(04-20-2015 07:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:20 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 06:52 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  1- it's funny to watch ACC fans talk so much noise 24/7 and then every once in a while a sobering article or thread appears where the truth is talked about. The network is a unicorn and the league is weak. You can't have multiple schools at the bottom of your league that both stink on the field and in fan base/brand size. You can have one school like that or several with one of those issues. But not a combo of both for prolonged periods of time. Wake, BC, Cuse are never going to help the league with a network or a playoff invite. Even in good years on the field the base/brand are not enough. It's that simple.

2- when the CFP expands, it won't. It will actually be the power 4 conferences(b12 or ACC lives...) who decide that the berth to that should be settled by there conference ship game.

So imagine this. In order to be eligible for the CFP you need to have at least 16 schools in your conference and can have as many as 20. Pods are a internet unicorn but large geographic divisions are a winner. Each division winner gets a birth to its conference ship game. Winner goes to the CFP. So now, every regular season conference game means something to get that bid. OOC means less towards rankings but more towards how the ultimate winner of each conference getting seeded 1-4 for the CFP.

So you dont think that Syracuse, who absolutely dominates Upstate NY for College fb and bb, will not be able to help an Acc Network in NYS? There are at least 7 million sets of eyeballs in Upstate NY, and Syracuse by far is the favorite team, and has a good following in NYC. And since you are grouping SU with small privates, you should know that Syracuse is a very large private university that is as large or larger than some state schools and flagships, and is twice as large as BC and Wake, put together.

Syracuse is not a state school, but with the fans and media attention it gets in NYS, it may as well be. The state wants SU to continue to be an economic driver, which is why it was willing to give the university $250 million to build a new Dome. Most private schools don't receive this kind of support from its State.

The question is could they survive in the ACC? I am looking at the FCOA for the ACC and their tv contract? I see some of them may not survive in the ACC. What that Notre Dame article said about all this that there could be a group of privates that could band together and formed a conference for survival. What would you think about this new all sports conference?

West:
Notre Dame
Tulsa
Rice
SMU
Tulane
Northwestern

East:
Miami, Florida
Boston College
Temple
Vanderbilt
Syracuse
Duke
Wake Forest

As I am seeing this, the Big 12 looks more stable than the ACC because of the FCOA issues. Could Syracuse stay in the ACC and be able to keep up? They might be able to, but the others who are small may not no matter the tv contracts are.

I don't take the Jack Swarbrick comments seriously at all if interpreted to mean that ND may not pay FCOA or stay at the highest (P5) level.

Here are just three reasons why:


1) A $400 million stadium addition project has broken ground:



It is the largest building project in Notre Dame history.


http://news.nd.edu/news/45875-biggest-no...athletics/


2) The new 10 year NBC deal:


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/19/sports...-deal.html


3) The $90 million Under Armour deal:


http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...aa-history


There are many more such reasons, but those three are sufficient.

(04-20-2015 08:00 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  ...At 8 teams, the champions of all 5 of the major conferences are in. That fact leads to several things I think will undermine the conferences elsewhere.

1. If you are an ACC fan, what happens in the PAC-12 is almost irrelevant. Same goes for the rest. The 3 at larges are still up, but the primary means of getting there is through the automatic bid and casual fans are not going to turn in as much to see an at large possibility of an 8 team playoff as they are for the primary 4. Maybe the last week or two is just as exciting, but 90% of the season isn't. Imagine you have #2 USC playing #10 Oregon in October. It's a big game still sure and could have play off implications. It does not however have anywhere near the same meaning as the two will likely be meeting in the conference championship anyway and a bid will still be on the line then.

So here are the choices:

A) expand to 8-team playoff, which makes my conference race bigger but my fans might care less about other conferences.

B) stay at four because that helps boost tv ratings for another conference, on another network.

Hmmm...

If you chose "A", you are correct!

(04-20-2015 08:07 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:29 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:20 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 06:52 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  1- it's funny to watch ACC fans talk so much noise 24/7 and then every once in a while a sobering article or thread appears where the truth is talked about. The network is a unicorn and the league is weak. You can't have multiple schools at the bottom of your league that both stink on the field and in fan base/brand size. You can have one school like that or several with one of those issues. But not a combo of both for prolonged periods of time. Wake, BC, Cuse are never going to help the league with a network or a playoff invite. Even in good years on the field the base/brand are not enough. It's that simple.

2- when the CFP expands, it won't. It will actually be the power 4 conferences(b12 or ACC lives...) who decide that the berth to that should be settled by there conference ship game.

So imagine this. In order to be eligible for the CFP you need to have at least 16 schools in your conference and can have as many as 20. Pods are a internet unicorn but large geographic divisions are a winner. Each division winner gets a birth to its conference ship game. Winner goes to the CFP. So now, every regular season conference game means something to get that bid. OOC means less towards rankings but more towards how the ultimate winner of each conference getting seeded 1-4 for the CFP.

So you dont think that Syracuse, who absolutely dominates Upstate NY for College fb and bb, will not be able to help an Acc Network in NYS? There are at least 7 million sets of eyeballs in Upstate NY, and Syracuse by far is the favorite team, and has a good following in NYC. And since you are grouping SU with small privates, you should know that Syracuse is a very large private university that is as large or larger than some state schools and flagships, and is twice as large as BC and Wake, put together.

