(01-25-2015 11:48 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:06 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  ive heard alot of chatter from the patriots but did any one actually say "we did not deflate the ballls, ask anyone else to do it, or are aware of anyone that did it on their own direction." ?

Well, the Patriots have said in the strongest of terms that they as an organization completely complied with all the rules and did nothing wrong. That's a pretty strong position. If you have watched BB in his last two press conferences, it seems pretty clear that he has been the most specific and unambiguous of his entire career.

that is my point. He has used a lot of words that are probably true, but hasnt, as far as i heard, come out with the simple sentence. " I did not deflate the balls. I did not instruct anyone to deflate the balls. Nor did any of the players, coaches and employees of this organization"
Saying we complied with the rules isnt the same thing as saying we did not deflate the balls.
Very often the longer the answer the more likley it isnt totally the truth.

This whole thing could have been over days ago. The Pats destroyed the colts, the balls had noting to do with it.

(01-25-2015 08:22 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 08:15 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 07:43 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 02:28 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 02:22 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  This stuff happens all the time. In the AFC championship game about 10 years ago, the Colts had fake crowd noise pumped through their sound system. I know the Cubs let their infield grass grow to about 6" deep to slow down ground balls when they had elderly and slow infield players.

But since the Patriots are involved (the most successful franchise with a pretty boy QB married to a supermodel) all hell breaks loose.

And I bet the loudest voices right now come from people who cheated on exams all through school and still cheat on their income taxes.

So if there's no advantage to be gained from deflating the footballs, why is there a rule in place? Pats fans can't seem to answer that question. Probably because they know they were caught cheating, then lied about cheating, then lied about lying about cheating.

That's a good question. And it's one that fans of every team can't seem to answer. The only answer would seem to be the one that exasperated parents have been using for generations when their children ask why they can't do something: "Just because".

There is also a rule in place about overinflating the footballs. If there is no advantage to be gained from inflating the footballs, why is there a rule in place about that?

With the deflated balls, the Pats out scored the Colts 17-7. With the normal balls, the Pats out scored the Colts 28-0.

Clearly a competitive advantage.

BenJarvis Green-Ellis, do you remember him? Played for the Pats and was known for NOT fumbling the ball. Went to the Cincinnati Bengals and gets a serious case of fumblitis. At the risk of getting a non-answer, do you care to speculate as to WHY that happened?

He's not getting the blocking like he got in New England.

Again, defensive players bark out signals to get the offensive line to jump. This happens all the time. Should those players get fined? Suspended? Banned? They're breaking the rules for a competitive advantage ...

In baseball ... Maury Wills was a great base stealer for the LA Dodgers in the 1960's. When he played on the road, opposing teams would flood the area around first base with water until there was a puddle. That would make it difficult for Wills to get a good jump on stealing second base. It gave the opposing teams a competitive advantage over the Dodgers.

In basketball and soccer, players flop intentionally (sometimes without even being touched) to get a foul call and a competitive advantage. This behavior is against the rules in both sports.

Stuff like this happens all the time in sports. In every sport. Every day.

People need to wake up and stop being naive.

(01-23-2015 11:09 AM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-23-2015 01:15 AM)PirateTreasureNC Wrote:  Sooo

Game is a blowout...

Only the balls in play for the first half (11/12 anyway) had below tolerance level air of which the score of the game was close.

The 2nd half air pressure was fine and the Pats proceeded to romp.

Based on ball handling procedures it sure feels like someone ON the sidelines would have had to deflate them. IN PLAIN VIEW OF ALL THE TV CAMERAS. And to make the PSIs nearly identical.... If they screwed up too much they'd have to INFLATE them...

Seriously, the whole story sounds like Patriot Haters hating their boys got owned by the better team and can't stand how good the Pats have been.

******************

As far as the Super Bowl goes... this whole scandal will work both ways...

Pats thinking "we'll get them just for the fact folks think we cheat."

Seahawks thinking "lets get the cheaters."

The bolded is wrong times 1 million!! The only reason this is a story is because the Pats were caught cheating AGAIN!! Did it affect the outcome of the game? Absolutely not. However, the outrage is over the fact the Pats cheated to win and there was absolutely ZERO reason to fear the Colts. Yet they did fear them enough to cheat.

Please continue to think this is all the work of "Patriot haters", though. It really does amuse me.

There is ZERO evidence that has to date surfaced tying anybody in the Patriots organization to the deflating of footballs, yet, rather than waiting for the investigation to conclude, you have pronounced them cheats.

