(09-05-2014 03:51 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  Actually, it's what they're doing academically that makes me think there's something going on. They're making all the right moves. If the AAU people agree, they're in.

Yup, 251-275 in the 2012/13 THE World University Rankings, 301-350 in the 2013/14. Zoom, zoom.

It seems likely that your rating of UConn's chances to taking a spot after somebody is booted from the AAU is distorted by relative familiarity with what UConn is doing combined with relative unfamiliarity with what is being done by both AAU members working to hold onto their spot and rivals with UConn for any spot that might show up.

Anyway, the actual sports has started up, so we probably should set this discussion to the side until after the Big Ten Spring sport conference championships.

(09-05-2014 04:10 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  It seems likely that your rating of UConn's chances to taking a spot after somebody is booted from the AAU is distorted by relative familiarity with what UConn is doing combined with relative unfamiliarity with what is being done by both AAU members working to hold onto their spot and rivals with UConn for any spot that might show up.

Delany already thought of that and had Nebraska booted.

Followed by:
http://today.uconn.edu/blog/2014/04/ucon...ic-vision/

Then he had Penn State hire away FSU's guy. All part of the plan...

And the 1 reason: in the BigTen GOT video (just posted by Goofus in this forum), UConn can easily be photoshopped in. That cannot be a coincidence.

(09-05-2014 06:02 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(09-05-2014 04:10 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  It seems likely that your rating of UConn's chances to taking a spot after somebody is booted from the AAU is distorted by relative familiarity with what UConn is doing combined with relative unfamiliarity with what is being done by both AAU members working to hold onto their spot and rivals with UConn for any spot that might show up.

Delany already thought of that and had Nebraska booted.

That spot's not open ... it been filled.

And, of course, Delany didn't have Nebraska booted, the AAU booted them ... since, after all, ag research doesn't count, since its not competitive grants, and the Med School is in UNO ... the Big Ten just hurried up and got them added before the final vote was taken.

Quote: And the 1 reason: in the BigTen GOT video (just posted by Goofus in this forum), UConn can easily be photoshopped in. That cannot be a coincidence.

That would seem to be a fairly pure example of confirmation bias, since only somebody already convinced that the BigTen was willing (let alone eager) to add UConn can even see the evidence you are seeing there.

You Ohio guys are no fun at all. Delany is a Sith Lord. Do you not see this?

(09-09-2014 08:28 AM)SeaBlue Wrote:  You Ohio guys are no fun at all. Delany is a Sith Lord. Do you not see this?

Delany like Slive and Swofford are former network contract lawyers and contract negotiators and when the conferences started hiring commissioners for the purpose of TV contract enhancement they got these guys on recommendation from the Foxes that wanted agents in the chicken coups. And since these guys have been hired the networks have been facilitated in acquiring more and more of the colleges rights in exchange for what the presidents wanted, more money. But none of these goobers are chess masters, Sith lords, or particularly powerful in their own right. What they are is well paid go betweens. And that's about it. God help us all!

(09-05-2014 04:10 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Yup, 251-275 in the 2012/13 THE World University Rankings, 301-350 in the 2013/14. Zoom, zoom.

Just for the sake of comparing rankings, http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...ies/page+6 has Syracuse and UConn tied at 58 with Purdue and Maryland at 62, and Rutgers, Minnesota and IU in the 70s. Other popular favorites, Mizzou and Nebraska, come in tied at #99.

(09-09-2014 08:34 AM)JRsec Wrote:  But none of these goobers are chess masters, Sith lords, or particularly powerful in their own right.

[/quote]

Uh-huh...

(09-05-2014 12:30 AM)jhawkmvp Wrote:  Then who will be the partner? All the schools of value are locked up with a GoR (which I think are not total obstacles to a move, but are still a hassle) unless they are from the SEC, and it is unlikely anyone will leave the SEC. Just curious to see who you think the B1G can pair with UConn within the next 3 years.

Kansas makes some sense. It would make the basketball people extremely happy.

Kansas also is one more step towards Texas, but it's hard to see a UConn pairing without a football power.

Outside of a historical football power, Virginia or VPI (not AAU) seem to be the leading candidates.

(09-09-2014 10:38 AM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(09-05-2014 04:10 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Yup, 251-275 in the 2012/13 THE World University Rankings, 301-350 in the 2013/14. Zoom, zoom.

