(07-14-2015 10:25 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:02 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 08:11 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  You sound like the morons that said Conley was overpaid.

For real?

Oddly enough, I said Conley deal was a good value because he got half of a max deal.

Why don't I sound like the morons who said Gay was overpaid?

I think the only difference is you can go about 20 deep in the SF category, so the need to pay high dollar isn't as important as paying top dollar for a center, which only goes about 7-10 deep.

Agreed.

The problem isn't next year... It's when Marc is 34 and Zbo is 38 and Marc earning almost $30 million and it's almost a third of the team's salary cap but he is a piece as opposed to the force a maximum salary guy should be.

Conley is probably going to be in line for a 5 year $80 million deal. Marc and Mike will probably eat so much of the cap space that free agents that are difference makers will be out of the question when we need to fill holes at the 2, 3, and 4.

(07-14-2015 10:24 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:15 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  I know, I know...

Marc earned that contract because someone would have given it to him, he is beloved, key to the Grizzlies' success on offense and defense, and arguably the most important player on the team.

But a max contract for a guy who averaged 18 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists.

I think that around year four of the contract, and Z-Bo is either gone or washed up, we are gonna look at Marc Gasol being the highest paid player on the team and think WTF. Much like when Rudy Gay was. Economic realities of the NBA.

I love Marc. But he isn't great. He is a very good starting center that cannot carry the team on his back. I agree it had to be done, but I said the same thing about Rudy's deal. We better hope Jarnell Stokes or Jarell Martin becomes a Draymond Green level surprise. Otherwise, when we hope Gasol can carry the frontcourt on his own, we are going to be very disappointed.

You know what makes me feel icky? Vernon said the Grizz had to draft Green in 2012. It's never good to have Verno right.

We aren't adding young talent because we don't get high draft picks. If we don't make great late 1st round and 2nd round picks and sign diamonds in the rough like TA in free agency, we will be playoff bridemaids for the rest of the decade.

He couldn't dominate Draymond Green in the playoffs. Instead of crushing him down low, he had to rely on turnarounds and fades--on a guy he had by 30 pounds and about 5+ inches.

That is where I will always question Marc--his ability to crush a guy he has a mismatch against.

We had this discussion in another thread a few weeks ago. I saw all or parts of around a dozen Grizzlies' games last year and was shocked at the shots that Gasol settled for. He made very little attempt to seal his man down low, and got the ball much too far from the basket on most possessions.

He should be able to get the ball within 6' of the basket on every possession, and should be able to get any shot he wants.

(07-14-2015 10:24 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:15 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  I know, I know...

Marc earned that contract because someone would have given it to him, he is beloved, key to the Grizzlies' success on offense and defense, and arguably the most important player on the team.

But a max contract for a guy who averaged 18 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists.

I think that around year four of the contract, and Z-Bo is either gone or washed up, we are gonna look at Marc Gasol being the highest paid player on the team and think WTF. Much like when Rudy Gay was. Economic realities of the NBA.

I love Marc. But he isn't great. He is a very good starting center that cannot carry the team on his back. I agree it had to be done, but I said the same thing about Rudy's deal. We better hope Jarnell Stokes or Jarell Martin becomes a Draymond Green level surprise. Otherwise, when we hope Gasol can carry the frontcourt on his own, we are going to be very disappointed.

You know what makes me feel icky? Vernon said the Grizz had to draft Green in 2012. It's never good to have Verno right.

We aren't adding young talent because we don't get high draft picks. If we don't make great late 1st round and 2nd round picks and sign diamonds in the rough like TA in free agency, we will be playoff bridemaids for the rest of the decade.

He couldn't dominate Draymond Green in the playoffs. Instead of crushing him down low, he had to rely on turnarounds and fades--on a guy he had by 30 pounds and about 5+ inches.

That is where I will always question Marc--his ability to crush a guy he has a mismatch against.

Offensively, Marc has never been a crusher.

He's not Pau.

If Marc was as cold blooded on the offensive end as Pau, he'd be a 20+ points per game scorer.

