Hypothetical: XII announces it will take one more Texas team, in an expansion to 12.

Which of Houston, Rice or SMU has more political clout and deep pockets, to get their team into the conference?

Houston and not even close.

(09-01-2015 09:37 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Both conferences have a handful of programs that are really competitive as well as a group of essentially dead weight. One interesting difference is the MW is #1 in many of its markets (Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico) and #2 everywhere else but the AAC is really only #1 in Connecticut and in many cases the #3 conference (Texas, Florida).

True, but the population of Wyoming is like 9 people and Orlando/Tampa/Philly alone boast larger populations combined the New Mexico and Idaho. However, another central - pacific major conference would help represent the country and future population growth in the southwest. ECU, UCF, USF, Memphis, UC and Tulane to the Big12. Houston, SMU, BYU, and Tulsa/UTEP to MWC for the 6th major. UConn & ND to ACC. Split to Div 4., 8 team playoff, 6 autos, 2 at large. Peace, love, applesauce.

(09-01-2015 09:51 PM)1845 Bear Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 10:51 AM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Actually, that's a pretty solid well rounded piece on the Big-12 situation.

Well rounded pieces on the Big 12 don't involve quoting Clay Travis.

Exactly! He was wrong on a few minor points before that, but his credibility went out the window when it turned into a Clay Travis interview.

(09-01-2015 08:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 06:45 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 10:01 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Currently, Houston plays in the American Athletic Conference,[i] a grouping that is considered the best of the non-power conferences ...

By whom???

MWC>than AAC overall in my books.

I think we can all agree the MWC has the best team (Boise State) but the AAC is a deeper league.

The dropoff is fairly considerable once you get past the top couple of teams in the MWC.

The dropoff is less severe in the AAC.

Yes, we both have bad teams but the list is longer in the MWC. Plus no school is joining the MWC with the crappy Boise TV deal they have now.

(09-02-2015 11:27 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 09:37 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Both conferences have a handful of programs that are really competitive as well as a group of essentially dead weight. One interesting difference is the MW is #1 in many of its markets (Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico) and #2 everywhere else but the AAC is really only #1 in Connecticut and in many cases the #3 conference (Texas, Florida).

True, but the population of Wyoming is like 9 people and Orlando/Tampa/Philly alone boast larger populations combined the New Mexico and Idaho.

To push this point a little further:

Wyoming = 584K
Idaho = 1.63M
New Mexico = 2.08M
Nevada = 2.83M

Total = 7.124M population

Philadelphia Metro/Statistical Area = 7.164M

DFW Metro = 6.954M

Houston Metro = 6.313M

Orlando Metro/Statistical Area = 2.975M

Tampa Metro = 2.82M

(09-02-2015 12:12 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 11:27 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 09:37 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Both conferences have a handful of programs that are really competitive as well as a group of essentially dead weight. One interesting difference is the MW is #1 in many of its markets (Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico) and #2 everywhere else but the AAC is really only #1 in Connecticut and in many cases the #3 conference (Texas, Florida).

True, but the population of Wyoming is like 9 people and Orlando/Tampa/Philly alone boast larger populations combined the New Mexico and Idaho.

To push this point a little further:

Wyoming = 584K
Idaho = 1.63M
New Mexico = 2.08M
Nevada = 2.83M

Total = 7.124M population

Philadelphia Metro/Statistical Area = 7.164M

DFW Metro = 6.954M

Houston Metro = 6.313M

Orlando Metro/Statistical Area = 2.975M

Tampa Metro = 2.82M

And even further:

Wyoming = 584K
Idaho = 1.63M
New Mexico = 2.08M
Nevada = 2.83M
Colorado = 5.35M
Utah = 2.94M
Hawaii = 1.41M
San Diego = 3.095M
San Jose = 1.95M
Fresno = 930K

Total = 22.799M population

Philadelphia Metro/Statistical Area = 7.164M
DFW Metro = 6.954M
Houston Metro = 6.313M
Orlando Metro/Statistical Area = 2.975M
Tampa Metro = 2.82M
Cincinnati = 2.13M
Memphis = 1.34M
New Orleans = 1.24M
Hartford = 1.21M
Tulsa = 961K
Greenville = 174K
Annapolis = 38K

Total = 33.32M

(09-02-2015 11:09 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Houston and not even close.

Rice and SMU don't have political connections and deep pocket donors?

(09-02-2015 12:37 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 11:09 AM)bluesox Wrote:  Houston and not even close.

Rice and SMU don't have political connections and deep pocket donors?

Deep pockets, but not much political clout. The Governor and Lt. Governor, both want us in the Big12, plus we have a number of elected State officials that graduated from UH. When the SWC broke up we had very little State support, now we have much more than we did 20 years ago.

But still not enough to get you in

(09-02-2015 12:51 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  But still not enough to get you in

Maybe, maybe not.

(09-02-2015 12:51 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  But still not enough to get you in

Depends if Texas is still in the conference!

