(04-08-2015 12:42 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:31 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I can think of one(maybe not as terrible)....and he was responsible for it.

I don't think you actually believe the Bush was better than Obama narrative.

I do - and it's not really even close. Obama is without doubt, the worst president in my lifetime, and that includes Carter and Nixon.

Obama is the absolute king of leading from behind. If he were in the military during WWII as an officer, he would be one of those that met an untimely end at the hands of those he was supposed to be leading. They would have offed him.

That statement can't be objectively defended using actual data. All those folksy sayings might pass muster among those who agree with your viewpoint, but they are not compelling evidence for someone who is concerned with the factual truth. Complain about Obama all you want, I mean that because he's not exactly the best president I've seen in action, but you're either being dishonest with your statement, or you're just ignorant of the facts.

(04-08-2015 11:22 AM)Redwingtom Wrote:  "It's, I can't think of a more terrible burden to leave the next president than what Obama is creating here." ~ Richard B. Cheney



I can't think. Yep...pretty much sums it up.

The honorable Dick Cheney is correct.

He just won't quit.

“I vacillate between the various theories I’ve heard, but you know, if you had somebody as president who wanted to take America down, who wanted to fundamentally weaken our position in the world and reduce our capacity to influence events, turn our back on our allies and encourage our adversaries, it would look exactly like what Barack Obama’s doing” ~ Richard B. Cheney

Someone get this delusional old man the definition of irony, STAT!

Does the old man not even realize that the proposed Iran deal is being negotiated with Britain, Russia, France, China and Germany?

(04-08-2015 01:48 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 12:42 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:31 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I can think of one(maybe not as terrible)....and he was responsible for it.

I don't think you actually believe the Bush was better than Obama narrative.

I do - and it's not really even close. Obama is without doubt, the worst president in my lifetime, and that includes Carter and Nixon.

Obama is the absolute king of leading from behind. If he were in the military during WWII as an officer, he would be one of those that met an untimely end at the hands of those he was supposed to be leading. They would have offed him.

That statement can't be objectively defended using actual data. All those folksy sayings might pass muster among those who agree with your viewpoint, but they are not compelling evidence for someone who is concerned with the factual truth. Complain about Obama all you want, I mean that because he's not exactly the best president I've seen in action, but you're either being dishonest with your statement, or you're just ignorant of the facts.

So we should hold you to facts to support your posts as well?

(04-08-2015 01:48 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 12:42 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:31 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I can think of one(maybe not as terrible)....and he was responsible for it.

I don't think you actually believe the Bush was better than Obama narrative.

I do - and it's not really even close. Obama is without doubt, the worst president in my lifetime, and that includes Carter and Nixon.

Obama is the absolute king of leading from behind. If he were in the military during WWII as an officer, he would be one of those that met an untimely end at the hands of those he was supposed to be leading. They would have offed him.

That statement can't be objectively defended using actual data. All those folksy sayings might pass muster among those who agree with your viewpoint, but they are not compelling evidence for someone who is concerned with the factual truth. Complain about Obama all you want, I mean that because he's not exactly the best president I've seen in action, but you're either being dishonest with your statement, or you're just ignorant of the facts.

I haven't seen you present any facts to the contrary. Of course it's my opinion, I never pretended it wasn't my opinion. I'm not being dishonest and I'm not ignorant of any facts. IMO, Obama is the worst "leader" to hold the office in my lifetime.

Oh yeah, I forgot - you're 20 something - you know everything. Just ask and you'll let everyone know.

(04-08-2015 02:23 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  He just won't quit.

“I vacillate between the various theories I’ve heard, but you know, if you had somebody as president who wanted to take America down, who wanted to fundamentally weaken our position in the world and reduce our capacity to influence events, turn our back on our allies and encourage our adversaries, it would look exactly like what Barack Obama’s doing” ~ Richard B. Cheney

Someone get this delusional old man the definition of irony, STAT!

Does the old man not even realize that the proposed Iran deal is being negotiated with Britain, Russia, France, China and Germany?

He realizes it, but he thinks it should probably be just the US and Iran without any international support.

(04-08-2015 02:36 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:48 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 12:42 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:31 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I can think of one(maybe not as terrible)....and he was responsible for it.

I don't think you actually believe the Bush was better than Obama narrative.

I do - and it's not really even close. Obama is without doubt, the worst president in my lifetime, and that includes Carter and Nixon.

Obama is the absolute king of leading from behind. If he were in the military during WWII as an officer, he would be one of those that met an untimely end at the hands of those he was supposed to be leading. They would have offed him.

That statement can't be objectively defended using actual data. All those folksy sayings might pass muster among those who agree with your viewpoint, but they are not compelling evidence for someone who is concerned with the factual truth. Complain about Obama all you want, I mean that because he's not exactly the best president I've seen in action, but you're either being dishonest with your statement, or you're just ignorant of the facts.