You would have been such a scream in Salem, circa 1692.

(01-25-2015 08:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:48 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:06 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  ive heard alot of chatter from the patriots but did any one actually say "we did not deflate the ballls, ask anyone else to do it, or are aware of anyone that did it on their own direction." ?

Well, the Patriots have said in the strongest of terms that they as an organization completely complied with all the rules and did nothing wrong. That's a pretty strong position. If you have watched BB in his last two press conferences, it seems pretty clear that he has been the most specific and unambiguous of his entire career.

that is my point. He has used a lot of words that are probably true, but hasnt, as far as i heard, come out with the simple sentence. " I did not deflate the balls. I did not instruct anyone to deflate the balls. Nor did any of the players, coaches and employees of this organization"
Saying we complied with the rules isnt the same thing as saying we did not deflate the balls.
Very often the longer the answer the more likley it isnt totally the truth.

This whole thing could have been over days ago. The Pats destroyed the colts, the balls had noting to do with it.

And if he stated "I didn't deflate the balls", people would be saying "yeah, maybe you didn't, but you extended a wink and nod to someone else doing it." BB is not going to win over the haters, no matter what he says. What he DID say was that no one in the Pats organization broke any rules. Pretty strong statement.

(01-25-2015 10:48 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 08:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:48 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:06 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  ive heard alot of chatter from the patriots but did any one actually say "we did not deflate the ballls, ask anyone else to do it, or are aware of anyone that did it on their own direction." ?

Well, the Patriots have said in the strongest of terms that they as an organization completely complied with all the rules and did nothing wrong. That's a pretty strong position. If you have watched BB in his last two press conferences, it seems pretty clear that he has been the most specific and unambiguous of his entire career.

that is my point. He has used a lot of words that are probably true, but hasnt, as far as i heard, come out with the simple sentence. " I did not deflate the balls. I did not instruct anyone to deflate the balls. Nor did any of the players, coaches and employees of this organization"
Saying we complied with the rules isnt the same thing as saying we did not deflate the balls.
Very often the longer the answer the more likley it isnt totally the truth.

This whole thing could have been over days ago. The Pats destroyed the colts, the balls had noting to do with it.

And if he stated "I didn't deflate the balls", people would be saying "yeah, maybe you didn't, but you extended a wink and nod to someone else doing it." BB is not going to win over the haters, no matter what he says. What he DID say was that no one in the Pats organization broke any rules. Pretty strong statement.

Which is it, BB knew nothing or BB knows everything? You and he expect me to believe that an OCD level coach like BB knew nothing on Thursday and miraculously on Saturday knows everything. BULLSH*T!! He knows who did it, he knows the Patriots broke the rules (despite his claim otherwise) and it took him 2 days to cook up a "plausible explanation".

(01-25-2015 11:14 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 10:48 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 08:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:48 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:06 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  ive heard alot of chatter from the patriots but did any one actually say "we did not deflate the ballls, ask anyone else to do it, or are aware of anyone that did it on their own direction." ?

Well, the Patriots have said in the strongest of terms that they as an organization completely complied with all the rules and did nothing wrong. That's a pretty strong position. If you have watched BB in his last two press conferences, it seems pretty clear that he has been the most specific and unambiguous of his entire career.

that is my point. He has used a lot of words that are probably true, but hasnt, as far as i heard, come out with the simple sentence. " I did not deflate the balls. I did not instruct anyone to deflate the balls. Nor did any of the players, coaches and employees of this organization"
Saying we complied with the rules isnt the same thing as saying we did not deflate the balls.
Very often the longer the answer the more likley it isnt totally the truth.

This whole thing could have been over days ago. The Pats destroyed the colts, the balls had noting to do with it.

And if he stated "I didn't deflate the balls", people would be saying "yeah, maybe you didn't, but you extended a wink and nod to someone else doing it." BB is not going to win over the haters, no matter what he says. What he DID say was that no one in the Pats organization broke any rules. Pretty strong statement.

Which is it, BB knew nothing or BB knows everything? You and he expect me to believe that an OCD level coach like BB knew nothing on Thursday and miraculously on Saturday knows everything. BULLSH*T!! He knows who did it, he knows the Patriots broke the rules (despite his claim otherwise) and it took him 2 days to cook up a "plausible explanation".

There is no evidence of wrongdoing. But the penalty for this (if they were guilty) is a fine.

If the NFL is going to fine them without evidence, the NFL looks like a kangaroo court.

