If you think him going to Kansas didn't help in get in the NBA you are mistaken.

Lets be honest they have a much better reputation in the league than us.

So if I'm a scout and I go talk to Self and Pastner about Black, I'd lean towards Self b/c of the amount of NBA players he's put in the league.

His numbers at Kansas don't really matter.

(03-03-2015 11:23 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 11:11 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 09:14 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 01:03 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 01:27 PM)Crazier Wrote:  Really? If those guys had a real coach then they wouldn't be struggling trying to find teams to play for. T. Black would be overseas if he didn't go to Kansas.

Because you know Tarik put up monster numbers at Kansas. Some of you say really dumb things.

Tarik is in the NBA because he showed out during the summer. Not because he went to Kansas. His numbers weren't much better there than they were here.

Some nights Tarik would barely get 3 rebounds...

That's my whole point Tarik is the NBA because of himself, not because of playing at Kansas

Right. I also said that to say that Coach Pastner can't coach hustle and desire.

Sure he can. He could define those as clear tenets to his system and then recruit players that exhibit those qualities so that they fit into his system. It is also his responsibility to motivate each player accordingly to get the maximum amount of effort possible for each game. This is how you establish the culture of a program.

(03-03-2015 01:00 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 11:23 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 11:11 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 09:14 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 01:03 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  Because you know Tarik put up monster numbers at Kansas. Some of you say really dumb things.

Tarik is in the NBA because he showed out during the summer. Not because he went to Kansas. His numbers weren't much better there than they were here.

Some nights Tarik would barely get 3 rebounds...

That's my whole point Tarik is the NBA because of himself, not because of playing at Kansas

Right. I also said that to say that Coach Pastner can't coach hustle and desire.

Sure he can. He could define those as clear tenets to his system and then recruit players that exhibit those qualities so that they fit into his system. It is also his responsibility to motivate each player accordingly to get the maximum amount of effort possible for each game. This is how you establish the culture of a program.

Well you can't coach hustle and desire. A kid either wants to hustle and have desire or he doesn't

You can preach it all you want but until it clicks in the kids head there isn't much the coach can do.

You can even look at last year Tarik was the same guy until the last month and then he started playing with some passion. I don't think Self had anything to do with that. It just simply clicked for him.

There ate just some things coaches can't coach. Desire to play hard is one of those things

(03-03-2015 03:37 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 01:00 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 11:23 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 11:11 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 09:14 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  Some nights Tarik would barely get 3 rebounds...

That's my whole point Tarik is the NBA because of himself, not because of playing at Kansas

Right. I also said that to say that Coach Pastner can't coach hustle and desire.

Sure he can. He could define those as clear tenets to his system and then recruit players that exhibit those qualities so that they fit into his system. It is also his responsibility to motivate each player accordingly to get the maximum amount of effort possible for each game. This is how you establish the culture of a program.

Well you can't coach hustle and desire. A kid either wants to hustle and have desire or he doesn't

You can preach it all you want but until it clicks in the kids head there isn't much the coach can do.

You can even look at last year Tarik was the same guy until the last month and then he started playing with some passion. I don't think Self had anything to do with that. It just simply clicked for him.

There ate just some things coaches can't coach. Desire to play hard is one of those things

Can he not recruit those types of players?

(03-03-2015 03:47 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 03:37 PM)tigers0830 Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 01:00 PM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 11:23 AM)AtlTigerfan Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 11:11 AM)tigers0830 Wrote:  That's my whole point Tarik is the NBA because of himself, not because of playing at Kansas

Right. I also said that to say that Coach Pastner can't coach hustle and desire.

Sure he can. He could define those as clear tenets to his system and then recruit players that exhibit those qualities so that they fit into his system. It is also his responsibility to motivate each player accordingly to get the maximum amount of effort possible for each game. This is how you establish the culture of a program.

Well you can't coach hustle and desire. A kid either wants to hustle and have desire or he doesn't

You can preach it all you want but until it clicks in the kids head there isn't much the coach can do.

You can even look at last year Tarik was the same guy until the last month and then he started playing with some passion. I don't think Self had anything to do with that. It just simply clicked for him.

There ate just some things coaches can't coach. Desire to play hard is one of those things

Can he not recruit those types of players?

I agree he can recruit those players, but it can't be coached. You either do it or you don't.

That was Tarik's problems. There is no way he was supposed to go through games and only have 3 rebounds.

I don't think Pastner nor Self had much to do with Black. IMO, his physicality hampered him in college but helps him in the NBA. He was like a bull in a china shop in college.

I think that getting kids to buy in and play hard is pretty much the sine qua non of coaching. If you can't do that, then all the X's and O's, and recruiting rankings, and practices won't do very much. It's right that just preaching it isn't enough. But that's because you also have to get the kids to believe in what you're preaching. And that means getting the kids to believe in you.

