(05-26-2015 01:45 PM)HoustonRocks Wrote:  One strong team in an otherwise lousy conference could take the slot away most years, just like happened this year.

True...which is why this isn't a guarantee. But between Boise, UCF, UH, BYU, etc etc I bet we would get it most years. Right now it's mostly MWC vs AAC with a few stragglers (NIU, etc.). This at least greatly reduces that variation and keeps it with this merged conference most years.

(05-26-2015 01:35 PM)YNot Wrote:  IMO, the New American should look to expand by adding a western scheduling division/pod.

The short list to add:

- BYU (good TV ratings, nationwide following, good football, decent market, good bball)
- Air Force (decent TV ratings, nationwide following, decent football, good market, poor bball)
- Boise St. (good TV ratings, strong regional following, great football, poor market, decent bball)
- Army (great TV ratings, nationwide following, poor football, excellent market, [football only])
- San Diego St. (fair TV ratings, mediocre following, decent football, California market, great basketball)

Also under consideration:
- Fresno St. (decent TV ratings, decent following, good football, California market, poor bball)
- Colorado St. (poor TV ratings, decent following, decent football, good market, decent bball)
- Northern Illinois (fair TV ratings, fair following, good football, great market, poor bball)
- New Mexico (poor TV ratings, fair following, poor football, decent market, great bball)
- UNLV (poor TV ratings, poor following, poor football, decent market, great bball)
- UTEP (poor TV ratings, decent following, fair football, decent market, decent bball)
- Nevada (poor TV ratings, decent following, decent football, poor market, decent bball)
- Utah St. (fair TV ratings, fair following, decent football, poor market, decent bball)
- Hawaii (poor TV ratings, decent following, poor football, decent market, poor bball)
- UTSA (poor TV ratings, fair following, poor football, good market, poor bball)
- Wyoming (poor TV ratings, fair following, fair football, poor market, decent bball)
- SJSU (poor TV ratings, poor following, fair football, great market, poor bball)

I really don't think NIU, UTEP, Nevada, Utah State, Hawaii, UTSA, Wyoming, and SJSU are worth consideration at the moment. NIU is a great football program, but they struggle to get 15,000 in the stands. UTEP has a very loyal following, but haven't done anything of note in the revenue sports in ages and only deliver a so-so market. Utah State is the #3 school in a low-population state. Hawaii, just don't care to deal with the travel issues. Don't need UTSA with Houston and SMU. Nevada, Wyoming, and SJSU don't really deliver much of anything to a conference in terms of revenue.

(05-26-2015 01:02 PM)pesik Wrote:  for discussion:

1) your are underestimating how top heavy the MWC is, we'd be adding alot of bad teams to add maybe 3/4 beneficial team
1a) that counters your point about better "home games", sure you could get boise and maybe sdsu...but more than likely you are going to be getting wyoming, new mexico and san jose
1b) and diluting our SOS for that same reason

literally everything you wrote in this article we could get just adding boise alone...and maybe travel partner like sdsu..

2) only a conference "champion" can get the slo. this plan of yours might make some marginal sense "maybe" if we got rid of some bottom feeder teams and it was the "best ranked G5 team" with no champion rule, or the AAC/MWC champ got the aut bid unless one of the other 3 has a top 20 ranked team and that team is ranked higher than our champion (or some rule like that)....we increase the odds for the other g5 per team doing it your way and dramatically worsen our chances per team, as of now we can only output 1 champion a year. and honestly marshall has horrific SOS but most of the G5 doesnt. one good run from a team with great SOS with maybe a top 25 win or something will easily outweigh like a champ of ours with like 3 wins which might happen often, especially when their are CCG where a averge team could win it in a winner take all game , despite the better conference strength..i dont agree with your 95% number and actually think the merger would decrease the total the mwc/aac got as individuals combined

