(07-20-2015 08:01 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 10:13 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 06:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 03:07 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 08:45 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  It would be a lot simpler if Texas joined the ACC for all non-football sports and went independent in football.

ACCN would get to show a limited number of Texas away games. LHN could then show those games at a latter date and time ("tape delay").

I don't think independence will work. If we wind up with a P4 alignment rather than P5, which is where we're heading if either the ACC or Big 12 get picked apart, then the college football playoffs will be the four conference champions. ND knows that. It may only have a path to the playoffs if it joins full time.

Texas will have an even harder time going independent. ND gets a national TV deal because it has nationwide appeal to Catholic fans. Texas does not, so no big bucks for them.

Wrong. They had the chance to take only conference champions before. They skipped that option. They will continue to skip that option, not matter what the number in P_ is.

They skipped that option because they knew well they had five conferences for four slots.

With four conferences for four slots, I disagree that they would skip that option again.

But of course, ND and an independent Texas would still get consideration if they were ranked in the top four.

If we get to a P4 structure, with all of the top teams except ND and Texas in a conference, why would the rest of the teams allow two schools to have access to the championship game? Why would they support their independence by scheduling games with them?

And don't say because ND and Texas are so important that the rest of the college football world will bow down and inevitably give them what they want. In a P4 world where the conference champs go to the playoff, the conferences have no reason to give ND and Texas a free pass. The message will be join a P4 conference or get lost.

The answer to your question is simple: the teams aren't in a position to allow or disallow anything.

The post-season is owned by the bowls. Or more precisely, an organization that is formed for the purpose of owning and operating the major college football postseason structure. That organization used to be called the "BCS", but with the latest changed in structure to an actual playoff they changed their name to "CFP" (the exact technical names are something along those lines).

Bowls care only about ticket sales and TV viewers. Hence why Notre Dame was able to enjoy complete independent status in football while maintaining an equal footing with conferences in the BCS and why it enjoys a similar position today.

Texas would get the same. It's not up to the teams or the conferences.

(07-19-2015 11:33 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  I'm surprised Terry hasn't posted yet...but I'll share his view: ND doesn't want to be part of a conference.

Instead, Texas should go Independent in football. It's really the only way to differentiate themselves from TAMU going forward. TAMU got the better football conference with the best geography. But if they can get the best of both worlds (a national scheduling presence like ND and plenty of Texas state games) for football and an ACC basketball/baseball schedule, that's an appealing option.

A football schedule like this maybe?

North Texas
At UNC (ACC agreement)
UTEP
Syracuse (ACC agreement)
vs. Oklahoma (Red River...yearly)
Arizona
At Houston
Rice
At Georgia Tech (ACC agreement)
Miami
At Notre Dame (new yearly opponent)
Texas Tech

Texas has that option only if the rest of the college football world cooperates. The Texas teams will do so, but why would the rest? Any team in the P4 conferences that remain will have few OOC games to schedule. It wouldn't surprise me if the P4 only played each other, with PAC vs. B1G and SEC vs New Conf. to lead off the season. I just don't see Texas getting their pick of games.

(07-20-2015 08:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:01 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 10:13 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 06:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 03:07 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  I don't think independence will work. If we wind up with a P4 alignment rather than P5, which is where we're heading if either the ACC or Big 12 get picked apart, then the college football playoffs will be the four conference champions. ND knows that. It may only have a path to the playoffs if it joins full time.

Texas will have an even harder time going independent. ND gets a national TV deal because it has nationwide appeal to Catholic fans. Texas does not, so no big bucks for them.

Wrong. They had the chance to take only conference champions before. They skipped that option. They will continue to skip that option, not matter what the number in P_ is.

They skipped that option because they knew well they had five conferences for four slots.

With four conferences for four slots, I disagree that they would skip that option again.

But of course, ND and an independent Texas would still get consideration if they were ranked in the top four.

If we get to a P4 structure, with all of the top teams except ND and Texas in a conference, why would the rest of the teams allow two schools to have access to the championship game? Why would they support their independence by scheduling games with them?

And don't say because ND and Texas are so important that the rest of the college football world will bow down and inevitably give them what they want. In a P4 world where the conference champs go to the playoff, the conferences have no reason to give ND and Texas a free pass. The message will be join a P4 conference or get lost.

The answer to your question is simple: the teams aren't in a position to allow or disallow anything.

