(06-22-2015 09:52 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  I'm a states' rights person, so I'm not for the federal government compelling South Carolina to take it down. But I have no problem with public and corporate and NCAA pressure to take it down, because it should come down.

I believe in honoring history and what not, and I believe that the confederate flag CAN have some non-racist associations...but that flag flying above the State Capitol is 100% about segregation and racism. That flag hasn't been flying there since the end of the Civil War. That confederate flag went up in 1962 as a protest against integration, plain and simple. It is a symbol of segregation. It should come down, and should have come down a long time ago.

If I was South Carolina, I would pull it down now with a nice speech and a little contrition, to salvage SOMETHING positive.

"We've held for decades that the confederate flag honors our civil war dead of all races, and is not a symbol of racism. However, touched once again by the tragedy of hate, we take it down today, as not to give refuge to the scoundrels who would use it to portray South Carolina as a haven for the racism that belongs in the dustbin of history."

That will be better than the look of having to take it down under duress of business interests a couple months from now.

That was the case in Georgia as well. I have no problem with the flag at Civil War Memorials where it can be flown in it's proper context, but in most cases it was added as a big middle finger to the Civil Rights Act.

(06-22-2015 10:03 AM)VA49er Wrote:  If the flag was put up solely as a response to desegragation then I think it should come down as it's purpose for flying doesn't, IMO, represent the real historic significance of the the flag. Anyway, it's not the official confederate flag anyway. For what it's worth, I have no issue with the flag.

Good point. I'm shocked by how many people think this is the case. I have no issue with any state flying whatever flag it wants but at this point the "Confederate flag" is too much of a lightning rod.

Fun fact, several southern states have confederate symbols in them. NC's flag for example has the "Bonnie Blue" within it.

This is the real confederate flag.

(06-22-2015 10:12 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:10 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  The VAST majority of people who complain about it and want it brought down know next to nothing about it, other than what Facebook, MSNBC, Sharpton, Obama, and the rest of the media tells them. Sad, really.

And you know that based on what?

Because people think it's the Confederate flag! For starters...

(06-22-2015 09:52 AM)Lou_C Wrote:  I'm a states' rights person, so I'm not for the federal government compelling South Carolina to take it down. But I have no problem with public and corporate and NCAA pressure to take it down, because it should come down.

I believe in honoring history and what not, and I believe that the confederate flag CAN have some non-racist associations...but that flag flying above the State Capitol is 100% about segregation and racism. That flag hasn't been flying there since the end of the Civil War. That confederate flag went up in 1962 as a protest against integration, plain and simple. It is a symbol of segregation. It should come down, and should have come down a long time ago.

If I was South Carolina, I would pull it down now with a nice speech and a little contrition, to salvage SOMETHING positive.

"We've held for decades that the confederate flag honors our civil war dead of all races, and is not a symbol of racism. However, touched once again by the tragedy of hate, we take it down today, as not to give refuge to the scoundrels who would use it to portray South Carolina as a haven for the racism that belongs in the dustbin of history."

That will be better than the look of having to take it down under duress of business interests a couple months from now.

FYI, it doesn't fly over the state house any more. They moved it several years ago, but it does still fly on state house grounds.

It should be at Confederate war memorials IMO, but it shouldn't fly on state grounds. It is the flag of a failed state (although technically it was never the official flag of the confederacy. It didn't gain widespread use until the rise of the KKK after the war).

(06-22-2015 10:16 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:12 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:10 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  The VAST majority of people who complain about it and want it brought down know next to nothing about it, other than what Facebook, MSNBC, Sharpton, Obama, and the rest of the media tells them. Sad, really.

And you know that based on what?

Because people think it's the Confederate flag! For starters...

I don’t have to know the name of the gun to understand the damage that it has done. And there’s no denying the damage and ill feelings that black Americans have against this particular flag for a multitude of different reasons. With that being said I don't feel that a Confederate Battle Flag should be flown on ANY government property. Now if the Sons of The Confederate or anyone else who wants to fly the flag on their own private property they should be able to do so without interference from anyone else.