Syracuse is not a state school, but with the fans and media attention it gets in NYS, it may as well be. The state wants SU to continue to be an economic driver, which is why it was willing to give the university $250 million to build a new Dome. Most private schools don't receive this kind of support from its State.

The question is could they survive in the ACC? I am looking at the FCOA for the ACC and their tv contract? I see some of them may not survive in the ACC. What that Notre Dame article said about all this that there could be a group of privates that could band together and formed a conference for survival. What would you think about this new all sports conference?

West:
Notre Dame
Tulsa
Rice
SMU
Tulane
Northwestern

East:
Miami, Florida
Boston College
Temple
Vanderbilt
Syracuse
Duke
Wake Forest

As I am seeing this, the Big 12 looks more stable than the ACC because of the FCOA issues. Could Syracuse stay in the ACC and be able to keep up? They might be able to, but the others who are small may not no matter the tv contracts are.

I don't take the Jack Swarbrick comments seriously at all if interpreted to mean that ND may not pay FCOA or stay at the highest (P5) level.

Here are just three reasons why:


1) A $400 million stadium addition project has broken ground:




http://news.nd.edu/news/45875-biggest-no...athletics/


2) The new 10 year NBC deal:


http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/19/sports...-deal.html


3) The $90 million Under Armour deal:


http://espn.go.com/college-football/stor...aa-history


There are many more such reasons, but those three are sufficient.

Yep....

(04-20-2015 07:59 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:20 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 06:52 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  1- it's funny to watch ACC fans talk so much noise 24/7 and then every once in a while a sobering article or thread appears where the truth is talked about. The network is a unicorn and the league is weak. You can't have multiple schools at the bottom of your league that both stink on the field and in fan base/brand size. You can have one school like that or several with one of those issues. But not a combo of both for prolonged periods of time. Wake, BC, Cuse are never going to help the league with a network or a playoff invite. Even in good years on the field the base/brand are not enough. It's that simple.

2- when the CFP expands, it won't. It will actually be the power 4 conferences(b12 or ACC lives...) who decide that the berth to that should be settled by there conference ship game.

So imagine this. In order to be eligible for the CFP you need to have at least 16 schools in your conference and can have as many as 20. Pods are a internet unicorn but large geographic divisions are a winner. Each division winner gets a birth to its conference ship game. Winner goes to the CFP. So now, every regular season conference game means something to get that bid. OOC means less towards rankings but more towards how the ultimate winner of each conference getting seeded 1-4 for the CFP.

So you dont think that Syracuse, who absolutely dominates Upstate NY for College fb and bb, will not be able to help an Acc Network in NYS? There are at least 7 million sets of eyeballs in Upstate NY, and Syracuse by far is the favorite team, and has a good following in NYC. And since you are grouping SU with small privates, you should know that Syracuse is a very large private university that is as large or larger than some state schools and flagships, and is twice as large as BC and Wake, put together.

Syracuse is not a state school, but with the fans and media attention it gets in NYS, it may as well be. The state wants SU to continue to be an economic driver, which is why it was willing to give the university $250 million to build a new Dome. Most private schools dont receive this kind of support from its State.

I think Cuse definetly does carry update NY. The problem is this. The other power conferences network wise are going to show hockey, baseball, soccer and some lax it seems. Those will be the primary fillers. Cuse bball is a top 15 all time program and while the next couple years will be a bit ruff they are still what they are. When Cuse has a big bball game it's going to get ESPN or some type of national channel. It's a high tier game. So that doesn't help the network. Cuse doesn't play baseball or hockey. So all Cuse brings to a network is the bottom half of its home schedule of basketball games. It's women's basketball as far as I know isn't a major but I could be wrong? I think only a few are viewer gains like ND, UConn and Stanford.

Yes I realize the ACC doesn't have hockey but the point is where is the content to buy becuase you want to watch it?
It lacks content. And Cuse lacks more than other schools.

So upstate NY is going to buy the mythical ACCNetwork to watch 5-10 games vs non top teams mostly and some of those will be home games people will attend vs tv watch?

I don't see it. Cuse gets 30k for basketball games and only 40k for football. How is it you don't get 70k for football with such a huge number population wise to draw from? Yes I know your stadium is like 50k size wise. Seriously though. Do you come even close to really carrying that population?

Here is what I think is a fair example.

The B1G is going to show double digit live football games in the fall on the B1GN. They are going to show a mix of high and low quality bball all season. They are going to show live soccer games of mixed quality, live top ranked volley ball games, live quality hockey, live women's bball with mixed quality, live lax, live baseball and live softball.

What is the ACCN going to show? Minus volley ball and hockey the same let's say? ESPN is going to cherry pick bball games every week as they please becuase they own everything. Of what's left Cuse isn't worthy in women's bball so the ACCN is going to show ND, LVille, Duke, UNC non national games as they please. Cuse lax will surely get play. They don't play baseball. I have no clue if they play softball and if so I doubt they get time as a small brand. How about soccer? No clue.

UNC is going to be a network monster. UVA is a network monster. You need to be top at several other sports and have the brand/base that cares about it. Cuse may live in a state wi a large population, but they don't care. If they did you would have a stadium full or a larger stadium on par with other institutions your size in the college football world. There's a reason you get lumped together with the schools you do. My 2 cents. You can't be playing big time college football and basketball for so long and have just this to show for it. It's like a missed opportunity of epic levels or the answer is simple, the market/base isn't what people say it is in update NY. Schools like UCF and UConn have been playing football for 10 years and have gotten 40k in seats pretty quickly. What happens if they had 30 years to build that base? Cuse is what it is. Should have gone SUNY last decade when offered.

