I know this guy is not the first advocate of such a thing, and won't be the last. I'm personally am somewhat conflicted about the corrupting influence it's becoming on our universities and young people . Know people will say , hey it's been this way for a long time ,so why sweat it. But it seems to me the tail is wagging the dog. There has to be a better way to do things and make the sport more pristine ethically and in line with above board principals. I know they'r going to be programs who are not going to play by the rules. So, let those programs create their own conference (since they like to do the bag man stuff and been paying player for quite sometime now). Two separate divisions one for the kids (get paid professionally) who are there to get to the next level and not really concerned about a education or degree. A 2nd division for those who are their for education and degree and maybe a pro career if possible but the education comes first. There will be a disparity we all know, but there is one all ready that exist, we all know, but this arrangement would be more transparent than opaque.

LINK

Whatever the answer is, to the supposed problem, there is one thing that absolutely must not be allowed:

let student-athletes become athlete-employees.

Sure, if one wants to see CFB morph into minor league baseball and most universities return to Rose-Hulman levels of obscurity.

(10-13-2015 11:34 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Whatever the answer is, to the supposed problem...

The problem is our society isn't broken. It was built this way.

That's why we always end up with problems like these, because our society's ordering of priorities is totally out of whack, and no matter what we're trying to do, somebody somewhere is getting screwed. It's a fact of life that sucks.

(10-13-2015 12:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  ... no matter what we're trying to do, somebody somewhere is getting screwed. It's a fact of life that sucks.

Especially when you are the screwee instead of the screwer.

Most universities subsidize Oly sports also, they lose money on that. But this blogger really gives you insight
into his mind when he says 2 things.

-Even worse is the shameful abuse of the players, who serve as unpaid laborers while their coaches make millions. “We give them a free education,”
Players are kinda idolized and most do a very good job of taking advantage of their degrees, and find careers, MOST.
They probably have a better batting average than the general student population.

If DI players are abused, then how much worse is it in D2 and D3? Some of these schools don't even offer Scollys.

(10-13-2015 11:58 AM)vandiver49 Wrote:  Sure, if one wants to see CFB morph into minor league baseball and most universities return to Rose-Hulman levels of obscurity.

CFB players aren't employees now, yet major CFP is not minor league baseball.

Thus, your statement is completely illogical.

(10-13-2015 11:05 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I know this guy is not the first advocate of such a thing, and won't be the last. I'm personally am somewhat conflicted about the corrupting influence it's becoming on our universities and young people . Know people will say , hey it's been this way for a long time ,so why sweat it. But it seems to me the tail is wagging the dog. There has to be a better way to do things and make the sport more pristine ethically and in line with above board principals. I know they'r going to be programs who are not going to play by the rules. So, let those programs create their own conference (since they like to do the bag man stuff and been paying player for quite sometime now). Two separate divisions one for the kids (get paid professionally) who are there to get to the next level and not really concerned about a education or degree. A 2nd division for those who are their for education and degree and maybe a pro career if possible but the education comes first. There will be a disparity we all know, but there is one all ready that exist, we all know, but this arrangement would be more transparent than opaque.

LINK

Pay every student athlete minimum wage. Make them pay their own way through school. System Fixed. Everyone gets what they want.

(10-13-2015 12:07 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:34 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  Whatever the answer is, to the supposed problem...

The problem is our society isn't broken. It was built this way.

That's why we always end up with problems like these, because our society's ordering of priorities is totally out of whack, and no matter what we're trying to do, somebody somewhere is getting screwed. It's a fact of life that sucks.

In the end, the incentive to cheat is too great. It's been documented in a lot of simulations surrounding the Prisoner's Dilemma. People routinely try to maximize their benefit for a possibly higher payout even if the group all benefits with a decent payout if they all cooperate. It's also what makes OPEC kinda laughable because all the countries would routinely exceed their quotas in order to get that extra payout relative to the others.

(10-13-2015 01:43 PM)5thTiger Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:05 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I know this guy is not the first advocate of such a thing, and won't be the last. I'm personally am somewhat conflicted about the corrupting influence it's becoming on our universities and young people . Know people will say , hey it's been this way for a long time ,so why sweat it. But it seems to me the tail is wagging the dog. There has to be a better way to do things and make the sport more pristine ethically and in line with above board principals. I know they'r going to be programs who are not going to play by the rules. So, let those programs create their own conference (since they like to do the bag man stuff and been paying player for quite sometime now). Two separate divisions one for the kids (get paid professionally) who are there to get to the next level and not really concerned about a education or degree. A 2nd division for those who are their for education and degree and maybe a pro career if possible but the education comes first. There will be a disparity we all know, but there is one all ready that exist, we all know, but this arrangement would be more transparent than opaque.

LINK

Pay every student athlete minimum wage. Make them pay their own way through school. System Fixed. Everyone gets what they want.

False. See the Prisoner's Dilemma. Regardless, virtually every school will look for ways to circumvent the rules because they will either 1) try to get an advantage relative to the other schools and/or 2) feel as if all other schools are circumventing the rules so it's in their best interest to circumvent the rules or they risk falling behind and losing out.

