(08-19-2015 12:36 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Amen. Everyone blames the country's education woes on everyone except.....the teachers.

I thought it was just the opposite. The first people to be blamed are usually the teachers.

(08-19-2015 09:38 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 09:37 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:58 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The whole system ruins education, the teachers, the unions, the administration, the politicians, the ones screaming accountability, and more.

Private school or bust

Don't forget the parents. They are most to blame, IMO. I'll leave this here:

Thank you for that. This is exactly what we deal with on a daily basis.

On top of that, the rules change every year. I just went through 6 days of training on all the legislative changes for this school year.

Hard to win the game when they keep changing the rules.

I'm going to give you a serious response to this.....only b/c you're right....

the game is changing too fast....and it's unsustainable....

I left corp 'murica yrs ago....granted, they are different arenas, but they are similar in scope....it became too frustrating....

you are behind the 8-ball in that position.....and you are like most trying to get to the finish line.....and that's okay....

keep up the faith......just open your eyes sometimes along the way.....it helps.....sometimes listening to others can help one change others' lives too.....isn't that what educating others is all about?

(08-19-2015 09:56 PM)stinkfist Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 09:38 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 09:37 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:58 PM)EverRespect Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:54 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The whole system ruins education, the teachers, the unions, the administration, the politicians, the ones screaming accountability, and more.

Private school or bust

Don't forget the parents. They are most to blame, IMO. I'll leave this here:

Thank you for that. This is exactly what we deal with on a daily basis.

On top of that, the rules change every year. I just went through 6 days of training on all the legislative changes for this school year.

Hard to win the game when they keep changing the rules.

I'm going to give you a serious response to this.....only b/c you're right....

the game is changing too fast....and it's unsustainable....

I left corp 'murica yrs ago....granted, they are different arenas, but they are similar in scope....it became too frustrating....

you are behind the 8-ball in that position.....and you are like most trying to get to the finish line.....and that's okay....

keep up the faith......just open your eyes sometimes along the way.....it helps.....sometimes listening to others can help one change others' lives too.....isn't that what educating others is all about?

Any place where the people making the rules have no experience in the positions they change the rules for is like that.

My very employer is the reason I hate bureaucracies.

(08-19-2015 09:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:36 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Amen. Everyone blames the country's education woes on everyone except.....the teachers.

I thought it was just the opposite. The first people to be blamed are usually the teachers.

People always blame teachers first. When I was a kid, teachers were heros. Now we are the enemy.

(08-20-2015 12:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 09:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:36 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Amen. Everyone blames the country's education woes on everyone except.....the teachers.

I thought it was just the opposite. The first people to be blamed are usually the teachers.

People always blame teachers first. When I was a kid, teachers were heros. Now we are the enemy.

Not if you are a good teacher.

(08-19-2015 09:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:36 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Amen. Everyone blames the country's education woes on everyone except.....the teachers.

I thought it was just the opposite. The first people to be blamed are usually the teachers.

When people say "teachers" they really mean "teacher unions."

Ohio is one of the states that has specific guidelines for providing funding above normal standards for gifted programs. I've posted on here before that the biggest problem with American education is that we don't do enough to encourage and challenge the truly gifted. I'm happy to see that Ohio recognizes this fact.

If a Republican Presidential could add a component to their platform to increase funding for gifted students, and use it as a wedge issue, it could be a winning argument with the all important independents.

Adendum: After I posted this, I did a little research and found that a number of states do have special funding for the gifted. More to come.

OK, after doing the research, I've found that the Federal government has no policy to support gifted education. Here again I see a wedge issue Republicans could use.

The breakdown by states is summarized as follows:

.gifted programs are mandated and fully funded by the state (Georgia, Mississippi, Okla and Iowa)
.23 states mandate and partially fund
.only 8 states do not mandate gifted education and provide no funding.

The 8 that do nothing are: NY. Mass, NH, Vt, De, RI, Mich, Ill and Mizzou. No surprise that these states' politicians have a strong union backing.

