RE: "Co-Champs"

You either won the division or you lost it. If you lose the head to head tiebreaker, you didn't win squat. The only time being a co-champ is legitimate IMO, is if you had a three way tie, where each team beat one of the two others, then the tiebreaker scenario starts getting more and more arbitrary with luck playing into it (record of crossover opponents and whatnot). If you were tied for the division with one team and you lost to that team, you weren't the co-champ of anything. I don't care if you get rings, trophies, banners, whatever...

Then again Toledo has been known to create championships, wins, titles, etc. out of thin air...

(10-05-2015 04:29 PM)eich41 Wrote:  RE: "Co-Champs"

You either won the division or you lost it. If you lose the head to head tiebreaker, you didn't win squat. The only time being a co-champ is legitimate IMO, is if you had a three way tie, where each team beat one of the two others, then the tiebreaker scenario starts getting more and more arbitrary with luck playing into it (record of crossover opponents and whatnot). If you were tied for the division with one team and you lost to that team, you weren't the co-champ of anything. I don't care if you get rings, trophies, banners, whatever...

Then again Toledo has been known to create championships, wins, titles, etc. out of thin air...

Yeah yeah. If its recognized by the conference it counts. The fact is, in those years we had the same MAC record. They beat us head to head, but also lost to a team with a worse record than us... Who we beat. The situation figured itself out and NIU won the conference in both years, but we have a claim to the MAC WEST if you like it or not. CMU, WMU, or EMU should go better than 0-15 against us if they dont like us claiming Co-West titles.

(10-05-2015 04:08 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:06 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:56 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:29 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:05 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Trophy games make a rivalry. It seems like the Toledo vs NIU rivalry has had a built in trophy called the MAC West crown...

Toledo vs BG first IMO. We play them every year even though we arent in the same division. EMU also wanting a stake in the michigan teams rivalry i would say waters down WMU and CMU.

UT vs BG (battle of i75/ peace pipe)
Akron vs Kent (wagon wheel)
.... are the closest MAC teams in proximity and have to give them 1 and 2.
OU vs. Miami (battle of the bricks)
Directional michigan rivalry's.

And no disrespect, but Toledo has not been to the MACCG in over 10 years. I wouldn't get ahead of yourself with the MACW crown argument. You would need to win one of those to claim it I think....

UT was MAC West Co-Champs with NIU in 2011 and 2014. NIU went to the MACC game because of their direct wins over Toledo.

Once again, no disrespect but there is no such thing as a co-champ in 99% of peoples eyes. You either won the division or you didn't.

Rings were given out. Its more impressive than winning the EAST!

Except that it isn't. But whatever it takes for you guys.

Participation rings.

(10-05-2015 04:07 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 03:54 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:56 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:29 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:05 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Trophy games make a rivalry. It seems like the Toledo vs NIU rivalry has had a built in trophy called the MAC West crown...

Toledo vs BG first IMO. We play them every year even though we arent in the same division. EMU also wanting a stake in the michigan teams rivalry i would say waters down WMU and CMU.

UT vs BG (battle of i75/ peace pipe)
Akron vs Kent (wagon wheel)
.... are the closest MAC teams in proximity and have to give them 1 and 2.
OU vs. Miami (battle of the bricks)
Directional michigan rivalry's.

And no disrespect, but Toledo has not been to the MACCG in over 10 years. I wouldn't get ahead of yourself with the MACW crown argument. You would need to win one of those to claim it I think....

UT was MAC West Co-Champs with NIU in 2011 and 2014. NIU went to the MACC game because of their direct wins over Toledo.

Uh...you actually went there.

Its as laughable as BG doing their MAC East championship ceremony against Toledo in womens basketball. Winning that side for the last couple seasons has been super funny!! Whats BG's record vs. our side of the conference in that time period? I know BG was 0-4 last year

What the heck does women's basketball have to do with any of this?

And squint all you want...you can't unsee this.

(10-05-2015 04:42 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:08 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:06 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:56 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:29 PM)george14 Wrote:  And no disrespect, but Toledo has not been to the MACCG in over 10 years. I wouldn't get ahead of yourself with the MACW crown argument. You would need to win one of those to claim it I think....

UT was MAC West Co-Champs with NIU in 2011 and 2014. NIU went to the MACC game because of their direct wins over Toledo.

Once again, no disrespect but there is no such thing as a co-champ in 99% of peoples eyes. You either won the division or you didn't.

Rings were given out. Its more impressive than winning the EAST!

Except that it isn't. But whatever it takes for you guys.

Rings.

I was 15 the last time BG beat Toledo

(10-05-2015 01:28 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:07 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Also in football how close are teams in the win column with their so called rivals? Toledo winning 5 in a row to MAC EAST top dogs narrows the all time series to very very close in favor of BG.

The amount of times played is also a good deciding factor in rivalry's

I don't mean to stir this debate up, but that's like saying UM-OSU is less of a rivalry because MSU wants a part. They are 2 separate rivalries, UM-MSU and UM-OSU.

