(03-27-2015 03:02 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-27-2015 02:56 PM)DrBox Wrote:  Sure. Basically any Indy will count. Doesn't mean they'll do home and home schedule with them.

You realize how much G5 teams get for guarantee games, right?

A "P5" game should be worth double. $2 million per game x 6 away games would probably sound nice to UConn.

And you realize that this is U Conn, right, not one of those schools that has to hold bake sales to balance the budget?
Play 6 SEC games and go 1-5 and then get 3 home and homes to round out the schedule. They'd make a little money and never do a thing.
The idea that they want to play a single road warrior game, much less multiple, is dubious.
And you wont' see Army do it either.

(03-27-2015 03:07 PM)nert Wrote:  The SEC and ACC can "count" anyone as meeting their own "P5 opponent" requirement. It isn't the same as inviting them to join the P5.

The issue (with Navy and AirForce) would be counting a member of a conference - but not a whole list of other teams that play largely the same exact schedule.

Yes exactly, they're in a G5 conference.

Hence, they're G5.

Hence, they can't be counted as P5.

(03-27-2015 03:14 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  The second order SOS, as you call it, is important because that is why middling P5 teams still help your SOS more than a team like Boise, for example. Pure SOS is simply wins and losses. But computer rankings and other statistical models, the ones that affect committee decisions and to a lesser extent influence poll rankings, use opponents and opponent's opponents info. That is why playing a 4-8 P5 team can help you more than a 10-2 G5 team, and that is why the requirement was made. BYU, and really even army, tend to have more bigger names and P5 teams in their schedules than most G5 teams (there are exceptions, but in general).

Computers don't mean anything. Which is correct.

Sorry if I offend computer lovers, but I particularly think they have no business in college football (or other sports, for that matter) rankings. They should be for entertainment purposes only. Like message boards.

(03-27-2015 03:14 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  If they can get 2 million a game they should jump on it. I think you an I both know they cant. The reality is the purpose of the SEC requiring a P5 in OOC is to upgrade SOS. Most schools with any real interest in upgrading SOS wont be scheduling Army much (same would go for UConn).

The SEC and ACC are doing it as their answer to the PAC, B1G and XII going to nine conference games. It's a fair answer.

Although I don't agree that Army qualifies. But BYU certainly does, in my book. As would UConn.


And no, I don't think that BYU or UConn would get $2million for a guarantee game. Though it's not impossible. My point was addressing the person who said they wouldn't get any home-and-homes with ACC or SEC teams.

Well, if those teams need BYU or UConn to fill their requirement ... they'll have to pay up. The asking price is $2million. Or a home-and-home for free. Pick your poison.

That's how I'd play it, anyhow.

(03-27-2015 05:27 PM)Wedge Wrote:  Not going to get $2 million. There are data points for what the going rate would be. Here's one: Colorado is getting $1.45 million to play at Michigan in 2016.

BYU and Army are not going to get more than that for a money game, even at a stadium that has as many seats as Michigan Stadium. They might get more than the $888,246 Cincinnati got to play at Ohio State in 2014, if a team sells 90,000-plus tickets like Ohio State and if that team deems the pseudo-P5 designation to be worth a few more dollars.

And the amount any team could get for a money game would also depend on whether the "buying" team thinks that the opponent is appealing to TV and to ticket-buyers.

Of course you're right. And I appreciate the links.

My point was that an independent, P5 designated BYU or UConn would in fact be able to land home-and-home deals with ACC and SEC teams.

(03-27-2015 06:26 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  I wasn't being serious.

I just detest the UConn threads on this board.

Why??

I'm asking seriously. What are you talking about?

(03-27-2015 07:25 PM)DrBox Wrote:  And you realize that this is U Conn, right, not one of those schools that has to hold bake sales to balance the budget?
Play 6 SEC games and go 1-5 and then get 3 home and homes to round out the schedule. They'd make a little money and never do a thing.
The idea that they want to play a single road warrior game, much less multiple, is dubious.
And you wont' see Army do it either.

Thus, home-and-homes.

The ACC and SEC teams will be forced to do it. They're the party in need, after all. That's where this whole thing comes from.

