(09-06-2015 07:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  I'm not a big Huckabee fan, but he was well prepared and answered well to the attacks by Stephanopolous.

http://abcnews.go.com/beta/Politics/mike...d=33568067

to say the gay marriage decision is comparable to Dred Scott because "what did Lincoln do" shows one does not understand history nor has basic common sense. he then couldn't provide a legitimate response to the follow up of the interracial marriage ban comparisons and basically said "they are not the same because I say so." Also the reason liberals weren't thrown in jail is because they weren't discriminating against people on this issue.

(09-06-2015 08:27 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 07:01 PM)bullet Wrote:  I'm not a big Huckabee fan, but he was well prepared and answered well to the attacks by Stephanopolous.

http://abcnews.go.com/beta/Politics/mike...d=33568067

to say the gay marriage decision is comparable to Dred Scott because "what did Lincoln do" shows one does not understand history nor has basic common sense. he then couldn't provide a legitimate response to the follow up of the interracial marriage ban comparisons and basically said "they are not the same because I say so." Also the reason liberals weren't thrown in jail is because they weren't discriminating against people on this issue.

Stephanopolous lacked the basic common sense to understand that it is different than interracial marriage bans.

Dred Scott was wrong and an upheaval of 80 years of history and precedent. It was the Supreme Court legislating from the bench and it contributed greatly to the civil war. You can argue about whether the gay marriage decision was right or wrong, but it clearly upended over 230 years of history and precedent and involved the Supreme Court legislating from the bench.

Quote:Stephanopolous lacked the basic common sense to understand that it is different than interracial marriage bans.

You lack the basic common sense to realize that this is a question of opinion and nothing more. My generation strongly feels that there is no difference, and the number of people thinking along these lines will only continue to grow, and eventually it will become the accepted attitude.

DS is different because it 1) a regressive decision, 2) it was believed that the judges were not going to give him a fair hearing, and 3) the court ruled along partisan lines.

And if you are going to talk about Lincoln not enforcing it, then lets talk about the freaking rebellion which radically changed the legal dynamics of what the POTUS can and can not do. Not to mention the grey legal waters Lincoln consistently sailed through. The Emancipation Proclamation was a war measure. It would not have held up once the war ended. Hence the reason this whole conversation is so freaking stupid.

(09-06-2015 01:07 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 12:48 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  In order to maintain her religious integrity it seems to me that her only logical course of action is to resign her position as County Clerk of Court. I don't see any way should could continue as everyone has gone beyond the point of no return. If she doesn't resign she will either have to remain in jail until the general assembly comes back into session, when she will be impeached, or she will have to go against her faith and return to the office and abide by the law.

Maybe the judge will send her home and place her under house arrest or something, but he isn't going to relent in requiring her to follow the law. Maybe the assembly will come up with some sort of work around that keeps her in office without her name going on the licenses. But I doubt it.

The judge needs to be locked up.

Show me who was jailed when clerks defied the DOMA law, something that was an actual law. How many of those clerks who ILLEGALLY handed out same -sex marriage licenses went to jail.

You CAN NOT PICK AND CHOOSE which laws you will enforce, and those you wont.

There is already a remedy for the people. They can vote her out, or impeach her. The judge is illegally overstepping his bounds here. Again, show me all the other political hacks who have been jailed for failing to follow REAL ACTUAL LAWS.

There's a reason the judge is butthurt and overstepping his authority, because he knows that Kentucky kiled the same sex marriage act by 75%. The people wont vote her out. Th elegislature probably wont impeach her due to the will of the people. So he's going to step in.

Just remember, when the republicans take control of everything real soon, dont get all butthurt when your "side" is tossed in jail.

The judge hasn't done anything to get jailed for, and he is a federal judge with a lifetime appointment. I'm not sure why you insist on attacking him.

I simply offered opinion as to what the options for Davis are going forward and in fact have sympathy for her position. I don't know why you insist on making everything an, "us against them", "all or nothing" proposition.

(09-05-2015 09:52 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  The fact that she has lived a flawed life in no way takes away from her sincerity and faith at this point in her life. Her interpretation of what she believes is correct and proper based on her faith is such that she can't carry out the duties of the office as required by law. The answer is simply that she should resign from office.

She could have simply recused herself from the issue and delegated her Deputy to handle this duty. Their attorney said the Deputy was legally allowed to do so. I really could care less if she was sincere or not. SHE chose to take this battle on. SHE is suffering the consequences of something that she did not have to take on.

(09-06-2015 03:41 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(09-05-2015 09:52 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  The fact that she has lived a flawed life in no way takes away from her sincerity and faith at this point in her life. Her interpretation of what she believes is correct and proper based on her faith is such that she can't carry out the duties of the office as required by law. The answer is simply that she should resign from office.

