The unofficial online home for fans of the Old Dominion University Monarchs. Part of Collegiate Sports Nation (CSN).

(04-15-2015 08:23 PM)BigBlueMonarch Wrote:  

(04-15-2015 03:46 PM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(04-15-2015 03:38 PM)HeadsetGuy Wrote:  the problem in JMU to the C-USA is of course JMU itself (and its own seven purple vices: hubris, delusion, apathy, confusion, grandeur, temerity, forethought)...

Better than helping build the Falwell's wealth, who as mentioned has taken advantage of students for years. Look into what they and the other massive online for profit institutions have done to take advantage of our veterans. If you're not disgusted after by the mere mention of their name, I will be shocked.

Liberty University is not a for profit institution. However, its online division although non-profit functions much like a fpr profit institution like the University of Phoenix. There are several school that operate in the same manner as Liberty that are non-profit, Southern New Hampshire, Grand Canyon University, and even ODU's distance learning programs.

Please don't ever compare ODU to Liberty again. Liberty is a private non-profit solely because of their religious connection and the IRS' unwillingness to go after religious groups (See: Scientology). Further, their online program and ODUs don't operate in the same manner. Are the classes delivered largely online? Yes but other than being based in Virginia, that's where the similarities end. Liberty doesn't have the same requirements for entry, doesn't embrace browser-blockers and doesn't require proctored exams. ODU on the other hand does. There is a reason why groups representing military veterans want to block Liberty's ability to accept the GI Bill and federal student loans. And that fight has nothing to do with their religious values, but their academics and job placement ability.

(04-15-2015 08:59 PM)djnva Wrote:  

(04-15-2015 04:11 PM)ODUalum78 Wrote:  3. And probably the most relevant point, Liberty has almost limitless resources. Apparently substantially more than Notre Dame and BYU. Indeed "BYU/Notre Dame on crack".

No.

Notre Dame endowment: $10 billion
Libery endowment: $100 million.

That's 1% the size of ND's.

For the record, ODU's endowment is over $200 million.

ND had $96 million in football revenue during the last fiscal year I could find. They have a "value" of nearly $1 billion.

They were able to issue a $400 million public bond last year and they actually get a AAA rating from Moody's.

Yes.

I am aware of the endowments, LU's advantage is a huge cash flow from donations. In order to maintain their non profit status they are adding programs, expanding online capabilities, and building brick and mortar at an extraordinary rate. It is not about endowment, but instead disposable "income".

This is probably the wrong place for this, so feel free to take it down. I am not a religious person at all, agnostic would probably be the best description, but I find the vitriol toward an institution because some don't agree with their religious or political stance to be down right disturbing, and the exclusion of them from athletic conferences because they don't cow to the mainstream bent of institutions of "higher learning" to be an embarrassment for our education system. Some people act as if it is some sort of cult, when in reality it is an institution that reflects the values of millions of Americans going back as far as this country's existence. At what point did religious freedom, and the respect for each to worship as he pleases become a part of America's past.

And no i don't agree with Falwell's beliefs, and I personally would not be comfortable attending the school, but that is what is great about America, we allow everyone to have a voice, and we allow people make their own choices.

End rant.

(04-15-2015 10:18 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  This is probably the wrong place for this, so feel free to take it down. I am not a religious person at all, agnostic would probably be the best description, but I find the vitriol toward an institution because some don't agree with their religious or political stance to be down right disturbing, and the exclusion of them from athletic conferences because they don't cow to the mainstream bent of institutions of "higher learning" to be an embarrassment for our education system. Some people act as if it is some sort of cult, when in reality it is an institution that reflects the values of millions of Americans going back as far as this country's existence. At what point did religious freedom, and the respect for each to worship as he pleases become a part of America's past.

And no i don't agree with Falwell's beliefs, and I personally would not be comfortable attending the school, but that is what is great about America, we allow everyone to have a voice, and we allow people make their own choices.

End rant.

I am not particularly religious at all, so add me to the list of those 100% in agreement with the above.

I also agree with this. I am certainly to no religious fundamentalist, but I fail to understand the vitriol against a private university that happens to lean right. Lord knows, there are many more than lean (or fall) left.

Tolerance works in both directions or not at all.

I have no more affinity for Liberty than any other institution. But I also have no more disdain for Liberty than any other institution, either. Fair and balanced.

I'm not particularly religious, but I think there are better programs to choose from. Can we also tolerate my point of view? How about this - everybody who participates in this thread gets a medal! That should satisfy everyone's PC slant.