(01-25-2015 11:47 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:14 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 10:48 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 08:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:48 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  Well, the Patriots have said in the strongest of terms that they as an organization completely complied with all the rules and did nothing wrong. That's a pretty strong position. If you have watched BB in his last two press conferences, it seems pretty clear that he has been the most specific and unambiguous of his entire career.

that is my point. He has used a lot of words that are probably true, but hasnt, as far as i heard, come out with the simple sentence. " I did not deflate the balls. I did not instruct anyone to deflate the balls. Nor did any of the players, coaches and employees of this organization"
Saying we complied with the rules isnt the same thing as saying we did not deflate the balls.
Very often the longer the answer the more likley it isnt totally the truth.

This whole thing could have been over days ago. The Pats destroyed the colts, the balls had noting to do with it.

And if he stated "I didn't deflate the balls", people would be saying "yeah, maybe you didn't, but you extended a wink and nod to someone else doing it." BB is not going to win over the haters, no matter what he says. What he DID say was that no one in the Pats organization broke any rules. Pretty strong statement.

Which is it, BB knew nothing or BB knows everything? You and he expect me to believe that an OCD level coach like BB knew nothing on Thursday and miraculously on Saturday knows everything. BULLSH*T!! He knows who did it, he knows the Patriots broke the rules (despite his claim otherwise) and it took him 2 days to cook up a "plausible explanation".

There is no evidence of wrongdoing. But the penalty for this (if they were guilty) is a fine.

If the NFL is going to fine them without evidence, the NFL looks like a kangaroo court.

I have never gone on record advocating a punishment of any kind. Mostly because I don't know what the rulebook (remember that Billy-boy) states the punishment should be.

Whatever it is, the NFL should double it. The arrogance towards following the rules by Bellicheck being the reason.

(01-25-2015 11:14 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 10:48 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 08:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:48 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:06 AM)gosports1 Wrote:  ive heard alot of chatter from the patriots but did any one actually say "we did not deflate the ballls, ask anyone else to do it, or are aware of anyone that did it on their own direction." ?

Well, the Patriots have said in the strongest of terms that they as an organization completely complied with all the rules and did nothing wrong. That's a pretty strong position. If you have watched BB in his last two press conferences, it seems pretty clear that he has been the most specific and unambiguous of his entire career.

that is my point. He has used a lot of words that are probably true, but hasnt, as far as i heard, come out with the simple sentence. " I did not deflate the balls. I did not instruct anyone to deflate the balls. Nor did any of the players, coaches and employees of this organization"
Saying we complied with the rules isnt the same thing as saying we did not deflate the balls.
Very often the longer the answer the more likley it isnt totally the truth.

This whole thing could have been over days ago. The Pats destroyed the colts, the balls had noting to do with it.

And if he stated "I didn't deflate the balls", people would be saying "yeah, maybe you didn't, but you extended a wink and nod to someone else doing it." BB is not going to win over the haters, no matter what he says. What he DID say was that no one in the Pats organization broke any rules. Pretty strong statement.

Which is it, BB knew nothing or BB knows everything? You and he expect me to believe that an OCD level coach like BB knew nothing on Thursday and miraculously on Saturday knows everything. BULLSH*T!! He knows who did it, he knows the Patriots broke the rules (despite his claim otherwise) and it took him 2 days to cook up a "plausible explanation".

BB doesn't know "everything". That's a narrative that all of you Patriots and BB haters have constructed. Is he more attuned to the details than other coaches? Most likely. Does that mean he automatically knew about the air pressure of FBs? Hardly. Come on, the reason why he knew a lot more about it 2 days later is because everyone was talking about it and people like you were accusing him of lying and cheating. Don't you think at that point it behooved him to find out a lot more about the process?

Look, as I have already said. I welcome this investigation. I am glad the NFL has some high powered investigators looking into this as whatever findings result from this will have more credibility. If it is proven that the Patriots lied, then I will be the first to agree that a harsh punishment is required. What I am NOT willing to do is declare them guilty based on NO evidence whatsoever, as all the haters have done, the investigation be damned.

As I referenced above, methinks you would have been a good judge in Salem, MA, circa 1692.

(01-26-2015 08:45 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:14 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 10:48 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 08:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:48 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  Well, the Patriots have said in the strongest of terms that they as an organization completely complied with all the rules and did nothing wrong. That's a pretty strong position. If you have watched BB in his last two press conferences, it seems pretty clear that he has been the most specific and unambiguous of his entire career.

that is my point. He has used a lot of words that are probably true, but hasnt, as far as i heard, come out with the simple sentence. " I did not deflate the balls. I did not instruct anyone to deflate the balls. Nor did any of the players, coaches and employees of this organization"
Saying we complied with the rules isnt the same thing as saying we did not deflate the balls.
Very often the longer the answer the more likley it isnt totally the truth.

