(10-26-2015 03:34 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(10-26-2015 02:50 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-26-2015 01:21 PM)South Carolina Duke Wrote:  Delaware us not going anywhere.

Madison is looking beyond SB for opportunities.

You can't go directly into the AAC. No one from the MAC is going to leave.

That leaves the CUSA, which is at 14 ... and the CFP only incentivizes up to 12 members. If AAC loses two and takes two from the CUSA, there may be no drive within the conference to get back up to 14.

Toledo and NIU have long had cases for leaving and many argue are due for a bigger, better conference

I've heard rumblings of Buffalo to AAC or Ohio to CUSA

Don't think in absolutes with college football

Like the sacrosanct 12 team G5 payout rule. That was only put into place 2 year ago and can be changed anytime.

If Army calls the AAC could make a grab for 14 and the MWC could match by taking UTEP/UTSA from CUSA. Then with CUSA, MWC, AAC all at 14 they can change the G5 payout rule to 14 teams.

Part of the problem the 12 all sport MAC school have in leaving the MAC is there was no present value. The TV hasn't been worth any money up until recently. That is changing under the new contract. The MAC doesn't have high exit fees which makes its membership more susceptible to a raid in the future.

If the AAC lost Houston/Cincinnati I could see a backfill with NIU/Toledo. The MAC in that case could return to 12 with Illinois St/Southern Illinois kicking the MVC in the nuts in the process.

Ohio from what I understand won't join another conference unless Marshall is included. That means no AAC without Marshall. As to CUSA, I think Ohio is fine with a conference that included Charlotte, ODU, FAU/FIU to go with Marshall but the question is will they be in CUSA 10-15 years in the future?

I suppose if CUSA decided to cut into the MVC focusing on basketball power by adding Missouri State and Ohio from the MAC that it could be appealing to join. Football is less important than basketball in the G5 realignment conversation, IMO.

(10-27-2015 08:15 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(10-27-2015 01:50 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-27-2015 11:54 AM)TheNealT Wrote:  Northern Iowa cut baseball a few years ago to save money... they are now ready to go FBS?

I agree. They have the facilities and the fan support in football and bball ... but I think financially they might not be able to do 80+ FCOA scholarships in football, plus upgrades to the coaching salaries (up to MAC level).

The majority of reported scholarship costs are soft money, but FCOA, required facilities upgrades, and competitive coaching salaries in FB are indeed a real increase in spending by the school. Some Sunbelt schools have reported AD expenses of around $20m, and a number of MAC schools reported AD expenses of $23m-$26m, so Indiana State, with a reported $13m in AD expenses would seem to require a bigger lift than N Iowa, with reported $18m, (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/)

The difference between the MAC and MVC is close to 5 million more in revenues but there is a huge facility gap required at some of those schools to be acceptable for the MAC.

UMass had to rent an NFL stadium to get into the MAC. I guess Indiana State could sign a 5 year agreement with the Colts stadium in Indianapolis until their facilities are up to par.

(10-28-2015 12:16 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If the AAC lost Houston/Cincinnati I could see a backfill with NIU/Toledo.

Hard to see them dropping down to one Texas team so long as there are some viable options out there. Rice is a former SWC member and would be a natural peer with SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa. UTSA may have a higher ceiling in football.

(10-27-2015 08:15 PM)BruceMcF Wrote:  

(10-27-2015 01:50 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-27-2015 11:54 AM)TheNealT Wrote:  Northern Iowa cut baseball a few years ago to save money... they are now ready to go FBS?

I agree. They have the facilities and the fan support in football and bball ... but I think financially they might not be able to do 80+ FCOA scholarships in football, plus upgrades to the coaching salaries (up to MAC level).

The majority of reported scholarship costs are soft money, but FCOA, required facilities upgrades, and competitive coaching salaries in FB are indeed a real increase in spending by the school. Some Sunbelt schools have reported AD expenses of around $20m, and a number of MAC schools reported AD expenses of $23m-$26m, so Indiana State, with a reported $13m in AD expenses would seem to require a bigger lift than N Iowa, with reported $18m, (http://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/finances/)

Some MVFC schools like Illinois St and Southern Illinois are already at the level of lower spending MAC schools..

And Indiana St and Missouri St are both way off that mark..

An easy, but by no means fool-proof, method would be to compare the average and highest salary in the MAC and MVFC/MVC for football head coach and men's basketball head coach.

I'm guessing NDSU has the highest MVFC football. No idea on MVC bball. No idea on the MAC.

