ESPN article actually calling the Big East a "major" conference.

Two years ago when the Big East was forced to reconstitute itself as a league that doesn't play FBS-level football, no one really knew what would happen to the conference in terms of basketball. After all, the teams that left the Big East comprised a regular who's-who of college hoops: Connecticut, Louisville, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, West Virginia and Cincinnati all departed in search of greener pastures. (While the league was hemorrhaging teams, two somewhat less storied basketball programs also chose to head out the door: Rutgers and South Florida.) Within the span of just three seasons, the one-time 16-team "super conference" lost over half its members.

There's simply no precedent for a conference losing that many quality teams, and observers could be forgiven for doubting whether the Big East would survive at all. In fact, in 2013 when the so-called "Catholic Seven" (DePaul, Georgetown, Marquette, Providence, St. John's, Seton Hall and Villanova) decided to hang on to the "Big East" name, there was some confusion regarding who owned that particular two-word sequence and/or whether those persons had the "right" to sell it. Did Connecticut, Cincinnati and South Florida "leave" for the American or did those programs actually stay put and welcome seven new members to a renamed version of the "old" Big East? It depends on your point of view.


NCAA tournament success has eluded Villanova recently, but the Wildcats won an average of 31 games over the last two seasons. Elsa/Getty Images
Certainly the last thing that anyone expected was that the backward-looking, football-benighted and under-funded Big East would acquit itself quite well where basketball is concerned. But now, with two full seasons of hoops in the books and new members Butler, Xavier and Creighton well established in the league, we can state with confidence that this is precisely what has taken place. The new-format Big East is still what we in basketball term a "major conference" -- and the American, it turns out, very likely is not.

In terms of average KenPom ratings posted by teams over the past two seasons, the Big East trails only the Big 12, Big Ten and ACC in terms of overall statistical strength. Meanwhile, the American ranks No. 8, behind not only the six traditional major conferences but also the Atlantic 10.

Avg. Ratings: '13-'14 And '14-'15
1. Big 12 .8045
2. Big Ten .7926
3. ACC .7836
4. Big East .7590
5. Pac-12 .7508
6. SEC .7424
7. Atlantic 10 .6528
8. American .6443
9. West Coast .6015
10. Missouri Valley .5656
11. Mountain West .5569
Source: KenPom.com
Not that we should read too much into top-to-bottom statistical measures, of course. Such metrics often benefit smaller conferences that have fewer football-oriented programs, and certainly the Big East leads the nation in that particular category.

Still, there's no getting around the fact that the Big East has fared surprisingly well in its new, smaller configuration. Note for example that the statistical gap between Nos. 6 and 7 (the SEC and the A-10) is far larger than that between Nos. 1 and 6 (the Big 12 and the SEC). Over the past two seasons there's been a clear distinction to be drawn between Division I's top six conferences and the rest of the country, and the Big East is on the good side of that line.

Last season Villanova won its second consecutive Big East regular-season title, while Georgetown, Butler, Xavier, Providence and St. John's joined the Wildcats in earning NCAA tournament bids. The performance of the league's top half was enough to offset down seasons from Marquette (in Year 1 of Steve Wojciechowski's tenure) and Creighton (enduring Year 1 of the post-Doug-McDermott era).

Nevertheless, if there's a perception issue bedeviling the Big East it's that the league lacks a flagship program. The ACC might fairly be termed a league of flagships, whether you're speaking of two of the past three national champions (Duke and Louisville), the conference's two-time defending regular-season champion (Virginia), or a likely preseason No. 1 in the national polls (North Carolina). For its part the Big Ten can claim 2015 Final Four entrants Wisconsin and Michigan State. Similarly, the SEC has Kentucky, the Big 12 has Kansas, and the Pac-12 has Arizona.

And the Big East? Other things being equal, Villanova should be this league's flagship program, at least at the moment. The Wildcats earned No. 2 and No. 1 seeds in the 2014 and 2015 NCAA tournaments, respectively, which certainly sounds impressive enough. Alas, Jay Wright's team failed to reach the Sweet 16 in either bracket. Tournament success has been elusive for the Big East these past two seasons, but if history is any indication, that dry spell may come to an end sooner rather than later. Butler, Xavier, Villanova, Georgetown and Marquette have all won at least 11 NCAA tournament games since 2000. Only the Big Ten (with seven such teams) can top that number. What the Big East lacks in flagships it makes up for in depth.