This whole thing could have been over days ago. The Pats destroyed the colts, the balls had noting to do with it.

And if he stated "I didn't deflate the balls", people would be saying "yeah, maybe you didn't, but you extended a wink and nod to someone else doing it." BB is not going to win over the haters, no matter what he says. What he DID say was that no one in the Pats organization broke any rules. Pretty strong statement.

Which is it, BB knew nothing or BB knows everything? You and he expect me to believe that an OCD level coach like BB knew nothing on Thursday and miraculously on Saturday knows everything. BULLSH*T!! He knows who did it, he knows the Patriots broke the rules (despite his claim otherwise) and it took him 2 days to cook up a "plausible explanation".

BB doesn't know "everything". That's a narrative that all of you Patriots and BB haters have constructed. Is he more attuned to the details than other coaches? Most likely. Does that mean he automatically knew about the air pressure of FBs? Hardly. Come on, the reason why he knew a lot more about it 2 days later is because everyone was talking about it and people like you were accusing him of lying and cheating. Don't you think at that point it behooved him to find out a lot more about the process?

Look, as I have already said. I welcome this investigation. I am glad the NFL has some high powered investigators looking into this as whatever findings result from this will have more credibility. If it is proven that the Patriots lied, then I will be the first to agree that a harsh punishment is required. What I am NOT willing to do is declare them guilty based on NO evidence whatsoever, as all the haters have done, the investigation be damned.

No evidence? 11 of the 12 Patriots balls were underinflated, none of the Colts balls, in identical environmental conditions, were.

What other evidence do we need that the PATRIOTS underinflated their balls? There's nothing to investigate other than the precise process of HOW they underinflated them, but that they DID underinflate them - and that therefore the Patriots are guilty - is not in question.

And the HOW question is trivial, because regardless of what specific Patriots official deflated the balls and under whose instructions, the team is responsible, as is the coach.

The only thing the NFL needs to do is figure out a punishment - which should be severe and be implemented before this Super Bowl, and negatively affect the Patriots chances of winning the Super Bowl, since the whole point of the deflation was to increase the chances of the Patriots reaching the Super Bowl.

(01-24-2015 12:22 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  Both BB and TB have denied in the strongest terms any involvement in this. They are not stupid people. IF they had any direct or indirect involvement, it would eventually come out, sooner or later.

Bill Belechick also denied any involvement in Spygate. That was proved to be a flat out lie, to the point that Robert Kraft told him if he ever did anything like that again he would be fired on the spot. Does that make him a "stupid" person now?

(01-25-2015 02:22 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  This stuff happens all the time. In the AFC championship game about 10 years ago, the Colts had fake crowd noise pumped through their sound system. I know the Cubs let their infield grass grow to about 6" deep to slow down ground balls when they had elderly and slow infield players.

Of course the difference here is those were not against the rules, and the Cubs had to play in the same conditions.

(01-25-2015 09:14 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Again, defensive players bark out signals to get the offensive line to jump. This happens all the time. Should those players get fined? Suspended? Banned? They're breaking the rules for a competitive advantage ...

You realize his silly you sound right? That is not even against the rules. WTF would they be suspended for? You seem to have a hard time in making these comparisons. You cannot compare a competitive advantage that is actually against the rules, to one that is perfectly legal and within the rules thinking you are making a point.

(01-25-2015 02:48 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 02:28 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  So if there's no advantage to be gained from deflating the footballs, why is there a rule in place? Pats fans can't seem to answer that question. Probably because they know they were caught cheating, then lied about cheating, then lied about lying about cheating.

There is zero proof they "cheated". But if they did, it would not be the first time this happened.

It's very odd to me that your retort is essentially "everybody does it, so it should not matter." Especially considering some of your comments in time about Penn State, and UNC, and other schools who have bent or broken rules.

(01-26-2015 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 08:45 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:14 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 10:48 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 08:44 PM)gosports1 Wrote:  that is my point. He has used a lot of words that are probably true, but hasnt, as far as i heard, come out with the simple sentence. " I did not deflate the balls. I did not instruct anyone to deflate the balls. Nor did any of the players, coaches and employees of this organization"
Saying we complied with the rules isnt the same thing as saying we did not deflate the balls.
Very often the longer the answer the more likley it isnt totally the truth.