Let me put it this way. When Syracuse joined the ACC, the ACC immediately was able to get a deal with MSG Network and the YES Network. The Acc never had any deals with those 2 networks before. The Syracuse brand is a much more powerful brand than you give it credit for. Abd you need to squash this whole thing that you "heard about SUNY". Thats a bunch of mularky.

In the case of the ACC I think you have to give it a little time with all the new additions to the conference.

We get 4 years into this thing and its still a problem for FSU its time for the conference to do something like bring in Texas as a partial schedule member to tilt the power more toward the ACC. Cincinnati should be looked at to if they get back into being a regular Top 25 team.

(04-20-2015 07:59 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:20 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 06:52 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  1- it's funny to watch ACC fans talk so much noise 24/7 and then every once in a while a sobering article or thread appears where the truth is talked about. The network is a unicorn and the league is weak. You can't have multiple schools at the bottom of your league that both stink on the field and in fan base/brand size. You can have one school like that or several with one of those issues. But not a combo of both for prolonged periods of time. Wake, BC, Cuse are never going to help the league with a network or a playoff invite. Even in good years on the field the base/brand are not enough. It's that simple.

2- when the CFP expands, it won't. It will actually be the power 4 conferences(b12 or ACC lives...) who decide that the berth to that should be settled by there conference ship game.

So imagine this. In order to be eligible for the CFP you need to have at least 16 schools in your conference and can have as many as 20. Pods are a internet unicorn but large geographic divisions are a winner. Each division winner gets a birth to its conference ship game. Winner goes to the CFP. So now, every regular season conference game means something to get that bid. OOC means less towards rankings but more towards how the ultimate winner of each conference getting seeded 1-4 for the CFP.

So you dont think that Syracuse, who absolutely dominates Upstate NY for College fb and bb, will not be able to help an Acc Network in NYS? There are at least 7 million sets of eyeballs in Upstate NY, and Syracuse by far is the favorite team, and has a good following in NYC. And since you are grouping SU with small privates, you should know that Syracuse is a very large private university that is as large or larger than some state schools and flagships, and is twice as large as BC and Wake, put together.

Syracuse is not a state school, but with the fans and media attention it gets in NYS, it may as well be. The state wants SU to continue to be an economic driver, which is why it was willing to give the university $250 million to build a new Dome. Most private schools dont receive this kind of support from its State.

I think Cuse definetly does carry update NY. The problem is this. The other power conferences network wise are going to show hockey, baseball, soccer and some lax it seems. Those will be the primary fillers. Cuse bball is a top 15 all time program and while the next couple years will be a bit ruff they are still what they are. When Cuse has a big bball game it's going to get ESPN or some type of national channel. It's a high tier game. So that doesn't help the network. Cuse doesn't play baseball or hockey. So all Cuse brings to a network is the bottom half of its home schedule of basketball games. It's women's basketball as far as I know isn't a major but I could be wrong? I think only a few are viewer gains like ND, UConn and Stanford.

Yes I realize the ACC doesn't have hockey but the point is where is the content to buy becuase you want to watch it?
It lacks content. And Cuse lacks more than other schools.

So upstate NY is going to buy the mythical ACCNetwork to watch 5-10 games vs non top teams mostly and some of those will be home games people will attend vs tv watch?

I don't see it. Cuse gets 30k for basketball games and only 40k for football. How is it you don't get 70k for football with such a huge number population wise to draw from? Yes I know your stadium is like 50k size wise. Seriously though. Do you come even close to really carrying that population?

Here is what I think is a fair example.

The B1G is going to show double digit live football games in the fall on the B1GN. They are going to show a mix of high and low quality bball all season. They are going to show live soccer games of mixed quality, live top ranked volley ball games, live quality hockey, live women's bball with mixed quality, live lax, live baseball and live softball.

What is the ACCN going to show? Minus volley ball and hockey the same let's say? ESPN is going to cherry pick bball games every week as they please becuase they own everything. Of what's left Cuse isn't worthy in women's bball so the ACCN is going to show ND, LVille, Duke, UNC non national games as they please. Cuse lax will surely get play. They don't play baseball. I have no clue if they play softball and if so I doubt they get time as a small brand. How about soccer? No clue.

UNC is going to be a network monster. UVA is a network monster. You need to be top at several other sports and have the brand/base that cares about it. Cuse may live in a state wi a large population, but they don't care. If they did you would have a stadium full or a larger stadium on par with other institutions your size in the college football world. There's a reason you get lumped together with the schools you do. My 2 cents. You can't be playing big time college football and basketball for so long and have just this to show for it. It's like a missed opportunity of epic levels or the answer is simple, the market/base isn't what people say it is in update NY. Schools like UCF and UConn have been playing football for 10 years and have gotten 40k in seats pretty quickly. What happens if they had 30 years to build that base? Cuse is what it is. Should have gone SUNY last decade when offered.

I hate myself for saying this, but Syracuse has some good content. They finished just outside the top 50 in the Director's Cup last season. People will tune into Syracuse MBB games even when its not those top ESPN match-ups. Lacrosse and soccer are good, and they have been building a nice WBB program. (I'm giving being in a conference with UCONN some credit for that.)

