(11-11-2015 11:48 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 11:39 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 11:15 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  There must be a million things built into the structure that Egyptians from 4500 years ago could not possible have known.

Except that Egyptoligists, scientists, historians, archaeologists, laymen, and even ancient Egyptians themselves who wrote that they built the pyramids, that the pyramids were built by Egyptians, and it has been pretty conclusively proven that the technology required to build massive stone complexes, while advanced, is not out of the ordinary.

Stanley, no one is arguing that is not the most accepted theory right now in academic circles.

The point here is this doesn't make any sense. How can Egyptians from 4500 years ago know these things?

How did they know the earth was round? How did they know the earth orbited the sun? How did they calculate the curvature of the earth? The size of the earth? How did they calculate the distance form the sun? How did they know the longitude and latitude of the whole earth? How did they know the exact measurement of the Speed of Light?

If they knew all these things, why were they using copper chisels and stone rocks for hammers?

The Great Pyramid is more perfectly constructed than any modern building.

Here you go eric. I hope this helps solve some of the mystery for you.

http://www.livescience.com/1554-surprisi...built.html

Quote:The stones also had a high water content — unusual for the normally dry, natural limestone found on the Giza plateau — and the cementing phases, in both the inner and outer casing stones, were amorphous, in other words, their atoms were not arranged in a regular and periodic array. Sedimentary rocks such as limestone are seldom, if ever, amorphous.

The sample chemistries the researchers found do not exist anywhere in nature. "Therefore," Barsoum said, "it's very improbable that the outer and inner casing stones that we examined were chiseled from a natural limestone block."

Quote:Although Barsoum's research has not answered all of these questions, his work provides insight into some of the key questions. For example, it is now more likely than not that the tops of the pyramids are cast, as it would have been increasingly difficult to drag the stones to the summit.

Also, casting would explain why some of the stones fit so closely together. Still, as with all great mysteries, not every aspect of the pyramids can be explained. How the Egyptians hoisted 70-ton granite slabs halfway up the great pyramid remains as mysterious as ever.

Why do the results of Barsoum's research matter most today? Two words: earth cements.

(11-11-2015 11:59 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 11:43 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Stanley, no one is arguing that is the most accepted theory right now in academic circles.

You are.....

(11-11-2015 11:43 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  The point here is this doesn't make any sense. How can Egyptians from 4500 years ago know these things?

In the same way the examples I provided above with the Moon landing, Galileo and Archimedes: via the scientific method.

(11-11-2015 11:43 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  How did they know the earth was round? How did they know the earth orbited the sun? How did they calculate the curvature of the earth? The size of the earth? How did they calculate the distance form the sun? How did they know the longitude and latitude of the whole earth? How did they know the exact measurement of the Speed of Light?

You keep using these rather esoteric examples of why they couldn't build the Pyramids, as if knowing the the speed of light is required to place a level block. The builders of the pyramids needed to know how to: level the base (simple as pie, using water) align the edges (using string lines, just like a modern landscaper laying a stone wall) and then stack the blocks (using water power, lever power, or man power.) As long as they kept rigor in their measurements and "measure twice, cut once" this is nothing more than stacked stones one atop the next in a pyramid shape. Pretty straightforward, actually.

(11-11-2015 11:43 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  How did they move these Stone blocks that cranes today can't even lift?

A cadre of skilled workers, tens of thousands of farmworkers picking up extra money and religious karma in the off-season, and a combination of brute strength, lever technology, and water.

(11-11-2015 11:43 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its more perfectly constructed than any modern building.

Well, you show me a stone pyramid built in 2015 requiring the same tolerances and having the same budget as the Great Pyramid of Egypt, and I will show you a stone pyramid build better than the Great Pyramid of Egypt.

I get it. You are trying to deny these things are built into it.

Most scientist do not deny these things. They are accepted fact.

They simply accpet the Egyptians 4500 years ago knew these things.

(11-11-2015 12:02 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 11:57 AM)mturn017 Wrote:  I looked into it a little during lunch and most of this is pretty flimsy at best. It's interesting but not totally convincing, no. And they have found hieroglyphs in the Great Pyramid BTW.

No, there are zero burial hieroglyphs on the walls all through the structure, They are barren. There are a few hieroglyphs scratched in a few deep hidden chambers, along with a lot of other graffiti.

All the other pyramids are covered in hieroglyphs. Every single inch of wall space is covered with them.

The interior of the GP is barren. Even in the King and Queens chambers.

Exactly right, EGYPTIAN hieroglyph graffiti. Some even mentioning the Pharoah Khufu who most believe built (or rather had built) the Great Pyramid.

