(05-17-2015 10:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 08:34 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(05-14-2015 02:45 PM)XLance Wrote:  Of course it's just plain stupid to play the ACC Basketball Tournament at any venue other than the Greensboro Coliseum.

I agree. I don't mind rotating it out of Greensboro from time to time (if only to remind ourselves why we should usually have it in Greensboro), but it should be in Greensboro more years than not.

Out of all the basketball arenas from Boston to Miami, Greensboro Coliseum is the largest neutral court arena. Holding it at smaller arenas leaves money on the table for everyone, even with the new uneven ticket distribution.

I view having it in New York as the same as trying to have it in Florida -- it's out at one of the geographic extremes of the conference, away from center of gravity of the fans. If it's going to rotate, it shouldn't stray north of DC or south of Atlanta very often.

All this reminds me of a conversation I overheard between a Maryland fan and an Ohio State fan at a sports bar a few years ago, after the Maryland announcement but before they left:

Terp: Yeah, the ACC sucks, (blah blah blah, stupid terping omitted) .. and on top of all that they always had their tournament in North Carolina, it was so unfair!

Buckeye: That's ridiculous. North Carolina? Really? Of course we usually have ours in Indiana, because it's central to all the schools.

The look on that Terp's face...

You really believe that? Why does Coach K play MSG just about every year? You realize Cuse is one of the largest fan bases in College Hoops? Add in the ACC transplants and Pitt, BC fans...BTW, Lville fans travel well to NYC too. It will be filled. The NE is a hoops area unlike Tampa.

Yes I do.

Duke plays in New York City every year because we have a lot of alumni in the area and a good rivalry with St. Johns. Not all ACC schools do. The fact that Duke will have a good fan showing doesn't mean I'd want to have the ACC tournament there.

I'm not worried about filling it at all. It's 25% smaller than Greensboro, for one thing. If it was being held someplace in Tampa it would be full too.

The only problems the ACC has had filling seats is with the expanded tournament (beyond 8 teams). Those games are never going to be all that interesting, no matter what we do. The quarterfinals, semifinals and finals have always been full, no matter where it's held - we've even filled the biggest basketball venue on the Eastern Seaboard regularly for those games, despite its complete lack of nearby musical theater and shopping.

We've never held it as far north as Brooklyn, but the fact that this Brooklyn place has 6000 fewer seats than Greensboro will certainly help, if "filling seats" is what you're solving for.

It's just how inconvenient do we want to make it for the bulk of ACC fans (and donors)? Attending the Tournament is going to be a lot of fun, wherever it is. How many unnecessary headaches (Brooklyn? Really?) do we want to add? Too many, apparently. I know I'm not going to Brooklyn.

Don't get me wrong, these next three Tournaments will be the best college basketball tournaments held through 2018, but I'm positive they'll be considered "learning experiences" by the ACC.

(05-17-2015 08:58 PM)Cody6003 Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 03:29 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 11:44 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  There is zero reason to play both in Charlotte and Greensboro. So, drop Greensboro permanently and play in Charlotte.

I Would do the opposite. Charlotte has no soul. Greensboro has character.

Character is so intertaining the day before and the day after a game.

Definitely not an ACC education.

(05-17-2015 10:13 PM)TexanMark Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 08:34 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(05-14-2015 02:45 PM)XLance Wrote:  Of course it's just plain stupid to play the ACC Basketball Tournament at any venue other than the Greensboro Coliseum.

I agree. I don't mind rotating it out of Greensboro from time to time (if only to remind ourselves why we should usually have it in Greensboro), but it should be in Greensboro more years than not.

Out of all the basketball arenas from Boston to Miami, Greensboro Coliseum is the largest neutral court arena. Holding it at smaller arenas leaves money on the table for everyone, even with the new uneven ticket distribution.

I view having it in New York as the same as trying to have it in Florida -- it's out at one of the geographic extremes of the conference, away from center of gravity of the fans. If it's going to rotate, it shouldn't stray north of DC or south of Atlanta very often.

All this reminds me of a conversation I overheard between a Maryland fan and an Ohio State fan at a sports bar a few years ago, after the Maryland announcement but before they left:

Terp: Yeah, the ACC sucks, (blah blah blah, stupid terping omitted) .. and on top of all that they always had their tournament in North Carolina, it was so unfair!

Buckeye: That's ridiculous. North Carolina? Really? Of course we usually have ours in Indiana, because it's central to all the schools.

The look on that Terp's face...

You really believe that? Why does Coach K play MSG just about every year? You realize Cuse is one of the largest fan bases in College Hoops? Add in the ACC transplants and Pitt, BC fans...BTW, Lville fans travel well to NYC too. It will be filled. The NE is a hoops area unlike Tampa.

