EMU basketball players that had a low post game and a MAC Championship Ring. If this years team wants to finish as a top four seed, we better develop an offense and a low post scorer. I still believe we finish 12-6 in conference, but that may not get us a 1-4 conference tournament seed.

Oh yeah, what is missing from WMUs team? All MAC center with a low post game.

If we have no low post game, then we won't reach our potential as a team. I don't buy this three headed monster rotation, because 1) Our offense does not look to score in the Post. 2) We do not have adequate consistent low post scoring threat.

We need to consider posting up Ward, Okloloji......if not, we may not reach our potential.

Marcus Kennedy was a monster in the low post, Grant Long was all over the place, and Theron Wilson was a puzzle on the offensive end of the floor. He never really was that much of an offensive factor. Perhaps if you remember him you might want to throw Kareem Carpenter into that mix.

I agree 75% with you. The 1998 team which went to the NCAAs, beat ranked UofM and 'Cuse did not have a dominant center. The rest of the team was stellar.

That said, we are getting a lot more out of our PGs, SGs, and SF then from PF and C.

I'm more worried about PF than C. I'm not sure we got any points out of PFs last night. Might be ZERO.

(01-08-2015 01:17 PM)emu steve Wrote:  I agree 75% with you. The 1998 team which went to the NCAAs, beat ranked UofM and 'Cuse did not have a dominant center. The rest of the team was stellar.

That said, we are getting a lot more out of our PGs, SGs, and SF then from PF and C.

I'm more worried about PF than C. I'm not sure we got any points out of PFs last night. Might be ZERO.

Steve, you are correct on Wilson but he had many games where he scored in double figures. Bigger the game, the bigger offensive game he had like when we beat Duke.

Regarding '98 team without Wilson, you have to remember we were playing with two pros (Boykins and Dial). There will be anomalies on my thesis, but you get my point on equating MAC Champs = Low Post Game

(01-08-2015 02:45 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(01-08-2015 01:17 PM)emu steve Wrote:  I agree 75% with you. The 1998 team which went to the NCAAs, beat ranked UofM and 'Cuse did not have a dominant center. The rest of the team was stellar.

That said, we are getting a lot more out of our PGs, SGs, and SF then from PF and C.

I'm more worried about PF than C. I'm not sure we got any points out of PFs last night. Might be ZERO.

Steve, you are correct on Wilson but he had many games where he scored in double figures. Bigger the game, the bigger offensive game he had like when we beat Duke.

Regarding '98 team without Wilson, you have to remember we were playing with two pros (Boykins and Dial). There will be anomalies on my thesis, but you get my point on equating MAC Champs = Low Post Game

What I'm saying and I think you are agreeing, 3 of the 4 examples you cite have dominant big men.

But the 4th case is contrary to the point you are making.

Last time we had good low post offense was with Brandon Bowdry and Justin Dobbins. Both guys could score on the block, and I would kill to have a Bowdry on this team. Dobbins, however, wasn't exactly the best defender. He could still play on this team easily though.

Yet with those two, and a very talented guard in Carlos Medlock, Ramsey could never do better than 8-8 in the conference. So low post game doesn't always bring championships.

how many dominant post players are there in college? how many are there in the pros? not many. the game has changed. more and more big guys get their buckets from shooting, pick n rolls and offensive rebounds.

i agree that offense is a problem with this team and with Murphy in general, but your solution is outdated.

(01-08-2015 02:45 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(01-08-2015 01:17 PM)emu steve Wrote:  I agree 75% with you. The 1998 team which went to the NCAAs, beat ranked UofM and 'Cuse did not have a dominant center. The rest of the team was stellar.

That said, we are getting a lot more out of our PGs, SGs, and SF then from PF and C.

I'm more worried about PF than C. I'm not sure we got any points out of PFs last night. Might be ZERO.

Steve, you are correct on Wilson but he had many games where he scored in double figures. Bigger the game, the bigger offensive game he had like when we beat Duke.

Regarding '98 team without Wilson, you have to remember we were playing with two pros (Boykins and Dial). There will be anomalies on my thesis, but you get my point on equating MAC Champs = Low Post Game

Ohio won the MAC, and went to the Sweet 16, with a perimeter-dominated team. Cooper, Offutt, and Nick Kellogg were the driving forces on that squad. I think your point is a bit too short-sighted.

(01-08-2015 03:48 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  Last time we had good low post offense was with Brandon Bowdry and Justin Dobbins. Both guys could score on the block, and I would kill to have a Bowdry on this team. Dobbins, however, wasn't exactly the best defender. He could still play on this team easily though.

Yet with those two, and a very talented guard in Carlos Medlock, Ramsey could never do better than 8-8 in the conference. So low post game doesn't always bring championships.

Bowdry was great, but he wasnt really a post player. he got a lot of points from catching the ball 10 feet out and driving with his face to the basket.

(01-08-2015 03:52 PM)EMUAARON Wrote:  

(01-08-2015 03:48 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  Last time we had good low post offense was with Brandon Bowdry and Justin Dobbins. Both guys could score on the block, and I would kill to have a Bowdry on this team. Dobbins, however, wasn't exactly the best defender. He could still play on this team easily though.

Yet with those two, and a very talented guard in Carlos Medlock, Ramsey could never do better than 8-8 in the conference. So low post game doesn't always bring championships.

Bowdry was great, but he wasnt really a post player. he got a lot of points from catching the ball 10 feet out and driving with his face to the basket.