Shabazz Napier led the UConn Huskies to a national title in 2014, raising the profile of the American Athletic Conference. Ronald Martinez/Getty Images
As for the American, granted, things may not be quite as dire as they appear numerically. The league did claim a national title in its first season, only to follow that up with a truly and maybe even aberrantly dismal season of hoops in 2014-15. You won't often see Connecticut post a 20-15 record, and goodness knows the conference's statistical strength was done no favors last season by a 9-23 South Florida program that just three years ago came within a few possessions of the Sweet 16.

Regardless, the American's numbers from last season actually aren't all that dissimilar to the rolling five-season average recorded by the 10 teams that currently comprise the conference. In fact, one factor behind the league's year-to-year statistical decline was simply the departure of Louisville to the ACC after the 2013-14 season. One might go so far as to speculate that in the first two seasons of the league's existence we've already seen both the best (2013-14) and the worst (2014-15) that the American has to offer in terms of basketball. If this indeed turns out to be the case, you can mark down the American as a "high" mid-major, on about the same level as the Atlantic 10.

After two seasons of post-realignment basketball, then, it appears that the new landscape may turn out to be rather similar to the old one. There are still, it seems, six major conferences, and while the Big East can no longer host epic showdowns between, say, Connecticut and Syracuse, the league still plays basketball at a fairly high level. It's been a long and wild ride for the conference founded by Dave Gavitt in 1979, but somehow the Big East is comfortably ensconced among the nation's basketball elite in 2015. Soon, one presumes, the league's success in the NCAA tournament will once again reflect that fact.

- John Gasaway

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketba...conference

I still consider the Big East a major men's basketball conference. It is obviously not nearly what it once was - which is to say the greatest conference ever assembled - but it is definitely still a major conference. To be honest, I consider the American to be a major conference as well. Any league that has schools such as Georgetown and Villanova in it, or alternatively, Connecticut, Cincinnati and Memphis, is a major college basketball conference. Again, they're not on the same level as the ACC or the Big Ten or even the big 12. However, those are definitely major conferences.

UConn, UC, and USF never left. The c7 left. The BIG EAST of old is the AAC. The conference called the "BIG EAST" right now is a new conference. How John screwed that up is beyond me. I also don't remember anyone claiming that the AAC was going to be a basketball power or that the BIG EAST would not. It's not like there aren't name teams in the conference.

it seems odd to me that they are doing this after only 2 years. Not enough of a sample size. Also, lets see all the teams that have moved get integrated in the new conference with the recruiting etc. and then be able to see what the new normal is.

Yeah, they've got the horses to be a major, so why not call 'em what they are. Hope the Aac can do better..

(09-10-2015 11:50 PM)nzmorange Wrote:  UConn, UC, and USF never left. The c7 left. ... How John screwed that up is beyond me.

Yeah, it sounds like somebody having multiple confused versions of events competing with the actual chronology and writing up "he said / she said" instead of just checking out, working out which version was correct, and going with that.

So

Quote: Connecticut, Louisville, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pittsburgh, West Virginia and Cincinnati all departed in search of greener pastures. (While the league was hemorrhaging teams, two somewhat less storied basketball programs also chose to head out the door: Rutgers and South Florida.)

... is simply wrong. Louisville, Syracuse, Notre Dame, Pitt, WVU and Rutgers all left, but UConn, UC and South Florida stayed, and the C7 left them.

IMO, you can't say a conference is a "Major Conference" or a "P-Level" conference, unless it is so in football. Lacking that very Major Sport, ya can't say that with FCS teams in it.

Otherwise, if the Missouri Valley conference, say, rose near the top and was the #4 conference for 2 years, would you say the Missouri Valley conference was a "Major Conference" in sports altogether? Which implies a P-Level conference, when they're D1AA/FCS in football? Of course not. :)

(09-11-2015 02:33 AM)toddjnsn Wrote:  IMO, you can't say a conference is a "Major Conference" or a "P-Level" conference, unless it is so in football. Lacking that very Major Sport, ya can't say that with FCS teams in it.