I agree with your conclusion that if she could not deal with it she could resign. However I disagree with your first sentence that she has lived a flawed life. It is only flawed based on her current beliefs.

Few people have a problem with how she lived her life. How someone lives their life is their business unless they want to make it public, She made it public & claimed her perspective of Christian law.

We all live flawed lives.

(09-07-2015 09:38 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 01:07 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 12:48 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  In order to maintain her religious integrity it seems to me that her only logical course of action is to resign her position as County Clerk of Court. I don't see any way should could continue as everyone has gone beyond the point of no return. If she doesn't resign she will either have to remain in jail until the general assembly comes back into session, when she will be impeached, or she will have to go against her faith and return to the office and abide by the law.

Maybe the judge will send her home and place her under house arrest or something, but he isn't going to relent in requiring her to follow the law. Maybe the assembly will come up with some sort of work around that keeps her in office without her name going on the licenses. But I doubt it.

The judge needs to be locked up.

Show me who was jailed when clerks defied the DOMA law, something that was an actual law. How many of those clerks who ILLEGALLY handed out same -sex marriage licenses went to jail.

You CAN NOT PICK AND CHOOSE which laws you will enforce, and those you wont.

There is already a remedy for the people. They can vote her out, or impeach her. The judge is illegally overstepping his bounds here. Again, show me all the other political hacks who have been jailed for failing to follow REAL ACTUAL LAWS.

There's a reason the judge is butthurt and overstepping his authority, because he knows that Kentucky kiled the same sex marriage act by 75%. The people wont vote her out. Th elegislature probably wont impeach her due to the will of the people. So he's going to step in.

Just remember, when the republicans take control of everything real soon, dont get all butthurt when your "side" is tossed in jail.

The judge hasn't done anything to get jailed for, and he is a federal judge with a lifetime appointment. I'm not sure why you insist on attacking him.

I simply offered opinion as to what the options for Davis are going forward and in fact have sympathy for her position. I don't know why you insist on making everything an, "us against them", "all or nothing" proposition.

Its an us versus them because "they" got treated differently when "they" were actually breaking the law. The DOMA was the signed law of the land, yet you had liberal clerks breaking that law without nary a word. None of them got jailed.

This cleark IS NOT BREAKING THE LAW. There is no law passed on gay marriage. But even if there was, she is now being treated DIFFERENTLY than those who broke the law.

It is unfair treatment. And the judge is INJECTING HIMSELF into a situation he has no right to inject himself. As continuously stated, she is an elected official. If you dont like her judgement on how to handle marriage licenses, VOTE HER OUT. or IMPEACH her.

Those are the two options you have. But thats not going to happen, is it? 75% of the people support her, which means the legislature isnt going to go anywhere near an impeachment.

So when you liberals lose on the votes, and get overridden by the will of the people, you find a libturd lawyer in a robe who will do your bidding.

(09-07-2015 09:55 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 03:41 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(09-05-2015 09:52 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  The fact that she has lived a flawed life in no way takes away from her sincerity and faith at this point in her life. Her interpretation of what she believes is correct and proper based on her faith is such that she can't carry out the duties of the office as required by law. The answer is simply that she should resign from office.

I agree with your conclusion that if she could not deal with it she could resign. However I disagree with your first sentence that she has lived a flawed life. It is only flawed based on her current beliefs.

Few people have a problem with how she lived her life. How someone lives their life is their business unless they want to make it public, She made it public & claimed her perspective of Christian law.

We all live flawed lives.

She unnecessarily tossed stones in her own glass house. She tried to act as if she had no choice but to deny these people a marriage license because of her Christian beliefs. That is simply a lie. She had a choice. She could have just stepped aside and allowed her Deputy (who is doing it now) to handle this. She is a hypocrite and a liar.

(09-07-2015 10:00 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 09:55 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 03:41 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(09-05-2015 09:52 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  The fact that she has lived a flawed life in no way takes away from her sincerity and faith at this point in her life. Her interpretation of what she believes is correct and proper based on her faith is such that she can't carry out the duties of the office as required by law. The answer is simply that she should resign from office.

I agree with your conclusion that if she could not deal with it she could resign. However I disagree with your first sentence that she has lived a flawed life. It is only flawed based on her current beliefs.

Few people have a problem with how she lived her life. How someone lives their life is their business unless they want to make it public, She made it public & claimed her perspective of Christian law.

We all live flawed lives.

She unnecessarily tossed stones in her own glass house. She tried to act as if she had no choice but to deny these people a marriage license because of her Christian beliefs. That is simply a lie. She had a choice. She could have just stepped aside and allowed her Deputy (who is doing it now) to handle this. She is a hypocrite and a liar.