CMU-WMU is a big rivalry. It's no disrespect to EMU, I don't really view them as a rival. If those fans want to take that as an insult because of their program, ok, I never said that but I know that is the response. There is the Michigan MAC trophy yes, but CMU and I don't think WMU views EMU as much of a rival simply because our big rivalry is each other. I view EMU just like I would view any other MACW opponent.

CMU-WMU has a trophy, the all time record is 47-36-2 in favor of WMU, and the last 10 is 6-4 in favor of CMU. Since CMU became D1 in the 1970's I'm pretty sure we have a substantial lead by like 20 wins.

At this time - cannot argue with that assessment. EMU needs to win a few of these games with Central and Western to make it a meaningful rivalry game (hopefully) in the future. Wins that impact recruiting and reputation - then a true rivalry will emerge.

(10-05-2015 04:57 PM)Huron Boy Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:28 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:07 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Also in football how close are teams in the win column with their so called rivals? Toledo winning 5 in a row to MAC EAST top dogs narrows the all time series to very very close in favor of BG.

The amount of times played is also a good deciding factor in rivalry's

I don't mean to stir this debate up, but that's like saying UM-OSU is less of a rivalry because MSU wants a part. They are 2 separate rivalries, UM-MSU and UM-OSU.

CMU-WMU is a big rivalry. It's no disrespect to EMU, I don't really view them as a rival. If those fans want to take that as an insult because of their program, ok, I never said that but I know that is the response. There is the Michigan MAC trophy yes, but CMU and I don't think WMU views EMU as much of a rival simply because our big rivalry is each other. I view EMU just like I would view any other MACW opponent.

CMU-WMU has a trophy, the all time record is 47-36-2 in favor of WMU, and the last 10 is 6-4 in favor of CMU. Since CMU became D1 in the 1970's I'm pretty sure we have a substantial lead by like 20 wins.

At this time - cannot argue with that assessment. EMU needs to win a few of these games with Central and Western to make it a meaningful rivalry game (hopefully) in the future. Wins that impact recruiting and reputation - then a true rivalry will emerge.

I think the big issue in the EMU rivalry is that fanbases tend to make the rivalry. Unfortunately, right now the EMU fanbase is nearly nonexistent (save for the handful of you guys on here). What fun is a rivalry if there's nobody on the other side to rub it in on when you win?

(10-05-2015 04:08 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Rings were given out. Its more impressive than winning the EAST!

Seriously!?! LOL

(10-05-2015 05:20 PM)HuskieAlumnus03 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:08 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Rings were given out. Its more impressive than winning the EAST!

Seriously!?! LOL

If my team won the conference out right and another team tied us for the division but lost head to head... I wouldnt care at all what they did as far as celebrating it? In the end my team beat the other and won the entire conference. Cheers to the team who was co- champs because they had a good season. Its important for recruiting as much as a bowl victory or a new practice facility.

NIU is pretty much the only team who can talk recent MAC football up more than UT.

(10-05-2015 05:26 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 05:20 PM)HuskieAlumnus03 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:08 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Rings were given out. Its more impressive than winning the EAST!

Seriously!?! LOL

If my team won the conference out right and another team tied us for the division but lost head to head... I wouldnt care at all what they did as far as celebrating it? In the end my team beat the other and won the entire conference. Cheers to the team who was co- champs because they had a good season. Its important for recruiting as much as a bowl victory or a new practice facility.

NIU is pretty much the only team who can talk recent MAC football up more than UT.

Or you can just make up stuff about being the winningest program in MAC history, having more MAC championships than anyone else, etc. and throw it in your recruiting video.

Plus if anyone tries to call you out on it, you can just show them the ring/trophy you had made up and make them eat crow!

(10-05-2015 05:16 PM)eich41 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:57 PM)Huron Boy Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:28 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:07 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Also in football how close are teams in the win column with their so called rivals? Toledo winning 5 in a row to MAC EAST top dogs narrows the all time series to very very close in favor of BG.

The amount of times played is also a good deciding factor in rivalry's

I don't mean to stir this debate up, but that's like saying UM-OSU is less of a rivalry because MSU wants a part. They are 2 separate rivalries, UM-MSU and UM-OSU.

CMU-WMU is a big rivalry. It's no disrespect to EMU, I don't really view them as a rival. If those fans want to take that as an insult because of their program, ok, I never said that but I know that is the response. There is the Michigan MAC trophy yes, but CMU and I don't think WMU views EMU as much of a rival simply because our big rivalry is each other. I view EMU just like I would view any other MACW opponent.

CMU-WMU has a trophy, the all time record is 47-36-2 in favor of WMU, and the last 10 is 6-4 in favor of CMU. Since CMU became D1 in the 1970's I'm pretty sure we have a substantial lead by like 20 wins.

At this time - cannot argue with that assessment. EMU needs to win a few of these games with Central and Western to make it a meaningful rivalry game (hopefully) in the future. Wins that impact recruiting and reputation - then a true rivalry will emerge.

