(02-22-2015 05:51 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 05:40 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  I mentioned above I think it could be done and how it could work. With Notre Dame and BYU playing P5 teams, and two bye weeks, it leaves some room in the schedule for teams in P5 conferences to play them if they wanted. The issue I was referring to was getting BIG names to come to campus. That one will be hard to come by.

When schedules were 10 games, it was easier obviously. Now all of the P5 schools seem to think it's their birthright to have 7-8 home games a season. In the USM example above, I assumed several things. First would be renewing it's annual game(s) with Tulane and/or Memphis. I think those three schools should always play. I also assumed that the series' with Mississippi State and Alabama would continue and the ones with Ole Miss and Auburn could be renewed. Having had relationships with Louisville, Florida State, TCU, and other P5s could produce home and home deals, but even single games would prove valuable to USM. It may not be ideal, but if they could get back to 7-9 games of P5 level, then USM fans could probably live with a home slate largely made up of Louisiana Tech, Arkansas State, South Alabama and SWAC teams.

Again, I can't see why a school like Boise, Rice or USM wouldn't at least try it. It's not like they have far to fall.

As others have said here, it takes a critical mass of football indies to make it sufficiently attractive.

Using Boise State as an example: If they become a football indy and it's just them and the current indies, it would be very challenging to make attractive schedules. But if they go indy at about the same time as, say, Fresno State, San Diego State, Hawaii, and Air Force, then, with those four plus Boise and BYU, you have six western schools that could be a solid core for each other's schedules every year.

If there were no ACC vs UConn threads this website might go out of business

(02-22-2015 06:31 PM)Minutemen429 Wrote:  If there were no ACC vs UConn threads this website might go out of business

It sure would. So many threads/posts for such an inconsequential school...

(02-22-2015 05:58 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-22-2015 05:51 PM)Zombiewoof Wrote:  Again, I can't see why a school like Boise, Rice or USM wouldn't at least try it. It's not like they have far to fall.

Boise made a New Year's Six Bowl THIS season because they were a G5 champion. Since the BCS and playoffs have exited, exactly one team from a non-power conference made a major bowl because they were chosen: every other one got in due to contractual language of their ranking AND being a conference champion (Boise St in 2009 was the exception). Giving up guaranteed access to the New Years Day Bowls is what will keep any team from voluntarily going Indy.

They would also lose a conference share of the playoff money.

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Most posters seem to be focusing on football independence. But there already are football indys out there. A big part of my OP, the biggest in fact, was the question of whether it would be possible for a school like UConn, which has little to lose in football, to also be independent in men's basketball.

Could they secure media deals like ND has in football, so that they have more overall revenue than they can expect in the future as a member of the AAC?

(02-23-2015 10:01 AM)ken d Wrote:  Most posters seem to be focusing on football independence. But there already are football indys out there. A big part of my OP, the biggest in fact, was the question of whether it would be possible for a school like UConn, which has little to lose in football, to also be independent in men's basketball.

Could they secure media deals like ND has in football, so that they have more overall revenue than they can expect in the future as a member of the AAC?

If the question is whether they could be independent in men's basketball, I'd say no. The biggest problem is scheduling in January and February, as you've noted, where (at best) they'll be having 2 months of subpar games if they're able to even have a full schedule at all. There aren't going to be many Big Ten and ACC teams that are going to schedule UConn in the middle of conference play... and for that matter, you wouldn't even see AAC or A-10 teams do it, either. It would almost be impossible for UConn to get a schedule that's on par with its AAC schedule as a basketball independent. If UConn has to play road games since they're independent, then that completely defeats the purpose of trying to get more TV money since they can't sell the TV rights to road games in the first place.

Also, I'd beg to differ that UConn has nothing to lose in football. The only way one could think that is looking at short-term media revenue. In the long-term, though, UConn has *everything* to lose in football. In a world with 66 P5 schools, they're arguably school #67. Even if it's unlikely that the ACC or Big Ten expand for the foreseeable future, no program that was THISCLOSE to a P5 invite can just give up on football. They're "pot committed" in poker parlance. The goal for UConn isn't just to make a few more TV dollars - it's ultimately about P5 membership. Going independent would make that goal much harder.

(02-21-2015 03:19 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 03:07 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 02:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  IMO even if you add Idaho and NMSU eventually you are probably three, maybe four independents away from it being anything feasible in football. In basketball I don;t see how it could be done once everybody else starts conference play.

That said...even if it is feasible I don't know how successful it would be. I doubt that the media outlets are going to pay more than what they are already getting for six games when they consist primarily of Idaho, NMSU, UMass, Army, and a FCS school.

