Im more concerned with whether or not someo e is a good person than their label as good orbad, real or fake Christian.

I think a lot of self proclaimed real Christians need a good long look in the mirror for how they treat and judge people.

(07-14-2015 01:32 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Im more concerned with whether or not someo e is a good person than their label as good orbad, real or fake Christian.

I think a lot of self proclaimed real Christians need a good long look in the mirror for how they treat and judge people.

I think a lot of non-Christians who hold Christians to values by which they themselves don't abide, who constantly cherry-pick out of context Bible verses to justify their worldviews (Matthew 7:1), should take a good long look in that same mirror.

(07-14-2015 01:38 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:32 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Im more concerned with whether or not someo e is a good person than their label as good orbad, real or fake Christian.

I think a lot of self proclaimed real Christians need a good long look in the mirror for how they treat and judge people.

I think a lot of non-Christians who hold Christians to values by which they themselves don't abide, who constantly cherry-pick out of context Bible verses to justify their worldviews (Matthew 7:1), should take a good long look in that same mirror.

I don't ever see jesus passing the buck like this. I think he'd be the first person to admit the faults of christians and that they should do better in their treatment of all people.

Of course all people can be sh*tty, but this isn't a thread about that.

(07-14-2015 01:43 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:38 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:32 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Im more concerned with whether or not someo e is a good person than their label as good orbad, real or fake Christian.

I think a lot of self proclaimed real Christians need a good long look in the mirror for how they treat and judge people.

I think a lot of non-Christians who hold Christians to values by which they themselves don't abide, who constantly cherry-pick out of context Bible verses to justify their worldviews (Matthew 7:1), should take a good long look in that same mirror.

I think he'd be the first person to admit the faults of christians and that they should do better in their treatment of all people.

Absolutely.

(07-14-2015 01:43 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:38 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:32 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Im more concerned with whether or not someo e is a good person than their label as good orbad, real or fake Christian.

I think a lot of self proclaimed real Christians need a good long look in the mirror for how they treat and judge people.

I think a lot of non-Christians who hold Christians to values by which they themselves don't abide, who constantly cherry-pick out of context Bible verses to justify their worldviews (Matthew 7:1), should take a good long look in that same mirror.

I don't ever see jesus passing the buck like this. I think he'd be the first person to admit the faults of christians and that they should do better in their treatment of all people.

Of course all people can be sh*tty, but this isn't a thread about that.

Im with you 100% on this.

(07-14-2015 01:57 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:43 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:38 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:32 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Im more concerned with whether or not someo e is a good person than their label as good orbad, real or fake Christian.

I think a lot of self proclaimed real Christians need a good long look in the mirror for how they treat and judge people.

I think a lot of non-Christians who hold Christians to values by which they themselves don't abide, who constantly cherry-pick out of context Bible verses to justify their worldviews (Matthew 7:1), should take a good long look in that same mirror.

I think he'd be the first person to admit the faults of christians and that they should do better in their treatment of all people.

Absolutely.

For whatever it's worth, I respect the hell out of anyone who actually strives to live their lives like Christ. Whether or not I think he was born of a virgin, the literal son of god, etc, he led a great life that provides a valuable example for any person wanting to better themselves.

(07-14-2015 02:47 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:57 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:43 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:38 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:32 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Im more concerned with whether or not someo e is a good person than their label as good orbad, real or fake Christian.

I think a lot of self proclaimed real Christians need a good long look in the mirror for how they treat and judge people.

I think a lot of non-Christians who hold Christians to values by which they themselves don't abide, who constantly cherry-pick out of context Bible verses to justify their worldviews (Matthew 7:1), should take a good long look in that same mirror.

I think he'd be the first person to admit the faults of christians and that they should do better in their treatment of all people.

Absolutely.

For whatever it's worth, I respect the hell out of anyone who actually strives to live their lives like Christ. Whether or not I think he was born of a virgin, the literal son of god, etc, he led a great life that provides a valuable example for any person wanting to better themselves.

I'll be the first to tell you that I fall short of it every day. We all do. Regardless of belief, but you're right. His teachings can be applied universally for the betterment of humanity.

