(07-14-2015 12:24 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:51 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:25 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:02 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 08:11 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  You sound like the morons that said Conley was overpaid.

For real?

Oddly enough, I said Conley deal was a good value because he got half of a max deal.

Why don't I sound like the morons who said Gay was overpaid?

I think the only difference is you can go about 20 deep in the SF category, so the need to pay high dollar isn't as important as paying top dollar for a center, which only goes about 7-10 deep.

Agreed.

The problem isn't next year... It's when Marc is 34 and Zbo is 38 and Marc earning almost $30 million and it's almost a third of the team's salary cap but he is a piece as opposed to the force a maximum salary guy should be.

Conley is probably going to be in line for a 5 year $80 million deal. Marc and Mike will probably eat so much of the cap space that free agents that are difference makers will be out of the question when we need to fill holes at the 2, 3, and 4.

Someone took the Gay contract off of our hands , so even that was not too bad of a deal.

The fact is that over half of the teams in the NBA would have given Marc the same contract if he had been willing to listen. So either Latty is right or every GM in the NBA is right.....


I think many people are envious of the $$$ NBA players make so their judgement is clouded and they cant see that it is a market and players are paid based on supply and demand, not what teachers make or plumbers or even pro baseball players.

So Latty was right about someone would have given Marc a max contract?

I'm not envious of NBA salaries. I'm looking at long-term cap flexibility.

After all, I started my original post saying I'd have paid Marc because that's what it would take to get him back. But still think he isn't a max player.

(07-14-2015 01:18 PM)tiger1016 Wrote:  The original point of the thread is dumb. That poster is ok with Deandre being paid Marc's level of salary cuz of the market but can't understand how the best center in the game can make so much. Also some posters don't seem to realize the cap is going up next year. We won't have a problem paying Conley either. Marc is being paid fair market value and anyone who thinks otherwise either doesn't understand the economics of the NBA or is purposefully being disrespectful of Marc. SMDH

I didn't say I'd pay DJ a max salary.

I just said it's market forces... Same as Marc.

And with the level of center in the game right now, saying you are best center is like saying Blanche was the hottest Golden Girl.

(07-14-2015 02:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:16 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:03 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

I don't see how the OP is showing "disrespect" to Gasol. He's just stating an opinion, grounded in a sobering reality. Gasol has shown in his time here to be a good to great center, but he is by no means dominant. Typically, the max contracts were reserved for those truly dominant players that teams could build around and contend for a title. Gasol has shown that he's not such a player, in spite of his individual accolades. Again, I'm puzzled as to why so many here think that Gasol is the answer, when he has proven time and time again that he, by himself, is not.

If the Grizz had a legit 22-25 pts/gm scorer on the wing , then Gasol is a great center to have, and the Grizz would have as good a shot as anyone else to win a ring. As the Grizz are currently built, they need more wing scoring and bench depth. With those glaring holes, the fact that they had to max Gasol is telling.

What is telling is that you don't know what is going on with the tv contract and the salary cap. The salary cap is at $63 million and will probably go up $25 million after this year. Gasol left a lot of money on the table by not signing a 1 year deal. The contract will look like a bargain when the salary cap hits $100 million in 2018.

You realize that Gasol is getting a percentage of the cap so it doesn't matter how high the cap goes, he still will be that same chunk of the cap.

Him making $30 million of a $100 million cap is 30% of the cap.

(07-14-2015 02:50 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:16 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:03 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

I don't see how the OP is showing "disrespect" to Gasol. He's just stating an opinion, grounded in a sobering reality. Gasol has shown in his time here to be a good to great center, but he is by no means dominant. Typically, the max contracts were reserved for those truly dominant players that teams could build around and contend for a title. Gasol has shown that he's not such a player, in spite of his individual accolades. Again, I'm puzzled as to why so many here think that Gasol is the answer, when he has proven time and time again that he, by himself, is not.

If the Grizz had a legit 22-25 pts/gm scorer on the wing , then Gasol is a great center to have, and the Grizz would have as good a shot as anyone else to win a ring. As the Grizz are currently built, they need more wing scoring and bench depth. With those glaring holes, the fact that they had to max Gasol is telling.

Gasol was highly coveted by other NBA teams that would have been quite happy to pay him the max. Griz management agreed to the deal. The experts fully respect his ability. Either they are wrong or his detractors are wrong. Let the reader decide. I know which side is more fully informed.

Teams desperate for talent and flush with cash coveted Marc.

Marc is not a game changer. I think you guys think he is. I'm a fan, but stop acting like Marc will be in the Hall of Fame one day.