I believe it and so should you.
Coach K playing a game in NYC is not the same as playing the Tournament there.
The Tournament tickets will go to the same people that have been buying them year after year. The Tournament is not some regular season game that teams play just to placate the locals or drum up support for multitudes of T-shirt fans.
By playing the Tournament in a far reach of the conference you inflict hardship and expense on the very folks that have been the backbone of the majority of the programs in the ACC.
You want to see the Tournament falter again? Just put it back in Tampa where for the Saturday games anyone could walk up to the gate, buy a ticket, get a court side seat and still have plenty of room to stretch out.....the demand in Florida was so high.

Geez...the horror old moneyed NC guys having to travel to NYC in mid March.

1. Fly nonstop to EWR/JFK/LGA
2. Taxi/Limo to hotel
3. Subway to Games
4. Wash, Rinse, Repeat

BTW, as a Cuse fan I've been traveling to away games for years by aircraft.

"Inflict hardship/expense on the backbone...." Wow! Self-centered or what.

It's not just NC fans that will not travel to the event in NY as you have them travel to Greensboro. The same will hold true for UVa, VT, and Clemson. Every year we see hundreds of Clemson and VT fans for the first few days in Greensboro, Charlotte, and Atlanta. They are not going to waste their money on a trip when they could easily be bounced the first day, moreover, they can't then jump into their cars and get to NYC if their team wins. The tournament in St. Pete was a disaster. I was there. It might as well have been a damn trade show.

As a novelty it can work in NYC, but not on a regular basis, especially given the current format which almost dictates that you finish at least 4th to have a realistic shot at the title and the title itself is no longer the needed game to gain access into the NCAA. Everyone who finished 6th or above in the ACC will get a NCAA bid. What you will see is people sitting at home in SC, Georgia, NC, and VA, waiting to see where their team is placed in the NCAA.

But we will see in just a few years. Maybe there is a huge demand that will walk off the streets of Brooklyn and into the Barclay center. I hope it does not snow.

(05-18-2015 07:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 08:58 PM)Cody6003 Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 03:29 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 11:44 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  There is zero reason to play both in Charlotte and Greensboro. So, drop Greensboro permanently and play in Charlotte.

I Would do the opposite. Charlotte has no soul. Greensboro has character.

Character is so intertaining the day before and the day after a game.

Definitely not an ACC education.

Probably an African American Studies major at UNC.

(05-18-2015 01:15 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 08:58 PM)Cody6003 Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 03:29 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 11:44 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  There is zero reason to play both in Charlotte and Greensboro. So, drop Greensboro permanently and play in Charlotte.

I Would do the opposite. Charlotte has no soul. Greensboro has character.

Character is so intertaining the day before and the day after a game.

Definitely not an ACC education.

Probably an African American Studies major at UNC.

Blows just don't come much lower than that.

It's obviously an inconvenience for the fans, but establishing the conference brand in NYC is a big freaking deal. Think about this - the Big Ten is so horny to do the same thing that they have booked MSG a week early for its 2018 tourney, messing up its regular season schedule and giving its schools an extra week off between the conference tourney and the NCAA's.

Holding the tournament occasionally in New York is good idea. Not really for the fan experience, but for the media attention. As novelity it works very well.

I definitely lean toward putting more in the center of the conference more often than not though (in particular within driving distance of several teams that will travel for it). You get more average fans going then (costs a lot more to travel and stay in New York), which over the long run is probably actually better for prices.

I have the same attitude with the Big Ten.

(05-17-2015 08:58 PM)Cody6003 Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 03:29 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 11:44 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  There is zero reason to play both in Charlotte and Greensboro. So, drop Greensboro permanently and play in Charlotte.

I Would do the opposite. Charlotte has no soul. Greensboro has character.

Character is so intertaining the day before and the day after a game.

Actually character denotes there being something to do the day before and after. You act like Greensboro is some sleepy little village. It is a major city that is part of a large metropolitan area known as the Triad. Heck I'm sure you can catch a good band, drink some craft beer, play a round of golf, visit an interesting historic site or whatever interests you without any trouble at all. And again, Charlotte is soulless. You could do the same things there but you would feel empty inside. :)

Brooklyn is good PR for the conference. As long as they don't go too often it should be a real positive.

(05-18-2015 01:15 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 08:58 PM)Cody6003 Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 03:29 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 11:44 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  There is zero reason to play both in Charlotte and Greensboro. So, drop Greensboro permanently and play in Charlotte.

I Would do the opposite. Charlotte has no soul. Greensboro has character.

Character is so intertaining the day before and the day after a game.

Definitely not an ACC education.

Probably an African American Studies major at UNC.