The post-season is owned by the bowls. Or more precisely, an organization that is formed for the purpose of owning and operating the major college football postseason structure. That organization used to be called the "BCS", but with the latest changed in structure to an actual playoff they changed their name to "CFP" (the exact technical names are something along those lines).

Bowls care only about ticket sales and TV viewers. Hence why Notre Dame was able to enjoy complete independent status in football while maintaining an equal footing with conferences in the BCS and why it enjoys a similar position today.

Texas would get the same. It's not up to the teams or the conferences.

You don't know what you're talking about. Each bowl is run by an independent organization, with the top bowls agreeing to be part of a rotating schedule for the playoffs. Most Bowls have alliances with specific conferences. If the Big 12 and ACC don't exist anymore, the Bowls that were aligned with them will look to the new conference for a bowl team.

The P5 conferences are getting the ability to make their own rules and eventually that will mean taking control of the playoffs from the NCAA. Maybe they will let ND and Texas continue to play outside their conferences but I don't know why they would.

Independent teams are an endangered species.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...onferences

(07-20-2015 08:42 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:01 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 10:13 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 06:29 PM)bullet Wrote:  Wrong. They had the chance to take only conference champions before. They skipped that option. They will continue to skip that option, not matter what the number in P_ is.

They skipped that option because they knew well they had five conferences for four slots.

With four conferences for four slots, I disagree that they would skip that option again.

But of course, ND and an independent Texas would still get consideration if they were ranked in the top four.

If we get to a P4 structure, with all of the top teams except ND and Texas in a conference, why would the rest of the teams allow two schools to have access to the championship game? Why would they support their independence by scheduling games with them?

And don't say because ND and Texas are so important that the rest of the college football world will bow down and inevitably give them what they want. In a P4 world where the conference champs go to the playoff, the conferences have no reason to give ND and Texas a free pass. The message will be join a P4 conference or get lost.

The answer to your question is simple: the teams aren't in a position to allow or disallow anything.

The post-season is owned by the bowls. Or more precisely, an organization that is formed for the purpose of owning and operating the major college football postseason structure. That organization used to be called the "BCS", but with the latest changed in structure to an actual playoff they changed their name to "CFP" (the exact technical names are something along those lines).

Bowls care only about ticket sales and TV viewers. Hence why Notre Dame was able to enjoy complete independent status in football while maintaining an equal footing with conferences in the BCS and why it enjoys a similar position today.

Texas would get the same. It's not up to the teams or the conferences.

You don't know what you're talking about. Each bowl is run by an independent organization, with the top bowls agreeing to be part of a rotating schedule for the playoffs. Most Bowls have alliances with specific conferences. If the Big 12 and ACC don't exist anymore, the Bowls that were aligned with them will look to the new conference for a bowl team.

The P5 conferences are getting the ability to make their own rules and eventually that will mean taking control of the playoffs from the NCAA. Maybe they will let ND and Texas continue to play outside their conferences but I don't know why they would.

Believe it or not, the major college football postseason has been operated by an organization.

Its president has been Bill Hancock, for some time.

http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/governance

(07-20-2015 08:47 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  Independent teams are an endangered species.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...onferences

Because the head coach at Missouri says they should be?

I think I'll take my chances.

(07-20-2015 08:51 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:47 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  Independent teams are an endangered species.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...onferences

Because the head coach at Missouri says they should be?

I think I'll take my chances.

That's just the first of many in the future.

(07-20-2015 08:56 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:51 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:47 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  Independent teams are an endangered species.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...onferences

Because the head coach at Missouri says they should be?

I think I'll take my chances.

That's just the first of many in the future.

...and just like one of many such statements by coaches in the past.

(07-21-2015 06:37 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:56 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:51 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:47 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  Independent teams are an endangered species.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...onferences

Because the head coach at Missouri says they should be?

I think I'll take my chances.

That's just the first of many in the future.

...and just like one of many such statements by coaches in the past.

Well it'd be one thing if it was Saben, Harbaugh, Meyer, etc. But the head coach of Missiouri?? I guess they'll be wanting the opinions of the head coaches at Indiana, Washington State and Colorado too!

(07-21-2015 07:51 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-21-2015 06:37 AM)TerryD Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:56 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:51 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:47 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  Independent teams are an endangered species.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...onferences

Because the head coach at Missouri says they should be?

I think I'll take my chances.

That's just the first of many in the future.

