(01-30-2015 12:19 PM)Wolfman Wrote:  The committee should not issue rankings until all games are played.

All games are essentially played after championship weekend. The A-N game is literally the only one not played out of the hundreds in the season.

I don't think the committee will be changing its operations for the A-N game.

(01-30-2015 02:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Point is, they shouldn't have to. The Access bowl should be open to all FBS schools not in the P5, conference or not.

With all due respect to FBS independents, I disagree.

For the most part, the major college football offseason has always been based on contracts between groups who own & operate bowl games and conferences. The CFP is absolutely no different. It's a contract between six bowl game organizations and ten conferences.

If you're outside of that structure, I don't see why you have a claim to access it.

(01-30-2015 02:08 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Why would we disqualify Navy when the reality is the other G5 champs get the advantage of having one more victory than Navy on selection day. That's an advantage is it not?

Like I said, this is just part of the selection committee calculus that will be handled on Selection Sunday. Its not perfect, but you cannot by rule eliminate Navy. The reality is Navy is probably effectively eliminated because---as I have said, Navy will almost always come to the table on Selection Sunday with one less win than the other G5 champs. If Navy ever comes into to selection Sunday with more wins than the other G5 champs, then does it even really matter if they lose to Army? They would still finish the season with more wins than any other G5 champ.

So let's say Navy is 11-0 and Boise is 11-1, with sole loss to a top 10 P5 team.

The committee picks Navy as the "G5 champion" to play in the Fiesta Bowl vs the second place PAC-12 team.

Then Navy loses to Army the weekend after the bowl slots are filled. Navy ends up 11-1, like Boise and with a much worse loss than Boise's.


That's what we're talking about.

(01-30-2015 02:38 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 02:08 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Why would we disqualify Navy when the reality is the other G5 champs get the advantage of having one more victory than Navy on selection day. That's an advantage is it not?

Like I said, this is just part of the selection committee calculus that will be handled on Selection Sunday. Its not perfect, but you cannot by rule eliminate Navy. The reality is Navy is probably effectively eliminated because---as I have said, Navy will almost always come to the table on Selection Sunday with one less win than the other G5 champs. If Navy ever comes into to selection Sunday with more wins than the other G5 champs, then does it even really matter if they lose to Army? They would still finish the season with more wins than any other G5 champ.

what if Navy and BSU are both in the top 10. BSU gets the G5 bid, Navy an at-large that knocks a P5 team. Navy losing the next week will really piss off the P5 team it knocked out.

What if Boise gets picked and zombies take over the world before the New Years Day? The chances of there being 2 top 10 G5 teams and a zombie apocalypse are about the same (ok, a bit of an over statement, but not by much). Marshall was undefeated and barely cracked to the top-25. The anti-G5 bias is so blatant there is little chance of any G5 team being in the top ten--let alone 2 in the top 10. With the selection committee currently stacked with P5 representation, the chances of a G5 team being is playoff is as close to zero as it comes.

(01-30-2015 03:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 02:38 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 02:08 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Why would we disqualify Navy when the reality is the other G5 champs get the advantage of having one more victory than Navy on selection day. That's an advantage is it not?

Like I said, this is just part of the selection committee calculus that will be handled on Selection Sunday. Its not perfect, but you cannot by rule eliminate Navy. The reality is Navy is probably effectively eliminated because---as I have said, Navy will almost always come to the table on Selection Sunday with one less win than the other G5 champs. If Navy ever comes into to selection Sunday with more wins than the other G5 champs, then does it even really matter if they lose to Army? They would still finish the season with more wins than any other G5 champ.

what if Navy and BSU are both in the top 10. BSU gets the G5 bid, Navy an at-large that knocks a P5 team. Navy losing the next week will really piss off the P5 team it knocked out.

What if Boise gets picked and zombies take over the world before the New Years Day? The chances of there being 2 top 10 G5 teams and a zombie apocalypse are about the same. Marshall was undefeated and barely cracked to the top-25. The anti-G5 bias is so blatant there is little chance of any G5 team being in the top ten--let alone 2 in the top 10. With the selection committee currently stacked with P5 representation, the chances of a G5 team being is playoff is as close to zero as it comes.

yeah...and Mississippi St and Ole Miss will never be ranked #1 and #2 in the polls ever!...etc.

Its only about ratings which only 6 million viewers cared to tune in this past game....and it just happen to be the most since 1999. Everyone does know they did have this game earlier not to long ago the same Saturday of the CCG's of other conferences right? Its not the date that is traditional and they play the game before all other CCG's so they had the game all to themselves.
http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2013/12/...ince-1999/

(01-30-2015 02:58 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 02:01 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  Point is, they shouldn't have to. The Access bowl should be open to all FBS schools not in the P5, conference or not.