(09-02-2015 12:21 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 12:12 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 11:27 AM)FrancisDrake Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 09:37 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Both conferences have a handful of programs that are really competitive as well as a group of essentially dead weight. One interesting difference is the MW is #1 in many of its markets (Idaho, Wyoming, Nevada, New Mexico) and #2 everywhere else but the AAC is really only #1 in Connecticut and in many cases the #3 conference (Texas, Florida).

True, but the population of Wyoming is like 9 people and Orlando/Tampa/Philly alone boast larger populations combined the New Mexico and Idaho.

To push this point a little further:

Wyoming = 584K
Idaho = 1.63M
New Mexico = 2.08M
Nevada = 2.83M

Total = 7.124M population

Philadelphia Metro/Statistical Area = 7.164M

DFW Metro = 6.954M

Houston Metro = 6.313M

Orlando Metro/Statistical Area = 2.975M

Tampa Metro = 2.82M

And even further:

Wyoming = 584K
Idaho = 1.63M
New Mexico = 2.08M
Nevada = 2.83M
Colorado = 5.35M
Utah = 2.94M
Hawaii = 1.41M
San Diego = 3.095M
San Jose = 1.95M
Fresno = 930K

Total = 22.799M population

Philadelphia Metro/Statistical Area = 7.164M
DFW Metro = 6.954M
Houston Metro = 6.313M
Orlando Metro/Statistical Area = 2.975M
Tampa Metro = 2.82M
Cincinnati = 2.13M
Memphis = 1.34M
New Orleans = 1.24M
Hartford = 1.21M
Tulsa = 961K
Greenville = 174K
Annapolis = 38K

Total = 33.32M

Wait.

You counted the whole state of Utah for Utah St? You counted all of Colorado for Colorado St?

But UConn (flagship and only FBS school in state) only brings Hartford?

Further, Annapolis is 30 miles from both DC and Baltimore and is included in that metro area.

Plus, population doesn't matter anyway. It's TV households.

And then you have to look at buying power of those households, etc.

(09-02-2015 01:12 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 12:21 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 12:12 PM)YNot Wrote:  To push this point a little further:

Wyoming = 584K
Idaho = 1.63M
New Mexico = 2.08M
Nevada = 2.83M

Total = 7.124M population

Philadelphia Metro/Statistical Area = 7.164M

DFW Metro = 6.954M

Houston Metro = 6.313M

Orlando Metro/Statistical Area = 2.975M

Tampa Metro = 2.82M

And even further:

Wyoming = 584K
Idaho = 1.63M
New Mexico = 2.08M
Nevada = 2.83M
Colorado = 5.35M
Utah = 2.94M
Hawaii = 1.41M
San Diego = 3.095M
San Jose = 1.95M
Fresno = 930K

Total = 22.799M population

Philadelphia Metro/Statistical Area = 7.164M
DFW Metro = 6.954M
Houston Metro = 6.313M
Orlando Metro/Statistical Area = 2.975M
Tampa Metro = 2.82M
Cincinnati = 2.13M
Memphis = 1.34M
New Orleans = 1.24M
Hartford = 1.21M
Tulsa = 961K
Greenville = 174K
Annapolis = 38K

Total = 33.32M

Wait.

You counted the whole state of Utah for Utah St? You counted all of Colorado for Colorado St?

But UConn (flagship and only FBS school in state) only brings Hartford?

Further, Annapolis is 30 miles from both DC and Baltimore and is included in that metro area.

Exactly. Thank you for helping me make the point. Even when you give the MWC the entire states of Hawaii, Wyoming, New Mexico, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, and Nevada and the AAC only the metro areas in which their members actually reside - the AAC still wins by a nice margin.

(09-02-2015 01:47 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 01:12 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 12:21 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 12:12 PM)YNot Wrote:  To push this point a little further:

Wyoming = 584K
Idaho = 1.63M
New Mexico = 2.08M
Nevada = 2.83M

Total = 7.124M population

Philadelphia Metro/Statistical Area = 7.164M

DFW Metro = 6.954M

Houston Metro = 6.313M

Orlando Metro/Statistical Area = 2.975M

Tampa Metro = 2.82M

And even further:

Wyoming = 584K
Idaho = 1.63M
New Mexico = 2.08M
Nevada = 2.83M
Colorado = 5.35M
Utah = 2.94M
Hawaii = 1.41M
San Diego = 3.095M
San Jose = 1.95M
Fresno = 930K

Total = 22.799M population

Philadelphia Metro/Statistical Area = 7.164M
DFW Metro = 6.954M
Houston Metro = 6.313M
Orlando Metro/Statistical Area = 2.975M
Tampa Metro = 2.82M
Cincinnati = 2.13M
Memphis = 1.34M
New Orleans = 1.24M
Hartford = 1.21M
Tulsa = 961K
Greenville = 174K
Annapolis = 38K

Total = 33.32M

Wait.

You counted the whole state of Utah for Utah St? You counted all of Colorado for Colorado St?

But UConn (flagship and only FBS school in state) only brings Hartford?