Link

I guess that is why the gifted students are the only ones really being well served (speaking for Virginia here).

(08-20-2015 12:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 09:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:36 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Amen. Everyone blames the country's education woes on everyone except.....the teachers.

I thought it was just the opposite. The first people to be blamed are usually the teachers.

People always blame teachers first. When I was a kid, teachers were heros. Now we are the enemy.

Heroes? Wow.

That's a really watered down term these days.

(08-20-2015 07:29 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 09:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:36 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Amen. Everyone blames the country's education woes on everyone except.....the teachers.

I thought it was just the opposite. The first people to be blamed are usually the teachers.

When people say "teachers" they really mean "teacher unions."

Teachers have a big part in the problem. Why are they not out screaming about too many administrator and wasted money? Instead they tell us that a half million dollars for a class of 22 kids in Minneapolis is not enough.

(08-20-2015 08:26 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 07:29 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 09:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:36 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Amen. Everyone blames the country's education woes on everyone except.....the teachers.

I thought it was just the opposite. The first people to be blamed are usually the teachers.

When people say "teachers" they really mean "teacher unions."

Teachers have a big part in the problem. Why are they not out screaming about too many administrator and wasted money? Instead they tell us that a half million dollars for a class of 22 kids in Minneapolis is not enough.

Because they fear for their jobs if they do. I'm sure many teachers are disgusted by the waste, but they have kids to feed also.

(08-20-2015 08:30 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 08:26 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 07:29 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 09:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:36 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Amen. Everyone blames the country's education woes on everyone except.....the teachers.

I thought it was just the opposite. The first people to be blamed are usually the teachers.

When people say "teachers" they really mean "teacher unions."

Teachers have a big part in the problem. Why are they not out screaming about too many administrator and wasted money? Instead they tell us that a half million dollars for a class of 22 kids in Minneapolis is not enough.

Because they fear for their jobs if they do. I'm sure many teachers are disgusted by the waste, but they have kids to feed also.

I agree and will add a little more.

Bull could ask that question to just about any job in America. Why does the infantry soldier not complain about too many bureaucrats, contractors, and wasted money? Why doesn't the call center employee complain about the same? When you're expendable, you don't have the ability to do these things without ramifications.

Another reason is that they probably don't know the impact of administrators (I'm not counting vice-principals, I'm talking those people in the State and County offices) or waste because they aren't privy to that information.

(08-20-2015 08:44 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 08:30 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 08:26 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 07:29 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 09:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  I thought it was just the opposite. The first people to be blamed are usually the teachers.

When people say "teachers" they really mean "teacher unions."

Teachers have a big part in the problem. Why are they not out screaming about too many administrator and wasted money? Instead they tell us that a half million dollars for a class of 22 kids in Minneapolis is not enough.

Because they fear for their jobs if they do. I'm sure many teachers are disgusted by the waste, but they have kids to feed also.

I agree and will add a little more.

Bull could ask that question to just about any job in America. Why does the infantry soldier not complain about too many bureaucrats, contractors, and wasted money? Why doesn't the call center employee complain about the same? When you're expendable, you don't have the ability to do these things without ramifications.

Another reason is that they probably don't know the impact of administrators (I'm not counting vice-principals, I'm talking those people in the State and County offices) or waste because they aren't privy to that information.

hmm... I would argue they do. All one has to do is look at how private union employees (ie. your Teamsters and Auto Workers) constantly complain about CEO and executive salaries. Ask an auto worker why companies like Ford and GM are not the companies they once were and they will point the finger squarely at mismanagement by the leaders of their company. Teachers on the other hand simply argue more money needs to be thrown at the problem.

(08-20-2015 09:07 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 08:44 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 08:30 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 08:26 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 07:29 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  When people say "teachers" they really mean "teacher unions."

Teachers have a big part in the problem. Why are they not out screaming about too many administrator and wasted money? Instead they tell us that a half million dollars for a class of 22 kids in Minneapolis is not enough.

