(07-01-2015 04:37 PM)chiefsfan Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 08:57 AM)runamuck Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 08:43 AM)Beltfan Wrote:  It could happen SOONER than you think.

doubt if the sec is planning to expand and ou and osu are a package deal so that would be a twofer.

To be fair, no one saw Texas A&M moving to the SEC either. Most of their early posturings were followed by "Haha, you guys actually think you'll get into the SEC"

Next thing you know, they actually got into the league. The Big 12 nearly fell apart, and massive conference realignment began again.

Never put anything past the SEC in their quest to create the mini NFL.

I'm not sure where you got that notion. I heard for years that a-m wanted to move to the sec and the fact that they were somewhat a package deal with ut-austin kept them from leaving. The LHN was the breaking point. most of the a-m people I have known over the years wanted to be associated with the more football fanatic type conference and distance themselves from the tea sippers. the fact that the two schools dont play each other anymore is just one of the negatives of the split. a-m fans have always been more like the ones following the sec schools.

Where would this leave TCU and Baylor? The Pac-12 snobs might take Kansas and Texas Tech but I don't see them taking schools with religious affiliations.

(07-01-2015 07:02 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Where would this leave TCU and Baylor? The Pac-12 snobs might take Kansas and Texas Tech but I don't see them taking schools with religious affiliations.

Those two, along with KSU and Iowa St would invite Colorado St, Houston, Boise St, and La Tech to join the Big 12 keeping it open for business.

(07-01-2015 07:26 PM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 07:02 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Where would this leave TCU and Baylor? The Pac-12 snobs might take Kansas and Texas Tech but I don't see them taking schools with religious affiliations.

Those two, along with KSU and Iowa St would invite Colorado St, Houston, Boise St, and La Tech to join the Big 12 keeping it open for business.

And then we'll have a P4 and a G6!

(07-01-2015 07:26 PM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 07:02 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Where would this leave TCU and Baylor? The Pac-12 snobs might take Kansas and Texas Tech but I don't see them taking schools with religious affiliations.

Those two, along with KSU and Iowa St would invite Colorado St, Houston, Boise St, and La Tech to join the Big 12 keeping it open for business.

Can't happen no matter how delusional this thought is, not enough core members to keep a conference alive

(07-01-2015 03:57 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 10:07 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  I don't see the SEC taking those or any one of them.

The state population if less than 4 million.

Two teams to split that? Added Travel?
The SEC network could pick up nearly 7 times the cash flow by adding NC State and VT! And still be in the South East.

The sec doesn't care about population or market size, they care about $$$... Something OU and OSU have plenty of. Can you afford to keep up and do you field competitive teams and is your university 100% behind athletics.

Doesn't care about population or market size but only care about the money? Doesn't really make sense to me, since they are two sides of the same coin. You're right, they care about cash. OU and OSU aren't going to be giving their money to the SEC to be a member. The question is, how do they help generate cash? They could impact more money for ESPN CONTRACT, BUT there is REAL BIG MONEY in the SEC Network. That money is not only generated by advertising to more people in bigger markets, but through monthly TV subscription rates. The channel is mandated to basic subscriptions that are going into about 75% of every household in a state weather they watch it or not. Two States who actually carry lots of fans in their market (not like gast in Atlanta) , at least enough to have demand for providers to offer the network/ with a population of about 20 million and two States of market, versus 1 state and 3 plus million. Don't see the money being even close to VT & NC State. We are talking about $1.40 per household, per month!!! And those programs are all in on Football. And are in the South East. The SEC doesn't have to worry much about power rankings either. I don't see Oklahoma as much of an upside for the SEC. And I don't think the average ticket sales/ attendances are enough to tip the scales either considering that the Oklahoma programs only lead by an approximate combined total of 20,000 per game. If VT AND NC STATE get into the SEC, those numbers will jump up and they are driving distance for a bunch of visiting fans. Hey, I'm not suggesting that they would go after UNCC and Old Dominion, winning / fan base and tradition matter to the SEC. The OK programs certainly fit that bill, I just think they will go this other direction if they expand.

