(04-16-2015 10:39 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(04-16-2015 10:17 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  I read a story recently about Bill Walton joining UCLA. Apparently, John Wooden didn't allow his players back then to grow facial hair. Bill Walton knew that wasn't a reasonable request, so he refused to shave his beard. Wooden's response was simply "We'll miss you, Bill". And subsequently, the beard was gone, and Walton ended up in the Hallf of Fame

If the coaches gave Morman the option to stay under their terms, even if they may not be fair, then I have no problem with his dismissal.

Well I think that's silly, but I have no clue whether or not Morman's decision to transfer was his own or if the coaches pushed him out.

My point is that I think he had some talent, they spent two years' worth of a scholarship on him, he had a right to be pissed about Kevin Johnson getting starters minutes and him getting basically none, it's good that he has that fire, and it really shouldn't be a fireable offense for a frustrated player to mouth off or cuss (particularly in light of the stuff yelled at them by the coaches, or at least the head coach).

Maybe more troubling is the revolving door that's appeared. Jeremiah Davis, Kelvin Gaines, Lawrence, Strickland, Morman, and even Guyn have all transferred out in the last few years. Whether they didn't deserve scholarships to begin with or UC is losing solid players, it doesn't seem like a good thing.

What is the key element about all the players you listed?

None of them have done anything after they left.

I don't think the problem is UC, it is the player.

(04-16-2015 10:39 AM)levydl Wrote:  

(04-16-2015 10:17 AM)Cataclysmo Wrote:  I read a story recently about Bill Walton joining UCLA. Apparently, John Wooden didn't allow his players back then to grow facial hair. Bill Walton knew that wasn't a reasonable request, so he refused to shave his beard. Wooden's response was simply "We'll miss you, Bill". And subsequently, the beard was gone, and Walton ended up in the Hallf of Fame

If the coaches gave Morman the option to stay under their terms, even if they may not be fair, then I have no problem with his dismissal.

Well I think that's silly, but I have no clue whether or not Morman's decision to transfer was his own or if the coaches pushed him out.

My point is that I think he had some talent, they spent two years' worth of a scholarship on him, he had a right to be pissed about Kevin Johnson getting starters minutes and him getting basically none, it's good that he has that fire, and it really shouldn't be a fireable offense for a frustrated player to mouth off or cuss (particularly in light of the stuff yelled at them by the coaches, or at least the head coach).

Maybe more troubling is the revolving door that's appeared. Jeremiah Davis, Kelvin Gaines, Lawrence, Strickland, Morman, and even Guyn have all transferred out in the last few years. Whether they didn't deserve scholarships to begin with or UC is losing solid players, it doesn't seem like a good thing.

Other than Lawrence, all of those players were marginal at best players. Players of that quality should be replaced fairly easy, and in most cases should be upgraded.

Transferring has become so common anymore. Read that 11 of the 15 MBB schools are losing a player via transfer in the ACC this year.

(04-16-2015 10:39 AM)levydl Wrote:  Maybe more troubling is the revolving door that's appeared. Jeremiah Davis, Kelvin Gaines, Lawrence, Strickland, Morman, and even Guyn have all transferred out in the last few years. Whether they didn't deserve scholarships to begin with or UC is losing solid players, it doesn't seem like a good thing.

The thing is, Gaines couldn't really get minutes, Guyn couldn't really get minutes this year, Strickland wasn't going to get minutes and Davis had a hard time getting minutes, mostly because of the talent ahead of them. Strickland would have gotten minutes, if he'd been willing to wait but that's asking a lot. He already redshirted and Mick over recruited. Not Mick's fault either mind you, he's here to win. Not to give each kid a participation trophy. He's not going to bench Ellis and Deberry for Strickland, taking the program backward out of principle. I'm not knocking the kids either, it's not so easy to prognosticate where a kid will be at this level or what recruiting possibilities will emerge. I doubt Cronin knew Ellis would back out of his commitment to Arizona(or was it Arizona State?) to come back or that he'd be a very different player than he was before. Guyn played a lot of minutes the prior few seasons but Caupain and Cobb worked out better for what we were trying to do. He may have a very fine end run next season, when he transfers out; but are we any worse off than if he stayed and left this season? Beyond that, a lot of programs have people transferring out. Especially those toward the upper echelon of NCAAB, you don't think Louisville, Duke, Kansas etc. make room all the time?

Morman had a few moments this year, he was one of the few guys who could get by their man, although I think Caupain and Cobb got better at that as the season went along and really, thinking to that slicing he did to the rim in the Purdue game; so did Johnson. The reality, is that while the kid is an athletic spark, when he's missing multiple 3's or freethrows; he's not really contributing much. If he's bad mouthing on top of that, maybe his ego is a little too big for his britches. We had a scorer like that in Stephenson, the difference, is he could score on pretty much anyone he wanted to and he didn't, for whatever reason, talk himself into believing he was some amazing shooter. He stayed within himself.

I think Morman reminded me of Dion Dixon except he didn't rebound as well, their freshman numbers are about the same. That means that after a year of post grad, a redshirt year and all the practices; we got an entitled, overly negative version of freshman Dixon. Certainly not anything I'm going to feel terrible about if I'm the coaching staff watching him leave.

Kids transfer out of programs for various reasons at every school in div I bball. It's not like any of the kids we lost were superstars. They were all struggling to get PT and it wasnt working out for them. They can and will be replaced. Nothing to see here folks... Move along...