(03-28-2015 04:56 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-27-2015 03:14 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  The second order SOS, as you call it, is important because that is why middling P5 teams still help your SOS more than a team like Boise, for example. Pure SOS is simply wins and losses. But computer rankings and other statistical models, the ones that affect committee decisions and to a lesser extent influence poll rankings, use opponents and opponent's opponents info. That is why playing a 4-8 P5 team can help you more than a 10-2 G5 team, and that is why the requirement was made. BYU, and really even army, tend to have more bigger names and P5 teams in their schedules than most G5 teams (there are exceptions, but in general).

Computers don't mean anything. Which is correct.

Sorry if I offend computer lovers, but I particularly think they have no business in college football (or other sports, for that matter) rankings. They should be for entertainment purposes only. Like message boards.

You didn't offend computer lovers. But it makes you sound ignorant to the reality of the situation. The fact that you don't like them is fine, but it doesn't change the fact that they (and SOS) absolutely affect seedings and rankings, which affects playoffs (and bowls) and the committee, and is the exact reason these rules were made.

(03-28-2015 04:55 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-27-2015 03:07 PM)nert Wrote:  

(03-27-2015 03:01 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(03-27-2015 02:52 PM)nert Wrote:  No chance that UConn would be counted as a P5 opponent if it were independent.

BYU has always been good and has a P5/national following. Army is only getting it by historical significance and national following. Neither AirForce nor Navy is getting special treatment because it would open up the whining by their conferences' members about being counted too. If Navy had stayed independent, they'd be designated a P5 opponent as well. I bet Navy regrets agreeing to join the AAC now.

Navy and Air Force can't be designated P5, because they're G5.

And only the SEC is designating Army as a P5, which is dubious anyhow.

The SEC and ACC can "count" anyone as meeting their own "P5 opponent" requirement. It isn't the same as inviting them to join the P5.

The issue (with Navy and AirForce) would be counting a member of a conference - but not a whole list of other teams that play largely the same exact schedule.

Yes exactly, they're in a G5 conference.

Hence, they're G5.

Hence, they can't be counted as P5.

Much too simplistic. I can see why you'd shorten the quote list on this one.

It isn't the G5 status that keeps Navy and AirForce from getting the same treatment by the SEC and ACC as BYU (and Army in one case) does - because BYU and Army are definitely treated as G5 for the CFP. Accepting a member of a conference (but not the whole conference) is a legitimacy issue - and many of the other schools in those conferences just couldn't be passed off as "P5-ish".

The SEC has open dates that span the entire season (they don't schedule all their OOC games at the start of the season like some conferences do) - so they've traditionally filled those slots with what are now called G5 schools - or I-AA schools. Now, due to their own rule (which is a reaction to the P5 conferences that have gone to a 9-conference game schedule), they need teams for their schools to play late in the season that meet their self-imposed, "P5 standard". But most of the rest of the P5 is locked in conference games late in the season.

Most fans consider BYU a P5 caliber team - and most fans are accepting of military academies on the schedule. Even though Army is not P5 caliber (by any stretch), most ticket holders and fans won't complain about Army/Navy/AirForce on the schedule. But most of the rest of the G5 could not possibly be accepted by fans as P5 caliber teams. They would probably accept BoiseSt and Cincinnati as P5-ish, but not just any team from the MWC and AAC.

So, I repeat: If Navy was staying independent, they would get the treatment Army is getting from the SEC - but an independent UConn would not.

They can't get away with designating Navy, AirForce, BoiseSt and Cincinnati as P5 caliber - not because they "are G5" or "in G5 conferences" but because of who is in those conferences with them. For example - they could have just as easily designated the entire MWC or AAC as counting as P5 for their conference's rule - but image-wise people wouldn't consider that move equivalent to what the Big10, Big 12 and Pac-12 are doing.

I doubt seriously that UConn would be granted the same consideration by any P5 conference "if it were only an independent". I don't think this is a signal for every G5 school to go independent and start being counted as a P5 (for SEC or ACC scheduling purposes) by the SEC or ACC. Fans still don't mind seeing their teams play Army/Navy/AirForce - but UConn is a non-player in FB. Being in the AAC isn't holding UConn FB back - being UConn is.

Navy and AirForce would make more money as independents (if they had the same status as Army does with the SEC) than they will make in the AAC or MWC. UConn makes more in the AAC.

UConn belongs in the NFC East.

(03-27-2015 06:24 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  

(03-27-2015 06:20 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  If UConn were independent ... we'd get a setup like ND has with the ACC, but UConn would have it with the Big 10.