With all due respect to FBS independents, I disagree.

For the most part, the major college football offseason has always been based on contracts between groups who own & operate bowl games and conferences. The CFP is absolutely no different. It's a contract between six bowl game organizations and ten conferences.

If you're outside of that structure, I don't see why you have a claim to access it.

As a G5 school fan who hated the early days of the BCS---you are completely correct.

The MWC is probably speaking on behalf of a disgruntled AFA. The Sun Belt is just trying to get attention.

(01-30-2015 03:05 PM)OrangeCrush22 Wrote:  The MWC is probably speaking on behalf of a disgruntled AFA. The Sun Belt is just trying to get attention.

Actually, I would say Boise.

Boise loves getting that "G5 champion" access slot to a big six bowl game. They won't want that jeopardizes in any meaningful way.

Benson probably is just playing politics.

Navy will have to have won the AAC Championship game would they have not? If they won out then come selection time they would have 12 wins including the Championship game. They should be treated like the Big 12 at that point and placed in whatever Bowl they earn at that point. The CFP committee said it was the 13th game that made the difference not the "Championship Game".

I think Navy would agree to that.

Of course if they go to a Championship model then this would have to be revisited.

(01-30-2015 03:21 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Navy will have to have won the AAC Championship game would they have not? If they won out then come selection time they would have 12 wins including the Championship game. They should be treated like the Big 12 at that point and placed in whatever Bowl they earn at that point. The CFP committee said it was the 13th game that made the difference not the "Championship Game".

I think Navy would agree to that.

Of course if they go to a Championship model then this would have to be revisited.

Good point, but it doesn't change anything.

Update my previous hypothetical to Navy winning the ACC CG and Boise winning the MWC CG. Then Navy is 12-0 and Boise is 12-1, with only loss to a top 10 P5 team.

Navy gets selected and then loses to Army. Boise would have been selected if Navy was 12-1 with a loss to Army.


See why this is a problem?

(01-30-2015 03:01 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 02:38 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 02:08 PM)Attackcoog Wrote:  Why would we disqualify Navy when the reality is the other G5 champs get the advantage of having one more victory than Navy on selection day. That's an advantage is it not?

Like I said, this is just part of the selection committee calculus that will be handled on Selection Sunday. Its not perfect, but you cannot by rule eliminate Navy. The reality is Navy is probably effectively eliminated because---as I have said, Navy will almost always come to the table on Selection Sunday with one less win than the other G5 champs. If Navy ever comes into to selection Sunday with more wins than the other G5 champs, then does it even really matter if they lose to Army? They would still finish the season with more wins than any other G5 champ.

what if Navy and BSU are both in the top 10. BSU gets the G5 bid, Navy an at-large that knocks a P5 team. Navy losing the next week will really piss off the P5 team it knocked out.

What if Boise gets picked and zombies take over the world before the New Years Day? The chances of there being 2 top 10 G5 teams and a zombie apocalypse are about the same (ok, a bit of an over statement, but not by much). Marshall was undefeated and barely cracked to the top-25. The anti-G5 bias is so blatant there is little chance of any G5 team being in the top ten--let alone 2 in the top 10. With the selection committee currently stacked with P5 representation, the chances of a G5 team being is playoff is as close to zero as it comes.

That had more to do with Marshall playing about as weak of a schedule as they could than it did them being G5.

(01-30-2015 03:24 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 03:21 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Navy will have to have won the AAC Championship game would they have not? If they won out then come selection time they would have 12 wins including the Championship game. They should be treated like the Big 12 at that point and placed in whatever Bowl they earn at that point. The CFP committee said it was the 13th game that made the difference not the "Championship Game".

I think Navy would agree to that.

Of course if they go to a Championship model then this would have to be revisited.

Good point, but it doesn't change anything.

Update my previous hypothetical to Navy winning the ACC CG and Boise winning the MWC CG. Then Navy is 12-0 and Boise is 12-1, with only loss to a top 10 P5 team.

Navy gets selected and then loses to Army. Boise would have been selected if Navy was 12-1 with a loss to Army.


See why this is a problem?

it is an issue or it wouldn't have been brought up by the committee. In the link Swarbrick said there are severals ways the game could be handled. I wonder if the Army Navy game could become an "exempt" game. Now that would open up all kinds of doors.

