(07-08-2015 05:02 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  As long as Maryland was in the ACC, WVa stood no chance in Hell of an ACC invite. The reasons were both existential based on location and mission and historical based on past conflict.

Spot on. WVU actually has a chance with MD gone.

(07-08-2015 05:02 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The problem now is that adding WVa is an addition that probably just barely covers it's costs. VT, UVa, and Pitt already penetrate the small WVa market, and WVa's overlap into DC is also covered by those three. That means what you are adding is Western West Va, and Southeastern Ohio - a very rural area. Now while brands matter, markets also matter.

In this sense, I can't see WVa ever being a 16th ACC school. It's possible they could be an 18th, but 16th means that Texas, TCU, Kansas, Oklahoma, and perhaps others are off the board.

Put another way, even though their sports suck, the ACC might be able to squeeze more money out of adding Tulane rather than WVa, even though WVa has the far superior sports program. The same might apply to Iowa State.

WVa adds the most to the SEC, less to the ACC, and almost nothing to the B10, the same way that Louisville added a lot to the ACC, but would have added nothing to the SEC, and less to the B10.

The value of WVU to the ACC has less to do with the West Virginia and DC markets than it does with the value of the WVU brand. WVU brings WAY MORE value to the ACC than Tulane and most other realistic candidates because people in Detroit, Seattle, Dallas, and Atlanta will more likely tune into Clemson v. WVU and UNC v. WVU than Clemson v. Tulane or UNC v. Tulane - even if New Orleans is a better market than West Virginia.

(07-08-2015 05:02 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 03:08 PM)BE4evah Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 02:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Motives could be way different. I believe WVU really wants to add an Eastern team. I'm not so sure Boren wasn't just setting the stage for OU to leave.

While this subject has been analyzed by incredibly talented posters and journalists, if Boren's end game is the PAC, SEC or Big Ten, then obviously that's a whole other can of worms.

It's conceivable that WVU's voice won't be heard, but never forget that the ACC would kill for them right now, once the pretense of academics playing any role in realignment was destroyed by the addition of Louisville.

The Big 12 better not let WVU get wandering eyes.

As long as Maryland was in the ACC, WVa stood no chance in Hell of an ACC invite. The reasons were both existential based on location and mission and historical based on past conflict.

With MD gone, the "Hell" no votes against WVa are probably just Va, Duke, and GT. However, VT and Pitt would have to endorse them not just fail to oppose them.

The problem now is that adding WVa is an addition that probably just barely covers it's costs. VT, UVa, and Pitt already penetrate the small WVa market, and WVa's overlap into DC is also covered by those three. That means what you are adding is Western West Va, and Southeastern Ohio - a very rural area. Now while brands matter, markets also matter.

In this sense, I can't see WVa ever being a 16th ACC school. It's possible they could be an 18th, but 16th means that Texas, TCU, Kansas, Oklahoma, and perhaps others are off the board.

Put another way, even though their sports suck, the ACC might be able to squeeze more money out of adding Tulane rather than WVa, even though WVa has the far superior sports program. The same might apply to Iowa State.

WVa adds the most to the SEC, less to the ACC, and almost nothing to the B10, the same way that Louisville added a lot to the ACC, but would have added nothing to the SEC, and less to the B10.

Lot of good stuff here

1) from what I understand UMD was one of the few supporters that WVU had in the ACC post 2000.The opposition to WVU mostly coming from Tobacco Road. I can't think of an ACC team in my lifetime that has been more open to playing WVU accross the board then Maryland. And if WVU had joined the ACC at some point in the past, WVU would have slid nicely into UMDs schedule for football rivalry week. Have never heard of the 1950s UMD vs the southern conference issue coming into play in modern times

2) you grossly over estimate Pitt's fan base/ influence . A nice rule to remember is that Pitt will only sell out Heinz Field if they are playing Penn St, Notre Dame or WVU. Their fanbase is such that they need the traditional opponent that will also bring 10k fans to pack the place, which is crazy when you think about how much a) western pa loves football b) Pitts great pre 1990 tradition. Honestly I'm not sure Pitt even is the most popular team in allegheny county. If they are penn st is a close #2 and WVU and ND are right there. They have very little pull outside of the Pittsburgh city limits let alone in DC/Maryland

WVU can give a league WV and Western Maryland, chunks of western Pa and eastern Maryland/DC and a presence in Eastern Ohio.