MVFC Football Coaches
Mark Farley - Northern Iowa, $300,000
Dave Steckel - Missouri State $270,000
Brock Spack - Illinois State, $268,000
Chris Klieman - North Dakota State, $261,000
Dale Lennon - Southern Illinois, $221,000
Eric Wolford - Youngstown State, $215,000
Bob Nielson - Western Illinois, $207,000
John Stiegelmeier - South Dakota State, $190,000
Mike Sanford - Indiana State, $180,000
Joe Glenn - South Dakota, $131,000

MVC Basketball Coaches
Gregg Marshall - Wichita State, $1,850,000
Geno Ford - Bradley, $750,000
Ben Jacobson - Northern Iowa, $600,000
Dan Mueller - Illinois State, $401,200
Ray Giacoletti - Drake, $400,000
Paul Lusk - Missouri State, $396,000
Barry Hinson - Southern Illinois, $300,000
Greg Lansing - Indiana State, $262,000
Marty Simmons - Evansville, $200,000

(10-28-2015 12:31 PM)CenterSquarEd Wrote:  

(10-28-2015 12:16 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  If the AAC lost Houston/Cincinnati I could see a backfill with NIU/Toledo.

Hard to see them dropping down to one Texas team so long as there are some viable options out there. Rice is a former SWC member and would be a natural peer with SMU, Tulane, and Tulsa. UTSA may have a higher ceiling in football.

UTSA is still a very new program at the G5 athletic level. They were fortunate to find a spot in CUSA. Texas State wasn't as fortunate.

Rice would get support from the private schools in the AAC, the entrance and exit fees wouldn't be an issue and they have a 40,000 seat stadium. Large Houston market.

A lot will depend on how the AAC and CUSA perform over the next couple of years and the next TV deals for those two conferences. Its looking like the AAC will be able to elevate and pull any school they want from the MAC or CUSA.

I suppose of the AAC goes for Buffalo-Rice (spicy!) that would compromise the MAC and might push Ohio to reconsider CUSA. CUSA would be more desirable for Ohio with one less western school in Rice and the MAC less desirable without Buffalo.

CUSA East: Ohio, Marshall, ODU, Charlotte, WKU, FAU, FIU
CUSA West: UAB, MTSU, LaTech, So.Miss, UNT, UTEP, UTSA

With the CUSA exit fees high, Ohio/Marshall would stay anchored to CUSA. The biggest flight risks would be ODU to the AAC and UTEP to MWC on the edge of the conferences.

MAC Football Coaches
1. Don Treadwell (fired)/interim Mike Bath/Chuck Martin, Miami - $684,284
2. Matt Campbell, Toledo - $635,701
3. Pete Lembo, Ball State - $562,377
4. Terry Bowden, Akron - $554,523
5. Frank Solich, Ohio - $549,639
6. Dave Clawson (hired by Wake Forest)/Dino Babers, Bowling Green - $545,762
7. P.J. Fleck, Western Michigan - $536,854
8. Rod Carey, NIU - $469,700
9. Dan Enos (left to become Arkansas OC), Central Michigan - $458,013
10. Jeff Quinn, Buffalo - $398,317
11. Paul Haynes, Kent State - $388,226
12. Ron English (fired for recorded rant)/Chris Creighton Eastern Michigan - $305,444

MAC Basketball Coaches
1. Jim Christian, Ohio (left for Boston College in April 2014)/Saul Phillips - $751,934
2. Keith Dambrot, Akron - $660,208
3. Todd Kowalczyk, Toledo - $647,741
4. Steve Hawkins, Western Michigan - $544,659
5. Keno Davis, Central Michigan - $383,562
6. James Whitford, Ball State - $344,360
7. John Cooper, Miami - $339,837
8. Louis Orr (fired)/Chris Jans, Bowling Green - $338,146
9. Bobby Hurley, Buffalo - $319,264
10. Mark Montgomery, NIU - $316,140
11. Rob Murphy, Eastern Michigan - $306,476
12. Rob Senderoff, Kent State - $271,511

http://www.chicagofootball.com/2015/03/2...t/a8ax3qd/

Thank you very much, MSB.

It's somewhat like I thought. Even though a lot of MVFC fans, and FCS fans in general, think the top of FCS is the same thing as the bottom of FBS, even the best FCS program in the nation would be last in head coach salary in the MAC.

In bball, it's obvious Wichita St is head and shoulders above the MAC (and the rest of the MVC). But it does seem that IL St. and MO St. bball is right in the middle of the pack for MAC levels. In terms of coaching salaries.

(10-29-2015 09:31 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Thank you very much, MSB.

It's somewhat like I thought. Even though a lot of MVFC fans, and FCS fans in general, think the top of FCS is the same thing as the bottom of FBS, even the best FCS program in the nation would be last in head coach salary in the MAC.