But I'm interested in the rest of it. Obviously you buy into Pyramidology. Would you care to share some evidence showing that the Pyramid was built with these astronomical figures in mind. Like I said, I looked into it briefly and am not convinced.

(11-11-2015 12:07 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Here you go eric. I hope this helps solve some of the mystery for you.

Thanks, I've already read much of that.

Its interesting stuff.

There is another really cool theory now were an architect theorized on the construction, and it led to them discovering what appears to be tunnels they used for moving the blocks inside the pyramid.

(11-11-2015 12:09 PM)mturn017 Wrote:  Exactly right, EGYPTIAN hieroglyph graffiti. Some even mentioning the Pharoah Khufu who most believe built (or rather had built) the Great Pyramid.

But I'm interested in the rest of it. Obviously you buy into Pyramidology. Would you care to share some evidence showing that the Pyramid was built with these astronomical figures in mind. Like I said, I looked into it briefly and am not convinced.

No, there is more than just Egyptian graffiti they are finding in there. People have been breaking into parts of it since ancient times.

But hey, who knows for sure. We have our currently accepted theories and some alternate theories.

(11-11-2015 12:07 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 11:59 AM)Lord Stanley Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 11:43 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Stanley, no one is arguing that is the most accepted theory right now in academic circles.

You are.....

(11-11-2015 11:43 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  The point here is this doesn't make any sense. How can Egyptians from 4500 years ago know these things?

In the same way the examples I provided above with the Moon landing, Galileo and Archimedes: via the scientific method.

(11-11-2015 11:43 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  How did they know the earth was round? How did they know the earth orbited the sun? How did they calculate the curvature of the earth? The size of the earth? How did they calculate the distance form the sun? How did they know the longitude and latitude of the whole earth? How did they know the exact measurement of the Speed of Light?

You keep using these rather esoteric examples of why they couldn't build the Pyramids, as if knowing the the speed of light is required to place a level block. The builders of the pyramids needed to know how to: level the base (simple as pie, using water) align the edges (using string lines, just like a modern landscaper laying a stone wall) and then stack the blocks (using water power, lever power, or man power.) As long as they kept rigor in their measurements and "measure twice, cut once" this is nothing more than stacked stones one atop the next in a pyramid shape. Pretty straightforward, actually.

(11-11-2015 11:43 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  How did they move these Stone blocks that cranes today can't even lift?

A cadre of skilled workers, tens of thousands of farmworkers picking up extra money and religious karma in the off-season, and a combination of brute strength, lever technology, and water.

(11-11-2015 11:43 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  Its more perfectly constructed than any modern building.

Well, you show me a stone pyramid built in 2015 requiring the same tolerances and having the same budget as the Great Pyramid of Egypt, and I will show you a stone pyramid build better than the Great Pyramid of Egypt.

I get it. You are trying to deny these things are built into it.

Most scientist do not deny these things. They are accepted fact.

They simply accpet the Egyptians 4500 years ago knew these things.

I don't know that that's true. A lot of what I read show these beliefs in the light of pseudoscience. Again I'm a novice in this area.

Sorry Eric...Science wins again.

Quote:Conclusion: In order to make the connection we have to actively include various options that fit the original claim, and exclude the many that doesn't, even though they are still fully valid options. A matching sequence of five digits is not particularly strange or extraordinary. People have won the lottery matching far longer sequences than just five digits. Sometimes numbers simply match up without any connection whatsoever. So because this argument require some forcing we can conclude that this is likely nothing but a coincidence.

Debunked: The Great pyramid of Giza and the Speed of Light

Quote:However, there are a number of aspects we must take into consideration before we jump to such conclusions. And most importantly we must realize that we are tweaking a number of factors to get a perfect match. Without these tweaks we quickly realize that the match is in fact not much of a match at all.

Generations of investigators have been convinced that—through divine revelation or the assistance of extraterrestrials—the builders of the Great Pyramid embedded the sum total of scientific knowledge within the dimensions of the structure. Fringe pyramidologists persist in their claims despite a 1992 effort to debunk them by Dutch astrophysicist Cornelis de Jager, who demonstrated the dimensions of any object can be manipulated to yield a desired outcome; he derived the speed of light and the distance between the Earth and Sun from his measurements of a bicycle.

No, Really, There is No Secret Code in the Pyramids

(11-11-2015 12:23 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  Sorry Eric...Science wins again.

Quote:Conclusion: In order to make the connection we have to actively include various options that fit the original claim, and exclude the many that doesn't, even though they are still fully valid options. A matching sequence of five digits is not particularly strange or extraordinary. People have won the lottery matching far longer sequences than just five digits. Sometimes numbers simply match up without any connection whatsoever. So because this argument require some forcing we can conclude that this is likely nothing but a coincidence.