Marc is Vlade Divac when you guys act like he's Kareem.

(07-14-2015 03:02 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:50 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:16 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:03 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

I don't see how the OP is showing "disrespect" to Gasol. He's just stating an opinion, grounded in a sobering reality. Gasol has shown in his time here to be a good to great center, but he is by no means dominant. Typically, the max contracts were reserved for those truly dominant players that teams could build around and contend for a title. Gasol has shown that he's not such a player, in spite of his individual accolades. Again, I'm puzzled as to why so many here think that Gasol is the answer, when he has proven time and time again that he, by himself, is not.

If the Grizz had a legit 22-25 pts/gm scorer on the wing , then Gasol is a great center to have, and the Grizz would have as good a shot as anyone else to win a ring. As the Grizz are currently built, they need more wing scoring and bench depth. With those glaring holes, the fact that they had to max Gasol is telling.

Gasol was highly coveted by other NBA teams that would have been quite happy to pay him the max. Griz management agreed to the deal. The experts fully respect his ability. Either they are wrong or his detractors are wrong. Let the reader decide. I know which side is more fully informed.

Teams desperate for talent and flush with cash coveted Marc.

Marc is not a game changer. I think you guys think he is. I'm a fan, but stop acting like Marc will be in the Hall of Fame one day.

Marc is Vlade Divac when you guys act like he's Kareem.

Uhhhh, the Spurs????

(07-14-2015 03:02 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:50 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:16 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:03 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

I don't see how the OP is showing "disrespect" to Gasol. He's just stating an opinion, grounded in a sobering reality. Gasol has shown in his time here to be a good to great center, but he is by no means dominant. Typically, the max contracts were reserved for those truly dominant players that teams could build around and contend for a title. Gasol has shown that he's not such a player, in spite of his individual accolades. Again, I'm puzzled as to why so many here think that Gasol is the answer, when he has proven time and time again that he, by himself, is not.

If the Grizz had a legit 22-25 pts/gm scorer on the wing , then Gasol is a great center to have, and the Grizz would have as good a shot as anyone else to win a ring. As the Grizz are currently built, they need more wing scoring and bench depth. With those glaring holes, the fact that they had to max Gasol is telling.

Gasol was highly coveted by other NBA teams that would have been quite happy to pay him the max. Griz management agreed to the deal. The experts fully respect his ability. Either they are wrong or his detractors are wrong. Let the reader decide. I know which side is more fully informed.

Teams desperate for talent and flush with cash coveted Marc.

Marc is not a game changer. I think you guys think he is. I'm a fan, but stop acting like Marc will be in the Hall of Fame one day.

Marc is Vlade Divac when you guys act like he's Kareem.

Again, the disrespect by messageboard GM's toward a gifted player and positive contributor to the City of Memphis is not shared by Gasol's peers and professionals. Face it, he is a great player and has very much helped make Memphis into an enduring playoff team that made the second round this past season.

(07-14-2015 03:11 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Again, the disrespect by messageboard GM's toward a gifted player and positive contributor to the City of Memphis is not shared by Gasol's peers and professionals. Face it, he is a great player and has very much helped make Memphis into an enduring playoff team that made the second round this past season.

One thing was pointed out at the press conference today that got my attention. The grizzlies in their entire history had zero playoff wins before Marc showed up. They now have 27.

Marc is the 12th highest paid player in the league. That is about where he should be.

(07-14-2015 01:01 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:24 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:15 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  I know, I know...

Marc earned that contract because someone would have given it to him, he is beloved, key to the Grizzlies' success on offense and defense, and arguably the most important player on the team.

But a max contract for a guy who averaged 18 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists.

I think that around year four of the contract, and Z-Bo is either gone or washed up, we are gonna look at Marc Gasol being the highest paid player on the team and think WTF. Much like when Rudy Gay was. Economic realities of the NBA.

I love Marc. But he isn't great. He is a very good starting center that cannot carry the team on his back. I agree it had to be done, but I said the same thing about Rudy's deal. We better hope Jarnell Stokes or Jarell Martin becomes a Draymond Green level surprise. Otherwise, when we hope Gasol can carry the frontcourt on his own, we are going to be very disappointed.

You know what makes me feel icky? Vernon said the Grizz had to draft Green in 2012. It's never good to have Verno right.

We aren't adding young talent because we don't get high draft picks. If we don't make great late 1st round and 2nd round picks and sign diamonds in the rough like TA in free agency, we will be playoff bridemaids for the rest of the decade.