I wish there was a way that the Grizz could swing a trade : Marc Gasol for Demarcus Cousins Straight up. I think that Boogie could get his against Draymont Green.

(07-14-2015 10:53 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:24 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:15 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  I know, I know...

Marc earned that contract because someone would have given it to him, he is beloved, key to the Grizzlies' success on offense and defense, and arguably the most important player on the team.

But a max contract for a guy who averaged 18 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists.

I think that around year four of the contract, and Z-Bo is either gone or washed up, we are gonna look at Marc Gasol being the highest paid player on the team and think WTF. Much like when Rudy Gay was. Economic realities of the NBA.

I love Marc. But he isn't great. He is a very good starting center that cannot carry the team on his back. I agree it had to be done, but I said the same thing about Rudy's deal. We better hope Jarnell Stokes or Jarell Martin becomes a Draymond Green level surprise. Otherwise, when we hope Gasol can carry the frontcourt on his own, we are going to be very disappointed.

You know what makes me feel icky? Vernon said the Grizz had to draft Green in 2012. It's never good to have Verno right.

We aren't adding young talent because we don't get high draft picks. If we don't make great late 1st round and 2nd round picks and sign diamonds in the rough like TA in free agency, we will be playoff bridemaids for the rest of the decade.

He couldn't dominate Draymond Green in the playoffs. Instead of crushing him down low, he had to rely on turnarounds and fades--on a guy he had by 30 pounds and about 5+ inches.

That is where I will always question Marc--his ability to crush a guy he has a mismatch against.

Offensively, Marc has never been a crusher.

He's not Pau.

If Marc was as cold blooded on the offensive end as Pau, he'd be Pau.

yep

(07-14-2015 10:51 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:24 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:15 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  I know, I know...

Marc earned that contract because someone would have given it to him, he is beloved, key to the Grizzlies' success on offense and defense, and arguably the most important player on the team.

But a max contract for a guy who averaged 18 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists.

I think that around year four of the contract, and Z-Bo is either gone or washed up, we are gonna look at Marc Gasol being the highest paid player on the team and think WTF. Much like when Rudy Gay was. Economic realities of the NBA.

I love Marc. But he isn't great. He is a very good starting center that cannot carry the team on his back. I agree it had to be done, but I said the same thing about Rudy's deal. We better hope Jarnell Stokes or Jarell Martin becomes a Draymond Green level surprise. Otherwise, when we hope Gasol can carry the frontcourt on his own, we are going to be very disappointed.

You know what makes me feel icky? Vernon said the Grizz had to draft Green in 2012. It's never good to have Verno right.

We aren't adding young talent because we don't get high draft picks. If we don't make great late 1st round and 2nd round picks and sign diamonds in the rough like TA in free agency, we will be playoff bridemaids for the rest of the decade.

He couldn't dominate Draymond Green in the playoffs. Instead of crushing him down low, he had to rely on turnarounds and fades--on a guy he had by 30 pounds and about 5+ inches.

That is where I will always question Marc--his ability to crush a guy he has a mismatch against.

We had this discussion in another thread a few weeks ago. I saw all or parts of around a dozen Grizzlies' games last year and was shocked at the shots that Gasol settled for. He made very little attempt to seal his man down low, and got the ball much too far from the basket on most possessions.

He should be able to get the ball within 6' of the basket on every possession, and should be able to get any shot he wants.

Yessir.

(07-14-2015 11:39 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:51 AM)Stammers Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:24 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:15 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  I know, I know...

Marc earned that contract because someone would have given it to him, he is beloved, key to the Grizzlies' success on offense and defense, and arguably the most important player on the team.

But a max contract for a guy who averaged 18 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists.

I think that around year four of the contract, and Z-Bo is either gone or washed up, we are gonna look at Marc Gasol being the highest paid player on the team and think WTF. Much like when Rudy Gay was. Economic realities of the NBA.

I love Marc. But he isn't great. He is a very good starting center that cannot carry the team on his back. I agree it had to be done, but I said the same thing about Rudy's deal. We better hope Jarnell Stokes or Jarell Martin becomes a Draymond Green level surprise. Otherwise, when we hope Gasol can carry the frontcourt on his own, we are going to be very disappointed.