(01-30-2015 03:46 PM)Dasville Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 03:24 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 03:21 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Navy will have to have won the AAC Championship game would they have not? If they won out then come selection time they would have 12 wins including the Championship game. They should be treated like the Big 12 at that point and placed in whatever Bowl they earn at that point. The CFP committee said it was the 13th game that made the difference not the "Championship Game".

I think Navy would agree to that.

Of course if they go to a Championship model then this would have to be revisited.

Good point, but it doesn't change anything.

Update my previous hypothetical to Navy winning the ACC CG and Boise winning the MWC CG. Then Navy is 12-0 and Boise is 12-1, with only loss to a top 10 P5 team.

Navy gets selected and then loses to Army. Boise would have been selected if Navy was 12-1 with a loss to Army.


See why this is a problem?

it is an issue or it wouldn't have been brought up by the committee. In the link Swarbrick said there are severals ways the game could be handled. I wonder if the Army Navy game could become an "exempt" game. Now that would open up all kinds of doors.

Everyone does know they did have this game earlier not to long ago the same Saturday of the CCG's of other conferences right?
Its not the date that is traditional and they played the game before all other CCG's so they had the game all to themselves. The only started play after the CCG in 2009.

(01-30-2015 03:46 PM)Dasville Wrote:  it is an issue or it wouldn't have been brought up by the committee. In the link Swarbrick said there are severals ways the game could be handled. I wonder if the Army Navy game could become an "exempt" game. Now that would open up all kinds of doors.

The rankings can't be moved back a week and the game can't be moved up a week.

They can't select Navy contingent on beating Army the following week because that's has all the same problems as moving the rankings back a week.


So with that, I think the only way Navy can be selected is if there is agreement by the committee that Navy would still be head and shoulders above any other G5 team with a loss to Army. In other words, they're essentially going to build in a loss to Army in the Navy profile.

That's not fair to Navy, but the other options aren't fair to everyone else. They're doing this to themselves by playing a special game a week after everyone else packs it up. That's the choice they're making.

(01-30-2015 03:56 PM)MWC Tex Wrote:  Everyone does know they did have this game earlier not to long ago the same Saturday of the CCG's of other conferences right?
Its not the date that is traditional and they played the game before all other CCG's so they had the game all to themselves. The only started play after the CCG in 2009.

But that's probably because there was a tradition where Army and Navy played after everyone else was done playing.

In other words, regardless of whatever regular season conditions exist - Army and Navy always want to have a special spotlight on them for their game.

How is the AAC going to handle this same situation? Are they going to split into divisions and play a championship game when Navy joins and gives them twelve members? If so how will that work? Navy can't play two games in one day.

(01-30-2015 04:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  How is the AAC going to handle this same situation? Are they going to split into divisions and play a championship game when Navy joins and gives them twelve members? If so how will that work? Navy can't play two games in one day.

I'd think this might be more of an AAC issue, and how it might really muck up their bowl selections. What if Navy is 5-6, and the AAC has to wait for Navy to beat Army, bowl qualify, and sort out their conference bowl assignments?

(01-30-2015 04:07 PM)Kaplony Wrote:  How is the AAC going to handle this same situation? Are they going to split into divisions and play a championship game when Navy joins and gives them twelve members? If so how will that work? Navy can't play two games in one day.

The AAC CG would be played on Championship weekend (usually first weekend in Dec) and the contract for the A-N game is for it to be played the second weekend in Dec.

(01-30-2015 03:24 PM)MplsBison Wrote:  

(01-30-2015 03:21 PM)Dasville Wrote:  Navy will have to have won the AAC Championship game would they have not? If they won out then come selection time they would have 12 wins including the Championship game. They should be treated like the Big 12 at that point and placed in whatever Bowl they earn at that point. The CFP committee said it was the 13th game that made the difference not the "Championship Game".

I think Navy would agree to that.

Of course if they go to a Championship model then this would have to be revisited.

Good point, but it doesn't change anything.

Update my previous hypothetical to Navy winning the ACC CG and Boise winning the MWC CG. Then Navy is 12-0 and Boise is 12-1, with only loss to a top 10 P5 team.

Navy gets selected and then loses to Army. Boise would have been selected if Navy was 12-1 with a loss to Army.


See why this is a problem?

No. Because it ignores the fact that Navy beat a top ten Notre Dame. You don't disqualify Navy by rule because we have no idea what they may accomplish. Just let it play out.

As long as there is only 1 game after the CCG Saturday, all invites for Army or Navy can be conditional. Whether its a playoff invite, committee bowl invite or just a regular bowl.

They get the invite on the condition that they win the Army-Navy game, otherwise this other team gets the invite instead. It makes things more complicated, but not too complicated.