I haven't seen you present any facts to the contrary. Of course it's my opinion, I never pretended it wasn't my opinion. I'm not being dishonest and I'm not ignorant of any facts. IMO, Obama is the worst "leader" to hold the office in my lifetime.

Oh yeah, I forgot - you're 20 something - you know everything. Just ask and you'll let everyone know.

He hasn't started another Gulf War or occupied another country.

(04-08-2015 02:36 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:48 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 12:42 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:31 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:27 AM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  I can think of one(maybe not as terrible)....and he was responsible for it.

I don't think you actually believe the Bush was better than Obama narrative.

I do - and it's not really even close. Obama is without doubt, the worst president in my lifetime, and that includes Carter and Nixon.

Obama is the absolute king of leading from behind. If he were in the military during WWII as an officer, he would be one of those that met an untimely end at the hands of those he was supposed to be leading. They would have offed him.

That statement can't be objectively defended using actual data. All those folksy sayings might pass muster among those who agree with your viewpoint, but they are not compelling evidence for someone who is concerned with the factual truth. Complain about Obama all you want, I mean that because he's not exactly the best president I've seen in action, but you're either being dishonest with your statement, or you're just ignorant of the facts.

I haven't seen you present any facts to the contrary. Of course it's my opinion, I never pretended it wasn't my opinion. I'm not being dishonest and I'm not ignorant of any facts. IMO, Obama is the worst "leader" to hold the office in my lifetime.

Oh yeah, I forgot - you're 20 something - you know everything. Just ask and you'll let everyone know.

In fairness, now you've changed your analysis to the "worst leader" from the "worst president".

Although there is no scorecard, I can say with 100% certainty that in the presidential history analysis books in the future that Obama will always be ahead of W on the ratings scale.

His accomplishments are so far ahead of W's it's not even funny.

Health Care
Economy
Iran Deal (should the cons in congress actually get on board)
Stock Market
and on and on.

W's claim is that he kept us safe after 3,000 died on 9/11. Nevermind that it cost another 4,000+ to achieve it.

Yes, Obama is far from perfect, but no objective analysis can rank W higher. It's just not there.

But make the case. I'd love to hear your rationale....

(04-08-2015 02:57 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 02:23 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  He just won't quit.

“I vacillate between the various theories I’ve heard, but you know, if you had somebody as president who wanted to take America down, who wanted to fundamentally weaken our position in the world and reduce our capacity to influence events, turn our back on our allies and encourage our adversaries, it would look exactly like what Barack Obama’s doing” ~ Richard B. Cheney

Someone get this delusional old man the definition of irony, STAT!

Does the old man not even realize that the proposed Iran deal is being negotiated with Britain, Russia, France, China and Germany?

He realizes it, but he thinks it should probably be just the US and Iran without any international support.

Perhaps. Although I think he feels that we should just bomb them.

(04-08-2015 01:44 PM)VA49er Wrote:  You can tell the O admin isn't very popular when supporters start to bring up Bush and Cheney again.

(04-08-2015 03:01 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 02:36 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:48 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 12:42 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:31 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't think you actually believe the Bush was better than Obama narrative.

I do - and it's not really even close. Obama is without doubt, the worst president in my lifetime, and that includes Carter and Nixon.

Obama is the absolute king of leading from behind. If he were in the military during WWII as an officer, he would be one of those that met an untimely end at the hands of those he was supposed to be leading. They would have offed him.

That statement can't be objectively defended using actual data. All those folksy sayings might pass muster among those who agree with your viewpoint, but they are not compelling evidence for someone who is concerned with the factual truth. Complain about Obama all you want, I mean that because he's not exactly the best president I've seen in action, but you're either being dishonest with your statement, or you're just ignorant of the facts.

I haven't seen you present any facts to the contrary. Of course it's my opinion, I never pretended it wasn't my opinion. I'm not being dishonest and I'm not ignorant of any facts. IMO, Obama is the worst "leader" to hold the office in my lifetime.

Oh yeah, I forgot - you're 20 something - you know everything. Just ask and you'll let everyone know.

He hasn't started another Gulf War or occupied another country.

Oh, good grief. Bless your heart.

I don't see the humor in how past administrations led us into wars that cost us american lives and untold sums of money. Call me old fashioned.

(04-08-2015 03:17 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't see the humor in how past administrations led us into wars that cost us american lives and untold sums of money. Call me old fashioned.

You are going to have to set a standard for how you justify which conflicts need to be fought and why first. Unless you're a pacifist.

(04-08-2015 03:04 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 02:57 PM)vandiver49 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 02:23 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  He just won't quit.