(06-22-2015 09:48 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 09:14 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 09:09 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I don't mind it. It's of historical significance, and I'd wager the majority of SC residents are ok with it, too. States' rights.

There are probably lots of flags of historical significance. Do they fly the Union Jack?

Well, the Union Jack is a British flag, which is the flag of a foreign country... so, I guess I don't see the similarity.

In both cases, the British Empire and the CSA were defeated by (what is now) the USA. In either case, you're talking about flying the flag of a defeated enemy.

The fact that this debate is happening at a national level proves that the flag (that is widely referred to as "the Confederate flag") represents hate, treason, and a painful legacy for millions of Americans. If individuals want to fly it, wear it, put it on their vehicle, etc, have at it. Government displays have meaning and we need to all at least recognize that the meaning of that flag is loaded with baggage. Is this really the message SC wants to send to the rest of the country?

(06-22-2015 10:27 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:16 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:12 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:10 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  The VAST majority of people who complain about it and want it brought down know next to nothing about it, other than what Facebook, MSNBC, Sharpton, Obama, and the rest of the media tells them. Sad, really.

And you know that based on what?

Because people think it's the Confederate flag! For starters...

I don’t have to know the name of the gun to understand the damage that it has done. And there’s no denying the damage and ill feelings that black Americans have against this particular flag for a multitude of different reasons. With that being said I don't feel that a Confederate Battle Flag should be flown on ANY government property. Now if the Sons of The Confederate or anyone else who wants to fly the flag on their own private property they should be able to do so without interference from anyone else.

Don't worry, that'll be attacked next.

(06-22-2015 10:41 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:27 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  I don’t have to know the name of the gun to understand the damage that it has done. And there’s no denying the damage and ill feelings that black Americans have against this particular flag for a multitude of different reasons. With that being said I don't feel that a Confederate Battle Flag should be flown on ANY government property. Now if the Sons of The Confederate or anyone else who wants to fly the flag on their own private property they should be able to do so without interference from anyone else.

Don't worry, that'll be attacked next.

Flying a Nazi flag is still a protected right in the US.

(06-22-2015 10:49 AM)Hitch Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:41 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:27 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  I don’t have to know the name of the gun to understand the damage that it has done. And there’s no denying the damage and ill feelings that black Americans have against this particular flag for a multitude of different reasons. With that being said I don't feel that a Confederate Battle Flag should be flown on ANY government property. Now if the Sons of The Confederate or anyone else who wants to fly the flag on their own private property they should be able to do so without interference from anyone else.

Don't worry, that'll be attacked next.

Flying a Nazi flag is still a protected right in the US.

When they eventually go after any southern Civil War era flags, they'll conveniently point out the fact that the Nazi flag is also still legal, and they'll try to package it together. Even though there is no comparison.

If you think otherwise, you're naïve. This administration doesn't care about the Bill of Rights.

There's too much money being made by the race baiters to stop now.

I live in SC now (originally from NC) but I think it needs to come down. There are plenty of monuments for those that served but in reality the Confederacy represented slavery which isn't anything that needs to be celebrated or honored. I'm a conservative but I think it's past time to move on from the Confederate flag and not act so surprised when it offends people, if I was a black person it would offend me too. Just my 2 cents.

(06-22-2015 10:52 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:49 AM)Hitch Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:41 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:27 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  I don’t have to know the name of the gun to understand the damage that it has done. And there’s no denying the damage and ill feelings that black Americans have against this particular flag for a multitude of different reasons. With that being said I don't feel that a Confederate Battle Flag should be flown on ANY government property. Now if the Sons of The Confederate or anyone else who wants to fly the flag on their own private property they should be able to do so without interference from anyone else.

Don't worry, that'll be attacked next.

Flying a Nazi flag is still a protected right in the US.

When they eventually go after any southern Civil War era flags, they'll conveniently point out the fact that the Nazi flag is also still legal, and they'll try to package it together. Even though there is no comparison.

If you think otherwise, you're naïve. This administration doesn't care about the Bill of Rights.

There's too much money being made by the race baiters to stop now.

Fact: The Nazi flag is overtly offensive and not banned.