True, but he could muscle his way to the basket, and either hit the layup or get fouled (which is what I would kill for right now). I remember him backing people down too, until his senior year when he became Josh Smith and thought he could hit threes. We don't really have anyone like that anymore. Lots of jump shooters. Okoloji showed some spurts earlier in the year, but he's settling for WAYYY too many jumpers lately.

Having a scorer like Bowdry would be the missing link for this team. But any school can say that about past players. Darn.

What Dobbins was a good low post player???? Not good enough because if he were, we would have possibly won the conference.

All of you are missing my point.....Grant Long=Marcus Kennedy=Theron Wilson=Amm MAC Centers=MAC Championship!

Dobbins was OK but not All MAC

Not Amm but ALL MAC

(01-08-2015 04:00 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  What Dobbins was a good low post player???? Not good enough because if he were, we would have possibly won the conference.

All of you are missing my point.....Grant Long=Marcus Kennedy=Theron Wilson=Amm MAC Centers=MAC Championship!

Dobbins was OK but not All MAC

you figured it out! now quick, go tell Murphy that he should recruit some exceptional players. he clearly didnt know.

(01-08-2015 04:00 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  What Dobbins was a good low post player???? Not good enough because if he were, we would have possibly won the conference.

All of you are missing my point.....Grant Long=Marcus Kennedy=Theron Wilson=Amm MAC Centers=MAC Championship!

Dobbins was OK but not All MAC

He averaged 12 points a game on 61% shooting his senior year. He was a good low post player offensively, as I said. Not dominant.

EMU Aaron, I wasn't being critical of you just pointing out that we do not make it a point to prioritize scoring in the post. We have players who could score in the POST but the strategy is not to make it a priority during our offensive sets. Karrington Ward could score down in the POST, but it is not part if the offense. Maybe this is why we don't get the big time MAC offensive recruit at center????

(01-08-2015 04:20 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  EMU Aaron, I wasn't being critical of you just pointing out that we do not make it a point to prioritize scoring in the post. We have players who could score in the POST but the strategy is not to make it a priority during our offensive sets. Karrington Ward could score down in the POST, but it is not part if the offense. Maybe this is why we don't get the big time MAC offensive recruit at center????

What big time MAC offensive recruits are there at center nowadays? This isn't the 90's. More exposure for big guys usually means better offers. Shayne Whittington's and Zeke Marshall's don't come around very often. You gotta get really lucky.

(01-08-2015 04:23 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(01-08-2015 04:20 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  EMU Aaron, I wasn't being critical of you just pointing out that we do not make it a point to prioritize scoring in the post. We have players who could score in the POST but the strategy is not to make it a priority during our offensive sets. Karrington Ward could score down in the POST, but it is not part if the offense. Maybe this is why we don't get the big time MAC offensive recruit at center????

What big time MAC offensive recruits are there at center nowadays? This isn't the 90's. More exposure for big guys usually means better offers. Shayne Whittington's and Zeke Marshall's don't come around very often. You gotta get really lucky.

True the post players are toughest to recruit but if you were a hs center recruit, would you want to play in an offense that has none to little low post scoring? Probably not. Our offense may deter good low post scorers from coming here????

(01-08-2015 04:27 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  

(01-08-2015 04:23 PM)EagleSam Wrote:  

(01-08-2015 04:20 PM)Luckeyone Wrote:  EMU Aaron, I wasn't being critical of you just pointing out that we do not make it a point to prioritize scoring in the post. We have players who could score in the POST but the strategy is not to make it a priority during our offensive sets. Karrington Ward could score down in the POST, but it is not part if the offense. Maybe this is why we don't get the big time MAC offensive recruit at center????

What big time MAC offensive recruits are there at center nowadays? This isn't the 90's. More exposure for big guys usually means better offers. Shayne Whittington's and Zeke Marshall's don't come around very often. You gotta get really lucky.

True the post players are toughest to recruit but if you were a hs center recruit, would you want to play in an offense that has none to little low post scoring? Probably not. Our offense may deter good low post scorers from coming here????

Not sure about that. I think if we had a reliable scoring Center we would see him get more touches. This year we do not really have a scorer in that spot and we did not have one last year because Riley in my opinion was too soft of a player to consistently score inside.

It comes back to what someone earlier mentioned. It is hard to get a Post that is good on both ends of the floor to come to a MAC school because honestly he probably is turning down high major offers to come to yours school - and that's a dumb move .

All of you guys blaming Murphy but how about the players ? Coach only can do so much when your players keep on making knucklehead decisions.

Pretty much the whole first half I found myself thinking "Why is he taking this shot?" "Why is he forcing this layup when the lane is filled with guys?" "Why the pull up three when you have a man advantage?" and so on...

So what I am saying here is yes, maybe the scheme isn't so great but they guys executing were making poor decision all around. Maybe basketball players nowadays lack the floor IQ ? I don't know...

EDIT:

This was supposed to be in the BSU game discussion! Sorry !

(01-08-2015 04:56 PM)realistEagle Wrote:  All of you guys blaming Murphy but how about the players ? Coach only can do so much when your players keep on making knucklehead decisions.

Pretty much the whole first half I found myself thinking "Why is he taking this shot?" "Why is he forcing this layup when the lane is filled with guys?" "Why the pull up three when you have a man advantage?" and so on...

So what I am saying here is yes, maybe the scheme isn't so great but they guys executing were making poor decision all around. Maybe basketball players nowadays lack the floor IQ ? I don't know...

EDIT:

This was supposed to be in the BSU game discussion! Sorry !

Because when the offensive system struggles game after game, it is not the players.