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"Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
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domer1978 Offline
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"Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
SOUTH BEND, Ind. — Now is a good time to take a reflective walk with the president of the University of Notre Dame, through the woods behind his office in a golden-domed building, beside two lakes named after saints. A good time, and a serene setting, to ponder a sacred matter of profound moral implications: college athletics.

With the advent of another football season, the accusations of student-athlete exploitation continue to unnerve higher education — the growing demand that student-athletes share in the revenue they generate; the calls for N.C.A.A. reform; the push for unionization; academic fraud, sexual assaults, seamy cover-ups. It’s that 1932 Marx Brothers movie about college football, “Horse Feathers,” only without the laughs.

Nowhere are these questions of morality and justice more pressing than at this academic powerhouse with a football emphasis — or this football powerhouse with an academic emphasis. Notre Dame’s Catholic foundation informs everything here, down to the likeness of Jesus looming over home games, arms raised as if signaling a touchdown, or encouraging the faithful to do the wave.

Its president, the Rev. John I. Jenkins, 61, walking at the moment with head bowed in thought, may not be much of a football man; he is more Aquinas scholar than Rockne acolyte. But he can read the field. He sees the changes coming.

He knows that some detest Notre Dame’s storied football program, down to the constant use of “storied.” He also knows that for all its emphasis on nourishing the soul and improving the mind, Notre Dame is sometimes dismissed as just another exploitative enterprise — an Ohio State in priestly garb — reaping considerable revenue from the toil of football players who see none of the money.

Father Jenkins, a passionate defender of his alma mater, has considered the arguments. He agrees that the N.C.A.A. is struggling to find its role on a changed playing field. And, in what may come as a surprise, he suggests that student-athletes should be able to monetize their fame, with limits.

But he adamantly opposes a model in which college sheds what is left of its amateur ways for a semiprofessional structure — one in which universities pay their athletes. “Our relationship to these young people is to educate them, to help them grow,” he says. “Not to be their agent for financial gain.”

And if that somehow comes to pass, he says, Notre Dame will leave the profitable industrial complex that is elite college football, boosters be damned, and explore the creation of a conference with like-minded universities.

That’s right: Notre Dame would take its 23.9-karat-gold-flecked football helmets and play elsewhere.

“Perhaps institutions will make decisions about where they want to go — a semipro model or a different, more educational model — and I welcome that,” Father Jenkins says. “I wouldn’t consider that a bad outcome, and I think there would be schools that would do that.”

Pundits scoffed when Jack Swarbrick, the university’s athletic director, voiced similar sentiments this year. No way would Notre Dame — practically French for college football — set aside its national ambitions and settle for Saturday matchups against, say, Carnegie Mellon.

Think of it, they reasoned. Television and sports-apparel contracts would dry up, alumni generosity would decline, and the best athletes would go elsewhere. Notre Dame would no longer be ... Notre Dame.

The scholar-president disagrees. Notre Dame will remain Notre Dame no matter what, he says, fully aware that he is on the record. More at link

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/sports...&smtyp=cur
09-10-2015 11:30 AM
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CardFan1 Offline
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Post: #2
RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
(09-10-2015 11:30 AM)domer1978 Wrote:  SOUTH BEND, Ind. — Now is a good time to take a reflective walk with the president of the University of Notre Dame, through the woods behind his office in a golden-domed building, beside two lakes named after saints. A good time, and a serene setting, to ponder a sacred matter of profound moral implications: college athletics.

With the advent of another football season, the accusations of student-athlete exploitation continue to unnerve higher education — the growing demand that student-athletes share in the revenue they generate; the calls for N.C.A.A. reform; the push for unionization; academic fraud, sexual assaults, seamy cover-ups. It’s that 1932 Marx Brothers movie about college football, “Horse Feathers,” only without the laughs.

Nowhere are these questions of morality and justice more pressing than at this academic powerhouse with a football emphasis — or this football powerhouse with an academic emphasis. Notre Dame’s Catholic foundation informs everything here, down to the likeness of Jesus looming over home games, arms raised as if signaling a touchdown, or encouraging the faithful to do the wave.