This whole thing could have been over days ago. The Pats destroyed the colts, the balls had noting to do with it.

And if he stated "I didn't deflate the balls", people would be saying "yeah, maybe you didn't, but you extended a wink and nod to someone else doing it." BB is not going to win over the haters, no matter what he says. What he DID say was that no one in the Pats organization broke any rules. Pretty strong statement.

Which is it, BB knew nothing or BB knows everything? You and he expect me to believe that an OCD level coach like BB knew nothing on Thursday and miraculously on Saturday knows everything. BULLSH*T!! He knows who did it, he knows the Patriots broke the rules (despite his claim otherwise) and it took him 2 days to cook up a "plausible explanation".

BB doesn't know "everything". That's a narrative that all of you Patriots and BB haters have constructed. Is he more attuned to the details than other coaches? Most likely. Does that mean he automatically knew about the air pressure of FBs? Hardly. Come on, the reason why he knew a lot more about it 2 days later is because everyone was talking about it and people like you were accusing him of lying and cheating. Don't you think at that point it behooved him to find out a lot more about the process?

Look, as I have already said. I welcome this investigation. I am glad the NFL has some high powered investigators looking into this as whatever findings result from this will have more credibility. If it is proven that the Patriots lied, then I will be the first to agree that a harsh punishment is required. What I am NOT willing to do is declare them guilty based on NO evidence whatsoever, as all the haters have done, the investigation be damned.

No evidence? 11 of the 12 Patriots balls were underinflated, none of the Colts balls, in identical environmental conditions, were.

What other evidence do we need that the PATRIOTS underinflated their balls? There's nothing to investigate other than the precise process of HOW they underinflated them, but that they DID underinflate them - and that therefore the Patriots are guilty - is not in question.

And the HOW question is trivial, because regardless of what specific Patriots official deflated the balls and under whose instructions, the team is responsible, as is the coach.

The only thing the NFL needs to do is figure out a punishment - which should be severe and be implemented before this Super Bowl, and negatively affect the Patriots chances of winning the Super Bowl, since the whole point of the deflation was to increase the chances of the Patriots reaching the Super Bowl.

You obviously haven't read a word I have said. Yes, the Pats footballs were under inflated when they were measured at half time. That's ALL we know. As I said above, here are just a few details we don't yet know:

What was the PSI of the Pats footballs when they were measured prior to game time vs. the PSI of the Colts footballs measured prior to the game? (If the Pats footballs were inflated to the minimum 12.5 PSI, then they might be under inflated after several hours I the cold. If the Colts footballs were inflated to the higher pressure - 13.5 PSI - then they could very well still be above specs a couple of hours into the cold.). When were the Colts balls re-weighed?

What was the specific process the refs went through prior to game time, at half time, etc. for BOTH teams?

IF the football balls were adjusted by someone after the fact, who did it? Were the footballs left unattended at any point between their inspection by the referees to game time? Who had access? Were those that had access all interviewed? Could anybody else have had access?

IMO, you want to severally punished the Patriots based on YOUR hatred of them, before any facts can be established. Can you answer the questions I posed above?

Look, as I said above, I am not blindly defending the Pats. If evidence surfaces that they in fact did do this and have lied, then yes, throw the book at them. I will be right there with you in that event. However, to simply declare them "guilty" and demand they be sanctioned with severe punishments based on what we know to date, is one of the dumbest things I have seen stated in these threads. Since I don't think you are dumb, I surmise you are just being driven by your hatred of BB and the Patriots.

(01-26-2015 11:47 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 08:45 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:14 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 10:48 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  And if he stated "I didn't deflate the balls", people would be saying "yeah, maybe you didn't, but you extended a wink and nod to someone else doing it." BB is not going to win over the haters, no matter what he says. What he DID say was that no one in the Pats organization broke any rules. Pretty strong statement.

Which is it, BB knew nothing or BB knows everything? You and he expect me to believe that an OCD level coach like BB knew nothing on Thursday and miraculously on Saturday knows everything. BULLSH*T!! He knows who did it, he knows the Patriots broke the rules (despite his claim otherwise) and it took him 2 days to cook up a "plausible explanation".

BB doesn't know "everything". That's a narrative that all of you Patriots and BB haters have constructed. Is he more attuned to the details than other coaches? Most likely. Does that mean he automatically knew about the air pressure of FBs? Hardly. Come on, the reason why he knew a lot more about it 2 days later is because everyone was talking about it and people like you were accusing him of lying and cheating. Don't you think at that point it behooved him to find out a lot more about the process?