Not being sarcastic, but why would the B10 do this? While I am not a fan of the ACC deal with ND, I at least see getting 5 games a year against them.

C'mon man, even football first Texans know UConn is a good outstanding basketball program and who is much more eyeball viewable than most bottom feeders from the self proclaimed so called p5 teams.

In other words, you put UConn in a leagues who's pay out is equal to others (millions) they will do more to the said league than most already in.

The P5 designation only counts for scheduling in those particular conf. It is simply making scheduling a bit less of a Knightmare. I promise you the Playoff/selection committee see things differently.

http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/03/wake-...schedules/

Looks like Wake has it P5 Army game.

(03-30-2015 06:40 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/03/wake-...schedules/

Looks like Wake has it P5 Army game.

Look at those schedules again. Wake has a non-con game scheduled against an actual P5 team in every year that they have an Army game scheduled.

(03-30-2015 06:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 06:40 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/03/wake-...schedules/

Looks like Wake has it P5 Army game.

Look at those schedules again. Wake has a non-con game scheduled against an actual P5 team in every year that they have an Army game scheduled.

Sarcasm attempt apparently failed.

No.

UConn brings no special audience with it to a game. They don't bring the Armed Forces Network, veterans, Catholics, or Mormons. You can't use a game with them as a recruiting segway to create some sort of connection with a military family, catholic, or Mormon family.

(03-27-2015 11:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  BYU "counts" as a P5. So wouldn't an independent UConn football team get the same treatment by the P5?

They could play non-football in the Big East.

They'd lose CFP money that they get from the American, as well as other American revenue (not sure what kind of media deal they have). And they'd lose a chance at the G5 access slot.

But let's face it, on the field the American is almost the same quality as the P5. So for UConn to win it would most likely be with a couple losses. So how likely is a 3 lose UConn to get the G5 access slot over the MWC champion with 2 losses or a 0/1 loss champion from the SB, CUSA or MAC? Probably won't happen.


So ... if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. ... And if you can't join 'em ... then get 'em to recognize you as an equivalent?

uconn barely counts as a d1 game in the aac.

(03-31-2015 12:12 AM)shere khan Wrote:  

(03-27-2015 11:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  BYU "counts" as a P5. So wouldn't an independent UConn football team get the same treatment by the P5?

They could play non-football in the Big East.

They'd lose CFP money that they get from the American, as well as other American revenue (not sure what kind of media deal they have). And they'd lose a chance at the G5 access slot.

But let's face it, on the field the American is almost the same quality as the P5. So for UConn to win it would most likely be with a couple losses. So how likely is a 3 lose UConn to get the G5 access slot over the MWC champion with 2 losses or a 0/1 loss champion from the SB, CUSA or MAC? Probably won't happen.


So ... if you can't beat 'em, join 'em. ... And if you can't join 'em ... then get 'em to recognize you as an equivalent?

uconn barely counts as a d1 game in the aac.

Your team is 1-1 against UConn including a 45-10 drubbing last time they visited Connecticut. I'd hush down just a tad on the insults.

(03-30-2015 06:47 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(03-30-2015 06:40 PM)msm96wolf Wrote:  http://www.fbschedules.com/2015/03/wake-...schedules/

Looks like Wake has it P5 Army game.

Look at those schedules again. Wake has a non-con game scheduled against an actual P5 team in every year that they have an Army game scheduled.

CORRECT. Keep in mind, too, that the ACC does NOT consider Army a "power" opponent - only the SEC does that.

(03-27-2015 02:54 PM)nert Wrote:  

(03-27-2015 11:20 AM)loki_the_bubba Wrote:  

(03-27-2015 11:14 AM)MplsBison Wrote:  ...But let's face it, on the field the American is almost the same quality as the P5...

That's where you lost me.

Yes - that was a monumental logical over-step.

Apparently you guys missed the AAC champ beating the B12 champ just 2 years ago? This season the AAC champ beat BYU, who is now 'considered P5'?

Look, I'm not claiming we'd beat them head to head half the time... but the idea they are light years ahead is obviously incorrect. It's very fair to say that on the field there is clearly some overlap between the AAC and the P5 conferences.

Yeah they want to bury us, and are rigging the game to try and make that happen... but we'll keep fighting.