Its president, the Rev. John I. Jenkins, 61, walking at the moment with head bowed in thought, may not be much of a football man; he is more Aquinas scholar than Rockne acolyte. But he can read the field. He sees the changes coming.

He knows that some detest Notre Dame’s storied football program, down to the constant use of “storied.” He also knows that for all its emphasis on nourishing the soul and improving the mind, Notre Dame is sometimes dismissed as just another exploitative enterprise — an Ohio State in priestly garb — reaping considerable revenue from the toil of football players who see none of the money.

Father Jenkins, a passionate defender of his alma mater, has considered the arguments. He agrees that the N.C.A.A. is struggling to find its role on a changed playing field. And, in what may come as a surprise, he suggests that student-athletes should be able to monetize their fame, with limits.

But he adamantly opposes a model in which college sheds what is left of its amateur ways for a semiprofessional structure — one in which universities pay their athletes. “Our relationship to these young people is to educate them, to help them grow,” he says. “Not to be their agent for financial gain.”

And if that somehow comes to pass, he says, Notre Dame will leave the profitable industrial complex that is elite college football, boosters be damned, and explore the creation of a conference with like-minded universities.

That’s right: Notre Dame would take its 23.9-karat-gold-flecked football helmets and play elsewhere.

“Perhaps institutions will make decisions about where they want to go — a semipro model or a different, more educational model — and I welcome that,” Father Jenkins says. “I wouldn’t consider that a bad outcome, and I think there would be schools that would do that.”

Pundits scoffed when Jack Swarbrick, the university’s athletic director, voiced similar sentiments this year. No way would Notre Dame — practically French for college football — set aside its national ambitions and settle for Saturday matchups against, say, Carnegie Mellon.

Think of it, they reasoned. Television and sports-apparel contracts would dry up, alumni generosity would decline, and the best athletes would go elsewhere. Notre Dame would no longer be ... Notre Dame.

The scholar-president disagrees. Notre Dame will remain Notre Dame no matter what, he says, fully aware that he is on the record. More at link

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/11/sports...&smtyp=cur

Hmmmmmmmmm, Storm front moving towards the Atlantic ?

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09-10-2015 11:39 AM
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XLance Offline
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
We need more Presidents to take the same public stand. Greed will ruin college athletics (if it's already not too late).
09-10-2015 11:43 AM
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YNot Offline
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
Notre Dame to another Ivy League? Aligns with perhaps Stanford, Duke, Northwestern, Vanderbilt? Grab some others from among Boston College, Wake, Pitt, Syracuse, Rice, Tulane, SMU, Buffalo...
09-10-2015 11:49 AM
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MWC Tex Offline
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
Well, I know of 2 conferences that will stand with ND and a new model (PAC & Big 10) if it comes to that.
09-10-2015 11:50 AM
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YNot Offline
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
(09-10-2015 11:50 AM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Well, I know of 2 conferences that will stand with ND and a new model (PAC & Big 10) if it comes to that.

And take a pretty good Rose Bowl game with them....
09-10-2015 11:57 AM
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UConnHusky Offline
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
My favorite quote from the article...

"Father Jenkins describes himself as a football fan, one who finds worth even in defeat. (“Losses teach more than victories,” he says.)

Well, Father Jenkins, you would have learned a TON if you were following UConn's last four seasons! haha.
09-10-2015 12:03 PM
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TerryD Offline
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
There might be real college sports realignment of like minded institutions as opposed to TV network driven stuff?
09-10-2015 12:06 PM
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All Rams All The Time Offline
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
Whether a 'new Ivy League' were to develop with a bunch of privates, or the PAC and B1G (and the Rose Bowl) take this path -- or both of the above -- there are a lot worse things that could happen. It IS college athletics, after all.