Just for the sake of comparing rankings, http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...ies/page+6 has Syracuse and UConn tied at 58 with Purdue and Maryland at 62, and Rutgers, Minnesota and IU in the 70s. Other popular favorites, Mizzou and Nebraska, come in tied at #99.

So? Undergraduate buyer's guides rankings have zero relevance to this discussion, which is about academic prestige. By unfortunate necessity that goes with being an academic economist, I've known academic snobs for decades, and USNWR rankings don't factor into academic snobbery.

They do have some relevance to some other discussions ... one reason UMiami keeps getting into trouble with the NCAA is that they are such a good school at the undergraduate level, so the gap between normal UMiami levels of academic achievement and normal Big Time College Football Player levels of academic achievement is much larger at UMiami in almost all majors than it would be at a UTK or Georgia.

On the original topic, I happen to be in New Brunswick while waiting for a visa to be processed for a university job overseas, and I saw a "Big Ten New Jersey" T-shirt in Rutger's red while waiting at the bus stop at the New Brunswick train station for the bus to get to my motel.

(09-09-2014 10:38 AM)SeaBlue Wrote:  

(09-05-2014 04:10 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Yup, 251-275 in the 2012/13 THE World University Rankings, 301-350 in the 2013/14. Zoom, zoom.

Just for the sake of comparing rankings, http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreview...ies/page+6 has Syracuse and UConn tied at 58 with Purdue and Maryland at 62, and Rutgers, Minnesota and IU in the 70s. Other popular favorites, Mizzou and Nebraska, come in tied at #99.

Sure, but the US News rankings are completely gamed out by I'd venture to guess better than half of the schools. Does anyone really believe that Worcester Polytechnic Institute is a slightly better school than Rutgers? Clearly, Rutgers is not only not worse than Worcester Polytechnic its a much better institution. Does anyone really believe Pepperdine is as good as Tulane? The reality is in every one of these rankings that uses real, objective metrics nearly all of the Big Ten schools come out very highly ranked.

So regardless of some gaming there, UConn appears to pass the 'undergrad' test.

Then when you consider that they are their state's only flagship and the state is throwing $1.5 B(illion) into the hat (targeted mostly at graduate programs and research), I think what you have there is a future AAU member. No one that I am aware of comes close to that level of new investment.

http://today.uconn.edu/blog/2013/06/conn...niversity/

UConn Retains No. 19 Spot in U.S. News & World Report Rankings
From http://today.uconn.edu/blog/2014/09/ucon...-rankings/

Since 2000, when UConn was ranked No. 38 in the annual poll, the University has risen in the standings, thanks in part to factors like the academic strength of its freshman classes, the reduction of class sizes, the retention and graduation rates of its undergraduate students, and its reputation among peer institutions.

That reputation is likely to increase as a host of major projects help solidify UConn’s reputation as an elite national research institution. Two months ago, ground was broken on the first Next Generation Connecticut projects, which ultimately will revolutionize the entire University, expanding enrollment by roughly 6,580 undergraduates and vastly expanding UConn’s capabilities in STEM (science, technology, engineering, and mathematics) fields.

Turning briefly away from fantasy conference realignment discussion along the lines of "we thought we were joining a Power Conference when we started FBS football ... not a Go5 FBS conference ... Can we please join yours? I believe its likely we are going to join yours!!!!" ...

... I must say that from just brief glimpses of New Brunswick on my way back and forth to the train station to go up to midtown Manhattan to get to the Chinese consulate (deep breath) ... New Brunwsick & the Rutgers campus seems like a nice place.

Its just a coincidence I am here, because college towns with colleges right next to train stations make for relatively cheap weekday motels to perch waiting for bureaucracy to grind through, and Newark airport is a lot easier to get to than JFK ...

... but it seems a nice college town. And while I have caught a glimpse of the marketing with the "Big Ten New Jersey" signs at the train station platforms ... I have also seen several young fellows wearing "Big Ten New Jersey" t-shirts, so the marketing campaign has persuaded some people to put down their hard-earned to participate.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

(09-10-2014 01:36 PM)SeaBlue Wrote:  So regardless of some gaming there, UConn appears to pass the 'undergrad' test.

The point is, there is no "undergrad test", and pretending that there is make this sound like a supporter of an athletic program of a university trying to cobble together information about academic snobbery from whatever rankings are easiest to find on the intertubes.