(04-20-2015 08:03 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 06:58 PM)DavidSt Wrote:  Even TCU could beat Florida State. The issue was that Florida State almost lost to 2 teams who were almost upset by Georgia Southern.

ALMOST.

Here's what DID happen: TCU lost to a team that lost to UCF in the 2014 Fiesta Bowl.

SMACK FAIL.

TCU would have kicked the sh!t out of FSU this past year.

(04-20-2015 08:12 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:59 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:20 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 06:52 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  1- it's funny to watch ACC fans talk so much noise 24/7 and then every once in a while a sobering article or thread appears where the truth is talked about. The network is a unicorn and the league is weak. You can't have multiple schools at the bottom of your league that both stink on the field and in fan base/brand size. You can have one school like that or several with one of those issues. But not a combo of both for prolonged periods of time. Wake, BC, Cuse are never going to help the league with a network or a playoff invite. Even in good years on the field the base/brand are not enough. It's that simple.

2- when the CFP expands, it won't. It will actually be the power 4 conferences(b12 or ACC lives...) who decide that the berth to that should be settled by there conference ship game.

So imagine this. In order to be eligible for the CFP you need to have at least 16 schools in your conference and can have as many as 20. Pods are a internet unicorn but large geographic divisions are a winner. Each division winner gets a birth to its conference ship game. Winner goes to the CFP. So now, every regular season conference game means something to get that bid. OOC means less towards rankings but more towards how the ultimate winner of each conference getting seeded 1-4 for the CFP.

So you dont think that Syracuse, who absolutely dominates Upstate NY for College fb and bb, will not be able to help an Acc Network in NYS? There are at least 7 million sets of eyeballs in Upstate NY, and Syracuse by far is the favorite team, and has a good following in NYC. And since you are grouping SU with small privates, you should know that Syracuse is a very large private university that is as large or larger than some state schools and flagships, and is twice as large as BC and Wake, put together.

Syracuse is not a state school, but with the fans and media attention it gets in NYS, it may as well be. The state wants SU to continue to be an economic driver, which is why it was willing to give the university $250 million to build a new Dome. Most private schools dont receive this kind of support from its State.

I think Cuse definetly does carry update NY. The problem is this. The other power conferences network wise are going to show hockey, baseball, soccer and some lax it seems. Those will be the primary fillers. Cuse bball is a top 15 all time program and while the next couple years will be a bit ruff they are still what they are. When Cuse has a big bball game it's going to get ESPN or some type of national channel. It's a high tier game. So that doesn't help the network. Cuse doesn't play baseball or hockey. So all Cuse brings to a network is the bottom half of its home schedule of basketball games. It's women's basketball as far as I know isn't a major but I could be wrong? I think only a few are viewer gains like ND, UConn and Stanford.

Yes I realize the ACC doesn't have hockey but the point is where is the content to buy becuase you want to watch it?
It lacks content. And Cuse lacks more than other schools.

So upstate NY is going to buy the mythical ACCNetwork to watch 5-10 games vs non top teams mostly and some of those will be home games people will attend vs tv watch?

I don't see it. Cuse gets 30k for basketball games and only 40k for football. How is it you don't get 70k for football with such a huge number population wise to draw from? Yes I know your stadium is like 50k size wise. Seriously though. Do you come even close to really carrying that population?

Here is what I think is a fair example.

The B1G is going to show double digit live football games in the fall on the B1GN. They are going to show a mix of high and low quality bball all season. They are going to show live soccer games of mixed quality, live top ranked volley ball games, live quality hockey, live women's bball with mixed quality, live lax, live baseball and live softball.

What is the ACCN going to show? Minus volley ball and hockey the same let's say? ESPN is going to cherry pick bball games every week as they please becuase they own everything. Of what's left Cuse isn't worthy in women's bball so the ACCN is going to show ND, LVille, Duke, UNC non national games as they please. Cuse lax will surely get play. They don't play baseball. I have no clue if they play softball and if so I doubt they get time as a small brand. How about soccer? No clue.

UNC is going to be a network monster. UVA is a network monster. You need to be top at several other sports and have the brand/base that cares about it. Cuse may live in a state wi a large population, but they don't care. If they did you would have a stadium full or a larger stadium on par with other institutions your size in the college football world. There's a reason you get lumped together with the schools you do. My 2 cents. You can't be playing big time college football and basketball for so long and have just this to show for it. It's like a missed opportunity of epic levels or the answer is simple, the market/base isn't what people say it is in update NY. Schools like UCF and UConn have been playing football for 10 years and have gotten 40k in seats pretty quickly. What happens if they had 30 years to build that base? Cuse is what it is. Should have gone SUNY last decade when offered.

Let me put it this way. When Syracuse joined the ACC, the ACC immediately was able to get a deal with MSG Network and the YES Network. The Acc never had any deals with those 2 networks before. The Syracuse brand is a much more powerful brand than you give it credit for.

Being a friar I remember the YES did the deal and also part of it was getting a small amount of big east bball games as well. They were desperate looking for live content. But the YESN was already on basic. That is simply the ACC getting into the neighborhood, someone has to carry product and SNY was UConn first. The YES didn't use Cuse to get on basic cable in a area they couldn't before hand. They were just looking for content. The rate didn't change. It's just how the ACC operates locally becuase they don't have a actual tv channel. In the Boston area the ACC has a deal or atleast did years ago with NESN. Same thing.