I can see the post game interviews now.

Reporter: "Coach tell us about the victory"

Coach: "First of all I want to thank Jesus Christ for dying for our sins and for helping us defeat our opponent tonight ............"

I'll give them credit for playing a full 60 minutes against UNC last season, lol but CUSA will choose a current FBS program or stay at 13.

I'm still mad that Chik-fil-A is closed on Sundays!

Liberty will pop along with the student loan bubble. New student loan reforms have cut University of Phoenix enrollment by almost 50%, and with Liberty's online program receiving some of the highest level of federal money in the country, it will certainly catch the eye of politicians in due time. I entirely support online education, but there is absolutely nothing in common between ODU and this school in Lynchburg particularity in quality and research.

I would want back in the CAA before being in an association with Liberty, and I strongly believe other CUSA presidents would think likewise before considering them.

After 7 pages of 4th FBS team discussion in Virginia, there is one clearly evident point that has emerged. These discussions, where Liberty has been the main school discussed, are at a much higher level, with pros and cons being expressed, than any conversation on the SBC board.

I get the positions of most everyone here and agree with most all said, excluding the extreme, below-the-belt, off the cuff comments. Many valid points have been made for and against Liberty's inclusion.

The "BYU/Notre Dame on crack" line is funny and in some ways true. True in that LU will be the one school on any programs schedule that is a must NOT LOSE game. The perception will be if one wins, "well it was just Liberty". Now when a teams loses, well that is how rivalries are nurtured. Combine that with the disdain here some have expressed and you actually have a game, home or away, that will generate some interest.

Liberty will be FBS, either in the SBC, C-USA, or as an indy. The FCOA is likely a statement to the NCAA that LU meets all the requirements and more, and several existing FBS schools, especially MAC ones, don't with attendance minimums.

App St or JMU and maybe one of the GA teams would be ahead of LU as a C-USA member. But the trump card for LU is that if no invite comes, the indy challenge will. And they will win. So get ready to have 5 not 4 FBS teams in VA if JMU can finally use both oars at the same time. I hope JMU gets an invite. App St, JMU, ODU and LU would be great, fun games to attend, home and away.

One factor not stated as yet, LU has the ultimate support and unity of the prez and AD. That goes a long way towards achieving their goal. Ask JMU about that one. My guess, if LU gets no invite within 24 months, they will be indy as the NCAA would cower at the thought of defending a rule where a school that meets ALL the requirements, but receives no invite, is being denied membership while others skip along not meeting the requirements. Add in the FCOA and Liberty's challenge would be strong.

As I stated earlier, I am religious and still don't want them in CUSA. No vitriol, just don't want to start expanding CUSA with Big South schools.

New Times ^^^ - What is the Indy challenge to which you refer? It is my understanding that only FCS teams which are transitioning to FBS, or existing FBS teams, such as UMASS, which no longer have a conference are permitted to play as Independents. Is LU planning to challenge that, and if so on what grounds?

I am religious and don't have anything against that Falwell guy but just because they offer online courses and ODU does some doesn't mean we are like minded institutions and I personally do not want them in CUSA and really don't mind having 4/5 FBS schools in VA and it will eventually work or not, each school has its own draw and please please stop comparing ODU to liberty that is all.

(04-15-2015 10:18 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  This is probably the wrong place for this, so feel free to take it down. I am not a religious person at all, agnostic would probably be the best description, but I find the vitriol toward an institution because some don't agree with their religious or political stance to be down right disturbing, and the exclusion of them from athletic conferences because they don't cow to the mainstream bent of institutions of "higher learning" to be an embarrassment for our education system. Some people act as if it is some sort of cult, when in reality it is an institution that reflects the values of millions of Americans going back as far as this country's existence. At what point did religious freedom, and the respect for each to worship as he pleases become a part of America's past.

And no i don't agree with Falwell's beliefs, and I personally would not be comfortable attending the school, but that is what is great about America, we allow everyone to have a voice, and we allow people make their own choices.

End rant.

FWIW I didn't say anything about their political views. I could care care less that they are religious. I have only attacked their online program and their predatorial nature of vets and their GI Bills.