3) pure opinion point: the MWC is like the MAC to me, they only look good on paper because they are playing each other. 90% of their teams cant recruit at all, boise dramatically out recruits the league and boise would be about average for our top teams. and the next closest teams fresno and sdsu would probably 6th or 7th in the AAC (on the average year) and it just gets horrible after that. they get 9 win teams from playing each other. one of their top teams utah state is actually a regular bottom feeder minus the last 3 years, dont get me wrong, i think teams can turn the tide, but utah state is one of the worst ranked recruiting teams in the nation, i dont see sustained success on a team that turnovers coaches often, ranked bottom 120 in recruiting yearly and has horrible facilities with an average win total of 4 sincce the 80's (ps i know you can argue something similar for memphis but atleast Memphis is in good recruting grounds and just need a perception change to keep the locals, and has a huge athletic budget)

4) it would kill all our worth as a tv deal per team.....it would likely create larger total number but a dramatically lower per team average, from point 2 wyoming, sjsu, nm, unlv, utahstate, hawaii arent exactly the greatest football tv draws

5) the MWC value is carried by boise, if boise falls (no dynasty last forever) the mwc rep will fall to c-usa levels. they are a 1 football trick pony, the AAC doesnt have any tricks to the level of boise, but we arent dependent on any one team, any of our teams could collpase and we will still be debated as the best g5

Bulls eye... pesik is spot on on 3 - 5

If we were to somehow poach the mwc, I would push for probably just 2 of their programs but even then I would still have to think things through intelligently to further consider it.

IDK, I'm just not at all sold on uniting these two programs to form what we are currently forming (Power League) already in AAC.

JMO

Keep in mind that this is a zero-sum game we are playing.

Someone has to take 4-6 conference losses per year. If you add too many strong teams, you will wind up with a bunch of 8-4 and 9-3 teams that lose out based on record.

Conferences need some form of "balance" to keep the "big programs" happy.

(05-26-2015 01:38 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 01:35 PM)YNot Wrote:  IMO, the New American should look to expand by adding a western scheduling division/pod.

The short list to add:

- BYU (good TV ratings, nationwide following, good football, decent market, good bball)
- Air Force (decent TV ratings, nationwide following, decent football, good market, poor bball)
- Boise St. (good TV ratings, strong regional following, great football, poor market, decent bball)
- Army (great TV ratings, nationwide following, poor football, excellent market, [football only])
- San Diego St. (fair TV ratings, mediocre following, decent football, California market, great basketball)

Also under consideration:
- Fresno St. (decent TV ratings, decent following, good football, California market, poor bball)
- Colorado St. (poor TV ratings, decent following, decent football, good market, decent bball)
- Northern Illinois (fair TV ratings, fair following, good football, great market, poor bball)
- New Mexico (poor TV ratings, fair following, poor football, decent market, great bball)
- UNLV (poor TV ratings, poor following, poor football, decent market, great bball)
- UTEP (poor TV ratings, decent following, fair football, decent market, decent bball)
- UTSA (poor TV ratings, fair following, poor football, good market, poor bball)

So you are saying keep the AAC in tact and add the best of from the list above? I'd be fine with that too. Tulane and Tulsa would be happy haha.

Anymore than 18 is too much.

(05-26-2015 01:38 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 01:35 PM)YNot Wrote:  IMO, the New American should look to expand by adding a western scheduling division/pod.

The short list to add:

- BYU (good TV ratings, nationwide following, good football, decent market, good bball)
- Air Force (decent TV ratings, nationwide following, decent football, good market, poor bball)
- Boise St. (good TV ratings, strong regional following, great football, poor market, decent bball)
- Army (great TV ratings, nationwide following, poor football, excellent market, [football only])
- San Diego St. (fair TV ratings, mediocre following, decent football, California market, great basketball)

Also under consideration:
- Fresno St. (decent TV ratings, decent following, good football, California market, poor bball)
- Colorado St. (poor TV ratings, decent following, decent football, good market, decent bball)
- Northern Illinois (fair TV ratings, fair following, good football, great market, poor bball)
- New Mexico (poor TV ratings, fair following, poor football, decent market, great bball)
- UNLV (poor TV ratings, poor following, poor football, decent market, great bball)
- UTEP (poor TV ratings, decent following, fair football, decent market, decent bball)
- UTSA (poor TV ratings, fair following, poor football, good market, poor bball)

So you are saying keep the AAC in tact and add the best of from the list above? I'd be fine with that too. Tulane and Tulsa would be happy haha.