This coming from an alum of Clown College U or was it Circus Major... no it was clown college.

Of course there is a negative to having the tourney outside of the center the conference; but, we are talking about basketball and we are talking about NY. First, there isn't a coach in the conference who would be foolish enough to ignore this obvious recruiting advantage. NYC has always been a feeder to UNC and GaTech. Second, think SEC fan passion and equate that to the Northeast and college bball.

(05-18-2015 07:41 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 01:15 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 08:58 PM)Cody6003 Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 03:29 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  I Would do the opposite. Charlotte has no soul. Greensboro has character.

Character is so intertaining the day before and the day after a game.

Definitely not an ACC education.

Probably an African American Studies major at UNC.

This coming from an alum of Clown College U or was it Circus Major... no it was clown college.

Let me make a distinction for you UNC folk:

FSU has a student group on campus that does acrobatics and other entertainment and performances known as the FSU Circus. It's not actual coursework. It was started in the 1940s when FSU returned to co-ed status after WWII as a way to help reintegrate campus.

At UNC you literally had a fake major for at least two decades awarding thousands of fake grades and credits to thousands of your fellow students/alumni.

Leave it to a UNC fan to be unable to realize the difference. If you think saying "Clown College" is insulting to me, it just further proves your UNC-bred ignorance.

I will also say that FSU operates the Ringling Museum of Art (yes, the circus Ringling), which is the State Art Museum of Florida. http://www.ringling.org/

(05-18-2015 08:22 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:41 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 01:15 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 08:58 PM)Cody6003 Wrote:  Character is so intertaining the day before and the day after a game.

Definitely not an ACC education.

Probably an African American Studies major at UNC.

This coming from an alum of Clown College U or was it Circus Major... no it was clown college.

Let me make a distinction for you UNC folk:

FSU has a student group on campus that does acrobatics and other entertainment and performances known as the FSU Circus. It's not actual coursework.

At UNC you literally had a fake major for at least two decades awarding thousands of fake grades and credits to thousands of your fellow students/alumni.

Leave it to a UNC fan to be unable to realize the difference. If you think saying "Clown College" is insulting to me, it just further proves your UNC-bred ignorance.

I will also say that FSU operates the Ringling Museum of Art (yes, the circus Ringling), which is the State Art Museum of Florida. http://www.ringling.org/

They know the difference.

It's the "everybody does it" defense. It's gorilla dust. They know exactly what they're doing.

Everybody doesn't do what UNC-CH did. We all know it, including the UNC-CH fans.

(05-18-2015 06:18 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 08:58 PM)Cody6003 Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 03:29 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(05-15-2015 11:44 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  There is zero reason to play both in Charlotte and Greensboro. So, drop Greensboro permanently and play in Charlotte.

I Would do the opposite. Charlotte has no soul. Greensboro has character.

Character is so intertaining the day before and the day after a game.

Actually character denotes there being something to do the day before and after. You act like Greensboro is some sleepy little village. It is a major city that is part of a large metropolitan area known as the Triad. Heck I'm sure you can catch a good band, drink some craft beer, play a round of golf, visit an interesting historic site or whatever interests you without any trouble at all. And again, Charlotte is soulless. You could do the same things there but you would feel empty inside. :)

Greensboro is an absolute dump of a town. The only reason people go there is because they have to on the interstate to get east to the triangle or west to Asheville.

That may sound a bit harsher than intended but it is so far down the scale of places to go and things to see in NC. It has virtually no pull for people coming from out of town for a basketball tournament.

(05-18-2015 08:22 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:41 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 01:15 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  

(05-17-2015 08:58 PM)Cody6003 Wrote:  Character is so intertaining the day before and the day after a game.

Definitely not an ACC education.

Probably an African American Studies major at UNC.

This coming from an alum of Clown College U or was it Circus Major... no it was clown college.

Let me make a distinction for you UNC folk:

FSU has a student group on campus that does acrobatics and other entertainment and performances known as the FSU Circus. It's not actual coursework. [/color] Actually, it is like coursework. It is a year around program that students can join and learn circus stuff without getting course credit; kinda like remedial math or remedial reading.

At UNC you literally had a fake major for at least two decades awarding thousands of fake grades and credits to thousands of your fellow students/alumni. No, the major is accredited and have been since its inception. Within the Afam/Afri department, online courses were leniently graded while the work for that grade was less than stellar.

Leave it to a UNC fan to be unable to realize the difference. If you think saying "Clown College" is insulting to me, it just further proves your UNC-bred ignorance. Ouch, that hurt, not really.

I will also say that FSU operates the Ringling Museum of Art (yes, the circus Ringling), which is the State Art Museum of Florida. http://www.ringling.org/

[/color][color=#4682B4] And, this is impressive why?