(04-16-2015 03:06 PM)Bearcatbdub Wrote:  Kids transfer out of programs for various reasons at every school in div I bball. It's not like any of the kids we lost were superstars. They were all struggling to get PT and it wasnt working out for them. They can and will be replaced. Nothing to see here folks... Move along...

well said

(04-16-2015 01:31 PM)Bearcat Otto Wrote:  What is the key element about all the players you listed?

None of them have done anything after they left.

I don't think the problem is UC, it is the player.

Well, Mormon, Strickland, and Guyn haven't had the chance to do anything yet. But doesn't this just mean UC is signing a bunch of guys who don't deserve a scholarship to begin with? That's not very comforting. Raiding the JUCO ranks every year doesn't seem like a very good strategy anymore.

They've now lost 3 of the 5 kids in that 2013 class, so there are only 4 players who will be sophomores and juniors this year--Caupain, Johnson, Clark, and Moore. Cronin's philosophy seems to be to beat more talented teams by having a group led by upper-classmen who have spent time in the program and system, and we just saw how a couple bad classes sort of screwed the team this year. I'm optimistic about the future, but this looks like a problem down the road.

(04-16-2015 03:23 PM)levydl Wrote:  

(04-16-2015 01:31 PM)Bearcat Otto Wrote:  What is the key element about all the players you listed?

None of them have done anything after they left.

I don't think the problem is UC, it is the player.

Well, Mormon, Strickland, and Guyn haven't had the chance to do anything yet. But doesn't this just mean UC is signing a bunch of guys who don't deserve a scholarship to begin with? That's not very comforting. Raiding the JUCO ranks every year doesn't seem like a very good strategy anymore.

They've now lost 3 of the 5 kids in that 2013 class, so there are only 4 players who will be sophomores and juniors this year--Caupain, Johnson, Clark, and Moore. Cronin's philosophy seems to be to beat more talented teams by having a group led by upper-classmen who have spent time in the program and system, and we just saw how a couple bad classes sort of screwed the team this year. I'm optimistic about the future, but this looks like a problem down the road.

can't argue with you on this point...agreed

Frankly, with the amount of transfers nationally each year, it would be a surprise for most good teams not to have one.

I don't really like the practice of pushing guys out that aren't meeting expectations, but I don't view the transfers lately as anything besides churning the back end of the roster. It has almost no impact and gives you more chances to hit on someone.

The fact that their was an attitude component to Morman's case probably made this an easy decision. Honestly, he wasn't going to play next year.

I don't agree with pushing someone out either but is there any evidence that Mormon/ Strickland were pushed out vs. being unhappy and choosing to leave?

Unless I've missed something no reason to assume the worst.

I doubt anyone will ever know for certain how mutual each transfer is, but it's hard to read Cronin's quote and believe he wanted DM back.

Cronin on Morman: “We discussed his options and future after the season and he decided to transfer. We both believe a change will be best."

(04-20-2015 08:48 AM)uccheese Wrote:  I doubt anyone will ever know for certain how mutual each transfer is, but it's hard to read Cronin's quote and believe he wanted DM back.

Cronin on Morman: “We discussed his options and future after the season and he decided to transfer. We both believe a change will be best."

That sounds like a pretty rehearsed quote for the press. Probably means nothing.

Morman will land at a mid-major program and be a good defender who averages about 6-7 ppg for his career. Wish him the best, but if we can land a guy like Rowsey, Alkins, or Cumberland, we won't miss him.

(04-15-2015 10:33 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I'd be fine with just a pure shooter who was a deadeye from long range with little ability as a 'scorer' or limited athletic ability etc....just someone to come off the bench and be a zone buster in short spurts.

Ala Hodges or Kerr from the Chicago Bulls back in the day.

Me too.

(04-15-2015 10:33 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I'd be fine with just a pure shooter who was a deadeye from long range with little ability as a 'scorer' or limited athletic ability etc....just someone to come off the bench and be a zone buster in short spurts.

Ala Hodges or Kerr from the Chicago Bulls back in the day.

Sounds like Brad Redford

(04-24-2015 08:25 AM)OneUChoopsfan Wrote:  

(04-15-2015 10:33 AM)Bearcats#1 Wrote:  I'd be fine with just a pure shooter who was a deadeye from long range with little ability as a 'scorer' or limited athletic ability etc....just someone to come off the bench and be a zone buster in short spurts.

Ala Hodges or Kerr from the Chicago Bulls back in the day.

Me too.

Count me in on this too. We could use a "designated shooter" but is Mick opposed because he wants all interchangeable parts in the lineup at all times?

Just give me some unathletic 6'1 white guard who can really stroke it. If bringing in a kid like this can come off the bench and hit a couple three's he also has the ability at the same time to force the other team to not pack it in which in turn allows our slashers and post guys more room to operate. Heck, give me two of these guys.

The Mo Valley is full of them....

So we're aspiring to be a Missouri Valley-level team now? I thought you guys wanted a national championship, like the one all those unathletic 6'1" white guys won for Duke this year.

(04-24-2015 11:33 AM)InspectorHound Wrote:  So we're aspiring to be a Missouri Valley-level team now? I thought you guys wanted a national championship, like the one all those unathletic 6'1" white guys won for Duke this year.

Yeah...the point: you missed it