Precisely. It would be much easier to just keep the American conference in place and add to it.

And, even the best conferences have weak football teams - see Vanderbilt, Indiana, Wake Forest, Washington St., Colorado, Kansas, Iowa St., etc. Tulane and Tulsa fit this role well and bring strong academics and respectability in other sports.

Plus, New Orleans (#51-641K TV households) and Tulsa (#60-530K TV households) are decent markets that make a lot of geographical sense for fostering rivalries and Olympic sports with Houston, SMU, and Memphis.

(05-26-2015 01:50 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 01:35 PM)YNot Wrote:  IMO, the New American should look to expand by adding a western scheduling division/pod.

The short list to add:

- BYU (good TV ratings, nationwide following, good football, decent market, good bball)
- Air Force (decent TV ratings, nationwide following, decent football, good market, poor bball)
- Boise St. (good TV ratings, strong regional following, great football, poor market, decent bball)
- Army (great TV ratings, nationwide following, poor football, excellent market, [football only])
- San Diego St. (fair TV ratings, mediocre following, decent football, California market, great basketball)

Also under consideration:
- Fresno St. (decent TV ratings, decent following, good football, California market, poor bball)
- Colorado St. (poor TV ratings, decent following, decent football, good market, decent bball)
- Northern Illinois (fair TV ratings, fair following, good football, great market, poor bball)
- New Mexico (poor TV ratings, fair following, poor football, decent market, great bball)
- UNLV (poor TV ratings, poor following, poor football, decent market, great bball)
- UTEP (poor TV ratings, decent following, fair football, decent market, decent bball)
- Nevada (poor TV ratings, decent following, decent football, poor market, decent bball)
- Utah St. (fair TV ratings, fair following, decent football, poor market, decent bball)
- Hawaii (poor TV ratings, decent following, poor football, decent market, poor bball)
- UTSA (poor TV ratings, fair following, poor football, good market, poor bball)
- Wyoming (poor TV ratings, fair following, fair football, poor market, decent bball)
- SJSU (poor TV ratings, poor following, fair football, great market, poor bball)

I really don't think NIU, UTEP, Nevada, Utah State, Hawaii, UTSA, Wyoming, and SJSU are worth consideration at the moment. NIU is a great football program, but they struggle to get 15,000 in the stands. UTEP has a very loyal following, but haven't done anything of note in the revenue sports in ages and only deliver a so-so market. Utah State is the #3 school in a low-population state. Hawaii, just don't care to deal with the travel issues. Don't need UTSA with Houston and SMU. Nevada, Wyoming, and SJSU don't really deliver much of anything to a conference in terms of revenue.

To be fair, if NIU was in the AAC or similar conference, the attendance would be a little better. Our home OOC scheduling is improving as well. But right now, yea, attendance stinks.

quote='Bearcats#1' pid='12082645' dateline='1432661822']
To make sure we covered our bases a possible conference would look like this:

American East
UCONN
Cincinnati
NIU
ECU
UCF
USF
Temple
Navy

American West
Memphis
UH
SMU
Boise
BYU
AF
SDSU
Col St.

............I have to believe that a team from THIS conference would get the Access bowl slot every year and this would be a selling point for recruits. Just a thought................

[/quote]



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Bearcat....As I said on the other board, I agree with your proposal, but not the individual teams. For one thing there is too much travel for Memphis and to a degree for Houston and SMU in your draft.

IMO here is a better conference with mimimal travel issues..