Debunked: The Great pyramid of Giza and the Speed of Light

Quote:Generations of investigators have been convinced that—through divine revelation or the assistance of extraterrestrials—the builders of the Great Pyramid embedded the sum total of scientific knowledge within the dimensions of the structure. Fringe pyramidologists persist in their claims despite a 1992 effort to debunk them by Dutch astrophysicist Cornelis de Jager, who demonstrated the dimensions of any object can be manipulated to yield a desired outcome; he derived the speed of light and the distance between the Earth and Sun from his measurements of a bicycle.

No, Really, There is No Secret Code in the Pyramids

Science wins over science?

Why do you have to try and make it into such a petty, childish argument?

We can all post different links with different theories from different scientists.

I've not told anyone here to accpet any theories on it. I find it interesting and I am open to new discoveries and ideas.

You act like I claim to know the answers on it already, I do not.

If you want to think its all solved and all is known, then go for it.

There is a story out today about unexplained thermal abnormalities within the GP


http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/10/africa/egy...index.html

eric, many times I don't understand you at all. You believe the pyramids were built by another advanced civilization predating the Egyptians and currently unknown to us, make claims about how these scientific facts are "built into" the pyramid like the speed of light, curvature of the earth and then point out how insufficient the copper chisels and stone hammers were for getting large quarried limestone to fit with great precision. When documentation shows that these beliefs about the Great Pyramid are either rigged for a desired outcome or techniques are shown that can explain how some of the structure can fit so well - you acknowledge it and then continue on with your weird beliefs. Are you incapable of admitting that perhaps your views may not be tenable?

(11-11-2015 12:45 PM)miko33 Wrote:  eric, many times I don't understand you at all. You believe the pyramids were built by another advanced civilization predating the Egyptians and currently unknown to us, make claims about how these scientific facts are "built into" the pyramid like the speed of light, curvature of the earth and then point out how insufficient the copper chisels and stone hammers were for getting large quarried limestone to fit with great precision. When documentation shows that these beliefs about the Great Pyramid are either rigged for a desired outcome or techniques are shown that can explain how some of the structure can fit so well - you acknowledge it and then continue on with your weird beliefs. Are you incapable of admitting that perhaps your views may not be tenable?

That's because you are obsessing over my religious beliefs and that's all that runs through your head when you see me post. Thus you never really slow down and read my words. You scan them, see a few trigger words and then go into hyper troll mode over some straw man I didn't even suggest to begin with.

I never told You I knew the answers and thought anything was solved. I never told you anyone knew for sure the Egyptians didn't build the GP, I told you I had a really hard time accepting they did and think the GP could predate them.

That has been my belief LONG before this thread began today.

You read that stuff into my words because you wanted to. You have done that multiple times in this and other threads.

Its time you slow down, read my words and stop filling in the blanks with your own imagination. If you are seriously concerned about my thoughts, then ask me. Don't assume and attack me based on your own imagined assumptions.

(11-11-2015 02:15 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I don't believe Joseph built the pyramids. By all accounts, the Pyramids were already there when he entered the land and had been there for many centuries.

But I also refuse to pretend the Egyptians built the Great Pyramid. Its is WELL beyond their knowledge and capabilities imo.

The other pyramids are very simple in design compared to the great pyramid.

Seems pretty clear to me that you believe the Egyptians didn't build the GP.

(11-11-2015 02:01 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 02:15 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  I don't believe Joseph built the pyramids. By all accounts, the Pyramids were already there when he entered the land and had been there for many centuries.

But I also refuse to pretend the Egyptians built the Great Pyramid. Its is WELL beyond their knowledge and capabilities imo.

The other pyramids are very simple in design compared to the great pyramid.

Seems pretty clear to me that you believe the Egyptians didn't build the GP.

I don't. But I don't know for sure.

That's what I've said all along here.

I never said anything was proven, I said I'm not really sure about who did.

Bless your heart. You are trying so hard.

(11-11-2015 12:50 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 12:45 PM)miko33 Wrote:  eric, many times I don't understand you at all. You believe the pyramids were built by another advanced civilization predating the Egyptians and currently unknown to us, make claims about how these scientific facts are "built into" the pyramid like the speed of light, curvature of the earth and then point out how insufficient the copper chisels and stone hammers were for getting large quarried limestone to fit with great precision. When documentation shows that these beliefs about the Great Pyramid are either rigged for a desired outcome or techniques are shown that can explain how some of the structure can fit so well - you acknowledge it and then continue on with your weird beliefs. Are you incapable of admitting that perhaps your views may not be tenable?