(04-16-2015 06:31 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(04-15-2015 10:18 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  This is probably the wrong place for this, so feel free to take it down. I am not a religious person at all, agnostic would probably be the best description, but I find the vitriol toward an institution because some don't agree with their religious or political stance to be down right disturbing, and the exclusion of them from athletic conferences because they don't cow to the mainstream bent of institutions of "higher learning" to be an embarrassment for our education system. Some people act as if it is some sort of cult, when in reality it is an institution that reflects the values of millions of Americans going back as far as this country's existence. At what point did religious freedom, and the respect for each to worship as he pleases become a part of America's past.

And no i don't agree with Falwell's beliefs, and I personally would not be comfortable attending the school, but that is what is great about America, we allow everyone to have a voice, and we allow people make their own choices.

End rant.

FWIW I didn't say anything about their political views. I could care care less that they are religious. I have only attacked their online program and their predatorial nature of vets and their GI Bills.

Also they are partly or mostly exempted from tax why? Just because of a religious connection. Isn't that morally wrong? I am all for everyone having their opinions and getting to what they wanted to do but come on you have got to be subjected same rules as others if you want that equality to survive. They can shove their in disposable income up their you know what but if ODU is paying taxes they have to do too.

(04-16-2015 06:20 AM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  New Times ^^^ - What is the Indy challenge to which you refer? It is my understanding that only FCS teams which are transitioning to FBS, or existing FBS teams, such as UMASS, which no longer have a conference are permitted to play as Independents. Is LU planning to challenge that, and if so on what grounds?

This is an assumption on my part. It is based on the positioning that LU has taken in the past few years in seeking FBS. So far, unable to collect enough college prez to agree in the SBC. I have followed the SBC quest closer than C-USA believing initially the path would be easier there.

As one how has followed LU sports for many years, (notice I say sports, I don't agree or support many of the past actions, missteps or decisions of the school, I am a sports fan), there is an intense desire to achieve FBS.

If LU believes the door is closed, (no MAC, SBC, C-USA) invites, it's safe to say that LU will challenge the existing indy rules. One can expect many current regs will also be challenged so one cannot hand their hat on what is current to be uncontested.

This would only be a last resort action. Only when all other options are explored would this be a possibility. And if none exists, I'm betting that will be the last straw. And they will win indy and likely have rewritten many of the current rules and regs. Just a hunch. No inside info. But I bet I am right.

I said nice things about LU and think they have a high potential, but I dont want them in CUSA either. I am opposed to any expansion. We are already too large as a conference.

(04-15-2015 07:33 PM)paintedblue2 Wrote:  I also think C*USA will probably wait a while. I know it would not be a popular choice, but IMO Ga. St. might very well be at or near the top of any list C*USA may have. Given market size, geograpy, and the fact that unlike Liberty, and JMU they are already FBS.

I'm all for Georgia State. They seem to have basketball working (as long as Ron Hunter sticks around) and a football trip to Atlanta is is always fun. The Atlanta media market would be very hard to ignore for the folks at CUSA HQ.

(04-16-2015 06:45 AM)12thmonarch Wrote:  

(04-16-2015 06:31 AM)ODUDrunkard13 Wrote:  

(04-15-2015 10:18 PM)Monarchblue Wrote:  This is probably the wrong place for this, so feel free to take it down. I am not a religious person at all, agnostic would probably be the best description, but I find the vitriol toward an institution because some don't agree with their religious or political stance to be down right disturbing, and the exclusion of them from athletic conferences because they don't cow to the mainstream bent of institutions of "higher learning" to be an embarrassment for our education system. Some people act as if it is some sort of cult, when in reality it is an institution that reflects the values of millions of Americans going back as far as this country's existence. At what point did religious freedom, and the respect for each to worship as he pleases become a part of America's past.

And no i don't agree with Falwell's beliefs, and I personally would not be comfortable attending the school, but that is what is great about America, we allow everyone to have a voice, and we allow people make their own choices.

End rant.

FWIW I didn't say anything about their political views. I could care care less that they are religious. I have only attacked their online program and their predatorial nature of vets and their GI Bills.

Also they are partly or mostly exempted from tax why? Just because of a religious connection. Isn't that morally wrong? I am all for everyone having their opinions and getting to what they wanted to do but come on you have got to be subjected same rules as others if you want that equality to survive. They can shove their in disposable income up their you know what but if ODU is paying taxes they have to do too.

I dont think ODU pays taxes either. It's a non-profit state supported institution. Most schools are tax exempt except the for-profits I believe.

I was pleased with App State too. Liberty can go to the Sun Belt and they can give us App State or Georgia Southern.

I did not know App State beat #5 Michigan in 2007!