I wouldn't expect UConn to be able to get much of a contract for their football. Maybe not any. But if they could line up heavyweight hoops programs from among several conferences - ACC, B1G, Big East and A-10 - they might not do too badly, since they wouldn't be sharing it with conference mates.

I would also guess that they wouldn't get bowl money but once in a blue moon.

Does anybody remember when there last was a basketball independent? Maybe Miami?

Miami didn't have a basketball team until they joined the Big East.

NJIT is now a DI independent in all their sports.

Notre Dame might have been the last legitimate basketball independent. Other schools that have been independent in last 30 years were because no conference wanted them. E.g. UTPA and Chicago St

OOPs, Guess I'm one whom lived in Miami in the '60's.........Rick Barry ! (not Me)

From Wik.
Main article: Miami Hurricanes men's basketball
The Miami Hurricanes men's basketball team has produced three players who are currently on NBA rosters. Rick Barry, who played his collegiate basketball at UM, is a member of the Basketball Hall of Fame. Barry is the Hurricanes' only consensus All-American in basketball and led the nation in scoring his senior year with a 37.4 average during the 1964–65 campaign. The team plays its home games at the BankUnited Center on the University of Miami's Coral Gables campus

Great player, one of My Youthful days heroes !

NJIT isn't indy by choice, they are looking for a conference.

Could it be done, yes but I can't see how it would be desirable. If you are talking just football & basketball than there probably would be more independent now. There are NCAA requirements for competing at D1 level so if you put your Olympic sports in a conference than they would require you to play either football or basketball there as well.

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Independence is cold and lonely.

I want UConn in a conference. The best option would be regional (UConn, BC, Syracuse, UMass, Army, Rutgers, Temple, Pitt, Maryland, Navy, Penn State, WVU). That's not ever going to happen. So we have to settle for the AAC, which I still like a lot.

(02-23-2015 11:53 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Independence is cold and lonely.

I want UConn in a conference. The best option would be regional (UConn, BC, Syracuse, UMass, Army, Rutgers, Temple, Pitt, Maryland, Navy, Penn State, WVU). That's not ever going to happen. So we have to settle for the AAC, which I still like a lot.

I obviously love that ND is a football independent.

Even in basketball and baseball, I am not a big conference fan.

For instance, I don't pay much attention to how other conference schools are doing in those sports, for both in and out of conference games.

I could not tell you what the basketball standings are, for instance.

I am well aware that ND is 24-4 but could not tell you much about how the rest of the ACC is doing without looking it up.

I guess we are a bit different in that regard.

(02-23-2015 10:58 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  OOPs, Guess I'm one whom lived in Miami in the '60's.........Rick Barry ! (not Me)

From Wik.
Main article: Miami Hurricanes men's basketball
The Miami Hurricanes men's basketball team has produced three players who are currently on NBA rosters. Rick Barry, who played his collegiate basketball at UM, is a member of the Basketball Hall of Fame. Barry is the Hurricanes' only consensus All-American in basketball and led the nation in scoring his senior year with a 37.4 average during the 1964–65 campaign. The team plays its home games at the BankUnited Center on the University of Miami's Coral Gables campus

Great player, one of My Youthful days heroes !

IIRC, Miami was independent in baseball until the school joined the ACC. They kept baseball indy when they joined the Big East for other sports.

(02-23-2015 10:58 AM)CardFan1 Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 03:19 PM)NoDak Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 03:07 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(02-21-2015 02:59 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  IMO even if you add Idaho and NMSU eventually you are probably three, maybe four independents away from it being anything feasible in football. In basketball I don;t see how it could be done once everybody else starts conference play.

That said...even if it is feasible I don't know how successful it would be. I doubt that the media outlets are going to pay more than what they are already getting for six games when they consist primarily of Idaho, NMSU, UMass, Army, and a FCS school.

I wouldn't expect UConn to be able to get much of a contract for their football. Maybe not any. But if they could line up heavyweight hoops programs from among several conferences - ACC, B1G, Big East and A-10 - they might not do too badly, since they wouldn't be sharing it with conference mates.

I would also guess that they wouldn't get bowl money but once in a blue moon.

Does anybody remember when there last was a basketball independent? Maybe Miami?

Miami didn't have a basketball team until they joined the Big East.

NJIT is now a DI independent in all their sports.