Also, MSG has PAC and B12 contracts also. Those networks are just desperate for live content. They are pro sport focused for games so offseason and off peak times need programming. So congrats, Washington State got on MSG without a ACC invite but it took Cuse who is in the same state as MSG a invite to the ACC to get noticed. How's that? My point isn't to be a di ck. it's to simply show you why people laugh when Cuse and ACC fans pump chest. There's a reason...

(04-20-2015 08:09 PM)Hokie Mark Wrote:  So here are the choices:

A) expand to 8-team playoff, which makes my conference race bigger but my fans might care less about other conferences.

B) stay at four because that helps boost tv ratings for another conference, on another network.

Hmmm...

If you chose "A", you are correct!

People already care about their own conference races. The trick is figuring out how to get them to care about any action in other parts of the country (which means people in others parts of the country caring about your races as well).

Beyond that, A) still has people caring less about your own conference race imo. The bigger a playoff gets, the more importance it takes at the expense of the conference titles. Conference championships still meaning something in football, but they are already diminished somewhat in the 4 team era. You go up to 8, that's another step away.

(04-20-2015 08:19 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 08:12 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:59 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:20 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 06:52 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  1- it's funny to watch ACC fans talk so much noise 24/7 and then every once in a while a sobering article or thread appears where the truth is talked about. The network is a unicorn and the league is weak. You can't have multiple schools at the bottom of your league that both stink on the field and in fan base/brand size. You can have one school like that or several with one of those issues. But not a combo of both for prolonged periods of time. Wake, BC, Cuse are never going to help the league with a network or a playoff invite. Even in good years on the field the base/brand are not enough. It's that simple.

2- when the CFP expands, it won't. It will actually be the power 4 conferences(b12 or ACC lives...) who decide that the berth to that should be settled by there conference ship game.

So imagine this. In order to be eligible for the CFP you need to have at least 16 schools in your conference and can have as many as 20. Pods are a internet unicorn but large geographic divisions are a winner. Each division winner gets a birth to its conference ship game. Winner goes to the CFP. So now, every regular season conference game means something to get that bid. OOC means less towards rankings but more towards how the ultimate winner of each conference getting seeded 1-4 for the CFP.

So you dont think that Syracuse, who absolutely dominates Upstate NY for College fb and bb, will not be able to help an Acc Network in NYS? There are at least 7 million sets of eyeballs in Upstate NY, and Syracuse by far is the favorite team, and has a good following in NYC. And since you are grouping SU with small privates, you should know that Syracuse is a very large private university that is as large or larger than some state schools and flagships, and is twice as large as BC and Wake, put together.

Syracuse is not a state school, but with the fans and media attention it gets in NYS, it may as well be. The state wants SU to continue to be an economic driver, which is why it was willing to give the university $250 million to build a new Dome. Most private schools dont receive this kind of support from its State.

I think Cuse definetly does carry update NY. The problem is this. The other power conferences network wise are going to show hockey, baseball, soccer and some lax it seems. Those will be the primary fillers. Cuse bball is a top 15 all time program and while the next couple years will be a bit ruff they are still what they are. When Cuse has a big bball game it's going to get ESPN or some type of national channel. It's a high tier game. So that doesn't help the network. Cuse doesn't play baseball or hockey. So all Cuse brings to a network is the bottom half of its home schedule of basketball games. It's women's basketball as far as I know isn't a major but I could be wrong? I think only a few are viewer gains like ND, UConn and Stanford.

Yes I realize the ACC doesn't have hockey but the point is where is the content to buy becuase you want to watch it?
It lacks content. And Cuse lacks more than other schools.

So upstate NY is going to buy the mythical ACCNetwork to watch 5-10 games vs non top teams mostly and some of those will be home games people will attend vs tv watch?

I don't see it. Cuse gets 30k for basketball games and only 40k for football. How is it you don't get 70k for football with such a huge number population wise to draw from? Yes I know your stadium is like 50k size wise. Seriously though. Do you come even close to really carrying that population?

Here is what I think is a fair example.

The B1G is going to show double digit live football games in the fall on the B1GN. They are going to show a mix of high and low quality bball all season. They are going to show live soccer games of mixed quality, live top ranked volley ball games, live quality hockey, live women's bball with mixed quality, live lax, live baseball and live softball.

What is the ACCN going to show? Minus volley ball and hockey the same let's say? ESPN is going to cherry pick bball games every week as they please becuase they own everything. Of what's left Cuse isn't worthy in women's bball so the ACCN is going to show ND, LVille, Duke, UNC non national games as they please. Cuse lax will surely get play. They don't play baseball. I have no clue if they play softball and if so I doubt they get time as a small brand. How about soccer? No clue.

UNC is going to be a network monster. UVA is a network monster. You need to be top at several other sports and have the brand/base that cares about it. Cuse may live in a state wi a large population, but they don't care. If they did you would have a stadium full or a larger stadium on par with other institutions your size in the college football world. There's a reason you get lumped together with the schools you do. My 2 cents. You can't be playing big time college football and basketball for so long and have just this to show for it. It's like a missed opportunity of epic levels or the answer is simple, the market/base isn't what people say it is in update NY. Schools like UCF and UConn have been playing football for 10 years and have gotten 40k in seats pretty quickly. What happens if they had 30 years to build that base? Cuse is what it is. Should have gone SUNY last decade when offered.