Middle of the pack Big 12 teams are dominating in the SEC, so why not?

(07-01-2015 07:28 PM)Klak Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 07:26 PM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 07:02 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Where would this leave TCU and Baylor? The Pac-12 snobs might take Kansas and Texas Tech but I don't see them taking schools with religious affiliations.

Those two, along with KSU and Iowa St would invite Colorado St, Houston, Boise St, and La Tech to join the Big 12 keeping it open for business.

And then we'll have a P4 and a G6!

Which is exactly where I think we're headed. Eventually there will be four 16 member P4 conferences.

(07-02-2015 05:08 AM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 07:28 PM)Klak Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 07:26 PM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 07:02 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Where would this leave TCU and Baylor? The Pac-12 snobs might take Kansas and Texas Tech but I don't see them taking schools with religious affiliations.

Those two, along with KSU and Iowa St would invite Colorado St, Houston, Boise St, and La Tech to join the Big 12 keeping it open for business.

And then we'll have a P4 and a G6!

Which is exactly where I think we're headed. Eventually there will be four 16 member P4 conferences.

you are probably right. at some point the top 60-70 programs will be all aligned and maybe not even in the ncaa anymore. they are continually working to distance themselves from the rest. those with tv draw and 75,000+ home crowds do not want to pulled down by the programs that generate little money and struggle to get 20,000 at a game. at some point the big money programs will just bolt from the ncaa and start their own organization of like schools that compete against each other.

(07-01-2015 07:26 PM)BRtransplant Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 07:02 PM)EigenEagle Wrote:  Where would this leave TCU and Baylor? The Pac-12 snobs might take Kansas and Texas Tech but I don't see them taking schools with religious affiliations.

Those two, along with KSU and Iowa St would invite Colorado St, Houston, Boise St, and La Tech to join the Big 12 keeping it open for business.

There are some deluded AAC fans convinced that the remaining Big 12 will combine with the AAC to form a P5 league. The reality is that we'd just have a p4 league, and the Big 12 would likely no longer exist in name.

(07-01-2015 10:03 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 03:57 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 10:07 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  I don't see the SEC taking those or any one of them.

The state population if less than 4 million.

Two teams to split that? Added Travel?
The SEC network could pick up nearly 7 times the cash flow by adding NC State and VT! And still be in the South East.

The sec doesn't care about population or market size, they care about $$$... Something OU and OSU have plenty of. Can you afford to keep up and do you field competitive teams and is your university 100% behind athletics.

Doesn't care about population or market size but only care about the money? Doesn't really make sense to me, since they are two sides of the same coin. You're right, they care about cash. OU and OSU aren't going to be giving their money to the SEC to be a member. The question is, how do they help generate cash? They could impact more money for ESPN CONTRACT, BUT there is REAL BIG MONEY in the SEC Network. That money is not only generated by advertising to more people in bigger markets, but through monthly TV subscription rates. The channel is mandated to basic subscriptions that are going into about 75% of every household in a state weather they watch it or not. Two States who actually carry lots of fans in their market (not like gast in Atlanta) , at least enough to have demand for providers to offer the network/ with a population of about 20 million and two States of market, versus 1 state and 3 plus million. Don't see the money being even close to VT & NC State. We are talking about $1.40 per household, per month!!! And those programs are all in on Football. And are in the South East. The SEC doesn't have to worry much about power rankings either. I don't see Oklahoma as much of an upside for the SEC. And I don't think the average ticket sales/ attendances are enough to tip the scales either considering that the Oklahoma programs only lead by an approximate combined total of 20,000 per game. If VT AND NC STATE get into the SEC, those numbers will jump up and they are driving distance for a bunch of visiting fans. Hey, I'm not suggesting that they would go after UNCC and Old Dominion, winning / fan base and tradition matter to the SEC. The OK programs certainly fit that bill, I just think they will go this other direction if they expand.

