how wrong your claims are.

(12-15-2015 06:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 04:10 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Welp, antidepressants accounted for 18% (3,889) of pharmaceutical overdose deaths in 2010. Per the CDC.

But you can't abuse them because you don't get high.

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2013/p...eaths.html

What? In what world is overdose evidence of widespread drug abuse? Acetaminophen causes insane numbers of overdose deaths a year, are you going to claim that Aspirin is commonly abused? Furthermore, the antidepressants you've linked were all SSRI's, which "are rarely fatal in overdose when taken alone".

You're out of your depth here, I mean that as politely as I can say it. You're making claims that aren't supported by the study your citing, you're drawing connections which have no logical connection, and unfortunately, you don't seem to be able to grasp just how wrong your claims are.

Remember, these are the same people that disagree with global warming just because they do.

(12-15-2015 06:50 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 06:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 04:10 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Welp, antidepressants accounted for 18% (3,889) of pharmaceutical overdose deaths in 2010. Per the CDC.

But you can't abuse them because you don't get high.

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2013/p...eaths.html

What? In what world is overdose evidence of widespread drug abuse? Acetaminophen causes insane numbers of overdose deaths a year, are you going to claim that Aspirin is commonly abused? Furthermore, the antidepressants you've linked were all SSRI's, which "are rarely fatal in overdose when taken alone".

You're out of your depth here, I mean that as politely as I can say it. You're making claims that aren't supported by the study your citing, you're drawing connections which have no logical connection, and unfortunately, you don't seem to be able to grasp just how wrong your claims are.

Remember, these are the same people that disagree with global warming just because they do.

Well, it would require a change from the status quo. And we can't have that.

(12-15-2015 06:50 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 06:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 04:10 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Welp, antidepressants accounted for 18% (3,889) of pharmaceutical overdose deaths in 2010. Per the CDC.

But you can't abuse them because you don't get high.

http://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2013/p...eaths.html

What? In what world is overdose evidence of widespread drug abuse? Acetaminophen causes insane numbers of overdose deaths a year, are you going to claim that Aspirin is commonly abused? Furthermore, the antidepressants you've linked were all SSRI's, which "are rarely fatal in overdose when taken alone".

You're out of your depth here, I mean that as politely as I can say it. You're making claims that aren't supported by the study your citing, you're drawing connections which have no logical connection, and unfortunately, you don't seem to be able to grasp just how wrong your claims are.

Remember, these are the same people that disagree with global warming just because they do.

What on this thread specifically have I written that you disagree with?

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

(12-15-2015 06:50 PM)dmacfour Wrote:  these are the same people that disagree with global warming

I didn't know he had an opinion on the subject.

(12-15-2015 06:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  you don't seem to be able to grasp just how wrong your claims are.

My claims:

Antidepressant use during pregnancy causes an increased risk of autism in the child. Obviously.
Antidepressants are both over-prescribed and abused. But I guess 4,000 people abusing them to the point of dying doesn't qualify as evidence in your eyes.

That's it. It really isn't rocket surgery.

(12-16-2015 09:48 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(12-15-2015 06:10 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  you don't seem to be able to grasp just how wrong your claims are.

My claims:

Antidepressant use during pregnancy causes an increased risk of autism in the child. Obviously.
Antidepressants are both over-prescribed and abused. But I guess 4,000 people abusing them to the point of dying doesn't qualify as evidence in your eyes.

That's it. It really isn't rocket surgery.

1. Your first claim isn't proven from this study, it's only correlated, and if you had read the study you'd know that the findings published qualifications on their result. Those qualifications were posted earlier, and immediately ignored by you, because you don't understand what you're talking about and have no interest in actually understanding it. You think reading a news headline means you understand something when in reality, it only gives you enough information to be dangerously wrong.

2. Again, overdosing on something is in NO WAY evidence that it's being abused. I posited a great example of what I mean by this, the fact many people overdose using Tylenol, and asked if you considered Tylenol to be abused. You ignored that, and just restated yourself again.

You're making yourself look foolish, and quite frankly, it's clear you haven't the slightest idea what you're talking about. When it comes to this subject matter, you really need to read more and post less.

"The study, published in JAMA Pediatrics, found that the risk of autism was greatest if the mother took selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors, often known by its acronym SSRIs. About 13 percent of American women take antidepressants during pregnancy.

"This is the group most used in the population in general and also during pregnancy. We're talking about Paxil, Prozac, Zoloft, Celexa, the most used antidepressants," one of the study authors, Anick Bérard, PhD, a professor at the University of Montreal's Faculty of Pharmacy and a researcher at the CHU Sainte-Justine Research Center, who specializes in the field of pharmaceutical safety during pregnancy, told CBS News.

After comparing those exposed to antidepressants in utero during the second or third trimester to those who weren't, the researchers found an 87 percent increased risk of autism."


I mean, I don't really know what else you're looking for. You're actually doing what you're accusing me of doing, which is avoiding everything in the article that doesn't align with what you want to believe.

Bro, if you OD on Tylenol, you're ABUSING Tylenol. If someone dies because they OD'd on Tylenol, then yes, they're obviously abusing it. I mean......derrrrrrr. Why are you being so intentionally dense? If I drink whiskey to the point where I'm throwing up and can't even stand up, that is ABUSING alcohol.