He couldn't dominate Draymond Green in the playoffs. Instead of crushing him down low, he had to rely on turnarounds and fades--on a guy he had by 30 pounds and about 5+ inches.

That is where I will always question Marc--his ability to crush a guy he has a mismatch against.

Marc Gasol is an all-star starting center. It makes him among the NBA elite and thus great.

And my only qualm was that, as an All Star center and an "elite", he should not have been handcuffed by the likes of Draymond Green.

Games 3 through 6, Marc shot 28-81 or 34.6% from the field.

Unacceptable.

(07-14-2015 03:14 PM)JerryJeff Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 03:11 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  Again, the disrespect by messageboard GM's toward a gifted player and positive contributor to the City of Memphis is not shared by Gasol's peers and professionals. Face it, he is a great player and has very much helped make Memphis into an enduring playoff team that made the second round this past season.

One thing was pointed out at the press conference today that got my attention. The grizzlies in their entire history had zero playoff wins before Marc showed up. They now have 27.

Wow.

Draymond Green was 1st team all Defense and guarded everyone well in the playoffs

(07-14-2015 03:32 PM)k2tigers Wrote:  Draymond Green was 1st team all Defense and guarded everyone well in the playoffs

and Marc still averaged 19 pts per game.

(07-14-2015 03:32 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 03:32 PM)k2tigers Wrote:  Draymond Green was 1st team all Defense and guarded everyone well in the playoffs

and Marc still averaged 19 pts per game.

and GSW basically packed the paint and ignored our "shooters"

(07-14-2015 03:32 PM)k2tigers Wrote:  Draymond Green was 1st team all Defense and guarded everyone well in the playoffs

Yeah, at power forward.

Green is 6'7 229, Marc is 7'1, 265.

That is 6 inches in height and 36 pounds more.

We'd tank without Gasol - what's the point in tanking if ya don't have picks??

(07-14-2015 03:32 PM)aTxTIGER Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 03:32 PM)k2tigers Wrote:  Draymond Green was 1st team all Defense and guarded everyone well in the playoffs

and Marc still averaged 19 pts per game.

He shot 36% from the field.

Horrible.

(07-14-2015 03:19 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:01 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:24 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:15 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  I know, I know...

Marc earned that contract because someone would have given it to him, he is beloved, key to the Grizzlies' success on offense and defense, and arguably the most important player on the team.

But a max contract for a guy who averaged 18 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists.

I think that around year four of the contract, and Z-Bo is either gone or washed up, we are gonna look at Marc Gasol being the highest paid player on the team and think WTF. Much like when Rudy Gay was. Economic realities of the NBA.

I love Marc. But he isn't great. He is a very good starting center that cannot carry the team on his back. I agree it had to be done, but I said the same thing about Rudy's deal. We better hope Jarnell Stokes or Jarell Martin becomes a Draymond Green level surprise. Otherwise, when we hope Gasol can carry the frontcourt on his own, we are going to be very disappointed.

You know what makes me feel icky? Vernon said the Grizz had to draft Green in 2012. It's never good to have Verno right.

We aren't adding young talent because we don't get high draft picks. If we don't make great late 1st round and 2nd round picks and sign diamonds in the rough like TA in free agency, we will be playoff bridemaids for the rest of the decade.

He couldn't dominate Draymond Green in the playoffs. Instead of crushing him down low, he had to rely on turnarounds and fades--on a guy he had by 30 pounds and about 5+ inches.

That is where I will always question Marc--his ability to crush a guy he has a mismatch against.

Marc Gasol is an all-star starting center. It makes him among the NBA elite and thus great.

And my only qualm was that, as an All Star center and an "elite", he should not have been handcuffed by the likes of Draymond Green.

Games 3 through 6, Marc shot 28-81 or 34.6% from the field.

Unacceptable.

The professionals willing to risk the ire of their billionaire owners to pay Gasol somehow missed the stat. Look, even the greatest of great players have stretches of one bad stat. Guess the name of this player:, "His shooting nights, with Iguodala draped all over him: 18-38, 11-35, 14-34, 7-22, 15-34 and 13-33. That’s a .398 shooting percentage from the floor." http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/lebron-j...ls-history

(07-14-2015 03:44 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 03:19 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:01 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:24 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:15 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  I know, I know...

Marc earned that contract because someone would have given it to him, he is beloved, key to the Grizzlies' success on offense and defense, and arguably the most important player on the team.

But a max contract for a guy who averaged 18 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists.