Tuscaloosa, auburn, Oxford, college station... These teams own the market of the state not the small towns they are in... Oklahoma and OSU own the entire oklahoma market and parts of texas. The population of the town they reside doesn't matter... They aren't trying to join cusa. They are already power teams. Nc state in the sec, are you f'n kidding me dude?

(07-02-2015 07:21 AM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 10:03 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 03:57 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 10:07 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  I don't see the SEC taking those or any one of them.

The state population if less than 4 million.

Two teams to split that? Added Travel?
The SEC network could pick up nearly 7 times the cash flow by adding NC State and VT! And still be in the South East.

The sec doesn't care about population or market size, they care about $$$... Something OU and OSU have plenty of. Can you afford to keep up and do you field competitive teams and is your university 100% behind athletics.

Doesn't care about population or market size but only care about the money? Doesn't really make sense to me, since they are two sides of the same coin. You're right, they care about cash. OU and OSU aren't going to be giving their money to the SEC to be a member. The question is, how do they help generate cash? They could impact more money for ESPN CONTRACT, BUT there is REAL BIG MONEY in the SEC Network. That money is not only generated by advertising to more people in bigger markets, but through monthly TV subscription rates. The channel is mandated to basic subscriptions that are going into about 75% of every household in a state weather they watch it or not. Two States who actually carry lots of fans in their market (not like gast in Atlanta) , at least enough to have demand for providers to offer the network/ with a population of about 20 million and two States of market, versus 1 state and 3 plus million. Don't see the money being even close to VT & NC State. We are talking about $1.40 per household, per month!!! And those programs are all in on Football. And are in the South East. The SEC doesn't have to worry much about power rankings either. I don't see Oklahoma as much of an upside for the SEC. And I don't think the average ticket sales/ attendances are enough to tip the scales either considering that the Oklahoma programs only lead by an approximate combined total of 20,000 per game. If VT AND NC STATE get into the SEC, those numbers will jump up and they are driving distance for a bunch of visiting fans. Hey, I'm not suggesting that they would go after UNCC and Old Dominion, winning / fan base and tradition matter to the SEC. The OK programs certainly fit that bill, I just think they will go this other direction if they expand.

Tuscaloosa, auburn, Oxford, college station... These teams own the market of the state not the small towns they are in... Oklahoma and OSU own the entire oklahoma market and parts of texas. The population of the town they reside doesn't matter... They aren't trying to join cusa. They are already power teams. Nc state in the sec, are you f'n kidding me dude?

This is true. Oxford, MS is smaller than Statesboro, GA...but Ole'Miss is a national brand with fans across the country. Same with OU...if you go to Dallas, Houston, Denver, you'll find OU fans.

(07-02-2015 07:21 AM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 10:03 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 03:57 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 10:07 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  I don't see the SEC taking those or any one of them.

The state population if less than 4 million.

Two teams to split that? Added Travel?
The SEC network could pick up nearly 7 times the cash flow by adding NC State and VT! And still be in the South East.

The sec doesn't care about population or market size, they care about $$$... Something OU and OSU have plenty of. Can you afford to keep up and do you field competitive teams and is your university 100% behind athletics.

Doesn't care about population or market size but only care about the money? Doesn't really make sense to me, since they are two sides of the same coin. You're right, they care about cash. OU and OSU aren't going to be giving their money to the SEC to be a member. The question is, how do they help generate cash? They could impact more money for ESPN CONTRACT, BUT there is REAL BIG MONEY in the SEC Network. That money is not only generated by advertising to more people in bigger markets, but through monthly TV subscription rates. The channel is mandated to basic subscriptions that are going into about 75% of every household in a state weather they watch it or not. Two States who actually carry lots of fans in their market (not like gast in Atlanta) , at least enough to have demand for providers to offer the network/ with a population of about 20 million and two States of market, versus 1 state and 3 plus million. Don't see the money being even close to VT & NC State. We are talking about $1.40 per household, per month!!! And those programs are all in on Football. And are in the South East. The SEC doesn't have to worry much about power rankings either. I don't see Oklahoma as much of an upside for the SEC. And I don't think the average ticket sales/ attendances are enough to tip the scales either considering that the Oklahoma programs only lead by an approximate combined total of 20,000 per game. If VT AND NC STATE get into the SEC, those numbers will jump up and they are driving distance for a bunch of visiting fans. Hey, I'm not suggesting that they would go after UNCC and Old Dominion, winning / fan base and tradition matter to the SEC. The OK programs certainly fit that bill, I just think they will go this other direction if they expand.