...and just like one of many such statements by coaches in the past.

Well it'd be one thing if it was Saben, Harbaugh, Meyer, etc. But the head coach of Missiouri?? I guess they'll be wanting the opinions of the head coaches at Indiana, Washington State and Colorado too!

It was Steve Spurrier a few years ago, I think.

Back in 2003-2010, it usually was a Big East coach.

Of course, all of them are now coaching for another school in another conference.....


"That struts and frets his hour upon the stage
And then is heard no more: it is a tale
Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
Signifying nothing."

McBeth, Act 5, Scene 5

(07-19-2015 03:32 PM)ClemVegas Wrote:  How is FSU really a football power? They've had 3 good seasons after several bad to mediocre seasons. You keep talking about Texas and Okla as football powers and they aren't that good right now, Clemson clocked Okla in the bowl game last year.

I don't agree that the other teams in ACC all suck. I think they can all play with most of the SEC, PAC 10, Big 12 and Big 10 teams.

big 12 is the one that seems on verge of splitting up, not the ACC. the ACC just took on 3 more teams.

this idea that colleges bow down to Texas and Oklahoma and FSU, simply b/c they've had some good football seasons, etc, is stupid.

I would think anyone who won a championship two years ago and qualified for the playoff last year would be considered a power. That ignores what they did in the 90s.

If you want to look at institutional definitions, FSU has that as well: attendance, fan support, and brand recognition. FSU is a football power right now pretty much any way you slice it.

Tx, Ok, and FSU all bring money, exposure, bowl berths, and legitimacy to the conferences they are in. Few other schools bring the same amount that they do, including Clemson.

(07-20-2015 08:11 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 07:05 PM)goodknightfl Wrote:  Great idea, start a new conf with no access bid, no bowls for a few years, No auto NCAA bid, and no P5 ranking... yeah, that sounds like a great idea for 3 upper level P5 programs.

The act of forming the new conference will result in the Big 12 and ACC ceasing to exist. The bowl games they had will go to the new conference. With ND, Texas, FSU and OKlahoma, along with the others, the new conference will easily get a lucrative media deal. The new conference will be a one of the P4 and get one of the 4 slots in the playoffs.

Even if there are conferences that survive under the "Big 12" and "ACC" moniker they would not retain the bowl games and their TV deals would collapse. Saw the same thing happen with the Big East. It's either eat or be eaten.

So will the Fighting Irish add more ACC games to their schedule or fully join the conference?

Not according to ACC commissioner John Swofford.

“The five is where we settled in a very long and extended negotiation,” he said. “I think it gives us what we felt like we needed bringing them in without football and it gave them the opportunity to schedule the way they want to schedule.

“They cherish their football independence and I understand and respect that. It gives them an opportunity to play coast to coast and that’s important to Notre Dame.”


http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-footbal...louisville

(07-21-2015 04:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  So will the Fighting Irish add more ACC games to their schedule or fully join the conference?

Not according to ACC commissioner John Swofford.

“The five is where we settled in a very long and extended negotiation,” he said. “I think it gives us what we felt like we needed bringing them in without football and it gave them the opportunity to schedule the way they want to schedule.

“They cherish their football independence and I understand and respect that. It gives them an opportunity to play coast to coast and that’s important to Notre Dame.”


http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-footbal...louisville

That's reasonable to me. And it would be reasonable for Texas too.

CFP can give them special consideration for the four-team playoff if they're ranked high enough (whatever that number is negotiated to be).

(07-20-2015 08:51 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:42 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:01 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 10:13 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  They skipped that option because they knew well they had five conferences for four slots.

With four conferences for four slots, I disagree that they would skip that option again.

But of course, ND and an independent Texas would still get consideration if they were ranked in the top four.

If we get to a P4 structure, with all of the top teams except ND and Texas in a conference, why would the rest of the teams allow two schools to have access to the championship game? Why would they support their independence by scheduling games with them?

And don't say because ND and Texas are so important that the rest of the college football world will bow down and inevitably give them what they want. In a P4 world where the conference champs go to the playoff, the conferences have no reason to give ND and Texas a free pass. The message will be join a P4 conference or get lost.

The answer to your question is simple: the teams aren't in a position to allow or disallow anything.

The post-season is owned by the bowls. Or more precisely, an organization that is formed for the purpose of owning and operating the major college football postseason structure. That organization used to be called the "BCS", but with the latest changed in structure to an actual playoff they changed their name to "CFP" (the exact technical names are something along those lines).

