An Israeli cause célèbre, it seems strange that after all these years, and when verifiable presidential friends of Israel like Bush I and Bush II refusing to release Pollard (not to mention Clinton's Cash for Pardons program), his release comes during the presidency of the most anti-Israeli president in the last 60 years.

Personally, I do support Israel but have always been against Pollard's release. Bugs me that I don't have the Pollard card to play when anyone accuses me of "unquestioned" support of Israel.

Throughout the time that I have known about the Pollard case -- I guess I first heard of it about 25 years ago -- I have been opposed to his release. Even now, I have mixed feelings about it.

I do think you can make a legitimate argument that 30 years' imprisonment is a sufficient punishment for his crimes, though.

One condition of parole I would have personally imposed on Pollard would be that -- if he was released from prison -- he would have to go live in Israel.

(11-20-2015 10:41 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  An Israeli cause célèbre, it seems strange that after all these years, and when verifiable presidential friends of Israel like Bush I and Bush II refusing to release Pollard (not to mention Clinton's Cash for Pardons program), his release comes during the presidency of the most anti-Israeli president in the last 60 years.

Bush/43 may have felt that 15-23 years in prison was not long enough. Bush/41 -- I have no doubt -- definitely felt that 3-7 years in prison was not enough.

With Clinton, it may be that Pollard's advocates were not able to meet his price.

(11-20-2015 06:49 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  Throughout the time that I have known about the Pollard case -- I guess I first heard of it about 25 years ago -- I have been opposed to his release. Even now, I have mixed feelings about it.

I do think you can make a legitimate argument that 30 years' imprisonment is a sufficient punishment for his crimes, though.

One condition of parole I would have personally imposed on Pollard would be that -- if he was released from prison -- he would have to go live in Israel.

Israel gave him citizenship while he was incarcerated. Part of his parole is that he CAN'T leave the US for at least 5 years.

(11-20-2015 07:17 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 06:49 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  One condition of parole I would have personally imposed on Pollard would be that -- if he was released from prison -- he would have to go live in Israel.

Israel gave him citizenship while he was incarcerated. Part of his parole is that he CAN'T leave the US for at least 5 years.

Well, yes -- that's the part I disagree with.

I want him to either be in prison, or else be in Israel. I don't want him to experience freedom -- even of the limited, federal-parole variety -- here in America.

(11-20-2015 08:32 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 07:17 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 06:49 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  One condition of parole I would have personally imposed on Pollard would be that -- if he was released from prison -- he would have to go live in Israel.

Israel gave him citizenship while he was incarcerated. Part of his parole is that he CAN'T leave the US for at least 5 years.

Well, yes -- that's the part I disagree with.

I want him to either be in prison, or else be in Israel. I don't want him to experience freedom -- even of the limited, federal-parole variety -- here in America.

Better that than collecting cash and prizes from those to whom he sold out his country.

(11-20-2015 09:46 PM)58-56 Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 08:32 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 07:17 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 06:49 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  One condition of parole I would have personally imposed on Pollard would be that -- if he was released from prison -- he would have to go live in Israel.

Israel gave him citizenship while he was incarcerated. Part of his parole is that he CAN'T leave the US for at least 5 years.

Well, yes -- that's the part I disagree with.

I want him to either be in prison, or else be in Israel. I don't want him to experience freedom -- even of the limited, federal-parole variety -- here in America.

Better that than collecting cash and prizes from those to whom he sold out his country.

Hell, he might get both.

(11-20-2015 08:32 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 07:17 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 06:49 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  One condition of parole I would have personally imposed on Pollard would be that -- if he was released from prison -- he would have to go live in Israel.

Israel gave him citizenship while he was incarcerated. Part of his parole is that he CAN'T leave the US for at least 5 years.

Well, yes -- that's the part I disagree with.

I want him to either be in prison, or else be in Israel. I don't want him to experience freedom -- even of the limited, federal-parole variety -- here in America.

I misunderstood your post. And I see your point but in Israel he'd likely be treated as a hero. At least here, he'll always be a traitor. If I were him, I'd want to be in Israel.

Israel is not our friend or ally. Look up the USS Liberty where they murdered our sailors in 1967. LBJ basically gave them a pass.

(11-20-2015 10:32 PM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 08:32 PM)Native Georgian Wrote:  I want him to either be in prison, or else be in Israel. I don't want him to experience freedom -- even of the limited, federal-parole variety -- here in America.

I see your point but in Israel he'd likely be treated as a hero. At least here, he'll always be a traitor. If I were him, I'd want to be in Israel.

Being in Israel probably is "better" or more preferable for him, that's true. But to me, the question isn't what's better for Pollard. The question is, what's better for America. And -- JMHO -- what's better for America is that Pollard *Not* be living in America, unless he is in prison.

It honestly wouldn't have bothered me at all for Pollard to have served another 30 years in prison and possibly to have died there. But having made the choice to let him out, I say he is dead to us and shouldn't be in our midst.

(11-20-2015 10:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  Israel is not our friend or ally. Look up the USS Liberty where they murdered our sailors in 1967. LBJ basically gave them a pass.

Well at least LBJ did something right.

Seriously, only the anti-Israel crowd and conspiracy nutcakes think this was anything more than an error during the fog of war.

So which are you, Bullet, an anti-semite or a fruitcake?

(11-21-2015 08:42 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 10:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  Israel is not our friend or ally. Look up the USS Liberty where they murdered our sailors in 1967. LBJ basically gave them a pass.

Well at least LBJ did something right.

