Well, you can't sign great players if you don't recruit them. Rockets just offered Musa Jallow, a 2018 prospect from Bloomington, IN. It's his first offer, but check out the highlights as I'd expect him to become a top 100 recruit. Gotta like the staff identifying rising talent early and getting in the door first. you never know.

http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/musa-jallow

I heard some interesting tidbits from a source that is very close to the coach who was not on the staff very long at UT - and is now back at his alma mater. The merry-go-round with players is likely to continue.

(08-06-2015 03:48 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  I heard some interesting tidbits from a source that is very close to the coach who was not on the staff very long at UT - and is now back at his alma mater. The merry-go-round with players is likely to continue.

Kinda like the same coaching merry-go-round your "source" has been traveling? Sorry, not a lot of validity with me from someone that is constantly changing venues.

(08-06-2015 11:45 AM)letsgoblue Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 03:48 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  I heard some interesting tidbits from a source that is very close to the coach who was not on the staff very long at UT - and is now back at his alma mater. The merry-go-round with players is likely to continue.

Kinda like the same coaching merry-go-round your "source" has been traveling? Sorry, not a lot of validity with me from someone that is constantly changing venues.

am I supposed to care about getting validation from you??

(08-06-2015 11:45 AM)letsgoblue Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 03:48 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  I heard some interesting tidbits from a source that is very close to the coach who was not on the staff very long at UT - and is now back at his alma mater. The merry-go-round with players is likely to continue.

Kinda like the same coaching merry-go-round your "source" has been traveling? Sorry, not a lot of validity with me from someone that is constantly changing venues.

The fuchsia fox fell fifty fathoms from father's famous fish fry.

(08-06-2015 11:45 AM)letsgoblue Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 03:48 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  I heard some interesting tidbits from a source that is very close to the coach who was not on the staff very long at UT - and is now back at his alma mater. The merry-go-round with players is likely to continue.

Kinda like the same coaching merry-go-round your "source" has been traveling? Sorry, not a lot of validity with me from someone that is constantly changing venues.

If that guys lips are loving he is lying

Wish people would stop speaking in code.

Sounds like they're talking about Stacey, but I can't believe he's close to K after his failure to live up to his commitment at hiring. So maybe not- saying there will be more player movement in a college program is kinda like saying there will be algae blooms in Lake Erie. No great revelation.

(08-06-2015 05:23 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 11:45 AM)letsgoblue Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 03:48 AM)MotoRocket Wrote:  I heard some interesting tidbits from a source that is very close to the coach who was not on the staff very long at UT - and is now back at his alma mater. The merry-go-round with players is likely to continue.

Kinda like the same coaching merry-go-round your "source" has been traveling? Sorry, not a lot of validity with me from someone that is constantly changing venues.

am I supposed to care about getting validation from you??

Nope.....but I don't care that you don't care. Ha
Go Rockets!!!!!

(08-06-2015 10:01 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Sounds like they're talking about Stacey, but I can't believe he's close to K after his failure to live up to his commitment at hiring. So maybe not- saying there will be more player movement in a college program is kinda like saying there will be algae blooms in Lake Erie. No great revelation.

(08-07-2015 09:36 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 10:01 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Sounds like they're talking about Stacey, but I can't believe he's close to K after his failure to live up to his commitment at hiring. So maybe not- saying there will be more player movement in a college program is kinda like saying there will be algae blooms in Lake Erie. No great revelation.

It came from someone I've know for 38 years who also played pro ball in Europe and is close to Stacey and Joplin and others. I'm not sure what is meant by Stacey not living up to his commitment (other than in his statement below when he left). He quit because of the issues he had dealing with the coach and how he treated the players he was trying to develop. The comment he made upon his decision to leave was crafted to not reveal any issues. K said very little other than wishing him the best. There definitely was a lot of friction immediately. He did not thank K for the opportunity for a reason.

Not sure why anyone is enamored with K. The games I have seen him coach - which is limited to about 3 - were all losses and the team looked like they just wanted to get it over with and go home. They were not motivated and my other limited view is that I don't really see any players that have developed over their career - except maybe Boothe.

I don't follow MBB enough to really care one way or another, but I did find it interesting to hear what was communicated in a very matter-of-fact manner with no animosity. He just couldn't deal with the guy - so it probably worked out good for both of them in the long run.