Jackson

I think the "eastern partner" thing for WVU is grossly overrated. Cincinatti is not going to move the football needle in WV like playing Pitt, Va Tech or PSU would. Playing them is not going to help ticket sales like playing Texas or Oklahoma every year is. It would be nice to have a drive able game for the fans and the other sports but I can't see that being enough for WVU to push hard for them. Honestly I'm fine with uc being added if it helps the league grow and progress but If the powers that be feel UCF etc would do more, can't imagine WVU would try to stand in the way of that

Jackson

(07-08-2015 04:59 PM)Hokie4Skins Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 04:15 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 03:30 PM)Okielite Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 03:08 PM)BE4evah Wrote:  [quote='Okielite' pid='12182390' dateline='1436384417']
Motives could be way different. I believe WVU really wants to add an Eastern team. I'm not so sure Boren wasn't just setting the stage for OU to leave.

While this subject has been analyzed by incredibly talented posters and journalists, if Boren's end game is the PAC, SEC or Big Ten, then obviously that's a whole other can of worms.

It's conceivable that WVU's voice won't be heard, but never forget that the ACC would kill for them right now, once the pretense of academics playing any role in realignment was destroyed by the addition of Louisville.

I do think they belong in the ACC playing Pitt, V-TEch, and Louisville. My guess is they end up going to the ACC with UT and company at some point.

I don't believe the Acc is interested in WV now or in the past. I could be wrong. But I do know that many Acc fans would love to have WV in the Acc, including most SU fans, myself included. I know Pitt and Virginia Tech fans would love to have the Eers in the Acc as well.

Let's not go overboard.

OK, Sorry

(07-08-2015 02:18 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 02:17 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  How many times a day does the Big 12 kick themselves for not grabbing Louisville when they were available??

the Big XII has so many possible options....BYU, Boise State, San Diego State, Colorado State, East Carolina, UCF, USF, Cincinnati, Memphis, UConn

give me a break....any of those schools would flourish with P5 money

Absolutely.

The Big 12 should add 6.

East:

WVU, UC, Memphis, ECU, Houston, UCF, USF and ISU.

West:

UT, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, OU, OSU, Kansas and Kansas State.

This would be a huge increase in footprint/Fan Base and Potential Fan Base, and Markets should they ever go to a Conference Network. It makes sense so it will probably never happen.

I firmly believe that once any conference moves to 16 teams, UConn is taken immediately there after. Navy along with UConn would be a perfect fit in the ACC. Navy's Football would be the Ying to Notre Dame's Olympic Sports Yang.

ECU and WVU resume our home and home in a couple years, so we're already ready to slide in

This is just one more line in the drama. He never said everyone has mentioned it to him. This is just setting the stage.

(07-08-2015 05:02 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 03:08 PM)BE4evah Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 02:40 PM)Okielite Wrote:  Motives could be way different. I believe WVU really wants to add an Eastern team. I'm not so sure Boren wasn't just setting the stage for OU to leave.

While this subject has been analyzed by incredibly talented posters and journalists, if Boren's end game is the PAC, SEC or Big Ten, then obviously that's a whole other can of worms.

It's conceivable that WVU's voice won't be heard, but never forget that the ACC would kill for them right now, once the pretense of academics playing any role in realignment was destroyed by the addition of Louisville.

The Big 12 better not let WVU get wandering eyes.

As long as Maryland was in the ACC, WVa stood no chance in Hell of an ACC invite. The reasons were both existential based on location and mission and historical based on past conflict.

With MD gone, the "Hell" no votes against WVa are probably just Va, Duke, and GT. However, VT and Pitt would have to endorse them not just fail to oppose them.

The problem now is that adding WVa is an addition that probably just barely covers it's costs. VT, UVa, and Pitt already penetrate the small WVa market, and WVa's overlap into DC is also covered by those three. That means what you are adding is Western West Va, and Southeastern Ohio - a very rural area. Now while brands matter, markets also matter.

In this sense, I can't see WVa ever being a 16th ACC school. It's possible they could be an 18th, but 16th means that Texas, TCU, Kansas, Oklahoma, and perhaps others are off the board.

Put another way, even though their sports suck, the ACC might be able to squeeze more money out of adding Tulane rather than WVa, even though WVa has the far superior sports program. The same might apply to Iowa State.

WVa adds the most to the SEC, less to the ACC, and almost nothing to the B10, the same way that Louisville added a lot to the ACC, but would have added nothing to the SEC, and less to the B10.

LP4, I'm hearing that Cincinnati would be in ahead of West Virginia.

(07-08-2015 02:18 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 02:17 PM)dbackjon Wrote:  How many times a day does the Big 12 kick themselves for not grabbing Louisville when they were available??

the Big XII has so many possible options....BYU, Boise State, San Diego State, Colorado State, East Carolina, UCF, USF, Cincinnati, Memphis, UConn

give me a break....any of those schools would flourish with P5 money

Old Dominion and Northern Illinois are two more. Both are High Research institutes as well.