There are way more people who play college football in FBS who go on with their degree and get jobs then those who go pro. Even in the SEC or Big Ten does most of the players graduate and go on to start their non-football careers. People just blow this out of proportion each year based on the starting players for top teams.

There are only around 250 picks each each year if you were going to have only pro based team then you would probably only be able to put together 10-12 teams were every player could go pro including Arena and CFL.

Players are ringers and have been forever. As long as your alumni HATE that school down the road or just over the state line and will A) pay big bucks to secure a ticket to see that game and B) do ANYTHING not to have to listen to them crow about beating you, money and ringers will be there in one way or another.

The best we might be able to do is something like forcing the NFL to create a true farm team system so that kids with NFL talent don't have to pretend to be students for 3 years. That leaves the kids who either might become an NFL talent one day but can still be a student and make the grades in the mean time. Then you take the ultimate radical step of eliminating athletic scholarships while still maintaining roster cap limits on the FB team.

It wouldn't be a full return to amateurism (since as I pointed out, the alumni desire to beat rival X at all costs and pay to see it prevents a real return) but it would be close

(10-13-2015 02:02 PM)Carolina_Low_Country Wrote:  There are way more people who play college football in FBS who go on with their degree and get jobs then those who go pro. Even in the SEC or Big Ten does most of the players graduate and go on to start their non-football careers. People just blow this out of proportion each year based on the starting players for top teams.

There are only around 250 picks each each year if you were going to have only pro based team then you would probably only be able to put together 10-12 teams were every player could go pro including Arena and CFL.

This and super stars ready to enter draft early.

(10-13-2015 01:43 PM)5thTiger Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:05 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I know this guy is not the first advocate of such a thing, and won't be the last. I'm personally am somewhat conflicted about the corrupting influence it's becoming on our universities and young people . Know people will say , hey it's been this way for a long time ,so why sweat it. But it seems to me the tail is wagging the dog. There has to be a better way to do things and make the sport more pristine ethically and in line with above board principals. I know they'r going to be programs who are not going to play by the rules. So, let those programs create their own conference (since they like to do the bag man stuff and been paying player for quite sometime now). Two separate divisions one for the kids (get paid professionally) who are there to get to the next level and not really concerned about a education or degree. A 2nd division for those who are their for education and degree and maybe a pro career if possible but the education comes first. There will be a disparity we all know, but there is one all ready that exist, we all know, but this arrangement would be more transparent than opaque.

LINK

Pay every student athlete minimum wage. Make them pay their own way through school. System Fixed. Everyone gets what they want.

Why pay them minimum wage and have them pay their own way through school?

If you want the players to pay their way through school. Fine, but then the TV money is split between the players/coaches of the team. Since that is what the TV is paying for. The university can keep the revenue they generate from the gates since the players are using their facilities.

Also the players would be able to market their likenesses and get paid for advertisements and such.

(10-13-2015 01:43 PM)5thTiger Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:05 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I know this guy is not the first advocate of such a thing, and won't be the last. I'm personally am somewhat conflicted about the corrupting influence it's becoming on our universities and young people . Know people will say , hey it's been this way for a long time ,so why sweat it. But it seems to me the tail is wagging the dog. There has to be a better way to do things and make the sport more pristine ethically and in line with above board principals. I know they'r going to be programs who are not going to play by the rules. So, let those programs create their own conference (since they like to do the bag man stuff and been paying player for quite sometime now). Two separate divisions one for the kids (get paid professionally) who are there to get to the next level and not really concerned about a education or degree. A 2nd division for those who are their for education and degree and maybe a pro career if possible but the education comes first. There will be a disparity we all know, but there is one all ready that exist, we all know, but this arrangement would be more transparent than opaque.

LINK

Pay every student athlete minimum wage. Make them pay their own way through school. System Fixed. Everyone gets what they want.

Players who earn a scholarship do pay their way through school. That part of the system isn't broken.

(10-13-2015 02:19 PM)Greenroom Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 01:43 PM)5thTiger Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:05 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I know this guy is not the first advocate of such a thing, and won't be the last. I'm personally am somewhat conflicted about the corrupting influence it's becoming on our universities and young people . Know people will say , hey it's been this way for a long time ,so why sweat it. But it seems to me the tail is wagging the dog. There has to be a better way to do things and make the sport more pristine ethically and in line with above board principals. I know they'r going to be programs who are not going to play by the rules. So, let those programs create their own conference (since they like to do the bag man stuff and been paying player for quite sometime now). Two separate divisions one for the kids (get paid professionally) who are there to get to the next level and not really concerned about a education or degree. A 2nd division for those who are their for education and degree and maybe a pro career if possible but the education comes first. There will be a disparity we all know, but there is one all ready that exist, we all know, but this arrangement would be more transparent than opaque.

LINK

Pay every student athlete minimum wage. Make them pay their own way through school. System Fixed. Everyone gets what they want.

Why pay them minimum wage and have them pay their own way through school?

If you want the players to pay their way through school. Fine, but then the TV money is split between the players/coaches of the team. Since that is what the TV is paying for. The university can keep the revenue they generate from the gates since the players are using their facilities.