Tuscaloosa, auburn, Oxford, college station... These teams own the market of the state not the small towns they are in... Oklahoma and OSU own the entire oklahoma market and parts of texas. The population of the town they reside doesn't matter... They aren't trying to join cusa. They are already power teams. Nc state in the sec, are you f'n kidding me dude?

The more you talk about "market" though, the more you sort of enforce my point. I never said a thing about the actual town any of these schools were in. I realize I caused the confusion, please excuse my lack of explanation. In this mention of Market, I'm really talking about them carrying enough fan support throughout the state to have enough demand for the SEC network to result in nearly every TV package provider in that state to have to carry the SEC network. This only works if enough people are asking for it. I have no doubt they have the demand in their state. But both are in the same state and the population is just over 3 Million, so that isn't a lot of subscriptions in THAT sate. Now, you have a valid point about them having lots of fans in Texas.

I don't know what the % of TV providers who carry the SEC network in Texas is. It is possible that Texas A&M did not produce enough fan interest in 100% of Texas to drive the SEC network onto all provider's lineups. Since the Texas population is nearly 27 Million, this could very well be the case. It is something I really didn't think about before.

Now I know everybody has fans outside of their home states, and that OU and OSU have a bunch of them in big areas - but as far as it pertains to cash flow to the SEC network, it only counts IF they have large numbers of fans in a state that has an SEC team. Because these are the only states where the network can leverage themselves onto Basic subscriptions and also charge about 5X what they do in non-SEC states.
Looks, like they may have that with OU/OSU. So I guess the big question is: What % of Texas providers already have the SEC Network? If that % is VERY high, that would work against OU/OSU.

I assure you that the $ driving the ship on expansion is certainly focused on this.

And NO, I'm not kidding about NC State to the SEC. The amount of money that they have raised for Athletics over the past several years is unreal. In a "state market" of 10 Million, they bring a lot to the SEC Network and are in the footprint of the SEC. IF the SEC wanted NC, where else would they look? UNC will NEVER leave the ACC. And I don't believe they would consider ECU, App State etc. Besides, their fans BELONG in the SEC. They are the trailer park of the ACC. Most arrogant, (for no reason), redneck fans I've EVER seen.

(07-02-2015 11:23 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 07:21 AM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 10:03 PM)The4thOption Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 03:57 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 10:07 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  I don't see the SEC taking those or any one of them.

The state population if less than 4 million.

Two teams to split that? Added Travel?
The SEC network could pick up nearly 7 times the cash flow by adding NC State and VT! And still be in the South East.

The sec doesn't care about population or market size, they care about $$$... Something OU and OSU have plenty of. Can you afford to keep up and do you field competitive teams and is your university 100% behind athletics.