Further, Annapolis is 30 miles from both DC and Baltimore and is included in that metro area.

Exactly. Thank you for helping me make the point. Even when you give the MWC the entire states of Hawaii, Wyoming, New Mexico, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, and Nevada and the AAC only the metro areas in which their members actually reside - the AAC still wins by a nice margin.

Why discuss market areas at all, as if all of these markets are chock-full of diehard viewers of all of these teams? Any argument about not "counting" Colorado's population for CSU would have to apply 1000x over to the flawed argument of counting the entire ginormous multi-state "Philadelphia region" as Temple territory.

(09-02-2015 01:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 12:51 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  But still not enough to get you in

Depends if Texas is still in the conference!

Oh, I think a lot of you out-of-staters have misjudged the present relationship between UT and UH. A lot has changed in the past 15 years, including administrations that get along with each other.

(09-02-2015 11:55 AM)GO Coogs GO!!! Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 08:47 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 06:45 PM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(09-01-2015 10:01 AM)GoldenWarrior11 Wrote:  Currently, Houston plays in the American Athletic Conference,[i] a grouping that is considered the best of the non-power conferences ...

By whom???

MWC>than AAC overall in my books.

I think we can all agree the MWC has the best team (Boise State) but the AAC is a deeper league.

The dropoff is fairly considerable once you get past the top couple of teams in the MWC.

The dropoff is less severe in the AAC.

Yes, we both have bad teams but the list is longer in the MWC. Plus no school is joining the MWC with the crappy Boise TV deal they have now.

Actually, Hawaii got a BCS bowl birth. They have improved last year, and I think they will contend this year.
Fresno State had a bad year after Derick Carr left. They will bounce back.
UNR have been near the top, and have beaten Boise State on the Smurf Turf.
San Diego State, Air Force, Colorado State and Wyoming have been competitive. New Mexico, San Jose State and UNLV have been like a Yo-Yo the last few years.

Wyoming with the North Dakota State's former head coach could turn that program around.

U. Conn have been missing the last several years. USF have disappeared. Tulane only got one good year once every blue moon. SMU still have not found their footing after the death penelty. Temple have never got past the 7-5 mark, and been left out of bowl games.

(09-02-2015 01:59 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 01:47 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 01:12 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 12:21 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(09-02-2015 12:12 PM)YNot Wrote:  To push this point a little further:

Wyoming = 584K
Idaho = 1.63M
New Mexico = 2.08M
Nevada = 2.83M

Total = 7.124M population

Philadelphia Metro/Statistical Area = 7.164M

DFW Metro = 6.954M

Houston Metro = 6.313M

Orlando Metro/Statistical Area = 2.975M

Tampa Metro = 2.82M

And even further:

Wyoming = 584K
Idaho = 1.63M
New Mexico = 2.08M
Nevada = 2.83M
Colorado = 5.35M
Utah = 2.94M
Hawaii = 1.41M
San Diego = 3.095M
San Jose = 1.95M
Fresno = 930K

Total = 22.799M population

Philadelphia Metro/Statistical Area = 7.164M
DFW Metro = 6.954M
Houston Metro = 6.313M
Orlando Metro/Statistical Area = 2.975M
Tampa Metro = 2.82M
Cincinnati = 2.13M
Memphis = 1.34M
New Orleans = 1.24M
Hartford = 1.21M
Tulsa = 961K
Greenville = 174K
Annapolis = 38K

Total = 33.32M

Wait.

You counted the whole state of Utah for Utah St? You counted all of Colorado for Colorado St?

But UConn (flagship and only FBS school in state) only brings Hartford?

Further, Annapolis is 30 miles from both DC and Baltimore and is included in that metro area.

Exactly. Thank you for helping me make the point. Even when you give the MWC the entire states of Hawaii, Wyoming, New Mexico, Idaho, Utah, Colorado, and Nevada and the AAC only the metro areas in which their members actually reside - the AAC still wins by a nice margin.

Why discuss market areas at all, as if all of these markets are chock-full of diehard viewers of all of these teams? Any argument about not "counting" Colorado's population for CSU would have to apply 1000x over to the flawed argument of counting the entire ginormous multi-state "Philadelphia region" as Temple territory.

I have seen the TV ratings for the MWC schools and I am impress that Wyoming do get over a million viewers tuned in to watch their games. MWC teams are more recognizable to the country than several of the Sun Belt and C-USA schools that have been brought up recently.

(09-02-2015 01:16 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  Plus, population doesn't matter anyway. It's TV households.

And then you have to look at buying power of those households, etc.

Nope. If that was the case Uconn would be in a power conference. Much higher per capita income than places like Iowa who support 2 power conference teams, and Connecticut can't support one. The difference is fan numbers. How many people will either turn on the TV or show up in person to watch. That is what will always be valuable as those fans are willing to pay to watch their team play.

The days of adding Rutgers to charge all the people in NJ who do not care about college football are going to come to an end at some point.

Schools with real fans will always have value.