Plus you can't say too many things at once.

(03-03-2015 12:47 PM)memphissince86 Wrote:  If you think him going to Kansas didn't help in get in the NBA you are mistaken.

Lets be honest they have a much better reputation in the league than us.

So if I'm a scout and I go talk to Self and Pastner about Black, I'd lean towards Self b/c of the amount of NBA players he's put in the league.

His numbers at Kansas don't really matter.

LMAO.

I watched Black do well in Summer League. It was fun... especially after seeing so much struggling going on here and there.

Anyone remember when Aaron Rodgers was talking to him about being a FB player?

The Packers passer went to Self and said, "I want to throw balls at him and see what he can do." And considering Black is 6-foot-9, 260 pounds, and had more than one foul for every two points last season, that made sense. (The Kansas bio calls him "a bruising forward.")

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/packers-qb-...4-nfl.html

(03-03-2015 03:59 PM)Briskbas Wrote:  I think that getting kids to buy in and play hard is pretty much the sine qua non of coaching. If you can't do that, then all the X's and O's, and recruiting rankings, and practices won't do very much. It's right that just preaching it isn't enough. But that's because you also have to get the kids to believe in what you're preaching. And that means getting the kids to believe in you.

And that takes knowing something about the game.

(03-02-2015 11:45 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 11:28 AM)memphissince86 Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 08:30 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 12:06 AM)BASSDRUMMER68-75 Wrote:  This isn't about firing a coach or not firing a coach. It is about the Basketball IQs of our team. I believe that if there was a measurement for Bball IQ like there is for regular IQ, this team would be in the D.I.D.S. section of the chart.
They are doing things that are really stupid. Like rolling the ball up the court and letting the other team steal the ball. Throwing passes DIRECTLY to the opponents, picking up the dribble at the wrong time or place on the court.

I don't know if it is coaching or lack of, but no other team in the Pastner era has done this kinda crap for the ENTIRE SEASON. They have done early in the season but snapped out of it. They do some things that are really, really questionable. I have never seen a team do this stuff.

For those of you who do not what D.I.D.S. is, it is the new P.C. term for "special". Stands for Delayed Intelligence Development Syndrome.

This team just isn't as talented. So that's why its looked bad for the entire season. The last 4 years we had talent to overcome it.

Bingo. Everyone chastised Joe, Chris etc. but they saved Pastner those 4yrs.

If only they had a coach to get them past there natural talents.

It will take a while, but one day folks will look back and realize just how much talent was on those early teams.

Shaq
Tarik (Rockets/Lakers)
Will (Trailblazers/Nuggets)
Adonis (Magic/Sixers/NBDL)
DJ (Bucks/overseas)
Crawford (NBDL)
Joe (NBDL)
Geron Johnson (NBDL)

Now take those same guys and consider what years they played and make the TEAM that can't be exploited and makes a sweet 16. Please tell me by position why they should make it compared to the other teams that did that year.

(03-03-2015 09:01 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 11:45 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 11:28 AM)memphissince86 Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 08:30 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 12:06 AM)BASSDRUMMER68-75 Wrote:  This isn't about firing a coach or not firing a coach. It is about the Basketball IQs of our team. I believe that if there was a measurement for Bball IQ like there is for regular IQ, this team would be in the D.I.D.S. section of the chart.
They are doing things that are really stupid. Like rolling the ball up the court and letting the other team steal the ball. Throwing passes DIRECTLY to the opponents, picking up the dribble at the wrong time or place on the court.

I don't know if it is coaching or lack of, but no other team in the Pastner era has done this kinda crap for the ENTIRE SEASON. They have done early in the season but snapped out of it. They do some things that are really, really questionable. I have never seen a team do this stuff.

For those of you who do not what D.I.D.S. is, it is the new P.C. term for "special". Stands for Delayed Intelligence Development Syndrome.

This team just isn't as talented. So that's why its looked bad for the entire season. The last 4 years we had talent to overcome it.

Bingo. Everyone chastised Joe, Chris etc. but they saved Pastner those 4yrs.

If only they had a coach to get them past there natural talents.

It will take a while, but one day folks will look back and realize just how much talent was on those early teams.

Shaq
Tarik (Rockets/Lakers)
Will (Trailblazers/Nuggets)
Adonis (Magic/Sixers/NBDL)
DJ (Bucks/overseas)
Crawford (NBDL)
Joe (NBDL)
Geron Johnson (NBDL)

Now take those same guys and consider what years they played and make the TEAM that can't be exploited and makes a sweet 16. Please tell me by position why they should make it compared to the other teams that did that year.

Huh?

(03-03-2015 09:48 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 09:01 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 11:45 AM)HoopDreams Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 11:28 AM)memphissince86 Wrote:  

(03-02-2015 08:30 AM)Brother Bluto Wrote:  This team just isn't as talented. So that's why its looked bad for the entire season. The last 4 years we had talent to overcome it.