Let me put it this way. When Syracuse joined the ACC, the ACC immediately was able to get a deal with MSG Network and the YES Network. The Acc never had any deals with those 2 networks before. The Syracuse brand is a much more powerful brand than you give it credit for.

Being a friar I remember the YES did the deal and also part of it was getting a small amount of big east bball games as well. They were desperate looking for live content. But the YESN was already on basic. That is simply the ACC getting into the neighborhood, someone has to carry product and SNY was UConn first. The YES didn't use Cuse to get on basic cable in a area they couldn't before hand. They were just looking for content. The rate didn't change. It's just how the ACC operates locally becuase they don't have a actual tv channel. In the Boston area the ACC has a deal or atleast did years ago with NESN. Same thing.

Also, MSG has PAC and B12 contracts also. Those networks are just desperate for live content. They are pro sport focused for games so offseason and off peak times need programming. So congrats, Washington State got on MSG without a ACC invite but it took Cuse who is in the same state as MSG a invite to the ACC to get noticed. How's that? My point isn't to be a di ck. it's to simply show you why people laugh when Cuse and ACC fans pump chest. There's a reason...

None of that matters. What matters is that the Acc got a deal with those networks right after SU joined. You can rationalize as much as you want, but that doesnt change the fact that it happened. Nobodys pumping any chests. Just showing you how you are wrong about SU. You know when a Uconn fan tells you you are wrong in your negativity about Cuse, that you are TRULY WRONG!

(04-20-2015 08:30 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 08:19 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 08:12 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:59 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:20 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  So you dont think that Syracuse, who absolutely dominates Upstate NY for College fb and bb, will not be able to help an Acc Network in NYS? There are at least 7 million sets of eyeballs in Upstate NY, and Syracuse by far is the favorite team, and has a good following in NYC. And since you are grouping SU with small privates, you should know that Syracuse is a very large private university that is as large or larger than some state schools and flagships, and is twice as large as BC and Wake, put together.

Syracuse is not a state school, but with the fans and media attention it gets in NYS, it may as well be. The state wants SU to continue to be an economic driver, which is why it was willing to give the university $250 million to build a new Dome. Most private schools dont receive this kind of support from its State.

I think Cuse definetly does carry update NY. The problem is this. The other power conferences network wise are going to show hockey, baseball, soccer and some lax it seems. Those will be the primary fillers. Cuse bball is a top 15 all time program and while the next couple years will be a bit ruff they are still what they are. When Cuse has a big bball game it's going to get ESPN or some type of national channel. It's a high tier game. So that doesn't help the network. Cuse doesn't play baseball or hockey. So all Cuse brings to a network is the bottom half of its home schedule of basketball games. It's women's basketball as far as I know isn't a major but I could be wrong? I think only a few are viewer gains like ND, UConn and Stanford.

Yes I realize the ACC doesn't have hockey but the point is where is the content to buy becuase you want to watch it?
It lacks content. And Cuse lacks more than other schools.

So upstate NY is going to buy the mythical ACCNetwork to watch 5-10 games vs non top teams mostly and some of those will be home games people will attend vs tv watch?

I don't see it. Cuse gets 30k for basketball games and only 40k for football. How is it you don't get 70k for football with such a huge number population wise to draw from? Yes I know your stadium is like 50k size wise. Seriously though. Do you come even close to really carrying that population?

Here is what I think is a fair example.

The B1G is going to show double digit live football games in the fall on the B1GN. They are going to show a mix of high and low quality bball all season. They are going to show live soccer games of mixed quality, live top ranked volley ball games, live quality hockey, live women's bball with mixed quality, live lax, live baseball and live softball.

What is the ACCN going to show? Minus volley ball and hockey the same let's say? ESPN is going to cherry pick bball games every week as they please becuase they own everything. Of what's left Cuse isn't worthy in women's bball so the ACCN is going to show ND, LVille, Duke, UNC non national games as they please. Cuse lax will surely get play. They don't play baseball. I have no clue if they play softball and if so I doubt they get time as a small brand. How about soccer? No clue.

UNC is going to be a network monster. UVA is a network monster. You need to be top at several other sports and have the brand/base that cares about it. Cuse may live in a state wi a large population, but they don't care. If they did you would have a stadium full or a larger stadium on par with other institutions your size in the college football world. There's a reason you get lumped together with the schools you do. My 2 cents. You can't be playing big time college football and basketball for so long and have just this to show for it. It's like a missed opportunity of epic levels or the answer is simple, the market/base isn't what people say it is in update NY. Schools like UCF and UConn have been playing football for 10 years and have gotten 40k in seats pretty quickly. What happens if they had 30 years to build that base? Cuse is what it is. Should have gone SUNY last decade when offered.

Let me put it this way. When Syracuse joined the ACC, the ACC immediately was able to get a deal with MSG Network and the YES Network. The Acc never had any deals with those 2 networks before. The Syracuse brand is a much more powerful brand than you give it credit for.