The problem with U. Conn. is that they are too far away, and they would need a travel partner themselves. U. Mass. with their very high research school could be a partner with U. Conn. Sorry, U. Conn. can't be by themselves even they do not want anybody in the same area. It is what is happening to them by Boston College in the ACC.

(07-08-2015 07:16 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  I think the "eastern partner" thing for WVU is grossly overrated. Cincinatti is not going to move the football needle in WV like playing Pitt, Va Tech or PSU would. Playing them is not going to help ticket sales like playing Texas or Oklahoma every year is. It would be nice to have a drive able game for the fans and the other sports but I can't see that being enough for WVU to push hard for them. Honestly I'm fine with uc being added if it helps the league grow and progress but If the powers that be feel UCF etc would do more, can't imagine WVU would try to stand in the way of that

Jackson

Your point would carry more credence if you learned how to actually spell Cincinnati...

But, yeah, I hear the same things you do. I can't see WVU being an advocate for UC. I can't figure it out because a WVU-UC series could have turned into something really good in the old BE, but WVU and its fans really look past UC. Pitt fans did too.

Oh well... UC will land on it's feet somewhere. If not the B12 (and I really hope it's not the B12), then somewhere else.

(07-08-2015 07:35 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  The Big 12 should add 6.

East:

WVU, UC, Memphis, ECU, Houston, UCF, USF and ISU.

West:

UT, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, OU, OSU, Kansas and Kansas State.

This would be a huge increase in footprint/Fan Base and Potential Fan Base, and Markets should they ever go to a Conference Network. It makes sense so it will probably never happen.

I firmly believe that once any conference moves to 16 teams, UConn is taken immediately there after. Navy along with UConn would be a perfect fit in the ACC. Navy's Football would be the Ying to Notre Dame's Olympic Sports Yang.

I think both UCF and USF overlap each other in tv market. Just add UCF and look at Old Dominion. You would get a Norfolk, Virginia market that is close to the DC area. Would be a good travel partner for East Carolina.

Houston? I do not think Houston gets in. Too many Texas schools in the conference and would not want another Texas school in. I think MWC could be turned into a P6 conference if they lose San Jose State and UNLV, and add schools like BYU, Houston, SMU and North Dakota State which they could partner up with the PAC 12 for games. This would get the PAC 12 into the Texas area to recruit if they can't get the Texhoma foursome.

Who would replace Houston as number 16? Georgia Southern? UAB? South Alabama? Southern Miss? Georgia is also a hotbed of football as well. So is Alabama.

(07-08-2015 07:16 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  I think the "eastern partner" thing for WVU is grossly overrated. Cincinatti is not going to move the football needle in WV like playing Pitt, Va Tech or PSU would. Playing them is not going to help ticket sales like playing Texas or Oklahoma every year is. It would be nice to have a drive able game for the fans and the other sports but I can't see that being enough for WVU to push hard for them. Honestly I'm fine with uc being added if it helps the league grow and progress but If the powers that be feel UCF etc would do more, can't imagine WVU would try to stand in the way of that

Jackson

I'd agree with this. UC and WVU aren't really historical rivals. It was a nice close game for us just like recent games against Illinois and Tennessee, but it wasn't going to drive ticket sales like Louisville or Pitt (for some reason UC fans like to travel to games at Pitt).

(07-08-2015 09:01 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Who would replace Houston as number 16? Georgia Southern? UAB? South Alabama? Southern Miss? Georgia is also a hotbed of football as well. So is Alabama.

Wow... What an absolute waste of bandwidth...

>>>Ignore<<<

(07-08-2015 07:08 PM)Jackson1011 Wrote:  2) you grossly over estimate Pitt's fan base/ influence . A nice rule to remember is that Pitt will only sell out Heinz Field if they are playing Penn St, Notre Dame or WVU. Their fanbase is such that they need the traditional opponent that will also bring 10k fans to pack the place, which is crazy when you think about how much a) western pa loves football b) Pitts great pre 1990 tradition. Honestly I'm not sure Pitt even is the most popular team in allegheny county. If they are penn st is a close #2 and WVU and ND are right there. They have very little pull outside of the Pittsburgh city limits let alone in DC/Maryland

The state of Texas has the same problem. Austin, College Station and Lubbock

(07-08-2015 07:04 PM)YNot Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 05:02 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  As long as Maryland was in the ACC, WVa stood no chance in Hell of an ACC invite. The reasons were both existential based on location and mission and historical based on past conflict.

Spot on. WVU actually has a chance with MD gone.

(07-08-2015 05:02 PM)lumberpack4 Wrote:  The problem now is that adding WVa is an addition that probably just barely covers it's costs. VT, UVa, and Pitt already penetrate the small WVa market, and WVa's overlap into DC is also covered by those three. That means what you are adding is Western West Va, and Southeastern Ohio - a very rural area. Now while brands matter, markets also matter.