Bowls care only about ticket sales and TV viewers. Hence why Notre Dame was able to enjoy complete independent status in football while maintaining an equal footing with conferences in the BCS and why it enjoys a similar position today.

Texas would get the same. It's not up to the teams or the conferences.

You don't know what you're talking about. Each bowl is run by an independent organization, with the top bowls agreeing to be part of a rotating schedule for the playoffs. Most Bowls have alliances with specific conferences. If the Big 12 and ACC don't exist anymore, the Bowls that were aligned with them will look to the new conference for a bowl team.

The P5 conferences are getting the ability to make their own rules and eventually that will mean taking control of the playoffs from the NCAA. Maybe they will let ND and Texas continue to play outside their conferences but I don't know why they would.

Believe it or not, the major college football postseason has been operated by an organization.

Its president has been Bill Hancock, for some time.

http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/governance

You still don't know what you're talking about. The website if for the alliance formed by top New Years Day bowls and now rotate the semifinal games and stage the national championship game. All of the other 35 or bowl games are not run by that organization. Most of them are aligned with specific conferences.

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/college-...hedule.php

(07-21-2015 05:09 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-21-2015 04:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  So will the Fighting Irish add more ACC games to their schedule or fully join the conference?

Not according to ACC commissioner John Swofford.

“The five is where we settled in a very long and extended negotiation,” he said. “I think it gives us what we felt like we needed bringing them in without football and it gave them the opportunity to schedule the way they want to schedule.

“They cherish their football independence and I understand and respect that. It gives them an opportunity to play coast to coast and that’s important to Notre Dame.”


http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-footbal...louisville

That's reasonable to me. And it would be reasonable for Texas too.

CFP can give them special consideration for the four-team playoff if they're ranked high enough (whatever that number is negotiated to be).

Why would the rest of the major college football world, if aligned in 4 power conferences, give special consideration to two schools that refuse to join a conference and give them a path to the financial reward and prestige of a national championship playoff when the P4 can instead keep it all to themselves?

ND and Texas are not so special that they can have their independence and have the rest of the college football world bow down to them. That's BS.

(07-21-2015 09:30 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:51 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:42 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:18 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-20-2015 08:01 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  If we get to a P4 structure, with all of the top teams except ND and Texas in a conference, why would the rest of the teams allow two schools to have access to the championship game? Why would they support their independence by scheduling games with them?

And don't say because ND and Texas are so important that the rest of the college football world will bow down and inevitably give them what they want. In a P4 world where the conference champs go to the playoff, the conferences have no reason to give ND and Texas a free pass. The message will be join a P4 conference or get lost.

The answer to your question is simple: the teams aren't in a position to allow or disallow anything.

The post-season is owned by the bowls. Or more precisely, an organization that is formed for the purpose of owning and operating the major college football postseason structure. That organization used to be called the "BCS", but with the latest changed in structure to an actual playoff they changed their name to "CFP" (the exact technical names are something along those lines).

Bowls care only about ticket sales and TV viewers. Hence why Notre Dame was able to enjoy complete independent status in football while maintaining an equal footing with conferences in the BCS and why it enjoys a similar position today.

Texas would get the same. It's not up to the teams or the conferences.

You don't know what you're talking about. Each bowl is run by an independent organization, with the top bowls agreeing to be part of a rotating schedule for the playoffs. Most Bowls have alliances with specific conferences. If the Big 12 and ACC don't exist anymore, the Bowls that were aligned with them will look to the new conference for a bowl team.

The P5 conferences are getting the ability to make their own rules and eventually that will mean taking control of the playoffs from the NCAA. Maybe they will let ND and Texas continue to play outside their conferences but I don't know why they would.

Believe it or not, the major college football postseason has been operated by an organization.

Its president has been Bill Hancock, for some time.

http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/governance

You still don't know what you're talking about. The website if for the alliance formed by top New Years Day bowls and now rotate the semifinal games and stage the national championship game. All of the other 35 or bowl games are not run by that organization. Most of them are aligned with specific conferences.

http://www.fbschedules.com/ncaa/college-...hedule.php

I never said anything to the contrary.

I guess you mistakenly took the phrase "major college football postseason" to mean all of the bowls. It hasn't and doesn't.

It mean the BCS bowls back then and it means the CFP bowls now.