Because they fear for their jobs if they do. I'm sure many teachers are disgusted by the waste, but they have kids to feed also.

I agree and will add a little more.

Bull could ask that question to just about any job in America. Why does the infantry soldier not complain about too many bureaucrats, contractors, and wasted money? Why doesn't the call center employee complain about the same? When you're expendable, you don't have the ability to do these things without ramifications.

Another reason is that they probably don't know the impact of administrators (I'm not counting vice-principals, I'm talking those people in the State and County offices) or waste because they aren't privy to that information.

hmm... I would argue they do. All one has to do is look at how private union employees (ie. your Teamsters and Auto Workers) constantly complain about CEO and executive salaries. Ask an auto worker why companies like Ford and GM are not the companies they once were and they will point the finger squarely at mismanagement by the leaders of their company. Teachers on the other hand simply argue more money needs to be thrown at the problem.

That's because unions are about management vs. the worker. Since NC doesn't have a teacher's union it isn't administrator vs. teacher, it's about the perceived lack of resources.

Also look at the private non-union employees at the bottom of the pile. They may complain about management, but they'll only go so far because even encouraging discussion can get you fired.

(08-20-2015 09:07 AM)CliftonAve Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 08:44 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 08:30 AM)VA49er Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 08:26 AM)Bull_In_Exile Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 07:29 AM)QuestionSocratic Wrote:  When people say "teachers" they really mean "teacher unions."

Teachers have a big part in the problem. Why are they not out screaming about too many administrator and wasted money? Instead they tell us that a half million dollars for a class of 22 kids in Minneapolis is not enough.

Because they fear for their jobs if they do. I'm sure many teachers are disgusted by the waste, but they have kids to feed also.

I agree and will add a little more.

Bull could ask that question to just about any job in America. Why does the infantry soldier not complain about too many bureaucrats, contractors, and wasted money? Why doesn't the call center employee complain about the same? When you're expendable, you don't have the ability to do these things without ramifications.

Another reason is that they probably don't know the impact of administrators (I'm not counting vice-principals, I'm talking those people in the State and County offices) or waste because they aren't privy to that information.

hmm... I would argue they do. All one has to do is look at how private union employees (ie. your Teamsters and Auto Workers) constantly complain about CEO and executive salaries. Ask an auto worker why companies like Ford and GM are not the companies they once were and they will point the finger squarely at mismanagement by the leaders of their company. Teachers on the other hand simply argue more money needs to be thrown at the problem.

Not the teachers I know. They also argue that money is being misspent. They see it every day.

The money is mostly misspent, in my opinion, on administration. Administrations that are largely made up of unqualified teachers who were put there to get them out of the classroom and people who really know nothing about what it means to teach.

To illustrate my point, there are as many BMWs and Benzes in the Montgomery Public School's main administration building as there are at the parking deck where I park, mostly law firms. The nicer the cars, the crappier the district.

(08-20-2015 12:42 PM)HeartOfDixie Wrote:  The money is mostly misspent, in my opinion, on administration. Administrations that are largely made up of unqualified teachers who were put there to get them out of the classroom and people who really know nothing about what it means to teach.
To illustrate my point, there are as many BMWs and Benzes in the Montgomery Public School's main administration building as there are at the parking deck where I park, mostly law firms. The nicer the cars, the crappier the district.

Absolutely.

(08-20-2015 05:30 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(08-20-2015 12:04 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 09:55 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:36 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  Amen. Everyone blames the country's education woes on everyone except.....the teachers.

I thought it was just the opposite. The first people to be blamed are usually the teachers.

People always blame teachers first. When I was a kid, teachers were heros. Now we are the enemy.

Not if you are a good teacher.

I'm a damn good teacher.

(08-19-2015 09:53 PM)dfarr Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 09:19 PM)chess Wrote:  

(08-19-2015 12:56 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  This is the president of the Chicago Teachers Union. Her neckfat puts John Madden to shame.

Karen Lewis had a brain tumor. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local...story.html

Brain tumors don't make you 300+lbs

Brain Farts Can !