“I vacillate between the various theories I’ve heard, but you know, if you had somebody as president who wanted to take America down, who wanted to fundamentally weaken our position in the world and reduce our capacity to influence events, turn our back on our allies and encourage our adversaries, it would look exactly like what Barack Obama’s doing” ~ Richard B. Cheney

Someone get this delusional old man the definition of irony, STAT!

Does the old man not even realize that the proposed Iran deal is being negotiated with Britain, Russia, France, China and Germany?

He realizes it, but he thinks it should probably be just the US and Iran without any international support.

Perhaps. Although I think he feels that we should just bomb them.

I think Cheney feels that America should be occupying Iraq right now and that our presence in the region would have sufficiently checked Iran's nuclear aims.

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 02:36 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:48 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 12:42 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 11:31 AM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't think you actually believe the Bush was better than Obama narrative.

I do - and it's not really even close. Obama is without doubt, the worst president in my lifetime, and that includes Carter and Nixon.

Obama is the absolute king of leading from behind. If he were in the military during WWII as an officer, he would be one of those that met an untimely end at the hands of those he was supposed to be leading. They would have offed him.

That statement can't be objectively defended using actual data. All those folksy sayings might pass muster among those who agree with your viewpoint, but they are not compelling evidence for someone who is concerned with the factual truth. Complain about Obama all you want, I mean that because he's not exactly the best president I've seen in action, but you're either being dishonest with your statement, or you're just ignorant of the facts.

I haven't seen you present any facts to the contrary. Of course it's my opinion, I never pretended it wasn't my opinion. I'm not being dishonest and I'm not ignorant of any facts. IMO, Obama is the worst "leader" to hold the office in my lifetime.

Oh yeah, I forgot - you're 20 something - you know everything. Just ask and you'll let everyone know.

In fairness, now you've changed your analysis to the "worst leader" from the "worst president".

Although there is no scorecard, I can say with 100% certainty that in the presidential history analysis books in the future that Obama will always be ahead of W on the ratings scale.

His accomplishments are so far ahead of W's it's not even funny.

Health Care- will haunt this Country for years if not stopped in it's tracks early '16. Designed to fail is the only logical explanation for how and why this thing was put together the way it is.

Economy-Where to start. Pumped trillions of printed $$$'s into economy with no discernible benefit other than an artificially inflated stock market. Largest income gap in history, due in large part to this. Record # of people on foodstamps, more people out of workforce than ever, worst peace time recovery in the modern history of the United States, and more. Much more.

Iran Deal (should the cons in congress actually get on board)Which thankfully they won't. BUT, let's also keep in mind that there's a significant chance the dims in congress won't either...

Stock Market- one bright spot. If you own stocks. Fewer people do now than they have before, so no benefit. Whys that? They can't afford their day to day expenses as it is, or are just getting by.

and on and on. And not much of it good. I any way.

W's claim is that he kept us safe after 3,000 died on 9/11. Nevermind that it cost another 4,000+ to achieve it.

Yes, Obama is far from perfect, but no objective analysis can rank W higher. It's just not there.

But make the case. I'd love to hear your rationale....

^^^^^^^^
Worst president in my lifetime without question. Race relations were better 20++ years ago. Economy was better 20++ years ago. Social structure, confidence and optimism was better 20++ years ago. A large portion of the Middle east and Africa are under constant attack, and it promises to only get worse. Tens, hundreds, of thousands, if not millions have been slaughtered and a rudderless world stands idly by. There is no leadership to speak of, so the rabid animals run wild.

If by "better" you mean a world class place holder, then perhaps you are correct. Otherwise, aside from the Kobe beef dinners and lovely vacations, what has he accomplished that has been to the benefit of most Americans? Gay folk in the military? Illegal invaders flooding our borders with little to no fear of penalty?

Yea, I'm sure he's done some wonderful things, I'm sure his daughters could point to a few...

Awful. Just awful.

(04-08-2015 03:09 PM)gdunn Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:44 PM)VA49er Wrote:  You can tell the O admin isn't very popular when supporters start to bring up Bush and Cheney again.

Ummmm...dude...Cheney brought it up by writing a book and opening his yapper.

(04-08-2015 03:17 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't see the humor in how past administrations led us into wars that cost us american lives and untold sums of money. Call me old fashioned.

Including these "Administrators"?

Check out that list, might be a name or two you recognize. Unless of course it was before your time. So, tell you what, I'll highlight a few of them for you. Incidentally, this was about 60% of the dim senators at the time, who held 50 seats. Course, as we all know, they hold far fewer today. For good reason.

Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA) Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)

(04-08-2015 03:34 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:02 PM)Redwingtom Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 02:36 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 01:48 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 12:42 PM)Crebman Wrote:  I do - and it's not really even close. Obama is without doubt, the worst president in my lifetime, and that includes Carter and Nixon.