Doesn't care about population or market size but only care about the money? Doesn't really make sense to me, since they are two sides of the same coin. You're right, they care about cash. OU and OSU aren't going to be giving their money to the SEC to be a member. The question is, how do they help generate cash? They could impact more money for ESPN CONTRACT, BUT there is REAL BIG MONEY in the SEC Network. That money is not only generated by advertising to more people in bigger markets, but through monthly TV subscription rates. The channel is mandated to basic subscriptions that are going into about 75% of every household in a state weather they watch it or not. Two States who actually carry lots of fans in their market (not like gast in Atlanta) , at least enough to have demand for providers to offer the network/ with a population of about 20 million and two States of market, versus 1 state and 3 plus million. Don't see the money being even close to VT & NC State. We are talking about $1.40 per household, per month!!! And those programs are all in on Football. And are in the South East. The SEC doesn't have to worry much about power rankings either. I don't see Oklahoma as much of an upside for the SEC. And I don't think the average ticket sales/ attendances are enough to tip the scales either considering that the Oklahoma programs only lead by an approximate combined total of 20,000 per game. If VT AND NC STATE get into the SEC, those numbers will jump up and they are driving distance for a bunch of visiting fans. Hey, I'm not suggesting that they would go after UNCC and Old Dominion, winning / fan base and tradition matter to the SEC. The OK programs certainly fit that bill, I just think they will go this other direction if they expand.

Tuscaloosa, auburn, Oxford, college station... These teams own the market of the state not the small towns they are in... Oklahoma and OSU own the entire oklahoma market and parts of texas. The population of the town they reside doesn't matter... They aren't trying to join cusa. They are already power teams. Nc state in the sec, are you f'n kidding me dude?

The more you talk about "market" though, the more you sort of enforce my point. I never said a thing about the actual town any of these schools were in. I realize I caused the confusion, please excuse my lack of explanation. In this mention of Market, I'm really talking about them carrying enough fan support throughout the state to have enough demand for the SEC network to result in nearly every TV package provider in that state to have to carry the SEC network. This only works if enough people are asking for it. I have no doubt they have the demand in their state. But both are in the same state and the population is just over 3 Million, so that isn't a lot of subscriptions in THAT sate. Now, you have a valid point about them having lots of fans in Texas.

I don't know what the % of TV providers who carry the SEC network in Texas is. It is possible that Texas A&M did not produce enough fan interest in 100% of Texas to drive the SEC network onto all provider's lineups. Since the Texas population is nearly 27 Million, this could very well be the case. It is something I really didn't think about before.

Now I know everybody has fans outside of their home states, and that OU and OSU have a bunch of them in big areas - but as far as it pertains to cash flow to the SEC network, it only counts IF they have large numbers of fans in a state that has an SEC team. Because these are the only states where the network can leverage themselves onto Basic subscriptions and also charge about 5X what they do in non-SEC states.
Looks, like they may have that with OU/OSU. So I guess the big question is: What % of Texas providers already have the SEC Network? If that % is VERY high, that would work against OU/OSU.

I assure you that the $ driving the ship on expansion is certainly focused on this.

And NO, I'm not kidding about NC State to the SEC. The amount of money that they have raised for Athletics over the past several years is unreal. In a "state market" of 10 Million, they bring a lot to the SEC Network and are in the footprint of the SEC. IF the SEC wanted NC, where else would they look? UNC will NEVER leave the ACC. And I don't believe they would consider ECU, App State etc. Besides, their fans BELONG in the SEC. They are the trailer park of the ACC. Most arrogant, (for no reason), redneck fans I've EVER seen.

I do not know what percentage of homes in Texas have the SEC network. I DO know that OU and OSU combined have more fans in Texas north of Dallas than aTm does.

NC State:

https://news.ncsu.edu/2014/11/philanthropy-400/

http://www.nacda.com/sports/naadd/spec-r...14aad.html

NC State has grown their Athletic budget from about 39 Million in 2009, to now over 70 Million!


However, one thing I forgot about was the grant of rights where they gave up their broadcast rights until 2027. This might keep them and VT from the SEC table. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ights-deal

(07-02-2015 11:51 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  NC State:

https://news.ncsu.edu/2014/11/philanthropy-400/

http://www.nacda.com/sports/naadd/spec-r...14aad.html

NC State has grown their Athletic budget from about 39 Million in 2009, to now over 70 Million!