In bball, it's obvious Wichita St is head and shoulders above the MAC (and the rest of the MVC). But it does seem that IL St. and MO St. bball is right in the middle of the pack for MAC levels. In terms of coaching salaries.

The top teams in the MVFC are better than the bottom half of the MAC in football.. and the top teams in the MVC are better than the top teams in the MAC in basketball..

(10-29-2015 09:48 AM)TheNealT Wrote:  

(10-29-2015 09:31 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Thank you very much, MSB.

It's somewhat like I thought. Even though a lot of MVFC fans, and FCS fans in general, think the top of FCS is the same thing as the bottom of FBS, even the best FCS program in the nation would be last in head coach salary in the MAC.

In bball, it's obvious Wichita St is head and shoulders above the MAC (and the rest of the MVC). But it does seem that IL St. and MO St. bball is right in the middle of the pack for MAC levels. In terms of coaching salaries.

The top teams in the MVFC are better than the bottom half of the MAC in football.. and the top teams in the MVC are better than the top teams in the MAC in basketball..

Even if that is true, it is well known and understood that on-field/on-court performance has nothing to do with realignment/expansion.

Why on earth would the American add Buffalo and Rice?

UMass would be first on the list, IMO if Army decided to come in or if they lost someone.

Rice is a non starter with Houston in the league...and at this point the American would likely just lose the Houston market if Houston left and go somewhere else. American already has their Rice type team in Tulane.

Watch what happens in Charlotte and at Old Dominion as their football stadiums take shape...that may point you in the direction where the American would go (after UMass/Army) assuming nothing happens with the Mountain West. UTEP seems to be a shoe-in to me if the MWC needs another team.

The model in the American is a 40K stadium if you are public...smaller ONLY if you are private. Temple may end up being the exception with an OCS, but they will have to ability to play the Penn States and Notre Dames at the Linc.

(10-29-2015 09:59 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-29-2015 09:48 AM)TheNealT Wrote:  

(10-29-2015 09:31 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Thank you very much, MSB.

It's somewhat like I thought. Even though a lot of MVFC fans, and FCS fans in general, think the top of FCS is the same thing as the bottom of FBS, even the best FCS program in the nation would be last in head coach salary in the MAC.

In bball, it's obvious Wichita St is head and shoulders above the MAC (and the rest of the MVC). But it does seem that IL St. and MO St. bball is right in the middle of the pack for MAC levels. In terms of coaching salaries.

The top teams in the MVFC are better than the bottom half of the MAC in football.. and the top teams in the MVC are better than the top teams in the MAC in basketball..

Even if that is true, it is well known and understood that on-field/on-court performance has nothing to do with realignment/expansion.

Absolutely.. fan support, academics and financial standing of the school all come into play..

(10-29-2015 10:43 AM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Why on earth would the American add Buffalo and Rice?

UMass would be first on the list, IMO if Army decided to come in or if they lost someone.

Rice is a non starter with Houston in the league...and at this point the American would likely just lose the Houston market if Houston left and go somewhere else. American already has their Rice type team in Tulane.

Watch what happens in Charlotte and at Old Dominion as their football stadiums take shape...that may point you in the direction where the American would go (after UMass/Army) assuming nothing happens with the Mountain West. UTEP seems to be a shoe-in to me if the MWC needs another team.

The model in the American is a 40K stadium if you are public...smaller ONLY if you are private. Temple may end up being the exception with an OCS, but they will have to ability to play the Penn States and Notre Dames at the Linc.

If MWC have to replace schools? I could see these schools could get the called up.
Long Beach State if the AD was serious about football and joining the MWC. This would give MWC the LA market.
Wichita State been mentioned that they were in talks to add football. MWC bylaws is that all schools must play football. MWC does have a multi-bid league which would be a step up for Wichita State.
UTEP
Eastern Washington Spokane market.
Portland State
Sacramento State
West Texas A&M still in distance with the Colorado schools.
Houston
SMU
Tulsa
Montana
North Dakota State
In the future. if Colorado State-Pueblo upgrades from D2 to FCS than to FBS? They could give MWC a southern footprint in the state if they lose both Colorado State and Air Force.

Schools MWC do not want.
Weber State duplicate Salt Lake City Market.
Southern Utah is in the same area as UNLV.
Northern Colorado already have 2 FBS schools in the Denver area in Colorado State and Colorado and a team in Colorado Springs.
Idaho too small, and no value to add.
Idaho State is in a bigger populated area, but the same issues as Idaho.
New Mexico State as long as New Mexico and UTEP blocking them to join.

Northern Arizona could be a possibility, but they do not have the facilities to expand their dome.

(10-29-2015 09:31 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Thank you very much, MSB.