You know what makes me feel icky? Vernon said the Grizz had to draft Green in 2012. It's never good to have Verno right.

We aren't adding young talent because we don't get high draft picks. If we don't make great late 1st round and 2nd round picks and sign diamonds in the rough like TA in free agency, we will be playoff bridemaids for the rest of the decade.

He couldn't dominate Draymond Green in the playoffs. Instead of crushing him down low, he had to rely on turnarounds and fades--on a guy he had by 30 pounds and about 5+ inches.

That is where I will always question Marc--his ability to crush a guy he has a mismatch against.

We had this discussion in another thread a few weeks ago. I saw all or parts of around a dozen Grizzlies' games last year and was shocked at the shots that Gasol settled for. He made very little attempt to seal his man down low, and got the ball much too far from the basket on most possessions.

He should be able to get the ball within 6' of the basket on every possession, and should be able to get any shot he wants.

Yessir.

If you have watched Marc his entire career, including high school, he has never been the guy to back his man down. That's never been him and never will be him. He is much better facing his man.

Marc is the best center in the league. This is far from being overpaid.

(07-14-2015 10:51 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:25 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:02 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 08:11 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  You sound like the morons that said Conley was overpaid.

For real?

Oddly enough, I said Conley deal was a good value because he got half of a max deal.

Why don't I sound like the morons who said Gay was overpaid?

I think the only difference is you can go about 20 deep in the SF category, so the need to pay high dollar isn't as important as paying top dollar for a center, which only goes about 7-10 deep.

Agreed.

The problem isn't next year... It's when Marc is 34 and Zbo is 38 and Marc earning almost $30 million and it's almost a third of the team's salary cap but he is a piece as opposed to the force a maximum salary guy should be.

Conley is probably going to be in line for a 5 year $80 million deal. Marc and Mike will probably eat so much of the cap space that free agents that are difference makers will be out of the question when we need to fill holes at the 2, 3, and 4.

Someone took the Gay contract off of our hands , so even that was not too bad of a deal.

The fact is that over half of the teams in the NBA would have given Marc the same contract if he had been willing to listen. So either Latty is right or every GM in the NBA is right.....


I think many people are envious of the $$$ NBA players make so their judgement is clouded and they cant see that it is a market and players are paid based on supply and demand, not what teachers make or plumbers or even pro baseball players.

(07-14-2015 12:24 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:51 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:25 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:02 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 08:11 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  You sound like the morons that said Conley was overpaid.

For real?

Oddly enough, I said Conley deal was a good value because he got half of a max deal.

Why don't I sound like the morons who said Gay was overpaid?

I think the only difference is you can go about 20 deep in the SF category, so the need to pay high dollar isn't as important as paying top dollar for a center, which only goes about 7-10 deep.

Agreed.

The problem isn't next year... It's when Marc is 34 and Zbo is 38 and Marc earning almost $30 million and it's almost a third of the team's salary cap but he is a piece as opposed to the force a maximum salary guy should be.

Conley is probably going to be in line for a 5 year $80 million deal. Marc and Mike will probably eat so much of the cap space that free agents that are difference makers will be out of the question when we need to fill holes at the 2, 3, and 4.

Someone took the Gay contract off of our hands , so even that was not too bad of a deal.

The fact is that over half of the teams in the NBA would have given Marc the same contract if he had been willing to listen. So either Latty is right or every GM in the NBA is right.....


I think many people are envious of the $$$ NBA players make so their judgement is clouded and they cant see that it is a market and players are paid based on supply and demand, not what teachers make or plumbers or even pro baseball players.

I think you are both right.

For "production value" Marc is overpaid.

For "value as to position" Marc is properly paid as one of the top five at his position.

(07-14-2015 12:24 PM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:51 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:25 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 10:02 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 08:11 AM)BinghamptonNed Wrote:  You sound like the morons that said Conley was overpaid.

For real?