In this sense, I can't see WVa ever being a 16th ACC school. It's possible they could be an 18th, but 16th means that Texas, TCU, Kansas, Oklahoma, and perhaps others are off the board.

Put another way, even though their sports suck, the ACC might be able to squeeze more money out of adding Tulane rather than WVa, even though WVa has the far superior sports program. The same might apply to Iowa State.

WVa adds the most to the SEC, less to the ACC, and almost nothing to the B10, the same way that Louisville added a lot to the ACC, but would have added nothing to the SEC, and less to the B10.

The value of WVU to the ACC has less to do with the West Virginia and DC markets than it does with the value of the WVU brand. WVU brings WAY MORE value to the ACC than Tulane and most other realistic candidates because people in Detroit, Seattle, Dallas, and Atlanta will more likely tune into Clemson v. WVU and UNC v. WVU than Clemson v. Tulane or UNC v. Tulane - even if New Orleans is a better market than West Virginia.

Agreed perceived much greater brand trumps lesser brand with markets and academics (e.g. Nebraska over Mizzou or Maryland). In a case of equal or only slightly lesser brand, then markets can help influence the decision along with other factors such as institutional fit, academics, recruiting, etc (Mizzou over WVU, Rutgers over UConn).

So I strongly disagree with what LP4 suggested and think WVU would definitely beat out both Tulane and ISU.

XLance could be correct about Cincy. Is WVU's brand strong enough to overcome the perceived potential of a combined DMA of Cincinnati and Dayton and the potential of recruiting in the state of Ohio?

Maybe not. Athough I know I would choose the Eers myself. Markets truly on matter in the current paradigm of conference networks, not in terms of the national TV contract, where brand and exciting football is all that matters. Winning 3 BCS Bowl games showed they belonged. And they are hanging in there in the B12.

Cheers,
Neil

By the way, several people here have stated that WVU carries Eastern Ohio. I know for a fact they get very little coverage in Cleveland (that's a Big 10 town through and through).

I'm not even sure they get much penetration in Southeastern Ohio. Even if they did, the region is very sparsely populated. The biggest city in that region is Athens with only 23,000 people (Zanesville is about the same size but it's less than an hour from downtown Columbus).

(07-08-2015 09:15 PM)Captain Bearcat Wrote:  By the way, several people here have stated that WVU carries Eastern Ohio. I know for a fact they get very little coverage in Cleveland (that's a Big 10 town through and through).

I'm not even sure they get much penetration in Southeastern Ohio. Even if they did, the region is very sparsely populated. The biggest city in that region is Athens with only 23,000 people (Zanesville is about the same size but it's less than an hour from downtown Columbus).

You are probably correct. But it only matters in terms of a conference network. Right now neither the B12 nor the ACC have one of those.

There is no question which program draws the better ratings nationally. That's not a knock on the Bearcats, it is respect for the Eers.

Cheers,
Neil

Marshall would make a great travel partner. We know the games in Morgantown will sell out and create buzz.

(07-08-2015 09:01 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(07-08-2015 07:35 PM)USFRamenu Wrote:  The Big 12 should add 6.

East:

WVU, UC, Memphis, ECU, Houston, UCF, USF and ISU.

West:

UT, Texas Tech, Baylor, TCU, OU, OSU, Kansas and Kansas State.

This would be a huge increase in footprint/Fan Base and Potential Fan Base, and Markets should they ever go to a Conference Network. It makes sense so it will probably never happen.

I firmly believe that once any conference moves to 16 teams, UConn is taken immediately there after. Navy along with UConn would be a perfect fit in the ACC. Navy's Football would be the Ying to Notre Dame's Olympic Sports Yang.

I think both UCF and USF overlap each other in tv market. Just add UCF and look at Old Dominion. You would get a Norfolk, Virginia market that is close to the DC area. Would be a good travel partner for East Carolina.

Houston? I do not think Houston gets in. Too many Texas schools in the conference and would not want another Texas school in. I think MWC could be turned into a P6 conference if they lose San Jose State and UNLV, and add schools like BYU, Houston, SMU and North Dakota State which they could partner up with the PAC 12 for games. This would get the PAC 12 into the Texas area to recruit if they can't get the Texhoma foursome.

Who would replace Houston as number 16? Georgia Southern? UAB? South Alabama? Southern Miss? Georgia is also a hotbed of football as well. So is Alabama.

Your posts are so bad!!! No way the Big 12 will go after any of these teams other than Houston (or BYU which is doubtful. Neither MWC or AAC move up to P6.