And thus ... Notre Dame gets to negotiate straight up with the CFP organization, because the CFP would love to have Notre Dame in the playoff (if they earn it). Same would be true with Texas.

(07-21-2015 09:37 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-21-2015 05:09 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-21-2015 04:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  So will the Fighting Irish add more ACC games to their schedule or fully join the conference?

Not according to ACC commissioner John Swofford.

“The five is where we settled in a very long and extended negotiation,” he said. “I think it gives us what we felt like we needed bringing them in without football and it gave them the opportunity to schedule the way they want to schedule.

“They cherish their football independence and I understand and respect that. It gives them an opportunity to play coast to coast and that’s important to Notre Dame.”


http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-footbal...louisville

That's reasonable to me. And it would be reasonable for Texas too.

CFP can give them special consideration for the four-team playoff if they're ranked high enough (whatever that number is negotiated to be).

Why would the rest of the major college football world, if aligned in 4 power conferences, give special consideration to two schools that refuse to join a conference and give them a path to the financial reward and prestige of a national championship playoff when the P4 can instead keep it all to themselves?

ND and Texas are not so special that they can have their independence and have the rest of the college football world bow down to them. That's BS.

Because, as I've already explained, the P4 conferences do not own the CFP.

The CFP organization owns the CFP, and they most certainly have the right to negotiate directly with Notre Dame (and Texas, if that were the case).

(07-21-2015 10:05 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-21-2015 09:37 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-21-2015 05:09 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(07-21-2015 04:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  So will the Fighting Irish add more ACC games to their schedule or fully join the conference?

Not according to ACC commissioner John Swofford.

“The five is where we settled in a very long and extended negotiation,” he said. “I think it gives us what we felt like we needed bringing them in without football and it gave them the opportunity to schedule the way they want to schedule.

“They cherish their football independence and I understand and respect that. It gives them an opportunity to play coast to coast and that’s important to Notre Dame.”


http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-footbal...louisville

That's reasonable to me. And it would be reasonable for Texas too.

CFP can give them special consideration for the four-team playoff if they're ranked high enough (whatever that number is negotiated to be).

Why would the rest of the major college football world, if aligned in 4 power conferences, give special consideration to two schools that refuse to join a conference and give them a path to the financial reward and prestige of a national championship playoff when the P4 can instead keep it all to themselves?

ND and Texas are not so special that they can have their independence and have the rest of the college football world bow down to them. That's BS.

Because, as I've already explained, the P4 conferences do not own the CFP.

The CFP organization owns the CFP, and they most certainly have the right to negotiate directly with Notre Dame (and Texas, if that were the case).

The CFP organization was formed with the cooperation of the P5 conferences. If the remaining P4 decide the playoffs should be held between only P4 conference teams, there's nothing the CFP could do about it.

(07-20-2015 08:21 PM)CintiFan Wrote:  

(07-19-2015 11:33 PM)allthatyoucantleavebehind Wrote:  I'm surprised Terry hasn't posted yet...but I'll share his view: ND doesn't want to be part of a conference.

Instead, Texas should go Independent in football. It's really the only way to differentiate themselves from TAMU going forward. TAMU got the better football conference with the best geography. But if they can get the best of both worlds (a national scheduling presence like ND and plenty of Texas state games) for football and an ACC basketball/baseball schedule, that's an appealing option.

A football schedule like this maybe?

North Texas
At UNC (ACC agreement)
UTEP
Syracuse (ACC agreement)
vs. Oklahoma (Red River...yearly)
Arizona
At Houston
Rice
At Georgia Tech (ACC agreement)
Miami (ACC agreement)
At Notre Dame (new yearly opponent)
Texas Tech

Texas has that option only if the rest of the college football world cooperates. The Texas teams will do so, but why would the rest? Any team in the P4 conferences that remain will have few OOC games to schedule. It wouldn't surprise me if the P4 only played each other, with PAC vs. B1G and SEC vs New Conf. to lead off the season. I just don't see Texas getting their pick of games.

The ACC (as the fourth or fifth best P5 conference) is happy to oblige. If they can give them 4 p5 games...and ND and OU promise them yearly matchups....well, there is 6. Finding 2 or 3 more (especially among TCU, TAMU, Texas Tech, Baylor) wouldn't be tough.

I think a stronger argument against "Texas's independence" scenarios is how to allow them in the playoff fairly. But I guess they are already crossing that bridge with ND as it is...