I think that around year four of the contract, and Z-Bo is either gone or washed up, we are gonna look at Marc Gasol being the highest paid player on the team and think WTF. Much like when Rudy Gay was. Economic realities of the NBA.

I love Marc. But he isn't great. He is a very good starting center that cannot carry the team on his back. I agree it had to be done, but I said the same thing about Rudy's deal. We better hope Jarnell Stokes or Jarell Martin becomes a Draymond Green level surprise. Otherwise, when we hope Gasol can carry the frontcourt on his own, we are going to be very disappointed.

You know what makes me feel icky? Vernon said the Grizz had to draft Green in 2012. It's never good to have Verno right.

We aren't adding young talent because we don't get high draft picks. If we don't make great late 1st round and 2nd round picks and sign diamonds in the rough like TA in free agency, we will be playoff bridemaids for the rest of the decade.

He couldn't dominate Draymond Green in the playoffs. Instead of crushing him down low, he had to rely on turnarounds and fades--on a guy he had by 30 pounds and about 5+ inches.

That is where I will always question Marc--his ability to crush a guy he has a mismatch against.

Marc Gasol is an all-star starting center. It makes him among the NBA elite and thus great.

And my only qualm was that, as an All Star center and an "elite", he should not have been handcuffed by the likes of Draymond Green.

Games 3 through 6, Marc shot 28-81 or 34.6% from the field.

Unacceptable.

The professionals willing to risk the ire of their billionaire owners to pay Gasol somehow missed the stat. Look, even the greatest of great players have stretches of one bad stat. Guess the name of this player:, "His shooting nights, with Iguodala draped all over him: 18-38, 11-35, 14-34, 7-22, 15-34 and 13-33. That’s a .398 shooting percentage from the floor." http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/lebron-j...ls-history

That also includes three pointers. And Marc was continually getting the ball within a few feet of the basket.

(07-14-2015 03:55 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 03:44 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 03:19 PM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:01 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:24 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  He couldn't dominate Draymond Green in the playoffs. Instead of crushing him down low, he had to rely on turnarounds and fades--on a guy he had by 30 pounds and about 5+ inches.

That is where I will always question Marc--his ability to crush a guy he has a mismatch against.

Marc Gasol is an all-star starting center. It makes him among the NBA elite and thus great.

And my only qualm was that, as an All Star center and an "elite", he should not have been handcuffed by the likes of Draymond Green.

Games 3 through 6, Marc shot 28-81 or 34.6% from the field.

Unacceptable.

The professionals willing to risk the ire of their billionaire owners to pay Gasol somehow missed the stat. Look, even the greatest of great players have stretches of one bad stat. Guess the name of this player:, "His shooting nights, with Iguodala draped all over him: 18-38, 11-35, 14-34, 7-22, 15-34 and 13-33. That’s a .398 shooting percentage from the floor." http://ftw.usatoday.com/2015/06/lebron-j...ls-history

That also includes three pointers. And Marc was continually getting the ball within a few feet of the basket.

James's performance was well below his norm and yet he is generally acknowledged as the best player in the known universe.
http://m.bkref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXjXXjamesle01.html.

Similarly, the professionals understand Gasol's worth and will not let one stat explained primarily by paint packing by the world's best team sway their judgement like messageboard posters.

(07-14-2015 03:02 PM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:50 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 02:16 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:03 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

I don't see how the OP is showing "disrespect" to Gasol. He's just stating an opinion, grounded in a sobering reality. Gasol has shown in his time here to be a good to great center, but he is by no means dominant. Typically, the max contracts were reserved for those truly dominant players that teams could build around and contend for a title. Gasol has shown that he's not such a player, in spite of his individual accolades. Again, I'm puzzled as to why so many here think that Gasol is the answer, when he has proven time and time again that he, by himself, is not.

If the Grizz had a legit 22-25 pts/gm scorer on the wing , then Gasol is a great center to have, and the Grizz would have as good a shot as anyone else to win a ring. As the Grizz are currently built, they need more wing scoring and bench depth. With those glaring holes, the fact that they had to max Gasol is telling.

Gasol was highly coveted by other NBA teams that would have been quite happy to pay him the max. Griz management agreed to the deal. The experts fully respect his ability. Either they are wrong or his detractors are wrong. Let the reader decide. I know which side is more fully informed.

Teams desperate for talent and flush with cash coveted Marc.

Marc is not a game changer. I think you guys think he is. I'm a fan, but stop acting like Marc will be in the Hall of Fame one day.

Marc is Vlade Divac when you guys act like he's Kareem.

If Marc had the supporting cast that Vlade did, he would be a Hall of Famer.