Being a friar I remember the YES did the deal and also part of it was getting a small amount of big east bball games as well. They were desperate looking for live content. But the YESN was already on basic. That is simply the ACC getting into the neighborhood, someone has to carry product and SNY was UConn first. The YES didn't use Cuse to get on basic cable in a area they couldn't before hand. They were just looking for content. The rate didn't change. It's just how the ACC operates locally becuase they don't have a actual tv channel. In the Boston area the ACC has a deal or atleast did years ago with NESN. Same thing.

Also, MSG has PAC and B12 contracts also. Those networks are just desperate for live content. They are pro sport focused for games so offseason and off peak times need programming. So congrats, Washington State got on MSG without a ACC invite but it took Cuse who is in the same state as MSG a invite to the ACC to get noticed. How's that? My point isn't to be a di ck. it's to simply show you why people laugh when Cuse and ACC fans pump chest. There's a reason...

None of that matters. What matters is that the Acc got a deal with those networks right after SU joined. You can rationalize as much as you want, but that doesnt change the fact that it happened. Nobodys pumping any chests. Just showing you how you are wrong about SU. You know when a Uconn fan tells you you are wrong in your negativity about Cuse, that you are TRULY WRONG!

I don't think you understand how TV works. The ACC did a deal with WTAE which is a Pitt TV channel once they moved to the ACC also. The ACC was simply getting games on locally. Otherwise, besides national ESPN games Pitt would not have been on TV. Same thing. This isn't hard. But I get that you don't understand. The only Cuse grads that understand TV imediately go to Work for ESPN so that they can rig the industry to keep Cuse and it's never grown to levels it should have fan base.

They come off again as mostly whiny uninformed gas bags.
FSU wasn't left out and weren't as good as they were in 2013.
And they didn't exactly make a case by getting stomped this year.
Their revenue concerns have some merit, but its not only them falling behind.

(04-20-2015 08:00 PM)ohio1317 Wrote:  Imagine you have #2 USC playing #10 Oregon in October. It's a big game still sure and could have play off implications. It does not however have anywhere near the same meaning as the two will likely be meeting in the conference championship anyway and a bid will still be on the line then.

Disagree. The three at-large spots in the playoff will go to the three best teams apart from the five champs, so that game absolutely matters, as would (to use 2015 schedule examples) Oregon vs. Michigan State and USC vs. Notre Dame, because a team is probably out of playoff consideration if they don't win their conference AND they don't win those key non-con games. (And, of course, the loser of that USC-Oregon game is also in danger of losing their division because they have no margin for error in the division after dropping a conference game.)

I will go through and read the posts but first I will say what I know.

This is all just part of the dog and pony of setting the public discourse for expansion of the playoff. They framed it for you. It is the 8 team Party vs the 4 team Party. Guess what the theme of this show is?

Compromise.

I don't need to spell out what the obvious compromise is.

In the case of the ACC Network? He is just setting the tone for when the true statement is finally made.

(04-20-2015 08:43 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 08:30 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 08:19 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 08:12 PM)cuseroc Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 07:59 PM)BE4neva Wrote:  I think Cuse definetly does carry update NY. The problem is this. The other power conferences network wise are going to show hockey, baseball, soccer and some lax it seems. Those will be the primary fillers. Cuse bball is a top 15 all time program and while the next couple years will be a bit ruff they are still what they are. When Cuse has a big bball game it's going to get ESPN or some type of national channel. It's a high tier game. So that doesn't help the network. Cuse doesn't play baseball or hockey. So all Cuse brings to a network is the bottom half of its home schedule of basketball games. It's women's basketball as far as I know isn't a major but I could be wrong? I think only a few are viewer gains like ND, UConn and Stanford.

Yes I realize the ACC doesn't have hockey but the point is where is the content to buy becuase you want to watch it?
It lacks content. And Cuse lacks more than other schools.

So upstate NY is going to buy the mythical ACCNetwork to watch 5-10 games vs non top teams mostly and some of those will be home games people will attend vs tv watch?

I don't see it. Cuse gets 30k for basketball games and only 40k for football. How is it you don't get 70k for football with such a huge number population wise to draw from? Yes I know your stadium is like 50k size wise. Seriously though. Do you come even close to really carrying that population?

Here is what I think is a fair example.

The B1G is going to show double digit live football games in the fall on the B1GN. They are going to show a mix of high and low quality bball all season. They are going to show live soccer games of mixed quality, live top ranked volley ball games, live quality hockey, live women's bball with mixed quality, live lax, live baseball and live softball.

What is the ACCN going to show? Minus volley ball and hockey the same let's say? ESPN is going to cherry pick bball games every week as they please becuase they own everything. Of what's left Cuse isn't worthy in women's bball so the ACCN is going to show ND, LVille, Duke, UNC non national games as they please. Cuse lax will surely get play. They don't play baseball. I have no clue if they play softball and if so I doubt they get time as a small brand. How about soccer? No clue.

UNC is going to be a network monster. UVA is a network monster. You need to be top at several other sports and have the brand/base that cares about it. Cuse may live in a state wi a large population, but they don't care. If they did you would have a stadium full or a larger stadium on par with other institutions your size in the college football world. There's a reason you get lumped together with the schools you do. My 2 cents. You can't be playing big time college football and basketball for so long and have just this to show for it. It's like a missed opportunity of epic levels or the answer is simple, the market/base isn't what people say it is in update NY. Schools like UCF and UConn have been playing football for 10 years and have gotten 40k in seats pretty quickly. What happens if they had 30 years to build that base? Cuse is what it is. Should have gone SUNY last decade when offered.