That's because you are obsessing over my religious beliefs and that's all that runs through your head when you see me post. Thus you never really slow down and read my words. You scan them, see a few trigger words and then go into hyper troll mode over some straw man I didn't even suggest to begin with.

I never told You I knew the answers and thought anything was solved. I never told you anyone knew for sure the Egyptians didn't build the GP, I told you I had a really hard time accepting they did and think the GP could predate them.

That has been my belief LONG before this thread began today.

You read that stuff into my words because you wanted to. You have done that multiple times in this and other threads.

Its time you slow down, read my words and stop filling in the blanks with your own imagination. If you are seriously concerned about my thoughts, then ask me. Don't assume and attack me based on your own imagined assumptions.

For the first part, no I actually do not obsess over your religious beliefs. Now I have been reading more about religion recently, so I've been focused more on that topic as of late. But no, I'm not obsessed with you for what you believe. However, I do call you out on things where I think you are playing loose and easy with the facts.

Which brings me to the second point. Whether it's intentional or not, you're a slippery character. You staked out a belief about the Great Pyramid, and you must admit that your first couple of posts were very vague and nebulous. Then you add more detail about a lost civilization and discuss various points about constants and mathematical expressions were "built into" the Pyramid. When called out on it, you backtrack and divorce yourself of any position - claiming that you're "just putting it out there" or that "there are many different theories...". Seriously dude, that's very disingenuous on your part.

+-

(11-11-2015 02:54 PM)miko33 Wrote:  For the first part, no I actually do not obsess over your religious beliefs. Now I have been reading more about religion recently, so I've been focused more on that topic as of late. But no, I'm not obsessed with you for what you believe. However, I do call you out on things where I think you are playing loose and easy with the facts.

We could be talking about changing a transmission and you would find some way to bring my spiritual beliefs into it.

(11-11-2015 02:57 PM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(11-11-2015 02:54 PM)miko33 Wrote:  For the first part, no I actually do not obsess over your religious beliefs. Now I have been reading more about religion recently, so I've been focused more on that topic as of late. But no, I'm not obsessed with you for what you believe. However, I do call you out on things where I think you are playing loose and easy with the facts.

We would be talking about changing a transmission and you would fine some way to bring my spiritual beliefs into it.

Only if you would bring up something goofy along the lines of "this transmission is guaranteed for 70K miles or up to the moment you are raptured - whichever comes first"...

(11-11-2015 03:00 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Only if you would bring up something goofy along the lines of "this transmission is guaranteed for 70K miles or up to the moment you are raptured - whichever comes first"...

Thank you, you just illustrated my point again.

(11-11-2015 02:54 PM)miko33 Wrote:  .Which brings me to the second point. Whether it's intentional or not, you're a slippery character. You staked out a belief about the Great Pyramid, and you must admit that your first couple of posts were very vague and nebulous. Then you add more detail about a lost civilization and discuss various points about constants and mathematical expressions were "built into" the Pyramid. When called out on it, you backtrack and divorce yourself of any position - claiming that you're "just putting it out there" or that "there are many different theories...". Seriously dude, that's very disingenuous on your part.

If you felt they were too vague and nebulous for your comfort, then why didn't you just ask these things first? A have said MULTIPLE TIMES in this thread that I'm not really sure. All I tried to do was show you why I have some doubts.

You are the one being slippery here, and a lot of times you fall prey to not really reading my posts.

I never once said anything about the Egyptians being a proven fact, I simply question the current explanation and said I believe a previews civilization may have built the GP.

You so desperately want to argue with me about something that you assign all these words to me all on your own, ignoring the fact that I never said nor do I belive those things you stated.

This is pointless eric. I no longer have the strength to discuss the GP any further.

(11-11-2015 03:04 PM)miko33 Wrote:  This is pointless eric. I no longer have the strength to discuss the GP any further.

Just understand, I have told you what I believe MAY be true, and I can argue from that point of view, but that does not mean I am declaring these things are proven facts at all.

My opinion is my opinion.

You get too wrapped up in my personal opinions on unprovable, matters like God and the GP.

We have a currently accepted theory on the GP, but we are unable to fully prove it because it is at least 4500 years old. And there are some very hard questions "wrapped up" in there. (pun intended)

(11-11-2015 03:04 PM)miko33 Wrote:  This is pointless eric. I no longer have the strength to discuss the GP any further.

You have to forgive him. They've been beat down by the constant drone of the religious right in this country to believe that they're being prosecuted for their belief system...so naturally he feels that you're attacking everything he says because of his religion.