Quote: Then when you consider that they are their state's only flagship and the state is throwing $1.5 B(illion) into the hat (targeted mostly at graduate programs and research), I think what you have there is a future AAU member. No one that I am aware of comes close to that level of new investment.

Of course, investment by the school is one issue, achieving success in competitive grants as a result of that investment is another.

Given how far behind UConn is starting from, a number of other schools with AAU ambitions don't require as much investment in order to raise their level. And, of course, there is no requirement that schools make you, in particular, aware of their investments or of their

Getting into the AAU is the harsher kind of grading on the curve, where the majority are automatically doomed to fail, and those who are not yet passing must not only compete against all of their peers, but also compete against those bumping against the bottom of the curve, fighting to stay on the passing side of the line.

And the game is rigged in favor of the incumbents, since an ambitious school can invest in developing new research programs ... only to see the leader of the research team parlay that into a position at a more prestigious University, with the next phase of that research funding then going to that University that poached the promising researcher. Which is part of how the rich stay rich.

(09-10-2014 08:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Which is part of how the rich stay rich.

Perhaps, but now the AAU is accountable to the most feared overseers of all, the internet. Specifically, the conference realignment internet message boards.

Once a proud, secret society, they've been reduced to realignment puppets. From what I understand, they read this board daily for confirmation of their self-worth and position in society.

(09-10-2014 08:53 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  Turning briefly away from fantasy conference realignment discussion along the lines of "we thought we were joining a Power Conference when we started FBS football ... not a Go5 FBS conference ... Can we please join yours? I believe its likely we are going to join yours!!!!" ...

... I must say that from just brief glimpses of New Brunswick on my way back and forth to the train station to go up to midtown Manhattan to get to the Chinese consulate (deep breath) ... New Brunwsick & the Rutgers campus seems like a nice place.

Its just a coincidence I am here, because college towns with colleges right next to train stations make for relatively cheap weekday motels to perch waiting for bureaucracy to grind through, and Newark airport is a lot easier to get to than JFK ...

... but it seems a nice college town. And while I have caught a glimpse of the marketing with the "Big Ten New Jersey" signs at the train station platforms ... I have also seen several young fellows wearing "Big Ten New Jersey" t-shirts, so the marketing campaign has persuaded some people to put down their hard-earned to participate.

There is a good amount of building going on on the College Ave Campus as well. If they could just replace ugly Scott Hall or somehow make the facade look nicer I'd be even happier with the physical plant's plans.

Reviving this fantasy thread in the light of the recent issues surrounding the ACC network plans. If something does cause that conference to fall apart I think the Big Ten should charge harder in the next opportunity and go after every AAU school + 1 more:

GT, UNC, Duke, UVA, Pitt, Syracuse

I know the arguments about redundancy wrt to Pitt. However, this is a conference that is serious about academic snobbery. Since the AAU is as much a political club it might make some sense for the Big Ten to accumulate as many institutions as they can without cutting too much into athletic revenues. Also, the Olympic sports would be better monetized with the media and communications assets available.

Having a real presence from NY to GA would be a massive get. Not saying it would happen but the thought of it is nice.

(10-31-2015 02:55 AM)Transic_nyc Wrote:  Reviving this fantasy thread in the light of the recent issues surrounding the ACC network plans. If something does cause that conference to fall apart I think the Big Ten should charge harder in the next opportunity and go after every AAU school + 1 more:

GT, UNC, Duke, UVA, Pitt, Syracuse

I know the arguments about redundancy wrt to Pitt. However, this is a conference that is serious about academic snobbery. Since the AAU is as much a political club it might make some sense for the Big Ten to accumulate as many institutions as they can without cutting too much into athletic revenues. Also, the Olympic sports would be better monetized with the media and communications assets available.

Having a real presence from NY to GA would be a massive get. Not saying it would happen but the thought of it is nice.

Well Syracuse isn't really going to give the B1G any extra presence in NY football-wise. Basketball-wise yes, but no one's given a damn about Syracuse football since McNabb went to the NFL. Additionally its essentially duplicating the footprint like Pitt does.

If the B1G really wants to make big moves, UNC/Duke as a combo (due to their amazing basketball rivalry) or even just Duke due to being such an academic and athletic powerhouse, Georgia Tech to get into the Atlanta tv market, Florida State, Texas, Oklahoma.