Why would the "Confederate Flag" (as commonly referred to) that is only arguably offensive be banned?

You've responded to a factual counterpoint with fear mongering nonsense.

(06-22-2015 09:48 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 09:14 AM)Smaug Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 09:09 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  I don't mind it. It's of historical significance, and I'd wager the majority of SC residents are ok with it, too. States' rights.

There are probably lots of flags of historical significance. Do they fly the Union Jack?

Well, the Union Jack is a British flag, which is the flag of a foreign country... so, I guess I don't see the similarity.

It wasn't foreign at the time. Sound familiar?

(06-22-2015 10:41 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:27 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:16 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:12 AM)GreenHornet33 Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 10:10 AM)ECUGrad07 Wrote:  The VAST majority of people who complain about it and want it brought down know next to nothing about it, other than what Facebook, MSNBC, Sharpton, Obama, and the rest of the media tells them. Sad, really.

And you know that based on what?

Because people think it's the Confederate flag! For starters...

I don’t have to know the name of the gun to understand the damage that it has done. And there’s no denying the damage and ill feelings that black Americans have against this particular flag for a multitude of different reasons. With that being said I don't feel that a Confederate Battle Flag should be flown on ANY government property. Now if the Sons of The Confederate or anyone else who wants to fly the flag on their own private property they should be able to do so without interference from anyone else.

Don't worry, that'll be attacked next.

And as much as a hate that damn flag I would fight for their rights to fly it on private property. Some jackarse down in South Alabama went to a historic Confederate Cemetery and removed the flags from graves of confederate soldiers who were laid to rest there. The flags have since been placed back on the graves but this was a stupid thing to do in the first place. Look I was born in Alabama and raised in Louisiana and I know all about this flag but I do not believe in infringing on someone else's right to do something on their own property or gravesites. That's way over the line in my opinion.

I don't fly it or anything or own one or wear it or any other crap like that, but banning flags is a slippery slope to go down in my opinion.

I think GreenHornet nails it.

(06-22-2015 11:04 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  I don't fly it or anything or own one or wear it or any other crap like that, but banning flags is a slippery slope to go down in my opinion.

I think GreenHornet nails it.

The debate is not about banning the flag on private property. It is about not endorsing its display on public property.

I don't think the government (state or federal) should fly any flags other than the state/federal flags. I'm a Southerner since birth and had family who fought on both sides actually, but the CSA hasn't been around since 1865, so there's no need to fly their flag any longer.

There's a huge, and I'm talking 20'x30' rebel flag that is easily seen on I-65 which is on Sons of the Confederacy's private land. They have all the right in the world to fly it there since its private property.

(06-22-2015 11:08 AM)Hitch Wrote:  

(06-22-2015 11:04 AM)shiftyeagle Wrote:  I don't fly it or anything or own one or wear it or any other crap like that, but banning flags is a slippery slope to go down in my opinion.

I think GreenHornet nails it.

The debate is not about banning the flag on private property. It is about not endorsing its display on public property.

Yeah, I'm a bit torn on that. I certainly wouldn't "endorse" it, but I may be inclined to "tolerate" it. I don't know. I wouldn't raise Cain if they just got rid of it though, that's for sure.

The flag represents a nation that wanted to preserve slavery.

(06-22-2015 11:12 AM)dfarr Wrote:  I don't think the government (state or federal) should fly any flags other than the state/federal flags. I'm a Southerner since birth and had family who fought on both sides actually, but the CSA hasn't been around since 1865, so there's no need to fly their flag any longer.

There's a huge, and I'm talking 20'x30' rebel flag that is easily seen on I-65 which is on Sons of the Confederacy's private land. They have all the right in the world to fly it there since its private property.

Yeah you can see it from about a mile away, it’s HUGE! They say they chose that spot because it was the geographic center of the state.

(06-22-2015 11:17 AM)Fitbud Wrote:  The flag represents a nation that wanted to preserve slavery.

And our current flag represents a nation that committed genocide of Native Americans.

Sorry, bud. There's negative connotations with just about any flag. That's a weak argument to why it should be banned.