Let me know when Obama steps aside for not following the law on immigration, Obamacare, and a slew of other topics.

(09-06-2015 09:23 PM)john01992 Wrote:  

Quote:Stephanopolous lacked the basic common sense to understand that it is different than interracial marriage bans.

You lack the basic common sense to realize that this is a question of opinion and nothing more. My generation strongly feels that there is no difference, and the number of people thinking along these lines will only continue to grow, and eventually it will become the accepted attitude.

DS is different because it 1) a regressive decision, 2) it was believed that the judges were not going to give him a fair hearing, and 3) the court ruled along partisan lines.

And if you are going to talk about Lincoln not enforcing it, then lets talk about the freaking rebellion which radically changed the legal dynamics of what the POTUS can and can not do. Not to mention the grey legal waters Lincoln consistently sailed through. The Emancipation Proclamation was a war measure. It would not have held up once the war ended. Hence the reason this whole conversation is so freaking stupid.

What does "regressive" have to do with anything?
And it seems the court ruled on gay marriage very much on partisan lines. As for Dred Scott, partisan alignment was undergoing a huge upheaval at that time. Its hard to say what the parties were-American, Whig, Democrat, Republican.

Its actually the progressives who lack any common sense. Marriage between a man and a woman is clearly different than marriage between members of the same sex. That's not an opinion. That's an obvious fact.

Just because you don't think it should be treated differently and don't want it to be treated differently, doesn't mean its exactly the same. its not.

"Should" it be treated differently is an opinion. Being different is simply a fact.

(09-07-2015 10:02 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 10:00 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 09:55 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 03:41 PM)dcCid Wrote:  

(09-05-2015 09:52 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  The fact that she has lived a flawed life in no way takes away from her sincerity and faith at this point in her life. Her interpretation of what she believes is correct and proper based on her faith is such that she can't carry out the duties of the office as required by law. The answer is simply that she should resign from office.

I agree with your conclusion that if she could not deal with it she could resign. However I disagree with your first sentence that she has lived a flawed life. It is only flawed based on her current beliefs.

Few people have a problem with how she lived her life. How someone lives their life is their business unless they want to make it public, She made it public & claimed her perspective of Christian law.

We all live flawed lives.

She unnecessarily tossed stones in her own glass house. She tried to act as if she had no choice but to deny these people a marriage license because of her Christian beliefs. That is simply a lie. She had a choice. She could have just stepped aside and allowed her Deputy (who is doing it now) to handle this. She is a hypocrite and a liar.

Let me know when Obama steps aside for not following the law on immigration, Obamacare, and a slew of other topics.

Let me know where I have given him a pass on that. Unfortunately...There is not a fcking thing you and I can do about it.

(09-07-2015 11:18 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 10:02 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 10:00 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 09:55 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(09-06-2015 03:41 PM)dcCid Wrote:  I agree with your conclusion that if she could not deal with it she could resign. However I disagree with your first sentence that she has lived a flawed life. It is only flawed based on her current beliefs.

Few people have a problem with how she lived her life. How someone lives their life is their business unless they want to make it public, She made it public & claimed her perspective of Christian law.

We all live flawed lives.

She unnecessarily tossed stones in her own glass house. She tried to act as if she had no choice but to deny these people a marriage license because of her Christian beliefs. That is simply a lie. She had a choice. She could have just stepped aside and allowed her Deputy (who is doing it now) to handle this. She is a hypocrite and a liar.

Let me know when Obama steps aside for not following the law on immigration, Obamacare, and a slew of other topics.

Let me know where I have given him a pass on that. Unfortunately...There is not a fcking thing you and I can do about it.

Correct, because the remedy is to vote him out or impeach him. And the people of Kentucky have the same remedy. She doesnt have to step down. It is her judgement which is allowed, voted on by the people.

Apparently not.

(09-07-2015 11:24 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 11:18 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 10:02 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 10:00 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 09:55 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  We all live flawed lives.

She unnecessarily tossed stones in her own glass house. She tried to act as if she had no choice but to deny these people a marriage license because of her Christian beliefs. That is simply a lie. She had a choice. She could have just stepped aside and allowed her Deputy (who is doing it now) to handle this. She is a hypocrite and a liar.

Let me know when Obama steps aside for not following the law on immigration, Obamacare, and a slew of other topics.

Let me know where I have given him a pass on that. Unfortunately...There is not a fcking thing you and I can do about it.

Correct, because the remedy is to vote him out or impeach him. And the people of Kentucky have the same remedy. She doesnt have to step down. It is her judgement which is allowed, voted on by the people.