East:

Cincy
UConn
ECU
UCF
USF
Memphis
Houston
SMU

West:

BYU
Boise
Air Force
Colorado State
Fresno
San Diego State
New Mexico
Navy

Play seven teams in your division and rotate two teams from the other division. Minimizes travel issues. Puts Navy in same division as Air Force and San Diego which they should like.

(05-26-2015 01:13 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I'm not talking about playoff spots. I'm talking about the Access Bowl spot. Not the same thing. Boise won the G5 Access Bowl slot last year. They did not make the playoff however. I'm not talking about the playoff. I am just talking about getting the Access Bowl Slot.

The fact that you even care about the "Access Bowl Slot" and not the "Playoffs", say's it all. The "Access Bowl", is a pacifier and a distraction while the real money is snatched off the table in front of our eyes.

It's pathetic that anyone in our conference even gives a **** about the Access Bowl. We need to focus on access to the Playoffs. We need fair and equal access to the playoffs. The simple fact is at this time the cards are stacked against us. From the start of the season the Paid5 start out ranked higher and before you cry Boise State, the Paid5 are given more props for a close win against an inferior team than even Boise State gets for beating a team marginally better than them.

So I'll refrain from jumping in on these threads. They're a waste of our time and efforts.

99 day y'all. LOL

I believe logically the move will be to go to 16. The following would neuter the MWC and CUSA.

East:
ECU
Cincy
UCF
USF
Marshall
Temple
Memphis
UCONN

West:
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa
Houston
Boise St.
Air Force
San Diego St
Navy

(05-26-2015 02:01 PM)firmbizzle Wrote:  

(05-26-2015 01:38 PM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  So you are saying keep the AAC in tact and add the best of from the list above? I'd be fine with that too. Tulane and Tulsa would be happy haha.

Anymore than 18 is too much.

IMO, a great result would be to add Army (football only), BYU, Boise, Air Force, SDSU, and Fresno.

The AAC would have:

- ALL the best TV ratings getters (Army, Navy, Air Force, Boise St., UConn, BYU, UCF, Houston, Cincinnati, ECU, USF, and Fresno)

- ALL the best in attendance (BYU, ECU, UCF, Army, Fresno, Boise, Memphis, Navy, SDSU, USF)

- excellent football competition (Boise, UCF, Cincinnati, BYU, ECU, Houston, Fresno, Memphis, Navy)

- excellent potential markets if the New American is a success - two teams in each of California, Texas, and Florida, plus teams in or near 70% of the top-10 Nielsen TV markets - NYC, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, Dallas, Bay Area, DC, and Houston, plus other top-60 markets Tampa, Denver, Orlando, Baltimore, San Diego, Hartford, Salt Lake City, Cincinnati, Memphis, New Orleans, Fresno, and Tulsa.

- great basketball (UConn, Memphis, Cincinnati, Temple, SMU, Tulsa, Houston, SDSU, BYU)

- synergies of a nationwide conference

The MWC would be left with:

Colorado St.
Utah St.
Nevada
Wyoming
UNLV
New Mexico
SJSU
Hawaii

That's still a decent basketball conference. Football would still have a chance for an undefeated team to finish as the highest-rated G5 champion

But the New American would hands down be a quality conference in both football and basketball and would take the Access bid most years and would have at least legitimate shot at the CFP - even more so when the CFP grows to 8 teams in the 2020's.

We need to lock in Army and Air Force. That would get us some clout when the p5 keep pushing their agenda. Grab Boise, CSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, and hopefully BYU.

20 team league

(05-26-2015 03:26 PM)VirginiaPirate Wrote:  I believe logically the move will be to go to 16. The following would neuter the MWC and CUSA.

East:
ECU
Cincy
UCF
USF
Marshall
Temple
Memphis
UCONN

West:
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa
Houston
Boise St.
Air Force
San Diego St
Navy

Taking those 3 members from the MW isn't going to neuter them.