Stacey: "At this time, I can’t fully commit myself to the program the way I need to due to personal reasons,” Stacey said in a release. “I’m going to miss the players I got to know during my time on the staff, and I wish the team nothing but the best"

(08-07-2015 10:03 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(08-07-2015 09:36 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 10:01 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Sounds like they're talking about Stacey, but I can't believe he's close to K after his failure to live up to his commitment at hiring. So maybe not- saying there will be more player movement in a college program is kinda like saying there will be algae blooms in Lake Erie. No great revelation.

It came from someone I've know for 30 years who also played pro ball in Europe and is close to Stacey and Joplin and others. I'm not sure what is meant by Stacey not living up to his commitment (other than in his statement below when he left). He quit because of the issues he had dealing with the coach and how he treated the players he was trying to develop. The comment he made upon his decision to leave was crafted to not reveal any issues. K said very little other than wishing him the best. There definitely was a lot of friction immediately. He did not thank K for the opportunity for a reason.

Not sure why anyone is enamored with K. The games I have seen him coach - which is limited to about 3 - were all losses and the team looked like they just wanted to get it over with and go home. They were not motivated and my other limited view is that I don't really see any players that have developed over their career - except maybe Boothe.

I don't follow MBB enough to really care one way or another, but I did find it interesting to hear what was communicated in a very matter-of-fact manner with no animosity. He just couldn't deal with the guy - so it probably worked out good for both of them in the long run.

Stacey: "At this time, I can’t fully commit myself to the program the way I need to due to personal reasons,” Stacey said in a release. “I’m going to miss the players I got to know during my time on the staff, and I wish the team nothing but the best"

Hmmm...that contradicts what I heard, which was that Stacey didn't provide TK with a reason, other than it was personal stuff going on, and TK didn't really press to know why, and doesn't really know why he left.

Also, if Stacey didn't agree with TK's coaching methods/etc., that doesn't mean that TK is a bad coach or something, it could jsut be that they have different coaching styles.

(08-07-2015 10:47 PM)Rocket4Life Wrote:  

(08-07-2015 10:03 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(08-07-2015 09:36 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 10:01 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Sounds like they're talking about Stacey, but I can't believe he's close to K after his failure to live up to his commitment at hiring. So maybe not- saying there will be more player movement in a college program is kinda like saying there will be algae blooms in Lake Erie. No great revelation.

It came from someone I've know for 30 years who also played pro ball in Europe and is close to Stacey and Joplin and others. I'm not sure what is meant by Stacey not living up to his commitment (other than in his statement below when he left). He quit because of the issues he had dealing with the coach and how he treated the players he was trying to develop. The comment he made upon his decision to leave was crafted to not reveal any issues. K said very little other than wishing him the best. There definitely was a lot of friction immediately. He did not thank K for the opportunity for a reason.

Not sure why anyone is enamored with K. The games I have seen him coach - which is limited to about 3 - were all losses and the team looked like they just wanted to get it over with and go home. They were not motivated and my other limited view is that I don't really see any players that have developed over their career - except maybe Boothe.

I don't follow MBB enough to really care one way or another, but I did find it interesting to hear what was communicated in a very matter-of-fact manner with no animosity. He just couldn't deal with the guy - so it probably worked out good for both of them in the long run.

Stacey: "At this time, I can’t fully commit myself to the program the way I need to due to personal reasons,” Stacey said in a release. “I’m going to miss the players I got to know during my time on the staff, and I wish the team nothing but the best"

Hmmm...that contradicts what I heard, which was that Stacey didn't provide TK with a reason, other than it was personal stuff going on, and TK didn't really press to know why, and doesn't really know why he left.

Also, if Stacey didn't agree with TK's coaching methods/etc., that doesn't mean that TK is a bad coach or something, it could jsut be that they have different coaching styles.

I don't think it contradicts anything you heard - Stacey just could not deal with him and did not want to be around him. Personality clash and he just did not like the way K dealt with the players, which he described as bizarre and inconsistent. My opinion is that I don't think K is a very good coach - from what I've seen. Haven't been impressed with the offense they try to run nor with their hustle/will to win. Maybe it will get better. Hope so.