Obama has not violated any court orders.

(09-07-2015 09:45 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-05-2015 09:52 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  The fact that she has lived a flawed life in no way takes away from her sincerity and faith at this point in her life. Her interpretation of what she believes is correct and proper based on her faith is such that she can't carry out the duties of the office as required by law. The answer is simply that she should resign from office.

She could have simply recused herself from the issue and delegated her Deputy to handle this duty. Their attorney said the Deputy was legally allowed to do so. I really could care less if she was sincere or not. SHE chose to take this battle on. SHE is suffering the consequences of something that she did not have to take on.

I don't disagree with this. I think she feels that if she simply let a deputy handle it she would be condoning it and it would be no different than if she did it herself. That is why I believe that the only viable option she has is to resign her position. She is in her late 40s and has worked as a deputy courts clerk for most of her adult life. Now she is the elected clerk. The financial repercussions will be significance and that is probably why she doesn't just resign. But if you take a stand, like you said, it comes with consequences.

(09-07-2015 01:06 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 09:45 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-05-2015 09:52 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  The fact that she has lived a flawed life in no way takes away from her sincerity and faith at this point in her life. Her interpretation of what she believes is correct and proper based on her faith is such that she can't carry out the duties of the office as required by law. The answer is simply that she should resign from office.

She could have simply recused herself from the issue and delegated her Deputy to handle this duty. Their attorney said the Deputy was legally allowed to do so. I really could care less if she was sincere or not. SHE chose to take this battle on. SHE is suffering the consequences of something that she did not have to take on.

I don't disagree with this. I think she feels that if she simply let a deputy handle it she would be condoning it and it would be no different than if she did it herself. That is why I believe that the only viable option she has is to resign her position. She is in her late 40s and has worked as a deputy courts clerk for most of her adult life. Now she is the elected clerk. The financial repercussions will be significance and that is probably why she doesn't just resign. But if you take a stand, like you said, it comes with consequences.

She could have quietly handled this and avoided all the controversy. In fact...I don't think any one would have complained if she had simply recused herself and stepped aside for religious reasons. Honestly...It is a head scratcher to me.

(09-07-2015 11:24 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 11:18 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 10:02 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 10:00 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 09:55 AM)dawgitall Wrote:  We all live flawed lives.

She unnecessarily tossed stones in her own glass house. She tried to act as if she had no choice but to deny these people a marriage license because of her Christian beliefs. That is simply a lie. She had a choice. She could have just stepped aside and allowed her Deputy (who is doing it now) to handle this. She is a hypocrite and a liar.

Let me know when Obama steps aside for not following the law on immigration, Obamacare, and a slew of other topics.

Let me know where I have given him a pass on that. Unfortunately...There is not a fcking thing you and I can do about it.

Correct, because the remedy is to vote him out or impeach him. And the people of Kentucky have the same remedy. She doesnt have to step down. It is her judgement which is allowed, voted on by the people.

So is that why her happy ass is sitting in jail? Nope, it's because judgement is not allowed in following court orders...

(09-08-2015 11:37 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 11:24 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 11:18 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 10:02 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 10:00 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  She unnecessarily tossed stones in her own glass house. She tried to act as if she had no choice but to deny these people a marriage license because of her Christian beliefs. That is simply a lie. She had a choice. She could have just stepped aside and allowed her Deputy (who is doing it now) to handle this. She is a hypocrite and a liar.

Let me know when Obama steps aside for not following the law on immigration, Obamacare, and a slew of other topics.

Let me know where I have given him a pass on that. Unfortunately...There is not a fcking thing you and I can do about it.

Correct, because the remedy is to vote him out or impeach him. And the people of Kentucky have the same remedy. She doesnt have to step down. It is her judgement which is allowed, voted on by the people.

So is that why her happy ass is sitting in jail? Nope, it's because judgement is not allowed in following court orders...

Court orders are invalid if they do not follow the law.

(09-08-2015 12:24 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-08-2015 11:37 AM)UofMemphis Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 11:24 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 11:18 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(09-07-2015 10:02 AM)UofMstateU Wrote:  Let me know when Obama steps aside for not following the law on immigration, Obamacare, and a slew of other topics.

Let me know where I have given him a pass on that. Unfortunately...There is not a fcking thing you and I can do about it.

Correct, because the remedy is to vote him out or impeach him. And the people of Kentucky have the same remedy. She doesnt have to step down. It is her judgement which is allowed, voted on by the people.

So is that why her happy ass is sitting in jail? Nope, it's because judgement is not allowed in following court orders...

Court orders are invalid if they do not follow the law.

Apparently a judge has ordered that she be released from jail.

I think she should ignore this judicial ruling.