One note about Hawaii I've seen mentioned before; they could help the TV deal because they create an exclusive TV window. They'd be good for a midnight ET broadcast six times a year. That would be a 9 pm start on the west coast, 2 hours after most other games have started. I know it's not as good as Army-Navy all alone on Saturday, but the only game on that late would still be the only game on. Just about every sports bar in the country would have the 2nd half of that game on by default.

(05-26-2015 01:54 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  Keep in mind that this is a zero-sum game we are playing.

Someone has to take 4-6 conference losses per year. If you add too many strong teams, you will wind up with a bunch of 8-4 and 9-3 teams that lose out based on record.

Conferences need some form of "balance" to keep the "big programs" happy.

Good point, but you still need your bottom feeders to be good enough to win some OOC games to make the good teams look better.

(05-26-2015 03:26 PM)VirginiaPirate Wrote:  I believe logically the move will be to go to 16. The following would neuter the MWC and CUSA.

East:
ECU
Cincy
UCF
USF
Marshall
Temple
Memphis
UCONN

West:
SMU
Tulane
Tulsa
Houston
Boise St.
Air Force
San Diego St
Navy

That's a lot of travel for Navy. Remove Marshall & Tulsa. Replace with Fresno State and BYU. Move Tulane to the east.

The initial benefit you mention is really no different at all from the current landscape. Without a guaranteed slot for the winner of this proposed conference, you have just as much chance at the access bowl as you do in the current conference alignment. You could argue that right now we're each only competing against the schools you listed in that hypothetical grouping, because they're the best of the G5.

I would argue that grouping all the "best" G5 into the same conference without any guarantee at the access bowl slot would weaken your chances, because you're playing the best G5 teams as nearly all your schedule, significantly increasing your chances to lose games throughout the season.

Leave Boise to rot right where they sit.

(05-26-2015 11:03 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  Hear me out on this, I would like a good discussion on it:

I have been a proponent of a best of MWC/AAC merger. I have cited things like better home conference games, better bowl line up etc. But let me throw this out as the biggest reason I think this is the way to go.

Right now if you are in a P5 conference, the conference winner gets an auto bid to an Access Bowl (just like under the BCS system). So if team X wins the ACC or B12, even if they are 8-4 or whatever, they still get the bid. Because of this, you really are only competing with 11 other teams (or 9 if you are in the B12, etc.) for an access bowl spot.

In the G5, the highest rated G5 gets an access bowl spot. But you are competing with what, 40 or 50 teams for this one spot.

So a P5 team is competing with 9-11 other teams for an access bowl spot and a G5 team is competing with 40 or 50 teams. In affect you have to be the best team of five conferences to get the spot, not just the best team of ONE conference like in the P5.

So...if you take the best of MWC and merge with the best of AAC, although it wouldn't be 100% guaranteed like in the P5, the winner of this conference would get the access bowl spot, let's say 95% of the time.

As time goes on, and the MWC/AAC conference winner gets the access bowl spot, that is something you can sell to recruits. "The winner of the MWC/AAC Conference has gotten the access bowl spot five years in a row" or "has gotten the access bowl spot 9 of the last 10 years" or whatever.

In essence we would be 'creating' a de-facto power conference. Maybe our bowl alliance and tv contract wouldn't be Power 5 and we would still be called the G5 by the media, but if our winner gets the access bowl spot 95%+ of the time, it would be better than we have now and at least a true tweener conference. In my mind this is making the most of a bad situation.


Thoughts?

I would like somebody to punch holes in this too. I think it's worth a discussion because although we can't force our way into the P5 club, by doing this, we can at least 'create' our own spot as the access bowl table.


And I know the big prize is the playoff, I get it, but for us G5-er's I say let's focus on getting an Access Bowl spot first. By creating this MWC/AAC merger conference I think we can at least take the Access Bowl spot 95% of the time if not more.

My challenge with this is you lose all of the fluff teams. SOS is important but even the p5 have relative garunteed wins. You lose this cushion and those "elite" teams would spend a good amount of time beating up eachother which increases the chances of losing an important game.