Look, as I have already said. I welcome this investigation. I am glad the NFL has some high powered investigators looking into this as whatever findings result from this will have more credibility. If it is proven that the Patriots lied, then I will be the first to agree that a harsh punishment is required. What I am NOT willing to do is declare them guilty based on NO evidence whatsoever, as all the haters have done, the investigation be damned.

No evidence? 11 of the 12 Patriots balls were underinflated, none of the Colts balls, in identical environmental conditions, were.

What other evidence do we need that the PATRIOTS underinflated their balls? There's nothing to investigate other than the precise process of HOW they underinflated them, but that they DID underinflate them - and that therefore the Patriots are guilty - is not in question.

And the HOW question is trivial, because regardless of what specific Patriots official deflated the balls and under whose instructions, the team is responsible, as is the coach.

The only thing the NFL needs to do is figure out a punishment - which should be severe and be implemented before this Super Bowl, and negatively affect the Patriots chances of winning the Super Bowl, since the whole point of the deflation was to increase the chances of the Patriots reaching the Super Bowl.

You obviously haven't read a word I have said. Yes, the Pats footballs were under inflated when they were measured at half time. That's ALL we know. As I said above, here are just a few details we don't yet know:

What was the PSI of the Pats footballs when they were measured prior to game time vs. the PSI of the Colts footballs measured prior to the game? (If the Pats footballs were inflated to the minimum 12.5 PSI, then they might be under inflated after several hours I the cold. If the Colts footballs were inflated to the higher pressure - 13.5 PSI - then they could very well still be above specs a couple of hours into the cold.). When were the Colts balls re-weighed.

What was the specific process the refs went through prior to game time, at half time, etc. for BOTH teams.

IF the football balls were adjusted by someone after the fact, who did it? Were the footballs left unattended at any point between their inspection by the referees to game time? Who had access? Were those that had access all interviewed? Could anybody else have had access?

IMO, you want to severally punished the Patriots based on YOUR hatred of them, before any facts can be established. Can you answer the questions I posed above?

Look, as I said above, I am not blindly defending the Pats. If evidence surfaces that they in fact did do this and have lied, then yes, throw the book at them. However, to simply declare them "guilty" and sanction them with severe punishments based on what we know to date, is one of the dumbest things I have seen stated in these threads. Since I don't think you are dumb, I surmise you are just being driven by your hatred of BB and the Patriots.

I would also ask if the balls were properly measured for either team prior to the game, or if we are just taking the word of the official who was supposed to carry out this task? If he didn't do his job properly, do we just assume he would own up to it?

I have also heard the argument made that because the Colts' footballs were within spec when measured at halftime, this is further proof of shenanigans on the Pats' part. If it's so easy for a team to surreptitiously adjust the inflation level during the game, how do we know that Luck wasn't using deflated balls for most of the first half? Or for the second half, for that matter (there is no measurement taken at the end of the game). Knowing that they were planning to narc on the Pats at halftime, they wouldn't be stupid enough to fail to reinflate their own balls first.

When the officials discovered the violation at halftime, why didn't they impose a penalty at the time? Could they not have ruled this "unsportsmanlike conduct"? BTW, the NCAA penalty for this offense is 15 yards. Is it less unsportsmanlike to do this in college than it is in the pros?

(01-26-2015 12:03 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 11:47 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 08:45 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:14 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  Which is it, BB knew nothing or BB knows everything? You and he expect me to believe that an OCD level coach like BB knew nothing on Thursday and miraculously on Saturday knows everything. BULLSH*T!! He knows who did it, he knows the Patriots broke the rules (despite his claim otherwise) and it took him 2 days to cook up a "plausible explanation".

BB doesn't know "everything". That's a narrative that all of you Patriots and BB haters have constructed. Is he more attuned to the details than other coaches? Most likely. Does that mean he automatically knew about the air pressure of FBs? Hardly. Come on, the reason why he knew a lot more about it 2 days later is because everyone was talking about it and people like you were accusing him of lying and cheating. Don't you think at that point it behooved him to find out a lot more about the process?

Look, as I have already said. I welcome this investigation. I am glad the NFL has some high powered investigators looking into this as whatever findings result from this will have more credibility. If it is proven that the Patriots lied, then I will be the first to agree that a harsh punishment is required. What I am NOT willing to do is declare them guilty based on NO evidence whatsoever, as all the haters have done, the investigation be damned.