(08-07-2015 10:54 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(08-07-2015 10:47 PM)Rocket4Life Wrote:  

(08-07-2015 10:03 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(08-07-2015 09:36 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  

(08-06-2015 10:01 PM)H2Oville Rocket Wrote:  Sounds like they're talking about Stacey, but I can't believe he's close to K after his failure to live up to his commitment at hiring. So maybe not- saying there will be more player movement in a college program is kinda like saying there will be algae blooms in Lake Erie. No great revelation.

It came from someone I've know for 30 years who also played pro ball in Europe and is close to Stacey and Joplin and others. I'm not sure what is meant by Stacey not living up to his commitment (other than in his statement below when he left). He quit because of the issues he had dealing with the coach and how he treated the players he was trying to develop. The comment he made upon his decision to leave was crafted to not reveal any issues. K said very little other than wishing him the best. There definitely was a lot of friction immediately. He did not thank K for the opportunity for a reason.

Not sure why anyone is enamored with K. The games I have seen him coach - which is limited to about 3 - were all losses and the team looked like they just wanted to get it over with and go home. They were not motivated and my other limited view is that I don't really see any players that have developed over their career - except maybe Boothe.

I don't follow MBB enough to really care one way or another, but I did find it interesting to hear what was communicated in a very matter-of-fact manner with no animosity. He just couldn't deal with the guy - so it probably worked out good for both of them in the long run.

Stacey: "At this time, I can’t fully commit myself to the program the way I need to due to personal reasons,” Stacey said in a release. “I’m going to miss the players I got to know during my time on the staff, and I wish the team nothing but the best"

Hmmm...that contradicts what I heard, which was that Stacey didn't provide TK with a reason, other than it was personal stuff going on, and TK didn't really press to know why, and doesn't really know why he left.

Also, if Stacey didn't agree with TK's coaching methods/etc., that doesn't mean that TK is a bad coach or something, it could jsut be that they have different coaching styles.

I don't think it contradicts anything you heard - Stacey just could not deal with him and did not want to be around him. Personality clash and he just did not like the way K dealt with the players, which he described as bizarre and inconsistent. My opinion is that I don't think K is a very good coach - from what I've seen. Haven't been impressed with the offense they try to run nor with their hustle/will to win. Maybe it will get better. Hope so.

You've seen 3 games. Kinda hard to make a judgement of a coach from just 3 games - all of which you said were loses. Teams don't usually look good during a loss.

Moto's upfront the source and limitations of his opinion on Coach K, that's more than most would do. The number and quality of player that followed Coach K to Toledo speaks something of his ability to relate I would think. Stacy's mobility even before he came to UT might say there were things unsettled in HIS life. Perhaps that personality "conflict" had a one-way source? Whatever and however, Dude's gone.

I'm another fan who has never thought that Coach K was the answer for us. Granted, he's brought in some good players and had some success, especially compared to the last guy. Like Moto, though, I am concerned about the fact that he doesn't seem to develop players much at all. In K's five years, only a single player, Jonathon Williams, has ever been elevated from Coach K's bench to a starting role. Every other started has started from the minute he was eligible.

Even more incredibly, so far every player who has come into K's program fits into one of two categories: 1) started from the minute he was eligible, or 2) left the program before his eligibility expired. The only exceptions would be guys who were seniors during Coach K's first year and therefore never had much of a chance to leave the program. There was one guy, Matt Smith, who stuck around after he was demoted, but that was his senior year, and he didn't have any eligibility left to transfer even before that year because he had already sat out one year after the transfer to UT. This bizarre statistic is likely to change in a couple years, assuming that either Williams, Lauf, or Garber will actually play out his years at UT. Still, it's a bit alarming and supports Moto's suggestion that Coach K has not developed players and perhaps does not treat his bench players well.

I have no inside knowledge of the goings-on of the team. I only speculate based on what I see on the court.

(08-08-2015 06:01 AM)Dwight Wrote:  I'm another fan who has never thought that Coach K was the answer for us. Granted, he's brought in some good players and had some success, especially compared to the last guy. Like Moto, though, I am concerned about the fact that he doesn't seem to develop players much at all. In K's five years, only a single player, Jonathon Williams, has ever been elevated from Coach K's bench to a starting role. Every other started has started from the minute he was eligible.