Yet follow the teachings but not the person and youre still destined for Hell apparently.

(07-14-2015 11:35 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Yet follow the teachings but not the person and youre still destined for Hell apparently.

You are destined for hell if you don't acknowledge Him as the Son of the Living
God and ask forgiveness for your sins.

That is pretty strait forward stuff.

(07-15-2015 01:58 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 11:35 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Yet follow the teachings but not the person and youre still destined for Hell apparently.

You are destined for hell if you don't acknowledge Him as the Son of the Living
God and ask forgiveness for your sins.

That is pretty strait forward stuff.

It is precisely that sort of of negative quality that you attribute to your god that leads many to believe he isn't real. That same quality - the willingness to coerce obedience through fear - that people universally reject in other humans many Christians willingly accept in a supposedly loving deity. One of his many unappealing qualities.

(07-15-2015 08:35 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 01:58 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 11:35 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Yet follow the teachings but not the person and youre still destined for Hell apparently.

You are destined for hell if you don't acknowledge Him as the Son of the Living
God and ask forgiveness for your sins.

That is pretty strait forward stuff.

It is precisely that sort of of negative quality that you attribute to your god that leads many to believe he isn't real. That same quality - the willingness to coerce obedience through fear - that people universally reject in other humans many Christians willingly accept in a supposedly loving deity. One of his many unappealing qualities.

Its only a negative quality to those who reject the fact that there is a creator of the entire universe.

The fact is my God loved mankind so much that He, the ALL MIGHTY Creator of all things, humbled himself to the point of being born in the flesh as a poor man, experience all the pain, struggles, confusions and temptation that we all have to face in life.

Humbling himself even to the point of tasting his own mortal death. Imagine that fact, the God of ALL CREATION humbling himself to the point of tasting brutal torture and death as a man in the flesh...... just to fulfill all righteousness and make himself that much more worthy of our love and worship. He lets us know that even HE, the creator of all, faced the same choices and death He makes us ALL face as a result of our own fall from His grace. Giving himself as a blood sacrifice to redeem all of mankind for our sins against Him.

THAT is what separates the ONE TRUE LIVING GOD from all other man made gods that mankind has ever made up. THAT is a God WORTHY of our love and worship.

OF course, He granted us with the power to chose to accept Him or reject Him. And some people are too narcissistic and selfish for their own mortal lives to accept Him and His gift of eternal life, so they convince themselves He doesn't exist and isn't worth their love.

Its your choice though, and He granted you that choice.

Choose wisely.

All you have to do is love Him and He will love you back for all eternity.

(07-15-2015 09:00 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 08:35 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 01:58 AM)ericsrevenge76 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 11:35 PM)JDTulane Wrote:  Yet follow the teachings but not the person and youre still destined for Hell apparently.

You are destined for hell if you don't acknowledge Him as the Son of the Living
God and ask forgiveness for your sins.

That is pretty strait forward stuff.

It is precisely that sort of of negative quality that you attribute to your god that leads many to believe he isn't real. That same quality - the willingness to coerce obedience through fear - that people universally reject in other humans many Christians willingly accept in a supposedly loving deity. One of his many unappealing qualities.

Its only a negative quality to those who reject the fact that there is a creator of the entire universe.

The fact is my God loved mankind so much that He, the ALL MIGHTY Creator of all things, humbled himself to the point of being born in the flesh as a poor man, experience all the pain, struggles, confusions and temptation that we all have to face in life.

Humbling himself even to the point of tasting his own mortal death. Imagine that fact, the God of ALL CREATION humbling himself to the point of tasting brutal torture and death as a man in the flesh...... just to fulfill all righteousness and make himself that much more worthy of our love and worship. He lets us know that even HE, the creator of all, faced the same choices and death He makes us ALL face as a result of our own fall from His grace. Giving himself as a blood sacrifice to redeem all of mankind for our sins against Him.

THAT is what separates the ONE TRUE LIVING GOD from all other man made gods that mankind has ever made up. THAT is a God WORTHY of our love and worship.