Seriously, only the anti-Israel crowd and conspiracy nutcakes think this was anything more than an error during the fog of war.

So which are you, Bullet, an anti-semite or a fruitcake?

Which are you, Zionist or an Israeli apologist? There are lots of reasonable people who think this was an intentional effort to keep the US from knowing what the Israelis were doing. There's no way the repeated attacks on the ship were anything but intentional, whether by Israel or a commander. Their communications indicate they knew it was American but they sent another wave of attacks.

The conspiracy nutcakes are running Israel now. Not that they don't have some reasons, but Bibi is still a short-sighted nutcake.

(11-21-2015 09:29 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 08:42 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 10:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  Israel is not our friend or ally. Look up the USS Liberty where they murdered our sailors in 1967. LBJ basically gave them a pass.

Well at least LBJ did something right.

Seriously, only the anti-Israel crowd and conspiracy nutcakes think this was anything more than an error during the fog of war.

So which are you, Bullet, an anti-semite or a fruitcake?

Which are you, Zionist or an Israeli apologist? There are lots of reasonable people who think this was an intentional effort to keep the US from knowing what the Israelis were doing. There's no way the repeated attacks on the ship were anything but intentional, whether by Israel or a commander. Their communications indicate they knew it was American but they sent another wave of attacks.

The conspiracy nutcakes are running Israel now. Not that they don't have some reasons, but Bibi is still a short-sighted nutcake.

When you avoid answering a question by positing an alternative question, you have lost. But thanks for playing, I'll send out your participation trophy.

(11-21-2015 11:29 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 09:29 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 08:42 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 10:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  Israel is not our friend or ally. Look up the USS Liberty where they murdered our sailors in 1967. LBJ basically gave them a pass.

Well at least LBJ did something right.

Seriously, only the anti-Israel crowd and conspiracy nutcakes think this was anything more than an error during the fog of war.

So which are you, Bullet, an anti-semite or a fruitcake?

Which are you, Zionist or an Israeli apologist? There are lots of reasonable people who think this was an intentional effort to keep the US from knowing what the Israelis were doing. There's no way the repeated attacks on the ship were anything but intentional, whether by Israel or a commander. Their communications indicate they knew it was American but they sent another wave of attacks.

The conspiracy nutcakes are running Israel now. Not that they don't have some reasons, but Bibi is still a short-sighted nutcake.

When you avoid answering a question by positing an alternative question, you have lost. But thanks for playing, I'll send out your participation trophy.

If you have to accuse someone of being an anti-semite because they don't share your vision that Israel can do no wrong...I think it's pretty clear you are the one who lost.

(11-21-2015 11:29 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 09:29 AM)bullet Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 08:42 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(11-20-2015 10:34 PM)bullet Wrote:  Israel is not our friend or ally. Look up the USS Liberty where they murdered our sailors in 1967. LBJ basically gave them a pass.

Well at least LBJ did something right.

Seriously, only the anti-Israel crowd and conspiracy nutcakes think this was anything more than an error during the fog of war.

So which are you, Bullet, an anti-semite or a fruitcake?

Which are you, Zionist or an Israeli apologist? There are lots of reasonable people who think this was an intentional effort to keep the US from knowing what the Israelis were doing. There's no way the repeated attacks on the ship were anything but intentional, whether by Israel or a commander. Their communications indicate they knew it was American but they sent another wave of attacks.

The conspiracy nutcakes are running Israel now. Not that they don't have some reasons, but Bibi is still a short-sighted nutcake.

When you avoid answering a question by positing an alternative question, you have lost. But thanks for playing, I'll send out your participation trophy.

When you ask a question like you did rather than arguing against the point, it demonstrates your limited intellectual capacity. So discussions with you are pointless.

30 years is a hell of a long time to spend in prison. He's paid his dues. IMHO.

(11-21-2015 02:34 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  30 years is a hell of a long time to spend in prison. He's paid his dues. IMHO.

Traitors should be executed, so no he didn't.

(11-21-2015 03:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 02:34 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  30 years is a hell of a long time to spend in prison. He's paid his dues. IMHO.

Traitors should be executed, so no he didn't.

Hell why don't you try spending 30 years in prison and see how well you would stand up. For that matter try 30 days, my guess is you would probably think you had paid for your crime. My opinion is you spend that long behind bars...the slate is wiped clean. Don't worry Mr. Pollard you done your time we're all even now. All is forgiven, or do you not know what that word means?

(11-21-2015 03:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 02:34 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  30 years is a hell of a long time to spend in prison. He's paid his dues. IMHO.

Traitors should be executed, so no he didn't.

This

Who he was spying for is irrelevant. He's a traitor and should never be released.

The fact he was spying for a supposed ally is a second issue and one I couldn't care less about.

He should have been shot.

(11-21-2015 03:34 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 03:13 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  

(11-21-2015 02:34 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  30 years is a hell of a long time to spend in prison. He's paid his dues. IMHO.

Traitors should be executed, so no he didn't.

This

Who he was spying for is irrelevant. He's a traitor and should never be released.

The fact he was spying for a supposed ally is a second issue and one I couldn't care less about.

He should have been shot.

You're right of course, he should be shot. And while we're at it lets shoot his wife. How about his kids? (if he has any). Lets shoot them too. And of course his parents, can't forget them, I mean they raised him...they definitely deserve shooting. Jesus forgave his executioners while he was on the cross, surely we can find it in ourselves to forgive this man. Maybe I'm naive but I'm all about second chances.