Even more incredibly, so far every player who has come into K's program fits into one of two categories: 1) started from the minute he was eligible, or 2) left the program before his eligibility expired. The only exceptions would be guys who were seniors during Coach K's first year and therefore never had much of a chance to leave the program. There was one guy, Matt Smith, who stuck around after he was demoted, but that was his senior year, and he didn't have any eligibility left to transfer even before that year because he had already sat out one year after the transfer to UT. This bizarre statistic is likely to change in a couple years, assuming that either Williams, Lauf, or Garber will actually play out his years at UT. Still, it's a bit alarming and supports Moto's suggestion that Coach K has not developed players and perhaps does not treat his bench players well.

I have no inside knowledge of the goings-on of the team. I only speculate based on what I see on the court.

Bingo.

Saw plenty of talented players part ways with Bobby Knight. I don't think that made Knight a bad Coach. All I see is the 20 win seasons and a continual upgrade of talent in the program. I like what Coach K has done especially with the mess he inherited. If you were around during Nick's days as UT's HC, then you heard the constant rumblings in the community about dumping him. Especially because of his inability to recruit local talent within the City League(with the exception of Central Catholic).

(08-07-2015 11:18 PM)Rocket4Life Wrote:  

(08-07-2015 10:54 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(08-07-2015 10:47 PM)Rocket4Life Wrote:  

(08-07-2015 10:03 PM)MotoRocket Wrote:  

(08-07-2015 09:36 AM)Rocket Pirate Wrote:  

It came from someone I've know for 30 years who also played pro ball in Europe and is close to Stacey and Joplin and others. I'm not sure what is meant by Stacey not living up to his commitment (other than in his statement below when he left). He quit because of the issues he had dealing with the coach and how he treated the players he was trying to develop. The comment he made upon his decision to leave was crafted to not reveal any issues. K said very little other than wishing him the best. There definitely was a lot of friction immediately. He did not thank K for the opportunity for a reason.

Not sure why anyone is enamored with K. The games I have seen him coach - which is limited to about 3 - were all losses and the team looked like they just wanted to get it over with and go home. They were not motivated and my other limited view is that I don't really see any players that have developed over their career - except maybe Boothe.

I don't follow MBB enough to really care one way or another, but I did find it interesting to hear what was communicated in a very matter-of-fact manner with no animosity. He just couldn't deal with the guy - so it probably worked out good for both of them in the long run.

Stacey: "At this time, I can’t fully commit myself to the program the way I need to due to personal reasons,” Stacey said in a release. “I’m going to miss the players I got to know during my time on the staff, and I wish the team nothing but the best"

Hmmm...that contradicts what I heard, which was that Stacey didn't provide TK with a reason, other than it was personal stuff going on, and TK didn't really press to know why, and doesn't really know why he left.

Also, if Stacey didn't agree with TK's coaching methods/etc., that doesn't mean that TK is a bad coach or something, it could jsut be that they have different coaching styles.

I don't think it contradicts anything you heard - Stacey just could not deal with him and did not want to be around him. Personality clash and he just did not like the way K dealt with the players, which he described as bizarre and inconsistent. My opinion is that I don't think K is a very good coach - from what I've seen. Haven't been impressed with the offense they try to run nor with their hustle/will to win. Maybe it will get better. Hope so.

You've seen 3 games. Kinda hard to make a judgement of a coach from just 3 games - all of which you said were loses. Teams don't usually look good during a loss.

I agree that 3 games is not enough to judge Coach K's coaching ability. Every team and coach has bad games. I have seen most of Coach K's games at Toledo and I think he is a very solid coach who has done an excellent job of bringing a winning culture back to the program.

In regards to player development, I have absolutely seen players develop during his time at UT. Juice Brown developed over the course of his four year career. Yes, he started right away, but that doesn't mean that he didn't get better over time. Juice was a much better player as a senior than he was as a freshman. Both Juice and Rian Pearson became much better three point shooters and better players overall. I thought Reese Holliday definitely improved during his three years at Toledo.

Coach K picks up the best talent he can find in the circumstances. Early on it was not easy. Some guys just do not work out. For example, Lemmons was an athletic guard that plays good defense. His shot release was mid-face in high school. That had to change, and at UT his release was above his head as it needed to be. So, obviously someone was working with him. Unfortunately, he never mastered it, and D1 college guards need to do more than play defense and distribute the ball. Unlike some coaches, coach K knows how to cut the umbilical when guys don't measure up. We want a coach that continually upgrades recruiting and talent. He is doing his part. I am happy from what I've seen. You can't tell me you weren't pleased when scholarships opened up, knowing UT was talent depleted.