No evidence? 11 of the 12 Patriots balls were underinflated, none of the Colts balls, in identical environmental conditions, were.

What other evidence do we need that the PATRIOTS underinflated their balls? There's nothing to investigate other than the precise process of HOW they underinflated them, but that they DID underinflate them - and that therefore the Patriots are guilty - is not in question.

And the HOW question is trivial, because regardless of what specific Patriots official deflated the balls and under whose instructions, the team is responsible, as is the coach.

The only thing the NFL needs to do is figure out a punishment - which should be severe and be implemented before this Super Bowl, and negatively affect the Patriots chances of winning the Super Bowl, since the whole point of the deflation was to increase the chances of the Patriots reaching the Super Bowl.

You obviously haven't read a word I have said. Yes, the Pats footballs were under inflated when they were measured at half time. That's ALL we know. As I said above, here are just a few details we don't yet know:

What was the PSI of the Pats footballs when they were measured prior to game time vs. the PSI of the Colts footballs measured prior to the game? (If the Pats footballs were inflated to the minimum 12.5 PSI, then they might be under inflated after several hours I the cold. If the Colts footballs were inflated to the higher pressure - 13.5 PSI - then they could very well still be above specs a couple of hours into the cold.). When were the Colts balls re-weighed.

What was the specific process the refs went through prior to game time, at half time, etc. for BOTH teams.

IF the football balls were adjusted by someone after the fact, who did it? Were the footballs left unattended at any point between their inspection by the referees to game time? Who had access? Were those that had access all interviewed? Could anybody else have had access?

IMO, you want to severally punished the Patriots based on YOUR hatred of them, before any facts can be established. Can you answer the questions I posed above?

Look, as I said above, I am not blindly defending the Pats. If evidence surfaces that they in fact did do this and have lied, then yes, throw the book at them. However, to simply declare them "guilty" and sanction them with severe punishments based on what we know to date, is one of the dumbest things I have seen stated in these threads. Since I don't think you are dumb, I surmise you are just being driven by your hatred of BB and the Patriots.

I would also ask if the balls were properly measured for either team prior to the game, or if we are just taking the word of the official who was supposed to carry out this task? If he didn't do his job properly, do we just assume he would own up to it?

I have also heard the argument made that because the Colts' footballs were within spec when measured at halftime, this is further proof of shenanigans on the Pats' part. If it's so easy for a team to surreptitiously adjust the inflation level during the game, how do we know that Luck wasn't using deflated balls for most of the first half? Or for the second half, for that matter (there is no measurement taken at the end of the game). Knowing that they were planning to narc on the Pats at halftime, they wouldn't be stupid enough to fail to reinflate their own balls first.

When the officials discovered the violation at halftime, why didn't they impose a penalty at the time? Could they not have ruled this "unsportsmanlike conduct"? BTW, the NCAA penalty for this offense is 15 yards. Is it less unsportsmanlike to do this in college than it is in the pros?

Ken - I could not have stated my case any better than what you have done here. The whole process involving football inflation is loose to begin with. The footballs can be inflated within a range and the teams get the balls earlier in the game week to "prepare" them as they deem fit. This process alone would seem to guarantee that an issue like this would arise. I wonder how many other times footballs fall outside of the specified ranges?

To your main point, you are right. We don't yet know the details as to how the balls were checked, before during and after the game, for BOTH teams. It also not out of the realm of possibility that the Patriots could have been set up. God knows they have their share of haters.

I am not signing on to ANY explanation or theory as of yet. That's the whole purpose of the investigation. I will wait for the results of the investigation before jumping to conclusions. Something, IMO, all of the haters need to likewise.

Thanks again for a smart post!

(01-26-2015 11:47 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 09:01 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(01-26-2015 08:45 AM)Eagle78 Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 11:14 PM)DefCONNOne Wrote:  

(01-25-2015 10:48 PM)Eagle78 Wrote:  And if he stated "I didn't deflate the balls", people would be saying "yeah, maybe you didn't, but you extended a wink and nod to someone else doing it." BB is not going to win over the haters, no matter what he says. What he DID say was that no one in the Pats organization broke any rules. Pretty strong statement.

Which is it, BB knew nothing or BB knows everything? You and he expect me to believe that an OCD level coach like BB knew nothing on Thursday and miraculously on Saturday knows everything. BULLSH*T!! He knows who did it, he knows the Patriots broke the rules (despite his claim otherwise) and it took him 2 days to cook up a "plausible explanation".