Also the players would be able to market their likenesses and get paid for advertisements and such.

That's called professional sports.

No thanks. That's not the tradition of college athletics.

Most of the trash players that gets arrested wound up being in the NFL. Right now, the NFL looks like the CFL. Criminal Football League

Child abuse, beating up on a woman, murder, dog fighting, rape, drug abuse, selling illegal drugs and so forth. When the NFL tried to clean up their image, you get the players union winning cases against the NFL and forced them to reinstate the players who got suspended. It needs to start to clean up this image from high school and all the way up to the Pros. Some of these players had criminal records in high school that many colleges and universities over look. Look at the Ohio Community College called Hocking? The starting QB was one of those football players that was found guilty of raping of a girl that they had photos of what they did posted online. It was the Stuebbenville case.

(10-13-2015 03:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 02:19 PM)Greenroom Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 01:43 PM)5thTiger Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:05 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I know this guy is not the first advocate of such a thing, and won't be the last. I'm personally am somewhat conflicted about the corrupting influence it's becoming on our universities and young people . Know people will say , hey it's been this way for a long time ,so why sweat it. But it seems to me the tail is wagging the dog. There has to be a better way to do things and make the sport more pristine ethically and in line with above board principals. I know they'r going to be programs who are not going to play by the rules. So, let those programs create their own conference (since they like to do the bag man stuff and been paying player for quite sometime now). Two separate divisions one for the kids (get paid professionally) who are there to get to the next level and not really concerned about a education or degree. A 2nd division for those who are their for education and degree and maybe a pro career if possible but the education comes first. There will be a disparity we all know, but there is one all ready that exist, we all know, but this arrangement would be more transparent than opaque.

LINK

Pay every student athlete minimum wage. Make them pay their own way through school. System Fixed. Everyone gets what they want.

Why pay them minimum wage and have them pay their own way through school?

If you want the players to pay their way through school. Fine, but then the TV money is split between the players/coaches of the team. Since that is what the TV is paying for. The university can keep the revenue they generate from the gates since the players are using their facilities.

Also the players would be able to market their likenesses and get paid for advertisements and such.

That's called professional sports.

No thanks. That's not the tradition of college athletics.

There are valid arguments about why student-athletes shouldn't be paid, such as arguing that the value of the scholarship plus the full cost of attendance is just compensation. I personally don't agree with those arguments (since I'm a believer that the value of top players is now much higher in today's marketplace), but I can understand them.

However, "tradition" is not an argument. Just because a rule or process has been in place for a long time doesn't make it inherently correct or better. A bad law is a bad law regardless of how long it has been in existence.

I like the salary cap idea from the president of the University of Wisconsin for coaches. It would require an anti trust exemption from congress but 1 million cap for coaches or less. I mean the players don't make money why should coaches get 10 million per year.

(10-15-2015 10:02 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 03:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 02:19 PM)Greenroom Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 01:43 PM)5thTiger Wrote:  

(10-13-2015 11:05 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  I know this guy is not the first advocate of such a thing, and won't be the last. I'm personally am somewhat conflicted about the corrupting influence it's becoming on our universities and young people . Know people will say , hey it's been this way for a long time ,so why sweat it. But it seems to me the tail is wagging the dog. There has to be a better way to do things and make the sport more pristine ethically and in line with above board principals. I know they'r going to be programs who are not going to play by the rules. So, let those programs create their own conference (since they like to do the bag man stuff and been paying player for quite sometime now). Two separate divisions one for the kids (get paid professionally) who are there to get to the next level and not really concerned about a education or degree. A 2nd division for those who are their for education and degree and maybe a pro career if possible but the education comes first. There will be a disparity we all know, but there is one all ready that exist, we all know, but this arrangement would be more transparent than opaque.

LINK

Pay every student athlete minimum wage. Make them pay their own way through school. System Fixed. Everyone gets what they want.

Why pay them minimum wage and have them pay their own way through school?

If you want the players to pay their way through school. Fine, but then the TV money is split between the players/coaches of the team. Since that is what the TV is paying for. The university can keep the revenue they generate from the gates since the players are using their facilities.

Also the players would be able to market their likenesses and get paid for advertisements and such.

That's called professional sports.

No thanks. That's not the tradition of college athletics.

There are valid arguments about why student-athletes shouldn't be paid, such as arguing that the value of the scholarship plus the full cost of attendance is just compensation. I personally don't agree with those arguments (since I'm a believer that the value of top players is now much higher in today's marketplace), but I can understand them.

However, "tradition" is not an argument. Just because a rule or process has been in place for a long time doesn't make it inherently correct or better. A bad law is a bad law regardless of how long it has been in existence.

It does work as an argument, when every participant voluntarily agrees to be apart of it and can leave at any time and for any reason he/she wishes.

Then the organization absolutely does have the right to arbitrarily define its rules.


I actually agree with you that some extremely gifted athletes have a lot of value coming out of high school. They should be allowed to monetize that value immediately, out of high school.

That they can't is entirely a failing of the NFL & NBA. It has nothing to do with college athletics. Go after the pro leagues. Leave college athletics alone!