Let me put it this way. When Syracuse joined the ACC, the ACC immediately was able to get a deal with MSG Network and the YES Network. The Acc never had any deals with those 2 networks before. The Syracuse brand is a much more powerful brand than you give it credit for.

Being a friar I remember the YES did the deal and also part of it was getting a small amount of big east bball games as well. They were desperate looking for live content. But the YESN was already on basic. That is simply the ACC getting into the neighborhood, someone has to carry product and SNY was UConn first. The YES didn't use Cuse to get on basic cable in a area they couldn't before hand. They were just looking for content. The rate didn't change. It's just how the ACC operates locally becuase they don't have a actual tv channel. In the Boston area the ACC has a deal or atleast did years ago with NESN. Same thing.

Also, MSG has PAC and B12 contracts also. Those networks are just desperate for live content. They are pro sport focused for games so offseason and off peak times need programming. So congrats, Washington State got on MSG without a ACC invite but it took Cuse who is in the same state as MSG a invite to the ACC to get noticed. How's that? My point isn't to be a di ck. it's to simply show you why people laugh when Cuse and ACC fans pump chest. There's a reason...

None of that matters. What matters is that the Acc got a deal with those networks right after SU joined. You can rationalize as much as you want, but that doesnt change the fact that it happened. Nobodys pumping any chests. Just showing you how you are wrong about SU. You know when a Uconn fan tells you you are wrong in your negativity about Cuse, that you are TRULY WRONG!

I don't think you understand how TV works. The ACC did a deal with WTAE which is a Pitt TV channel once they moved to the ACC also. The ACC was simply getting games on locally. Otherwise, besides national ESPN games Pitt would not have been on TV. Same thing. This isn't hard. But I get that you don't understand. The only Cuse grads that understand TV imediately go to Work for ESPN so that they can rig the industry to keep Cuse and it's never grown to levels it should have fan base.

Look, Your a Providence fan. I can understand why you hate/envy SU.
But this is what you said:

"Wake, BC, Cuse are never going to help the league with a network or a playoff invite."


As far as tv goes, I once had a Time Warner advertising rep tell me that when SU games are on it gets the highest ratings on tv during that time slot from Albany to Buffalo. Granted that was about 10 years ago, but I dont think much has changed. Regarding MSG and YES, it is what it is.

Many SU regional games that were on Time Warner Sports and SNY, when SU was in the BE are now shared between YES and MSG. The ACC doesnt have a deal with Time Warner or SNY. But they sure were able to quickly get a deal with MSG and YES, so that SU fans could still see their team play. This was no coincidence. MSG and YES didnt just suddenly need programming and decided to go with the ACC. This is an actual deal to show Acc games every week. Not every once in a while like some other teams.

I and others have given you reasons as to why you were wrong. Its ok to admit that you didnt know that SU was such a large private school. Its OK. Just admit you were dead wrong and move on. Now Im done with you and your hate for the Cuse.

So the PAC commissioner says no CFP expansion unless auto bid are part and now ACC wants auto bids. Sounds like the beginning of the momentum to 8. Not related to money, but guaranteed spot in the playoffs.

(04-20-2015 09:22 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  So the PAC commissioner says no CFP expansion unless auto bid are part and now ACC wants auto bids. Sounds like the beginning of the momentum to 8. Not related to money, but guaranteed spot in the playoffs.

Yep. It didn't take long. Interesting that, despite the snub, the Big 12 is not the one leading the charge on this.

(04-20-2015 09:30 PM)robertfoshizzle Wrote:  

(04-20-2015 09:22 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  So the PAC commissioner says no CFP expansion unless auto bid are part and now ACC wants auto bids. Sounds like the beginning of the momentum to 8. Not related to money, but guaranteed spot in the playoffs.

Yep. It didn't take long. Interesting that, despite the snub, the Big 12 is not the one leading the charge on this.

It seems kind of gauche when they say it. I think everyone knows they'd agree, "snub" or not. (Ohio State ultimately proved they deserved the TCU/Baylor spot).

(04-20-2015 09:22 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  So the PAC commissioner says no CFP expansion unless auto bid are part and now ACC wants auto bids. Sounds like the beginning of the momentum to 8. Not related to money, but guaranteed spot in the playoffs.

Yup...a couple more years it will be 8...Deregulation coming with Conferences...5 Automatic Bids and 3 At Large to "satisfy the G5" even though they have no shot at a playoff but more importantly would not leave a undefeated ND out of the Playoffs and would allow for a 2nd SEC, B1G, ACC, Big XII or Pac 12 school...

With the B1G, PAC, ACC and SEC all having championship games you pretty much already have an 8-10 team playoff in place with a weak conference champ running the risk of getting bumped for a strong at-large.

If there was some consolidation to a G4/P4 and then creating a 8 CFP bowl system

B1G (Rose)
PAC (Rose)
ACC (Orange)
SEC (Orange)

MWC (Fiesta)
AAC (Citrus)
CUSA (Sugar)
MAC (Peach)

Cotton/Holiday at-larges

If there was a Top 4 team/best 4 playoff and every conference had a contract with one of the major bowls that would help from a fairness perspective with the G4 champ getting a crack at the P4 #2/#3 school with its champ.