Both notions are interesting to consider. Good on the ND prez for talking to the paper of record about such things. If another prez (Stanford, Duke, Vandy, Northwestern, etc.) were talking publicly about this, I'd be more inclined to think it was coalescing. No offense, domers, but your alma mater has a long history of lobbying for privilege, and to their credit they've leveraged a considerable amount for themselves.
09-10-2015 12:18 PM
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Ghis Offline
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Post: #10
RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
Interesting. You participate in the opening of Pandora's Box by accepting all the television revenue, now you claim you don't want to become part of the minor leagues for professional sports. Seems to me the moment you accepted the cash, that horse left the barn; and it ain't coming back.
09-10-2015 12:21 PM
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Dasville Offline
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Post: #11
RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
(09-10-2015 12:06 PM)TerryD Wrote:  There might be real college sports realignment of like minded institutions as opposed to TV network driven stuff?

Whom would you exclude from this new "like minded" conference? 05-stirthepot
09-10-2015 12:32 PM
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BIgCatonProwl Offline
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
Give Notre Dame a A for standing up to the for profit model the rest of the NCAA seems to be migrating to. CFB maybe ruined we just don't know it, yet.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2015 12:56 PM by BIgCatonProwl.)
09-10-2015 12:56 PM
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domer1978 Offline
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
(09-10-2015 12:56 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  Give Notre Dame a A for standing up to the for profit model the rest of the NCAA seems to be migrating to. CFB maybe ruined we just don't know it, yet.

I applaud it but I also am aware we played a role in getting this whole mess started.
09-10-2015 01:01 PM
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
(09-10-2015 01:01 PM)domer1978 Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 12:56 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  Give Notre Dame a A for standing up to the for profit model the rest of the NCAA seems to be migrating to. CFB maybe ruined we just don't know it, yet.

I applaud it but I also am aware we played a role in getting this whole mess started.

I agree. I guess the old saying."be careful for what you wish for...is true". Pandora box has been open....only things that remains is hope that CFB is not ruined.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2015 01:08 PM by BIgCatonProwl.)
09-10-2015 01:06 PM
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
I hope the B1G would follow. If some wanted to leave to do the semi-pro model, fine.

People are fans of the players, sure, but the teams moreso. Thus, you can dress DIII football players up in the B1G uniforms and the same number of people will still watch.

It's still Minnesota v Wisconsin, Michigan v Ohio St, etc., even if none of the teams have NFL draft picks.
09-10-2015 01:16 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
(09-10-2015 01:16 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  It's still Minnesota v Wisconsin, Michigan v Ohio St, etc., even if none of the teams have NFL draft picks.

No, it's not. If the top 25% of CFB players are all playing in other conferences, then Michigan-Ohio State would have an appeal closer to Harvard-Yale than Alabama-Auburn.

The Big Ten knows that. Notre Dame knows that. The enormous revenue stream goes away if you start playing Ivy-like football. That's why this is a bluff.
09-10-2015 01:21 PM
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
(09-10-2015 01:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 01:16 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  It's still Minnesota v Wisconsin, Michigan v Ohio St, etc., even if none of the teams have NFL draft picks.

No, it's not. If the top 25% of CFB players are all playing in other conferences, then Michigan-Ohio State would have an appeal closer to Harvard-Yale than Alabama-Auburn.

The Big Ten knows that. Notre Dame knows that. The enormous revenue stream goes away if you start playing Ivy-like football. That's why this is a bluff.

Bottom line, no matter the sport or occupation, shouldn't be a professional until you are 21. Be it golf or computers. That is what is best for the kid.
Now, if you are ND or Apple, you want the best talent regardless. At that point, it is all about "what can you do for me?"

Even in admissions.
09-10-2015 01:40 PM
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
(09-10-2015 01:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 01:16 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  It's still Minnesota v Wisconsin, Michigan v Ohio St, etc., even if none of the teams have NFL draft picks.

No, it's not. If the top 25% of CFB players are all playing in other conferences, then Michigan-Ohio State would have an appeal closer to Harvard-Yale than Alabama-Auburn.

The Big Ten knows that. Notre Dame knows that. The enormous revenue stream goes away if you start playing Ivy-like football. That's why this is a bluff.

