(10-14-2015 02:57 PM)GrayBeard Wrote: These people willing to attack civilians like that are EVIL. Must be something in the islamic water these days.
It has everything to do with too many people of different deep seeded religious and political affiliations living in too close proximity. Especially when one faction is saying their God promised them a plot of land only for them. It's not difficult to see why there is hostility.
And... waiting to hear the idiocy of the other faction.
Why even try, won't get it from this one.
Tom is also glossing over the fact that the Quran also says Isreal is not for the Jews and that outside of Egypt and Syria (Jordan?) no Muslim nation recognizes Israel's right to exist.
(10-14-2015 02:57 PM)GrayBeard Wrote: These people willing to attack civilians like that are EVIL. Must be something in the islamic water these days.
It has everything to do with too many people of different deep seeded religious and political affiliations living in too close proximity. Especially when one faction is saying their God promised them a plot of land only for them. It's not difficult to see why there is hostility.
And... waiting to hear the idiocy of the other faction.
Why even try, won't get it from this one.
Tom is also glossing over the fact that the Quran also says Isreal is not for the Jews and that outside of Egypt and Syria (Jordan?) no Muslim nation recognizes Israel's right to exist.
But that's Tom being Tom..
Quote:Viewing the Jewish return to Israel as a Western invasion and Zionists as recent colonizers is new. It has no basis in authentic Islamic faith. According to the Qur'an, no person, people or religious community can claim a permanent right of possession over any territory. The Earth belongs exclusively to God, and He is free to entrust sovereignty over land to whomever He likes for whatever time period that He chooses.
(10-16-2015 12:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Violence isn't the answer here....
But its completely predictable....
People who have peaceful avenues for EQUITABLE resolution of grievances don't resort to violence.
---
Ok, once you stop the violence... how do you stop it from coming back?
And no, the racist fantasy of pushing all the Arabs into the sea or into Jordan isn't going to ever happen.
---
So, why do we not comment on this? Because its sad and there's nothing that can be done to stop it so long as Bibi is in power.
Where is that Israeli position? Push all the Arabs in to the sea? I think you have the Arabs and Israeli's juxtaposed .
What's racist about Palestinians living in Jordan?
Your key word is 'Equitable'. It's sort of difficult to find an equitable solution when one of the sides refuses to acknowledge the right of the other to even exist.
Palestinians are and have been used as pawns by their Arab brothers for a long time. That situation is what is tragic. The average Palestinian has a better chance to make a life for themselves in Israel than anywhere else in the World
(10-16-2015 12:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: People who have peaceful avenues for EQUITABLE resolution of grievances don't resort to violence.
That's a very childish thing to say. First and foremost because two people seldom agree on what is equitable. The Palestinians don't think Israel should exist. Israel once offered them a majority of what they wanted and the Palestinians did not believe that was "Equitable".
Quote:So, why do we not comment on this? Because its sad and there's nothing that can be done to stop it so long as Bibi is in power.
This has been going on for almost 100 years. How old is Bibi?
(10-16-2015 12:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Violence isn't the answer here....
But its completely predictable....
People who have peaceful avenues for EQUITABLE resolution of grievances don't resort to violence.
---
Ok, once you stop the violence... how do you stop it from coming back?
And no, the racist fantasy of pushing all the Arabs into the sea or into Jordan isn't going to ever happen.
---
So, why do we not comment on this? Because its sad and there's nothing that can be done to stop it so long as Bibi is in power.
Yes indeed, Bibi is the problem.
Not the young men, intentionally kept impoverished by their "leaders" while they line their pockets ALL. DAY. LONG., running around with machetes and knives hacking up 70 year old women.
(10-16-2015 12:18 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: People who have peaceful avenues for EQUITABLE resolution of grievances don't resort to violence.
That's a very childish thing to say. First and foremost because two people seldom agree on what is equitable. The Palestinians don't think Israel should exist. Israel once offered them a majority of what they wanted and the Palestinians did not believe that was "Equitable".
Quote:So, why do we not comment on this? Because its sad and there's nothing that can be done to stop it so long as Bibi is in power.
This has been going on for almost 100 years. How old is Bibi?
Bibi is offering them an internment camp/jail in the West Bank where they can't leave, vote for a government that has control, have a decent job, or interact with the world.
Violence isn't the answer, but more Jewish settlements in East J'lem and the West Bank aren't the answer either.
(10-14-2015 02:57 PM)GrayBeard Wrote: These people willing to attack civilians like that are EVIL. Must be something in the islamic water these days.
It has everything to do with too many people of different deep seeded religious and political affiliations living in too close proximity. Especially when one faction is saying their God promised them a plot of land only for them. It's not difficult to see why there is hostility.
And... waiting to hear the idiocy of the other faction.
Why even try, won't get it from this one.
Tom is also glossing over the fact that the Quran also says Isreal is not for the Jews and that outside of Egypt and Syria (Jordan?) no Muslim nation recognizes Israel's right to exist.