It's somewhat like I thought. Even though a lot of MVFC fans, and FCS fans in general, think the top of FCS is the same thing as the bottom of FBS, even the best FCS program in the nation would be last in head coach salary in the MAC.

In bball, it's obvious Wichita St is head and shoulders above the MAC (and the rest of the MVC). But it does seem that IL St. and MO St. bball is right in the middle of the pack for MAC levels. In terms of coaching salaries.

Both MSU and ISU bball coaches also were first time head coaches, salary is in line for that. We offered Cuonzo Martin up to $750,000 when he bolted to Tennessee.

(10-29-2015 12:56 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(10-29-2015 09:31 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Thank you very much, MSB.

It's somewhat like I thought. Even though a lot of MVFC fans, and FCS fans in general, think the top of FCS is the same thing as the bottom of FBS, even the best FCS program in the nation would be last in head coach salary in the MAC.

In bball, it's obvious Wichita St is head and shoulders above the MAC (and the rest of the MVC). But it does seem that IL St. and MO St. bball is right in the middle of the pack for MAC levels. In terms of coaching salaries.

Both MSU and ISU bball coaches also were first time head coaches, salary is in line for that. We offered Cuonzo Martin up to $750,000 when he bolted to Tennessee.

Fair enough. If MO St and IL St were/are willing to pay $750k salary for head men's bball coach, that would put them at the top of the MAC.


What's your take on that? If MAC offered full membership (say they were down to 11), would MO St bite?

Might be easier to make the big dance from the MAC than the MVC (is the flip side of the coin). But bball revenue and attendance might take a hit.

Best option is for MVFC schools to jump to FBS together and the MVC remains intact, that way basketball and baseball don't need to downgrade to the MAC..

Will that ever happen? Doubtful..

(10-29-2015 01:54 PM)TheNealT Wrote:  Best option is for MVFC schools to jump to FBS together and the MVC remains intact, that way basketball and baseball don't need to downgrade to the MAC..

Will that ever happen? Doubtful..

Your other problem is... basketball and baseball shouldn't be why you stay FCS. They are non revenue sports that the majority of sports fans don't follow. Football is and always will be king in college sports, so that should be why you would want to move up. You may think the gap between MVC and MAC football is small, but salaries and national stigma say otherwise. Football is why schools move around, you think TCU jumped to P5 because of basketball or Louisville for baseball? Football>>>>>>>all. Yes i get that academics play a part, but once you have been labeled a high research or very high research university it's all kind of a wash unless you get AAU accreditation. Attendance is even starting to matter less with TV markets rising and the at home gameday experience becoming more emphasized.

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(10-29-2015 01:15 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-29-2015 12:56 PM)MissouriStateBears Wrote:  

(10-29-2015 09:31 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Thank you very much, MSB.

It's somewhat like I thought. Even though a lot of MVFC fans, and FCS fans in general, think the top of FCS is the same thing as the bottom of FBS, even the best FCS program in the nation would be last in head coach salary in the MAC.

In bball, it's obvious Wichita St is head and shoulders above the MAC (and the rest of the MVC). But it does seem that IL St. and MO St. bball is right in the middle of the pack for MAC levels. In terms of coaching salaries.

Both MSU and ISU bball coaches also were first time head coaches, salary is in line for that. We offered Cuonzo Martin up to $750,000 when he bolted to Tennessee.

Fair enough. If MO St and IL St were/are willing to pay $750k salary for head men's bball coach, that would put them at the top of the MAC.


What's your take on that? If MAC offered full membership (say they were down to 11), would MO St bite?

Might be easier to make the big dance from the MAC than the MVC (is the flip side of the coin). But bball revenue and attendance might take a hit.

I would say so. Sun Belt is the better fit, but the MAC would be easier to swallow for the basketball only fan base to some degree.

(10-29-2015 02:16 PM)Stay Cool Wrote:  

(10-29-2015 01:54 PM)TheNealT Wrote:  Best option is for MVFC schools to jump to FBS together and the MVC remains intact, that way basketball and baseball don't need to downgrade to the MAC..

Will that ever happen? Doubtful..

Your other problem is... basketball and baseball shouldn't be why you stay FCS. They are non revenue sports that the majority of sports fans don't follow. Football is and always will be king in college sports, so that should be why you would want to move up. You may think the gap between MVC and MAC football is small, but salaries and national stigma say otherwise. Football is why schools move around, you think TCU jumped to P5 because of basketball or Louisville for baseball? Football>>>>>>>all. Yes i get that academics play a part, but once you have been labeled a high research or very high research university it's all kind of a wash unless you get AAU accreditation. Attendance is even starting to matter less with TV markets rising and the at home gameday experience becoming more emphasized.

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Basketball is a non revenue sport???

And be careful saying football will always be the king in college sports..