Oddly enough, I said Conley deal was a good value because he got half of a max deal.

Why don't I sound like the morons who said Gay was overpaid?

I think the only difference is you can go about 20 deep in the SF category, so the need to pay high dollar isn't as important as paying top dollar for a center, which only goes about 7-10 deep.

Agreed.

The problem isn't next year... It's when Marc is 34 and Zbo is 38 and Marc earning almost $30 million and it's almost a third of the team's salary cap but he is a piece as opposed to the force a maximum salary guy should be.

Conley is probably going to be in line for a 5 year $80 million deal. Marc and Mike will probably eat so much of the cap space that free agents that are difference makers will be out of the question when we need to fill holes at the 2, 3, and 4.

Someone took the Gay contract off of our hands , so even that was not too bad of a deal.

The fact is that over half of the teams in the NBA would have given Marc the same contract if he had been willing to listen. So either Latty is right or every GM in the NBA is right.....


I think many people are envious of the $$$ NBA players make so their judgement is clouded and they cant see that it is a market and players are paid based on supply and demand, not what teachers make or plumbers or even pro baseball players.

100% true.

(07-14-2015 10:24 AM)salukiblue Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:15 AM)Latilleon Wrote:  I know, I know...

Marc earned that contract because someone would have given it to him, he is beloved, key to the Grizzlies' success on offense and defense, and arguably the most important player on the team.

But a max contract for a guy who averaged 18 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists.

I think that around year four of the contract, and Z-Bo is either gone or washed up, we are gonna look at Marc Gasol being the highest paid player on the team and think WTF. Much like when Rudy Gay was. Economic realities of the NBA.

I love Marc. But he isn't great. He is a very good starting center that cannot carry the team on his back. I agree it had to be done, but I said the same thing about Rudy's deal. We better hope Jarnell Stokes or Jarell Martin becomes a Draymond Green level surprise. Otherwise, when we hope Gasol can carry the frontcourt on his own, we are going to be very disappointed.

You know what makes me feel icky? Vernon said the Grizz had to draft Green in 2012. It's never good to have Verno right.

We aren't adding young talent because we don't get high draft picks. If we don't make great late 1st round and 2nd round picks and sign diamonds in the rough like TA in free agency, we will be playoff bridemaids for the rest of the decade.

He couldn't dominate Draymond Green in the playoffs. Instead of crushing him down low, he had to rely on turnarounds and fades--on a guy he had by 30 pounds and about 5+ inches.

That is where I will always question Marc--his ability to crush a guy he has a mismatch against.

Marc Gasol is an all-star starting center. It makes him among the NBA elite and thus great.

I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

The original point of the thread is dumb. That poster is ok with Deandre being paid Marc's level of salary cuz of the market but can't understand how the best center in the game can make so much. Also some posters don't seem to realize the cap is going up next year. We won't have a problem paying Conley either. Marc is being paid fair market value and anyone who thinks otherwise either doesn't understand the economics of the NBA or is purposefully being disrespectful of Marc. SMDH

(07-14-2015 01:03 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

He's from a foreign country and he's white. What else do you need?

(07-14-2015 01:03 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

Every time I watch him play, I come away with the feeling that he should be doing more. He shoots almost 45% of his shots outside the paint. Every time he takes a shot more than 8' from the basket, he is giving up.

(07-14-2015 01:03 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

I don't see how the OP is showing "disrespect" to Gasol. He's just stating an opinion, grounded in a sobering reality. Gasol has shown in his time here to be a good to great center, but he is by no means dominant. Typically, the max contracts were reserved for those truly dominant players that teams could build around and contend for a title. Gasol has shown that he's not such a player, in spite of his individual accolades. Again, I'm puzzled as to why so many here think that Gasol is the answer, when he has proven time and time again that he, by himself, is not.

If the Grizz had a legit 22-25 pts/gm scorer on the wing , then Gasol is a great center to have, and the Grizz would have as good a shot as anyone else to win a ring. As the Grizz are currently built, they need more wing scoring and bench depth. With those glaring holes, the fact that they had to max Gasol is telling.