But that's Tom being Tom..
Quite interesting that in the Bible, any Canaanites that turned away from their corrupt, child-sacrifice society were allowed to live with the Israelites. Israel has had a long history of openness.
(10-16-2015 01:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Bibi is offering them an internment camp/jail in the West Bank where they can't leave, vote for a government that has control, have a decent job, or interact with the world.
Violence isn't the answer, but more Jewish settlements in East J'lem and the West Bank aren't the answer either.
What on Earth are you talking about. Palestinians have had a right to vote since 94. Israel doesn't have an open border but Palestinians are welcome to come and go. Yes there are check points, and for good reason. When are these check points closed? Usually after attacks etc. THAT is what keep Palestinians poor and impoverished. (Even so, they are treated better than when they go elsewhere in the world to work.)
Bibi doesn't blow up holy sights or stab civilians. That would be those paragons of virtues and Human Rights, Hamas. Hamas was the entity who torpedoed the Palestinians latest attempt at Statehood. Not Bibi.
If the Israeli Government just had to deal Fatah, things would be a lot different, and better, for the Palestinians. Bibi, who is not perfect, is not the problem. Hamas, and where does their funding come from! is the problem.
(10-16-2015 01:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Bibi is offering them an internment camp/jail in the West Bank where they can't leave, vote for a government that has control, have a decent job, or interact with the world.
Violence isn't the answer, but more Jewish settlements in East J'lem and the West Bank aren't the answer either.
What on Earth are you talking about. Palestinians have had a right to vote since 94. Israel doesn't have an open border but Palestinians are welcome to come and go. Yes there are check points, and for good reason. When are these check points closed? Usually after attacks etc. THAT is what keep Palestinians poor and impoverished. (Even so, they are treated better than when they go elsewhere in the world to work.)
Bibi doesn't blow up holy sights or stab civilians. That would be those paragons of virtues and Human Rights, Hamas. Hamas was the entity who torpedoed the Palestinians latest attempt at Statehood. Not Bibi.
If the Israeli Government just had to deal Fatah, things would be a lot different, and better, for the Palestinians. Bibi, who is not perfect, is not the problem. Hamas, and where does their funding come from! is the problem.
A vote only counts if it is for a government that controls its own borders can allow for egress and ingress and controls the land.
No Palestinian has that vote. Unless they are voting in Israel. Or Israel actually provides true independence to the PA
Voting for the 'prisoners representative' in the jailcamp really isn't a vote for power. And what's left to the Palestinians is pretty much an open air jail. No right to move in or out. Pretty much no economic activity allowed.
Again, violence isn't the answer...but what would you say to a 20 year old Palestinian that is locked up, presumably for life in the jailcamp that is the PA zone...as to why he should stop throwing stones?
(10-16-2015 01:24 PM)Tom in Lazybrook Wrote: Bibi is offering them an internment camp/jail in the West Bank where they can't leave, vote for a government that has control, have a decent job, or interact with the world.
Violence isn't the answer, but more Jewish settlements in East J'lem and the West Bank aren't the answer either.
What on Earth are you talking about. Palestinians have had a right to vote since 94. Israel doesn't have an open border but Palestinians are welcome to come and go. Yes there are check points, and for good reason. When are these check points closed? Usually after attacks etc. THAT is what keep Palestinians poor and impoverished. (Even so, they are treated better than when they go elsewhere in the world to work.)
Bibi doesn't blow up holy sights or stab civilians. That would be those paragons of virtues and Human Rights, Hamas. Hamas was the entity who torpedoed the Palestinians latest attempt at Statehood. Not Bibi.
If the Israeli Government just had to deal Fatah, things would be a lot different, and better, for the Palestinians. Bibi, who is not perfect, is not the problem. Hamas, and where does their funding come from! is the problem.
A vote only counts if it is for a government that controls its own borders can allow for egress and ingress and controls the land.
No Palestinian has that vote. Unless they are voting in Israel. Or Israel actually provides true independence to the PA
Voting for the 'prisoners representative' in the jailcamp really isn't a vote for power. And what's left to the Palestinians is pretty much an open air jail. No right to move in or out. Pretty much no economic activity allowed.
Again, violence isn't the answer...but what would you say to a 20 year old Palestinian that is locked up, presumably for life in the jailcamp that is the PA zone...as to why he should stop throwing stones?
The PA has pissed Billions away. The International Community was very willing, especially in the early and mid 90's, to pump money to make the PA lands a viable concern. Gaza was slated by investors for an International Airport and increased Port capacity. The PA lands are not a 'Prison' What it has become has more to do with the PA leadership than Bibi. What would I tell that 20 year old? I'd say question your leadership. I would say 'Your leaders have had the same mind set for 60 years and where has it gotten you? The closest you've gotten to Peace, is when you work with those your leaders tell you to hate"