Otherwise, if the Missouri Valley conference, say, rose near the top and was the #4 conference for 2 years, would you say the Missouri Valley conference was a "Major Conference" in sports altogether? Which implies a P-Level conference, when they're D1AA/FCS in football? Of course not. :)

"A major conference in BBall" does not imply a P-level conference in football. If the MVC rose to the #4 BBall conference in the country, then, yeah, they'd be a major conference in BBall.

Clearly the Big East is a "Major" Conference.

Big East is a nobody conference without football. I will move them down below in the leagues of the Summitt or A-Sun. Those C7 shot themselves in the foot with basketball 1st mentality.

He's just stating the obvious. The Big East has remained a "power" basketball conference. Will it always be so? Not necessarily, but for now, it is.

Why would ESPN say anything about a FOX League ? Who still watches anyway ?

(09-11-2015 05:33 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Why would ESPN say anything about a FOX League ? Who still watches anyway ?

So Fox will keep overpaying them while only15,000 people watch?

(09-11-2015 06:22 AM)Hank Schrader Wrote:  

(09-11-2015 05:33 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  Why would ESPN say anything about a FOX League ? Who still watches anyway ?

So Fox will keep overpaying them while only15,000 people watch?

Big East TV schedule was just released and there will be 12 games televised on Big Fox and 3 on CBS. Not sure many conferences can say they have that many games on network tv. While moving these games from FS1 to Fox might hurt FS1 ratings, I dont think the Big East will complain....

The BE has only one direction to go in. Down. The AAC can go down sideways or up. My guess is up.

The Big East schools can have a winning record vs the P5. (like last year) If they had stayed with the AAC schools, that would pretty much never happen. I do miss playing UConn and Cincinnati though.

(09-11-2015 04:38 AM)DavidSt Wrote:  Big East is a nobody conference without football. I will move them down below in the leagues of the Summitt or A-Sun. Those C7 shot themselves in the foot with basketball 1st mentality.

Yes, because Villanova and Georgetown are equal to Western Illinois and UT-Arlington

Major conference means something different in basketball. It probably includes ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big XII, PAC-12, Big East, American, Mountain West, and the A-10. You could make an argument for the WCC and the Missouri Valley as well. Those are the conference that earn at-large bids and whose best team receives single digit seeds. Basketball is treated differently than football in public perception. While you still have the power five, the next group of leagues are not mid-majors but major multiple bid conferences.

(09-11-2015 08:01 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Major conference means something different in basketball. It probably includes ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big XII, PAC-12, Big East, American, Mountain West, and the A-10. You could make an argument for the WCC and the Missouri Valley as well. Those are the conference that earn at-large bids and whose best team receives single digit seeds. Basketball is treated differently than football in public perception. While you still have the power five, the next group of leagues are not mid-majors but major multiple bid conferences.

I'd really take out the MWC now quite frankly. Yeah they got 3 only because of Wyoming winning the title last year.

(09-11-2015 08:01 AM)bearcatlawjd2 Wrote:  Major conference means something different in basketball. It probably includes ACC, SEC, Big Ten, Big XII, PAC-12, Big East, American, Mountain West, and the A-10. You could make an argument for the WCC and the Missouri Valley as well. Those are the conference that earn at-large bids and whose best team receives single digit seeds. Basketball is treated differently than football in public perception. While you still have the power five, the next group of leagues are not mid-majors but major multiple bid conferences.

Agreed. The power conference distinction certainly carries weight in basketball, but it's not the black-and-white wall that it is in football.

I'm not sure why anyone is surprised that the Big East is still performing well. Within its niche of being a non-FBS Division I league, it's at the very top and makes more TV money than any of the G5 leagues. The Big Ten is willing to have a basketball series deal with the Big East, too, which is nothing to slouch at even if it isn't as comprehensive as the ACC/Big Ten Challenge. The Big Ten is very protective of its brand, so it wouldn't have done a deal with the Big East if it didn't perceive it to be a power league for basketball purposes.

If anything, the lack of football is freeing to the current Big East. They're not being bogged down by the crossover G5 label that the AAC and MWC have, so they're effectively occupying a space in between the P5 and G5 (which is reflected in how much more the Big East is getting paid compared to the G5 even without football).