Not so sure about that Wedge. Are the MW and MAC schools going to fill that void for the PAC and Big 10 schools instead? I don't think so and I think college fans will still root for the teams because who else in the West and Upper Mid-West are they going to root for? Are all the California athletes going to play for the schools in the SE? I really doubt it, because even in the model the Ivies have, the athletes get financial aid to cover costs from grants to miscellaneous academic scholarships.
You know the Rose bowl would be taken with the PAC and Big 10 (which probably ND is included in the conference for this scenario) and the crowds will still cheer and watch to who is going to go to the Rose Bowl.
From the fan perspective, it wouldn't be much different, TV will still show games and the conferences will still get money from it just as the Ivy League does for what little TV they get even if they are non-schollie FCS.
Also, the MW and MAC schools will follow along the PAC and Big 10 because they aren't going to be able to pay athletes as employee's either and it is in their best interest to keep close ties to those 2 conferences. I don't know what the other conferences would do, but we've heard and seen the past actions of the Big 10 and Pac 12 are more than capable of just having the Rose Bowl to themselves and be happy about it.
(This post was last modified: 09-10-2015 01:53 PM by MWC Tex.)
09-10-2015 01:52 PM
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Wedge Offline
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
(09-10-2015 01:52 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 01:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 01:16 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  It's still Minnesota v Wisconsin, Michigan v Ohio St, etc., even if none of the teams have NFL draft picks.

No, it's not. If the top 25% of CFB players are all playing in other conferences, then Michigan-Ohio State would have an appeal closer to Harvard-Yale than Alabama-Auburn.

The Big Ten knows that. Notre Dame knows that. The enormous revenue stream goes away if you start playing Ivy-like football. That's why this is a bluff.

Not so sure about that Wedge. Are the MW and MAC schools going to fill that void for the PAC and Big 10 schools instead?

That question bolsters my argument. Those deep-pocketed USC boosters will not happily watch kids who would have played at USC going to San Diego State instead, just because some administrators decided that paying a stipend to players was beneath their dignity. And Uncle Phil won't be happy seeing Oregon turn away the elite players they now recruit and watching them go to Boise State instead. Not gonna happen here, no matter what Larry Scott says for public consumption while he's taking a break from f___ing up the DirecTV deal.
09-10-2015 02:00 PM
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RE: "Notre Dame President Stands Firm Amid Shifts in College Football":
(09-10-2015 01:21 PM)Wedge Wrote:  
(09-10-2015 01:16 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  It's still Minnesota v Wisconsin, Michigan v Ohio St, etc., even if none of the teams have NFL draft picks.

No, it's not. If the top 25% of CFB players are all playing in other conferences, then Michigan-Ohio State would have an appeal closer to Harvard-Yale than Alabama-Auburn.

The Big Ten knows that. Notre Dame knows that. The enormous revenue stream goes away if you start playing Ivy-like football. That's why this is a bluff.

Yes, I agree. It's a complete bluff.

Too many college football fans have blinders in thinking that paying players or other professionalization-type measure will supposedly turn it into "semi-pro football" (as if that's some type of insult). Let's have a reality check: college football has been "semi-pro football" for a looooooooooooong time. Why do people keep pretending that it has been anything other than that with the money that's already flowing through the system?

Call me crazy, but I'm not betting on the University of Illinois to give up $40 million or more per year from the Big Ten when the state of Illinois has slashed its budget to the bone. Same thing for the University of Minnesota, University of Michigan and every other school in the Big Ten. Notre Dame and the Big Ten are straight up lying on this issue and I wish they would stop pretending that they have the high road on this matter (and I say that as a Big Ten guy). Why do these universities suddenly get religion on revenue with sports when they're openly funding tech startups that are purely for-profit ventures? I have no tolerance for sanctimonious B.S. from these universities.

I'm a pure free market capitalist: let the money flow freely through college sports. The Big Ten should be able to make as much money as it wants... and so should the Big Ten players. No one should be ashamed of that fact. Just admit it and 99% of the TV viewing audience will say, "I don't care. I just want to watch some more football."
09-10-2015 02:00 PM
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