BB doesn't know "everything". That's a narrative that all of you Patriots and BB haters have constructed. Is he more attuned to the details than other coaches? Most likely. Does that mean he automatically knew about the air pressure of FBs? Hardly. Come on, the reason why he knew a lot more about it 2 days later is because everyone was talking about it and people like you were accusing him of lying and cheating. Don't you think at that point it behooved him to find out a lot more about the process?

Look, as I have already said. I welcome this investigation. I am glad the NFL has some high powered investigators looking into this as whatever findings result from this will have more credibility. If it is proven that the Patriots lied, then I will be the first to agree that a harsh punishment is required. What I am NOT willing to do is declare them guilty based on NO evidence whatsoever, as all the haters have done, the investigation be damned.

No evidence? 11 of the 12 Patriots balls were underinflated, none of the Colts balls, in identical environmental conditions, were.

What other evidence do we need that the PATRIOTS underinflated their balls? There's nothing to investigate other than the precise process of HOW they underinflated them, but that they DID underinflate them - and that therefore the Patriots are guilty - is not in question.

And the HOW question is trivial, because regardless of what specific Patriots official deflated the balls and under whose instructions, the team is responsible, as is the coach.

The only thing the NFL needs to do is figure out a punishment - which should be severe and be implemented before this Super Bowl, and negatively affect the Patriots chances of winning the Super Bowl, since the whole point of the deflation was to increase the chances of the Patriots reaching the Super Bowl.

You obviously haven't read a word I have said. Yes, the Pats footballs were under inflated when they were measured at half time. That's ALL we know. As I said above, here are just a few details we don't yet know:

What was the PSI of the Pats footballs when they were measured prior to game time vs. the PSI of the Colts footballs measured prior to the game? (If the Pats footballs were inflated to the minimum 12.5 PSI, then they might be under inflated after several hours I the cold. If the Colts footballs were inflated to the higher pressure - 13.5 PSI - then they could very well still be above specs a couple of hours into the cold.). When were the Colts balls re-weighed?

What was the specific process the refs went through prior to game time, at half time, etc. for BOTH teams?

IF the football balls were adjusted by someone after the fact, who did it? Were the footballs left unattended at any point between their inspection by the referees to game time? Who had access? Were those that had access all interviewed? Could anybody else have had access?

IMO, you want to severally punished the Patriots based on YOUR hatred of them, before any facts can be established. Can you answer the questions I posed above?

Look, as I said above, I am not blindly defending the Pats. If evidence surfaces that they in fact did do this and have lied, then yes, throw the book at them. I will be right there with you in that event. However, to simply declare them "guilty" and demand they be sanctioned with severe punishments based on what we know to date, is one of the dumbest things I have seen stated in these threads. Since I don't think you are dumb, I surmise you are just being driven by your hatred of BB and the Patriots.

I can't speak about you personally, but in my experience, 98% of Patriots fans do blindly defend the Patriots. They are blindly driven by their love of the Patriots (why anyone would love this post-2000 cheating Patriots team is beyond me, but obviously folks up in New England do). They desperately want the Patriots to add a 4th ill-gotten ring to go with the 3 Spygate rings from a decade ago. It is shameless.

As of now, the evidence is clear: 11/12 Patriots balls were underinflated, ZERO Colts balls were. You can speculate about the Patriots balls starting at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.5 all you want, but all that is is pro-Patriots speculation with zero basis in fact.

If later facts emerge that support the Patriots, I will be the first to apologize to that miscreant organization. But as of now, the Patriots are Guilty.

The NFL has tons of money, they can make it a point to check for this sort of thing going forward. Although I'm sure the Patriots would find some other way to cheat.

(01-23-2015 07:31 AM)lofi Wrote:  

(01-22-2015 10:26 PM)LSUtah Wrote:  

(01-22-2015 06:04 PM)Old Blue Wrote:  Frankly, this may be the stupidest sports story I've ever been subjected to. The score was freaking 45-7. The colts didn't lose because of deflated balls. The colts lost because they're a dome team that had to play in really crappy weather, and they couldn't handle it.

THIS!

The score of the Ravens - Pats second round game was 35-31. Perhaps the Ravens should be the team that has an issue. Does anybody really think this is the first time the Pats have done this?

Exactly. I bet the Patriots have been deflating balls ever since 2007

(01-25-2015 02:22 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  This stuff happens all the time. In the AFC championship game about 10 years ago, the Colts had fake crowd noise pumped through their sound system.

Nothing artificial in our noise. Cleared by the NFL:

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/06/sports....html?_r=0