.......

I think that most man made complex chemical compounds cause all sorts of these conditions.

The more I look into this study, the more questions it's raising about the findings, and the more bells are ringing. All from this article.

The studies author, Anick Berard, works as a consultant for plaintiffs suing pharmaceutical companies which make antidepressants. Also, this research runs counter to many other studies which show no correlation outside of the increased risk inherent in those mothers who have depression.

This study done in 2015 found no increased risk of Autism, but a correlation with ADHD.

This study done in 2013 found no increased risk, either.

And, again, from the actual scientists

Quote:"This study doesn't answer the question," says Bryan King, program director of the autism center at Seattle Children's Hospital and a professor of psychiatry and behavioral sciences at the University of Washington. "My biggest concern is that it will be over-interpreted," says King, who wrote an editorial that accompanied the study.

And, bro, drug abuse is characterized by a patterned use of a drug in a way harmful to themselves related to a substance disorder. Using the term to characterize anyone who dies from using a drug or substance inappropriately is patently wrong in any medical sense. These words have meanings.

Please, take my advice. Read more about this subject, and post less. It'd do you some good.

(12-16-2015 10:50 AM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  I think that most man made complex chemical compounds cause all sorts of these conditions.

Based on what?

EDIT: What would you use to define 'complex' chemical compound? Because the largest 'chemical compounds' are the ones associated with organics, and they're literally the reason we have structure to our DNA, cell walls, and can exist.

(12-15-2015 11:11 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Gee, shocking I know. Only a selfish, total idiot would take drugs like that with a developing fetus inside of their body.

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-there-a-l...ssant-use/

Thanks Doctor.

Meanwhile...

Quote:However, experts caution that the overall risk is still low and women should not stop taking their medication without first talking to a doctor.

I'm wondering if you're oblivious to the fact that some people do actually need these drugs to keep from harming themselves and others? But hey...don't let that stop the feigned outrage.

He's just another person who read something which confirms his belief, and therefore now knows the answer.

I think what may be the most ludicrous thing is the blind assumption that pregnant mothers are somehow taking these drugs without the knowledge or at the express instruction of their doctor.

In what world do you think expectant mothers are just finding all these drugs to take, without their doctors consultation and knowledge via a written prescription, and just not caring what they might do to their baby?

Antidepressants sure are available street drugs. Everyones slinging prozac.

(12-16-2015 11:38 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I think what may be the most ludicrous thing is the blind assumption that pregnant mothers are somehow taking these drugs without the knowledge or at the express instruction of their doctor.

In what world do you think expectant mothers are just finding all these drugs to take, without their doctors consultation and knowledge via a written prescription, and just not caring what they might do to their baby?

Are you even serious?

Because pregnant mothers NEVER do other things unequivocally harmful whilst pregnant right? Like drink, smoke, do meth, do crack.....FOH with that crap.

Dude....the black market prescription drug business is ******* huge. Pills of many types are certainly the flavor of this decade. Besides, no one even said that expectant mothers are doing all these drugs without a doctor's consult. But using anti-depressants with a doctor's consult/permission doesn't somehow negate the increased risk of giving your child autism.

(12-16-2015 11:42 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(12-16-2015 11:38 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I think what may be the most ludicrous thing is the blind assumption that pregnant mothers are somehow taking these drugs without the knowledge or at the express instruction of their doctor.

In what world do you think expectant mothers are just finding all these drugs to take, without their doctors consultation and knowledge via a written prescription, and just not caring what they might do to their baby?

Are you even serious?

Because pregnant mothers NEVER do other things unequivocally harmful whilst pregnant right? Like drink, smoke, do meth, do crack.....FOH with that crap.

Dude....the black market prescription drug business is ******* huge. Pills of many types are certainly the flavor of this decade. Besides, no one even said that expectant mothers are doing all these drugs without a doctor's consult. But using anti-depressants with a doctor's consult/permission doesn't somehow negate the increased risk of giving your child autism.

You mentioned earlier that you had experience with several people who were on these types of drugs. Care to elaborate?

(12-16-2015 11:42 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(12-16-2015 11:38 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  I think what may be the most ludicrous thing is the blind assumption that pregnant mothers are somehow taking these drugs without the knowledge or at the express instruction of their doctor.

In what world do you think expectant mothers are just finding all these drugs to take, without their doctors consultation and knowledge via a written prescription, and just not caring what they might do to their baby?

Are you even serious?

Because pregnant mothers NEVER do other things unequivocally harmful whilst pregnant right? Like drink, smoke, do meth, do crack.....FOH with that crap.

Dude....the black market prescription drug business is ******* huge. Pills of many types are certainly the flavor of this decade. Besides, no one even said that expectant mothers are doing all these drugs without a doctor's consult. But using anti-depressants with a doctor's consult/permission doesn't somehow negate the increased risk of giving your child autism.

You think SSRI's are being sold on the black market in some massive quantity? Good god you say dumb things.

EDIT: And having a doctor consult means that the risk is being weighed against the risks of going off of the SSRI's. You keep acting like it is as simple as 'OH JUST GO OFF THESE ANTIDEPRESSANTS!!' as if there are no negative repercussions for doing so, despite multiple people correcting you multiple times. Stop. Embarassing. Yourself.