I think the big issue in the EMU rivalry is that fanbases tend to make the rivalry. Unfortunately, right now the EMU fanbase is nearly nonexistent (save for the handful of you guys on here). What fun is a rivalry if there's nobody on the other side to rub it in on when you win?

Nothing a few years of winning could take care of - I was there in late '80s - early 90s. It's possible, but yeah - need to pick up some W's and fill the seats.

(10-05-2015 12:46 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Ohio v Miami is, and will always be, the MAC's top rivalry.

Was.

I don't think any rivalry that draws fewer than 12k people is at the top right now.

(10-05-2015 05:39 PM)eich41 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 05:26 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 05:20 PM)HuskieAlumnus03 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:08 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Rings were given out. Its more impressive than winning the EAST!

Seriously!?! LOL

If my team won the conference out right and another team tied us for the division but lost head to head... I wouldnt care at all what they did as far as celebrating it? In the end my team beat the other and won the entire conference. Cheers to the team who was co- champs because they had a good season. Its important for recruiting as much as a bowl victory or a new practice facility.

NIU is pretty much the only team who can talk recent MAC football up more than UT.

Or you can just make up stuff about being the winningest program in MAC history, having more MAC championships than anyone else, etc. and throw it in your recruiting video.

Plus if anyone tries to call you out on it, you can just show them the ring/trophy you had made up and make them eat crow!

You're just jealous because your Chips don't have 36 MAC titles, two National Championship Game appearances and a Heisman winner on their resume.

(10-05-2015 05:39 PM)eich41 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 05:26 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 05:20 PM)HuskieAlumnus03 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:08 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Rings were given out. Its more impressive than winning the EAST!

Seriously!?! LOL

If my team won the conference out right and another team tied us for the division but lost head to head... I wouldnt care at all what they did as far as celebrating it? In the end my team beat the other and won the entire conference. Cheers to the team who was co- champs because they had a good season. Its important for recruiting as much as a bowl victory or a new practice facility.

NIU is pretty much the only team who can talk recent MAC football up more than UT.

Or you can just make up stuff about being the winningest program in MAC history, having more MAC championships than anyone else, etc. and throw it in your recruiting video.


Plus if anyone tries to call you out on it, you can just show them the ring/trophy you had made up and make them eat crow!

Since the MAC FB went to Divisional play in 1997:
Against Toledo:
Ball State 8-10 44.4% Winning %
NIU 7-11 38.8%
CMU 5-13 27.7%
WMU 5-13 27.7%
EMU 3-15 16.7%

(10-05-2015 09:13 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 12:46 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Ohio v Miami is, and will always be, the MAC's top rivalry.

Was.

I don't think any rivalry that draws fewer than 12k people is at the top right now.

that's Miami's fault! LOL

(10-06-2015 08:21 AM)bobcat_backer Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 09:13 PM)wmubroncopilot Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 12:46 PM)perimeterpost Wrote:  Ohio v Miami is, and will always be, the MAC's top rivalry.

Was.

I don't think any rivalry that draws fewer than 12k people is at the top right now.

that's Miami's fault! LOL

So Miami has let it go, but Ohio still holds the passion. It is know only one sided meaning it is no longer a rivalry, but a grudge held by Ohio. Welcome to the world of EMU as it exist with WMU and CMU.

(10-05-2015 04:48 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:42 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:08 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:06 PM)george14 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 01:56 PM)Boca Rocket Wrote:  UT was MAC West Co-Champs with NIU in 2011 and 2014. NIU went to the MACC game because of their direct wins over Toledo.

Once again, no disrespect but there is no such thing as a co-champ in 99% of peoples eyes. You either won the division or you didn't.

Rings were given out. Its more impressive than winning the EAST!

Except that it isn't. But whatever it takes for you guys.

Rings.

I was 15 the last time BG beat Toledo

You really didn't need to mention that...it's quite apparent.

(10-05-2015 05:26 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 05:20 PM)HuskieAlumnus03 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:08 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Rings were given out. Its more impressive than winning the EAST!

Seriously!?! LOL

If my team won the conference out right and another team tied us for the division but lost head to head... I wouldnt care at all what they did as far as celebrating it? In the end my team beat the other and won the entire conference. Cheers to the team who was co- champs because they had a good season. Its important for recruiting as much as a bowl victory or a new practice facility.

NIU is pretty much the only team who can talk recent MAC football up more than UT.

Sure...if you want to devalue what actually matters...championships.

(10-06-2015 10:18 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 05:26 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 05:20 PM)HuskieAlumnus03 Wrote:  

(10-05-2015 04:08 PM)UofToledoFans Wrote:  Rings were given out. Its more impressive than winning the EAST!

Seriously!?! LOL

If my team won the conference out right and another team tied us for the division but lost head to head... I wouldnt care at all what they did as far as celebrating it? In the end my team beat the other and won the entire conference. Cheers to the team who was co- champs because they had a good season. Its important for recruiting as much as a bowl victory or a new practice facility.

NIU is pretty much the only team who can talk recent MAC football up more than UT.

Sure...if you want to devalue what actually matters...championships.

BG's had 1 MACC since the Conference went to Divisions and a Championship game.