Notre Dame might have been the last legitimate basketball independent. Other schools that have been independent in last 30 years were because no conference wanted them. E.g. UTPA and Chicago St

OOPs, Guess I'm one whom lived in Miami in the '60's.........Rick Barry ! (not Me)

From Wik.
Main article: Miami Hurricanes men's basketball
The Miami Hurricanes men's basketball team has produced three players who are currently on NBA rosters. Rick Barry, who played his collegiate basketball at UM, is a member of the Basketball Hall of Fame. Barry is the Hurricanes' only consensus All-American in basketball and led the nation in scoring his senior year with a 37.4 average during the 1964–65 campaign. The team plays its home games at the BankUnited Center on the University of Miami's Coral Gables campus

Great player, one of My Youthful days heroes !

Miami dropped basketball from 1971-1985, when they joined the Big East.

you can't be D1 without basketball now can you??

no one can go indy in all sports....

Notre Dame isn't even indy in all sports

in football in can work. the idea is that UConn would rejoin the Big East in all sports

(02-23-2015 01:31 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Miami dropped basketball from 1971-1985, when they joined the Big East.

I don't think Miami joined the Big East until 1990 or 1991.

(02-23-2015 03:45 PM)EvilVodka Wrote:  no one can go indy in all sports....

Notre Dame isn't even indy in all sports

in football in can work. the idea is that UConn would rejoin the Big East in all sports

Could but would be a disaster for its football program!

(02-23-2015 12:17 PM)TerryD Wrote:  

(02-23-2015 11:53 AM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Independence is cold and lonely.

I want UConn in a conference. The best option would be regional (UConn, BC, Syracuse, UMass, Army, Rutgers, Temple, Pitt, Maryland, Navy, Penn State, WVU). That's not ever going to happen. So we have to settle for the AAC, which I still like a lot.

I obviously love that ND is a football independent.

Even in basketball and baseball, I am not a big conference fan.

For instance, I don't pay much attention to how other conference schools are doing in those sports, for both in and out of conference games.

I could not tell you what the basketball standings are, for instance.

I am well aware that ND is 24-4 but could not tell you much about how the rest of the ACC is doing without looking it up.

I guess we are a bit different in that regard.

Conventional wisdom & rules don't apply for ND and Army.

But I still don't buy BYU as an independent.

(02-23-2015 10:17 AM)Frank the Tank Wrote:  

(02-23-2015 10:01 AM)ken d Wrote:  Most posters seem to be focusing on football independence. But there already are football indys out there. A big part of my OP, the biggest in fact, was the question of whether it would be possible for a school like UConn, which has little to lose in football, to also be independent in men's basketball.

Could they secure media deals like ND has in football, so that they have more overall revenue than they can expect in the future as a member of the AAC?

If the question is whether they could be independent in men's basketball, I'd say no. The biggest problem is scheduling in January and February, as you've noted, where (at best) they'll be having 2 months of subpar games if they're able to even have a full schedule at all. There aren't going to be many Big Ten and ACC teams that are going to schedule UConn in the middle of conference play... and for that matter, you wouldn't even see AAC or A-10 teams do it, either. It would almost be impossible for UConn to get a schedule that's on par with its AAC schedule as a basketball independent. If UConn has to play road games since they're independent, then that completely defeats the purpose of trying to get more TV money since they can't sell the TV rights to road games in the first place.

Also, I'd beg to differ that UConn has nothing to lose in football. The only way one could think that is looking at short-term media revenue. In the long-term, though, UConn has *everything* to lose in football. In a world with 66 P5 schools, they're arguably school #67. Even if it's unlikely that the ACC or Big Ten expand for the foreseeable future, no program that was THISCLOSE to a P5 invite can just give up on football. They're "pot committed" in poker parlance. The goal for UConn isn't just to make a few more TV dollars - it's ultimately about P5 membership. Going independent would make that goal much harder.

So much wisdom regarding UConn from someone outside the Northeast is rare.

Of course someone CAN be an independent. NJIT is doing it.

Now that doesn't mean you can do it without significant costs.

1. There is no autoberth into the major sports.
2. Scheduling is always going to be hard in the later parts of the season in the team vs. team head-to-head competitions.
3. There will be a recruiting disadvantage built into it.

It can be done but it won't be pretty.

(02-23-2015 03:53 PM)adcorbett Wrote:  

(02-23-2015 01:31 PM)NoDak Wrote:  Miami dropped basketball from 1971-1985, when they joined the Big East.

I don't think Miami joined the Big East until 1990 or 1991.

Right, Miami restarted basketball for the 86 season, but didn't join the Big East til the 92 season.

Miami Hurricanes Hoops