However, one thing I forgot about was the grant of rights where they gave up their broadcast rights until 2027. This might keep them and VT from the SEC table. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ights-deal

All contracts are breakable. Lawyers write them, lawyers can work around them. Besides, they throw $10-$20m at the ACC and that contract will disappear. There is always a way out.

"With nearly every cable and satellite provider having already signed on, exceeding even the SEC’s hopes, we’re looking at a subscription windfall topping $500 million the first year alone. It’ll easily more than double the $20 million in TV revenue each school annually receives."

SEC Network will have a bigger impact than anyone anticipates


OU/OSU may raise ratings enough for advertising in Texas to get the vote and could raise the number of providers with the channel in Texas. However, I'm not sure the % isn't already near 100% in Texas which would leave only the raised ratings for selling ads.


One big thought though is this: How much influence does ESPN have over these decisions? You'ed think it is a lot.

I just think about ESPN and the BIG 12 having a deal (although shared with FOX) trough about 2025 and I suppose are locked in to the current payouts even if some teams leave? Same goes for the ACC through I believe 2027. They know they would be losing ratings in those deals, but I suppose gaining for the SEC Network - which might out weigh those losses and weaken those other conferences in future negotiations. Not to mention, the BIG12's split coverage with FOX would no longer contain the programs that jump to the SEC.


How about an ACC Network?
Interesting information on TV contracts at the bottom

(07-02-2015 11:51 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  NC State:

https://news.ncsu.edu/2014/11/philanthropy-400/

http://www.nacda.com/sports/naadd/spec-r...14aad.html

NC State has grown their Athletic budget from about 39 Million in 2009, to now over 70 Million!


However, one thing I forgot about was the grant of rights where they gave up their broadcast rights until 2027. This might keep them and VT from the SEC table. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ights-deal

Any team in the sec can go into North Carolina right now and recruit whoever they want, the same cannot be said about oklahoma and north texas. Nc state brings nothing to the table that is important to the SEC... At least nothing over OU and OSU.

(07-02-2015 12:34 PM)Louisiana99 Wrote:  

(07-02-2015 11:51 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  NC State:

https://news.ncsu.edu/2014/11/philanthropy-400/

http://www.nacda.com/sports/naadd/spec-r...14aad.html

NC State has grown their Athletic budget from about 39 Million in 2009, to now over 70 Million!


However, one thing I forgot about was the grant of rights where they gave up their broadcast rights until 2027. This might keep them and VT from the SEC table. http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball...ights-deal

Any team in the sec can go into North Carolina right now and recruit whoever they want, the same cannot be said about oklahoma and north texas. Nc state brings nothing to the table that is important to the SEC... At least nothing over OU and OSU.

Nothing?? Guess you just didn't even read what I wrote.

Nothing? If OU/OSU aren't needed to raise penetration of the SEC network in Texas, then VT/NC State bring nearly 7 times what those two bring in terms of cash flow? Didn't you say that the SEC wants the $? Is not ESPN a consideration and what they think? Where is the money?

The SEC can walk into Texas (where their SEC network is already widely carried) and where they already have a team and recruit just fine now to. The SEC programs have great National coverage/following , they don't really need to be in OK to get players from TX. Granted it would help, I'm not saying recruiting isn't a consideration, but the other South East states have plenty of talent.

You are going to burn two spots to get that?

(07-01-2015 10:19 AM)RamblinRedWolf Wrote:  

(07-01-2015 10:07 AM)The4thOption Wrote:  I don't see the SEC taking those or any one of them.

The state population if less than 4 million.

Two teams to split that? Added Travel?
The SEC network could pick up nearly 7 times the cash flow by adding NC State and VT! And still be in the South East.

I doubt state population has anything to do with it-Arkansas barely has over 2.5 million and I think last I heard Mississippi was just over 3 million (and they have 2 schools!)

Oklahoma is a very profitable athletic program and with a large fan base-if they weren't attached to the hip with the pokes I think they would've been in the SEC with A&M, not Missouri.

Arkansas has 2.97 million.