OF course, He granted us with the power to chose to accept Him or reject Him. And some people are too narcissistic and selfish for their own mortal lives to accept Him and His gift of eternal life, so they convince themselves He doesn't exist and isn't worth their love.

Its your choice though, and He granted you that choice.

Choose wisely.

All you have to do is love Him and He will love you back for all eternity.

If I believed even a single word of what you said to be true, none of it would make me want to love your god. It wouldn't even make me want to like him, or respect him. The malevolent qualities ascribed to him in the Bible to me far outweigh any benevolent qualities you think he possesses. Whether or not there is a sentient creator of our universe has no bearing on what constitutes a negative quality. And that isn't to say that there might not actually be a loving god in the universe. Just that the god of Abraham isn't it.

(07-15-2015 09:33 AM)ken d Wrote:  If I believed even a single word of what you said to be true, none of it would make me want to love your god. It wouldn't even make me want to like him, or respect him. The malevolent qualities ascribed to him in the Bible to me far outweigh any benevolent qualities you think he possesses. Whether or not there is a sentient creator of our universe has no bearing on what constitutes a negative quality. And that isn't to say that there might not actually be a loving god in the universe. Just that the god of Abraham isn't it.

I always find it funny when christians warn that by not believing, I will go to hell. Because, you know, if I don't have any reason to believe hell exists, the threat of going there carries no weight. I think some just have a hard time understanding that not everyone believes in cosmic time out.

(07-15-2015 03:12 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I always find it funny when christians warn that by not believing, I will go to hell. Because, you know, if I don't have any reason to believe hell exists, the threat of going there carries no weight. I think some just have a hard time understanding that not everyone believes in cosmic time out.

I look at it a little differently.

I know not who is going where after death. The only thing I do know is that God has the power to save anyone. God's grace is sufficient for anyone. His plan, His judgements, and His workings are beyond my (and anyone else's) grasp.

(07-15-2015 03:17 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 03:12 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I always find it funny when christians warn that by not believing, I will go to hell. Because, you know, if I don't have any reason to believe hell exists, the threat of going there carries no weight. I think some just have a hard time understanding that not everyone believes in cosmic time out.

I look at it a little differently.

I know not who is going where after death. The only thing I do know is that God has the power to save anyone. God's grace is sufficient for anyone. His plan, His judgements, and His workings are beyond my (and anyone else's) grasp.

Well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

(07-15-2015 03:21 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 03:17 PM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  

(07-15-2015 03:12 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I always find it funny when christians warn that by not believing, I will go to hell. Because, you know, if I don't have any reason to believe hell exists, the threat of going there carries no weight. I think some just have a hard time understanding that not everyone believes in cosmic time out.

I look at it a little differently.

I know not who is going where after death. The only thing I do know is that God has the power to save anyone. God's grace is sufficient for anyone. His plan, His judgements, and His workings are beyond my (and anyone else's) grasp.

Well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

While I appreciate the tip to Jeff Lebowski, such statements are superfluous considering we are on an internet messageboard.

It's the dude.

So, by saying that you want a benevolent God you're actually saying that you want one who will endorse every sin that we might have/do. He is a judgmental God, true, but even here on earth we have courts and judges that mete out punishment but in your eyes you want a God that let's you skate in whatever you do. Hmm, interesting. A non-judgmental God...

(07-15-2015 04:04 PM)olliebaba Wrote:  So, by saying that you want a benevolent God you're actually saying that you want one who will endorse every sin that we might have/do. He is a judgmental God, true, but even here on earth we have courts and judges that mete out punishment but in your eyes you want a God that let's you skate in whatever you do. Hmm, interesting. A non-judgmental God...

What a complete load of hogwash. Do you always make up stuff you claim others believe so you can belittle them? Nobody said, or implied, any such thing, and you know it. You pulled that out of thin air.

Fact is, I don't want any kind of god, judgmental or otherwise. Nor do I need one. Belief in a personal deity has nothing to do moral behavior. It neither promotes it nor proscribes it. Moral behavior is a purely human construct.