Bingo. Everyone chastised Joe, Chris etc. but they saved Pastner those 4yrs.

If only they had a coach to get them past there natural talents.

It will take a while, but one day folks will look back and realize just how much talent was on those early teams.

Shaq
Tarik (Rockets/Lakers)
Will (Trailblazers/Nuggets)
Adonis (Magic/Sixers/NBDL)
DJ (Bucks/overseas)
Crawford (NBDL)
Joe (NBDL)
Geron Johnson (NBDL)

Now take those same guys and consider what years they played and make the TEAM that can't be exploited and makes a sweet 16. Please tell me by position why they should make it compared to the other teams that did that year.

Huh?

It is really a simple question. Based on when those players were on the Tigers roster, show me the team that would have advanced to the sweet 16 in a given year looking at the players strengths and weaknesses and relative to the teams that actually made it in the year you choose. BTW, shouldn't Austin be included if you are including Shaq (a current player)?

No idea.

That team won 31 games though and 2 starters are in the NBA.

(03-03-2015 09:56 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  No idea.

That team won 31 games though and 2 starters are in the NBA.

Well you can't argue the expectations of a team without that analysis. You have also repeatedly said that our wins come against crap teams so that isn't a good point either. Two guys is good but did we have any glaring weaknesses in the other positions at the time that would have led to games lost on the way to the sweet 16? Just trying to get a concrete feeling on why people think we should have gotten there.
On another note, the 2 guys that are actually in the NBA did not actually play together on that team that won 31 games and that team finished the year #19 in the AP poll and went into the NCAA tourny ranked there so objectively they should not have made the sweet 16.

(03-03-2015 10:27 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 09:56 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  No idea.

That team won 31 games though and 2 starters are in the NBA.

Well you can't argue the expectations of a team without that analysis. You have also repeatedly said that our wins come against crap teams so that isn't a good point either. Two guys is good but did we have any glaring weaknesses in the other positions at the time that would have led to games lost on the way to the sweet 16? Just trying to get a concrete feeling on why people think we should have gotten there.
On another note, the 2 guys that are actually in the NBA did not actually play together on that team that won 31 games and that team finished the year #19 in the AP poll and went into the NCAA tourny ranked there so objectively they should not have made the sweet 16.

I'm not sure that anyone can do what you are asking. That being said, in general, our problem has been that we didn't always take care of business in the regular season to ensure better seeding in the tournament. Last year was a prime example. We had enough talent and experience to make the S16, but we got punked too many times during the regular season, and then again in the conf tourney, to secure a decent seed.

(03-03-2015 10:27 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 09:56 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  No idea.

That team won 31 games though and 2 starters are in the NBA.

Well you can't argue the expectations of a team without that analysis. You have also repeatedly said that our wins come against crap teams so that isn't a good point either. Two guys is good but did we have any glaring weaknesses in the other positions at the time that would have led to games lost on the way to the sweet 16? Just trying to get a concrete feeling on why people think we should have gotten there.
On another note, the 2 guys that are actually in the NBA did not actually play together on that team that won 31 games and that team finished the year #19 in the AP poll and went into the NCAA tourny ranked there so objectively they should not have made the sweet 16.

Simple enough.

The 2011-12 team:

Joe Jackson
Adonis (NBA cup of coffee)
Tarik (NBA reserve)
DJ (NBA cup of coffee)
Will (NBA reserve)
Chris Crawford

plus:
Witherspoon (top 40 recruit)
Simpson (Top 10 JUCO)
Ferro Hall
Antonio Barton

Lost to St. Louis in the first game. Pretty much lost to every team with a pulse during the regular season (including home to Murray State), save Xavier at home.

(03-04-2015 10:38 AM)RekeHavoc Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 10:27 PM)bcspiker Wrote:  

(03-03-2015 09:56 PM)HoopDreams Wrote:  No idea.

That team won 31 games though and 2 starters are in the NBA.

Well you can't argue the expectations of a team without that analysis. You have also repeatedly said that our wins come against crap teams so that isn't a good point either. Two guys is good but did we have any glaring weaknesses in the other positions at the time that would have led to games lost on the way to the sweet 16? Just trying to get a concrete feeling on why people think we should have gotten there.
On another note, the 2 guys that are actually in the NBA did not actually play together on that team that won 31 games and that team finished the year #19 in the AP poll and went into the NCAA tourny ranked there so objectively they should not have made the sweet 16.

I'm not sure that anyone can do what you are asking. That being said, in general, our problem has been that we didn't always take care of business in the regular season to ensure better seeding in the tournament. Last year was a prime example. We had enough talent and experience to make the S16, but we got punked too many times during the regular season, and then again in the conf tourney, to secure a decent seed.

And the AAC didn't have a representative on the seeding committee.