(07-14-2015 02:16 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:03 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

I don't see how the OP is showing "disrespect" to Gasol. He's just stating an opinion, grounded in a sobering reality. Gasol has shown in his time here to be a good to great center, but he is by no means dominant. Typically, the max contracts were reserved for those truly dominant players that teams could build around and contend for a title. Gasol has shown that he's not such a player, in spite of his individual accolades. Again, I'm puzzled as to why so many here think that Gasol is the answer, when he has proven time and time again that he, by himself, is not.

If the Grizz had a legit 22-25 pts/gm scorer on the wing , then Gasol is a great center to have, and the Grizz would have as good a shot as anyone else to win a ring. As the Grizz are currently built, they need more wing scoring and bench depth. With those glaring holes, the fact that they had to max Gasol is telling.

What is telling is that you don't know what is going on with the tv contract and the salary cap. The salary cap is at $63 million and will probably go up $25 million after this year. Gasol left a lot of money on the table by not signing a 1 year deal. The contract will look like a bargain when the salary cap hits $100 million in 2018.

(07-14-2015 02:21 PM)Stammers Wrote:  What is telling is that you don't know what is going on with the tv contract and the salary cap. The salary cap is at $63 million and will probably go up $25 million after this year. Gasol left a lot of money on the table by not signing a 1 year deal. The contract will look like a bargain when the salary cap hits $100 million in 2018.

I really don't care about what he could fetch next year, or after the new CBA. Gasol is not the center-piece of a championship team. If he'd done the 1 year deal to re-up under the new CBA, he knew the Grizz were doomed, because they would be stuck with him and Conley on these huge contracts with no rings to show for it. What needs to happen is during the 2016 FA period, the Grizz need to find that center-piece that they can put Gasol and Conley around to take on GSW and SA. Durant is a long shot, but it needs to be a scorer in that range (Paul George gets back to form?)

(07-14-2015 02:16 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:03 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

I don't see how the OP is showing "disrespect" to Gasol. He's just stating an opinion, grounded in a sobering reality. Gasol has shown in his time here to be a good to great center, but he is by no means dominant. Typically, the max contracts were reserved for those truly dominant players that teams could build around and contend for a title. Gasol has shown that he's not such a player, in spite of his individual accolades. Again, I'm puzzled as to why so many here think that Gasol is the answer, when he has proven time and time again that he, by himself, is not.

If the Grizz had a legit 22-25 pts/gm scorer on the wing , then Gasol is a great center to have, and the Grizz would have as good a shot as anyone else to win a ring. As the Grizz are currently built, they need more wing scoring and bench depth. With those glaring holes, the fact that they had to max Gasol is telling.

Gasol was highly coveted by other NBA teams that would have been quite happy to pay him the max. Griz management agreed to the deal. The experts fully respect his ability. Either they are wrong or his detractors are wrong. Let the reader decide. I know which side is more fully informed.

(07-14-2015 02:16 PM)Collegiate Black Man Wrote:  

(07-14-2015 01:03 PM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  I am truly puzzled by the disrespect given to Gasol. I cannot fathom the reasons for it.

I don't see how the OP is showing "disrespect" to Gasol. He's just stating an opinion, grounded in a sobering reality. Gasol has shown in his time here to be a good to great center, but he is by no means dominant. Typically, the max contracts were reserved for those truly dominant players that teams could build around and contend for a title. Gasol has shown that he's not such a player, in spite of his individual accolades. Again, I'm puzzled as to why so many here think that Gasol is the answer, when he has proven time and time again that he, by himself, is not.

If the Grizz had a legit 22-25 pts/gm scorer on the wing , then Gasol is a great center to have, and the Grizz would have as good a shot as anyone else to win a ring. As the Grizz are currently built, they need more wing scoring and bench depth. With those glaring holes, the fact that they had to max Gasol is telling.

I don't necessarily disagree with what you're saying, but if we didn't max Gasol, somebody else would have. Then we would be without the best center in the league and no 22-25 point per game wing player. I don't see where we had many options. Personally, I'm glad we have him for another five years.