I think the Big Ten needs to expand one of two ways (and extremely unlikely both): either with Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and some other friends or with North Carolina, Virginia, and some other friends (depending on size of the conference). I don't think you can get who you want and stop at 16 schools. I think it will take at least four to get the big fish. However, I wouldn't sign up UNC until I knew the final outcome of their academic scandal. And I also wouldn't let anyone not be an equal member (looking at you Texas).

In my almost* ideal world, I would expand down the east coast, grabbing Virginia and UNC and stopping at 16.

(*My ideal world consists of my alma mater Liberty University joining the Big Ten but that's as likely as the Kardashians erasing themselves from history and moving to a remote island and never being heard from again.)

I think a better ploy would be to add Texas and Oklahoma and stopping at 16. The conference would be much more competitively balanced and the Texas market would keep the Big Ten relevant nationally (not that they aren't already but with demographics shifting, the classic Big Ten Midwest is growing slower than the South, though anything can change). I'm just east-coast biased and I don't think Texas will play nice.

I am intrigued to see what would happen if NC State and Virginia Tech were invited rather than UNC and Virginia. They are bigger schools with arguably bigger fan bases (at least for football). They aren't academic powerhouses so they will likely never be invited but they have a lot of athletic potential if they could separate from the shadow of their big brother in state rival much like Texas A&M has once they left Texas in the dust.

Virginia Tech is well qualified academically, other than the biggie: not AAU.

(10-31-2015 08:26 PM)GE and MTS Wrote:  I think the Big Ten needs to expand one of two ways (and extremely unlikely both): either with Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, and some other friends or with North Carolina, Virginia, and some other friends (depending on size of the conference). I don't think you can get who you want and stop at 16 schools. I think it will take at least four to get the big fish. However, I wouldn't sign up UNC until I knew the final outcome of their academic scandal. And I also wouldn't let anyone not be an equal member (looking at you Texas).

In my almost* ideal world, I would expand down the east coast, grabbing Virginia and UNC and stopping at 16.

(*My ideal world consists of my alma mater Liberty University joining the Big Ten but that's as likely as the Kardashians erasing themselves from history and moving to a remote island and never being heard from again.)

I think a better ploy would be to add Texas and Oklahoma and stopping at 16. The conference would be much more competitively balanced and the Texas market would keep the Big Ten relevant nationally (not that they aren't already but with demographics shifting, the classic Big Ten Midwest is growing slower than the South, though anything can change). I'm just east-coast biased and I don't think Texas will play nice.

I am intrigued to see what would happen if NC State and Virginia Tech were invited rather than UNC and Virginia. They are bigger schools with arguably bigger fan bases (at least for football). They aren't academic powerhouses so they will likely never be invited but they have a lot of athletic potential if they could separate from the shadow of their big brother in state rival much like Texas A&M has once they left Texas in the dust.

The B1G has said they had a demographic problem prior to the Rutgers/Maryland additions. That is now solved.

The question is, who does Delany want next?

I think almost everyone could agree that Virginia would be choice #1 (of the schools with a realistic shot).

What I'm not sure of is whether the B1G wants to add more NE schools. My thoughts are "probably not". Aside from UCONN's qualification problems currently, the state simply doesn't move the needle much. Would only be a #16 add if they got a huge get for #15....which is both good and bad. Because with one big fish reeled in, it would be much more likely that another would come with them...similar to Rutgers and Maryland.

There also becomes the angst among some of the western schools that the conference is losing its "midwest" flavor. That is where a school like Kansas comes into play, if the West is the next expansion. Then how far West and south do they go?

I'm sorry to "secondary" schools...you aren't going to be invited to the B1G. Va Tech, NC State, etc.....sorry, but you are out. B1G wants top notch brands in each state, not a second tier.

Virginia is the key cog.

Virginia, Virginia Tech, UNC, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Texax, and Georgia Tech already declined the B1G. At this point, the conference's best bet is to wait for UConn to get AAU and the Big XII to implode to get Kansas (an AAU school can be added). Yes, the football brand takes a small hit (especially Kansas), but UConn is actually about a 6-win program in its time in FBS, but Ohio St., Michigan St., Michigan, Penn St., etc. need a few cupcake wins now the conference slate will be going to 9 games (without FCS games). As much as I hate to say this as a UConn fan, but the B1G has no incentive to move quite yet. However, that may change in the next 2-3 years with scenarios above mentioned.