Obama is the absolute king of leading from behind. If he were in the military during WWII as an officer, he would be one of those that met an untimely end at the hands of those he was supposed to be leading. They would have offed him.

That statement can't be objectively defended using actual data. All those folksy sayings might pass muster among those who agree with your viewpoint, but they are not compelling evidence for someone who is concerned with the factual truth. Complain about Obama all you want, I mean that because he's not exactly the best president I've seen in action, but you're either being dishonest with your statement, or you're just ignorant of the facts.

I haven't seen you present any facts to the contrary. Of course it's my opinion, I never pretended it wasn't my opinion. I'm not being dishonest and I'm not ignorant of any facts. IMO, Obama is the worst "leader" to hold the office in my lifetime.

Oh yeah, I forgot - you're 20 something - you know everything. Just ask and you'll let everyone know.

In fairness, now you've changed your analysis to the "worst leader" from the "worst president".

Although there is no scorecard, I can say with 100% certainty that in the presidential history analysis books in the future that Obama will always be ahead of W on the ratings scale.

His accomplishments are so far ahead of W's it's not even funny.

Health Care- will haunt this Country for years if not stopped in it's tracks early '16. Designed to fail is the only logical explanation for how and why this thing was put together the way it is.

Economy-Where to start. Pumped trillions of printed $$$'s into economy with on discernible benefit other than an artificially inflated stock market. Largest income gap in history, due in large part to this. Record # of people on foodstamps, more people out of workforce than ever, worst peace time recovery in the modern history of the United States, and more. Much more.

Iran Deal (should the cons in congress actually get on board)Which thankfully they won't. BUT, let's also keep in mind that there's a significant chance the dims in congress won't either...

Stock Market- one bright spot. If you own stocks. Fewer people do now than they have before, so no benefit. Whys that? They can't afford their day to day expenses as it is, or are just getting by.

and on and on. And not much of it good. I any way.

W's claim is that he kept us safe after 3,000 died on 9/11. Nevermind that it cost another 4,000+ to achieve it.

Yes, Obama is far from perfect, but no objective analysis can rank W higher. It's just not there.

But make the case. I'd love to hear your rationale....

^^^^^^^^
Worst president in my lifetime without question. Race relations were better 20++ years ago. Economy was better 20++ years ago. Social structure, confidence and optimism was better 20++ years ago. A large portion of the Middle east and Africa are under constant attack, and it promises to only get worse. Tens, hundreds, of thousands, if not millions have been slaughtered and a rudderless world stands idly by. There is no leadership to speak of, so the rabid animals run wild.

If by "better" you mean a world class place holder, then perhaps you are correct. Otherwise, aside from the Kobe beef dinners and lovely vacations, what has he accomplished that has been to the benefit of most Americans? Gay folk in the military? Illegal invaders flooding our borders with little to no fear of penalty?

Yea, I'm sure he's done some wonderful things, I'm sure his daughters could point to a few...

Awful. Just awful.

I fail to see one point you made as to where W was better. When comparing the worst in our lifetimes, we only have to look at the worst. And that's W by every objective analysis. Make that case. Not a case compared back to Clinton and Reagan.

And regarding the stock market. Roughly 50 million Americans own 401k's. It matters a whole heck of a lot!

Worst in my life time as well.

(04-08-2015 03:44 PM)JMUDunk Wrote:  

(04-08-2015 03:17 PM)UCF08 Wrote:  I don't see the humor in how past administrations led us into wars that cost us american lives and untold sums of money. Call me old fashioned.

Including these "Administrators"?

Check out that list, might be a name or two you recognize. Unless of course it was before your time. So, tell you what, I'll highlight a few of them for you. Incidentally, this was about 60% of the dim senators at the time, who held 50 seats. Course, as we all know, they hold far fewer today. For good reason.

Bayh (D-IN)
Biden (D-DE)
Breaux (D-LA)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Carnahan (D-MO)
Carper (D-DE)
Cleland (D-GA)
Clinton (D-NY)
Daschle (D-SD)
Dodd (D-CT)
Dorgan (D-ND)
Edwards (D-NC)
Feinstein (D-CA)
Harkin (D-IA) Hollings (D-SC)
Johnson (D-SD)
Kerry (D-MA)
Kohl (D-WI)
Landrieu (D-LA)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Lincoln (D-AR)
Miller (D-GA)
Nelson (D-FL)
Nelson (D-NE)
Reid (D-NV)
Rockefeller (D-WV)
Schumer (D-NY)
Torricelli (D-NJ)

JMU, please don't be purposely obtuse to reality. Congress only provides the authorization. It's still the Presidents decision to start it. And W did.