(05-18-2015 09:55 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 08:22 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:41 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 01:15 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  Definitely not an ACC education.

Probably an African American Studies major at UNC.

This coming from an alum of Clown College U or was it Circus Major... no it was clown college.

Let me make a distinction for you UNC folk:

FSU has a student group on campus that does acrobatics and other entertainment and performances known as the FSU Circus. It's not actual coursework.

At UNC you literally had a fake major for at least two decades awarding thousands of fake grades and credits to thousands of your fellow students/alumni.

Leave it to a UNC fan to be unable to realize the difference. If you think saying "Clown College" is insulting to me, it just further proves your UNC-bred ignorance.

I will also say that FSU operates the Ringling Museum of Art (yes, the circus Ringling), which is the State Art Museum of Florida. http://www.ringling.org/

They know the difference.

It's the "everybody does it" defense. It's gorilla dust. They know exactly what they're doing.

Everybody doesn't do what UNC-CH did. We all know it, including the UNC-CH fans.

Really dude? Let's just say that sociology degree really comes in handy for Coach K. We owned up to our mistake and it was discovered and turned in by our own investigation at the very beginning of the NCAA investigation. The issue is the unverified crap that is regurgitated by talking heads in the media. The so called whistle blower and her friends that are anti college sports jumped on the opportunity and the media ran with it. Sorta like the BS FSU fans are screaming about with Winston. How the coverage was lopsided and unverified.

(05-19-2015 12:42 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 09:55 PM)opossum Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 08:22 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:41 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 01:15 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  Probably an African American Studies major at UNC.

This coming from an alum of Clown College U or was it Circus Major... no it was clown college.

Let me make a distinction for you UNC folk:

FSU has a student group on campus that does acrobatics and other entertainment and performances known as the FSU Circus. It's not actual coursework.

At UNC you literally had a fake major for at least two decades awarding thousands of fake grades and credits to thousands of your fellow students/alumni.

Leave it to a UNC fan to be unable to realize the difference. If you think saying "Clown College" is insulting to me, it just further proves your UNC-bred ignorance.

I will also say that FSU operates the Ringling Museum of Art (yes, the circus Ringling), which is the State Art Museum of Florida. http://www.ringling.org/

They know the difference.

It's the "everybody does it" defense. It's gorilla dust. They know exactly what they're doing.

Everybody doesn't do what UNC-CH did. We all know it, including the UNC-CH fans.

Really dude? Let's just say that sociology degree really comes in handy for Coach K. We owned up to our mistake and it was discovered and turned in by our own investigation at the very beginning of the NCAA investigation. The issue is the unverified crap that is regurgitated by talking heads in the media. The so called whistle blower and her friends that are anti college sports jumped on the opportunity and the media ran with it. Sorta like the BS FSU fans are screaming about with Winston. How the coverage was lopsided and unverified.

Not a single one of your fans on this site has owned up to anything, including you. You've literally said THOUSANDS of students receiving fake grades over 20 years is the same as a non-academic student organization. HeII, if you owned up to it, more transgressions wouldn't continue to come to light years after UNC said "That's all there is. Nothing else to see."

(05-19-2015 12:35 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 08:22 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:41 PM)Indytarheel Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 01:15 PM)Marge Schott Wrote:  

(05-18-2015 07:05 AM)XLance Wrote:  Definitely not an ACC education.

Probably an African American Studies major at UNC.

This coming from an alum of Clown College U or was it Circus Major... no it was clown college.

Let me make a distinction for you UNC folk:

FSU has a student group on campus that does acrobatics and other entertainment and performances known as the FSU Circus. It's not actual coursework. [/color] Actually, it is like coursework. It is a year around program that students can join and learn circus stuff without getting course credit; kinda like remedial math or remedial reading.

At UNC you literally had a fake major for at least two decades awarding thousands of fake grades and credits to thousands of your fellow students/alumni. No, the major is accredited and have been since its inception. Within the Afam/Afri department, online courses were leniently graded while the work for that grade was less than stellar.

Leave it to a UNC fan to be unable to realize the difference. If you think saying "Clown College" is insulting to me, it just further proves your UNC-bred ignorance. Ouch, that hurt, not really.

I will also say that FSU operates the Ringling Museum of Art (yes, the circus Ringling), which is the State Art Museum of Florida. http://www.ringling.org/

[/color][color=#4682B4] And, this is impressive why?

You forgot where the AFAM courses were leniently graded by a SECRETARY.
And you haven't addressed the fake courses in Philosophy. And whether it was really physically possible for Jan Boxill, the Director of the Ethics Center ( ) to teach 150 independent studies over an 8 year period.