Sadly, I'm in this boat. My wife, kid, and myself all have serious medical problems and Obamacare's rules on company insurance plans might bankrupt me.

Yesterday I was at the hospital for a pre-op check and I asked everyone I could if Obamacare was helping people and to a man and woman they said no. They said the people it was designed to help don't use it or don't have the money to pay the out of pocket costs. Their joke was to invest in insurance companies because they're getting premiums paid to them to take care of poor but they never have to shell out anything because the poor still don't see doctors unless they're dying. Those premiums become pure profit.

In the last year and a half I have not had one medical professional tell me that Obamacare is good for patients, doctors, or the medical industry as a whole - NOT ONE!

Quote:It's a deep and common concern across the USA, where employer plans cover 60% of working-age Americans, or about 150 million people. Coverage long considered the gold standard of health insurance now often requires workers to pay so much out-of-pocket that many feel they must skip doctor visits, put off medical procedures, avoid filling prescriptions and ration pills — much as the uninsured have done.



http://www.usatoday.com/longform/news/na.../19841235/

As I said before. It's going to take years before newly enrolled people get the health habits of those who have always been insured.

(01-03-2015 02:49 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  As I said before. It's going to take years before newly enrolled people get the health habits of those who have always been insured.

Nope. People have always made decisions on doctor visits etc. based on cost and severity of the problem at hand. Those that can't afford health insurance premiums can't afford the deductibles and out of pocket either. They won't start going to doctors now.

(01-03-2015 03:09 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 02:49 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  As I said before. It's going to take years before newly enrolled people get the health habits of those who have always been insured.

Nope. People have always made decisions on doctor visits etc. based on cost and severity of the problem at hand. Those that can't afford health insurance premiums can't afford the deductibles and out of pocket either. They won't start going to doctors now.

What's going to happen is that the poor who qualify for subsidies also qualify for help meeting the deductibles and out-of-pockets. So they can go to docs, and probably will. Who gets screwed is those just above the level for subsides, who have to tote the entire freight, including the deductibles and out-of-pockets. Our whole welfare system is a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the poor. That's why it is so disingenuous for the left to claim to be the friend of working people.

Nothing government ever does works as advertised.

But folks, this was the Affordable Care Act, remember? Give it more time to work its magic...

(01-03-2015 03:37 PM)Owl 69/70/75 Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 03:09 PM)Crebman Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 02:49 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  As I said before. It's going to take years before newly enrolled people get the health habits of those who have always been insured.

Nope. People have always made decisions on doctor visits etc. based on cost and severity of the problem at hand. Those that can't afford health insurance premiums can't afford the deductibles and out of pocket either. They won't start going to doctors now.

What's going to happen is that the poor who qualify for subsidies also qualify for help meeting the deductibles and out-of-pockets. So they can go to docs, and probably will. Who gets screwed is those just above the level for subsides, who have to tote the entire freight, including the deductibles and out-of-pockets. Our whole welfare system is a massive transfer of wealth from the middle class to the poor. That's why it is so disingenuous for the left to claim to be the friend of working people.

This is exactly what is happening. It really doesen't effect those evil rich - they have enough to absorb the increase. It doesn't effect the really poor (Medicaid) or now the semi-poor (pay their premium AND pay their out-of-pocket).

Basically the Democrats hose the lower middle class all the while pretending to champion the little guy. Bullcrap.

The Supreme Court has one more chance to deal a death blow to Barrycare. Hopefully they won't screw it up this time.

(01-03-2015 11:19 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Sadly, I'm in this boat. My wife, kid, and myself all have serious medical problems and Obamacare's rules on company insurance plans might bankrupt me.

Yesterday I was at the hospital for a pre-op check and I asked everyone I could if Obamacare was helping people and to a man and woman they said no. They said the people it was designed to help don't use it or don't have the money to pay the out of pocket costs. Their joke was to invest in insurance companies because they're getting premiums paid to them to take care of poor but they never have to shell out anything because the poor still don't see doctors unless they're dying. Those premiums become pure profit.

In the last year and a half I have not had one medical professional tell me that Obamacare is good for patients, doctors, or the medical industry as a whole - NOT ONE!

Quote:It's a deep and common concern across the USA, where employer plans cover 60% of working-age Americans, or about 150 million people. Coverage long considered the gold standard of health insurance now often requires workers to pay so much out-of-pocket that many feel they must skip doctor visits, put off medical procedures, avoid filling prescriptions and ration pills — much as the uninsured have done.



http://www.usatoday.com/longform/news/na.../19841235/

If you honestly read that USA Today article you might notice that higher deductibles aren't suddenly occurring as a result of the ACA but in fact the % has been steadily rising both in amount and in the % of corporate plans going to them over the last decade or so.

The experts quoted seem to indicate the difficulties we are all experiencing have a lot to do with the recession leading to a lot of companies cutting costs by going to high deductible and high out of pocket policies to help their bottom line and the fact that wages for the middle class have been stagnant for years. The ACA tax on high end policies has also led to some companies scaling back as well.

The point is that the ACA is an easy scapegoat for all things medical, even when something occurred prior to the ACA, but the truth is it is a lot more complicated than that!

(01-03-2015 07:08 PM)usmbacker Wrote:  The Supreme Court has one more chance to deal a death blow to Barrycare. Hopefully they won't screw it up this time.

They'll have other opportunities. No one has standing (yet) to challenge a number of the policies.

Why is this happening? Many patients and doctors blame corporate greed — a view insurers and business leaders reject. Some employers in turn blame the Affordable Care Act, saying it has forced them to pare down generous plans so they don't have to pay a "Cadillac tax" on high-cost coverage in 2018. But health care researchers point to a convergence of trends building for years: the steep rise in deductibles even as premiums stabilize, corporate belt-tightening since the economic downturn and stagnant middle-class wages.

"It's a case of companies trying to offer workers health insurance and still generate profit," said Eric Wright, a professor of sociology and public health at Georgia State University. "But whenever costs go up for the consumers across the board … it promotes a delay in care."

http://www.usatoday.com/longform/news/na...5szwtzfqpv

Quote:Since the ACA took effect, "there's been an accelerated movement" to these types of health plans, says Brian Marcotte, president and chief executive officer of the Washington, D.C.-based Business Group on Health.

Marcotte, whose group represents 400 large employers, says that the looming Cadillac tax is one factor but acknowledged that managing health care costs is another.

But then there is this

Quote:But DeAnn Friedholm, director of health reform for Consumers Union, says she's skeptical when employers point to the ACA. "This isn't new," she says. "Companies have been cutting back on benefits and cutting costs for decades."

and this

Quote:Sara Collins, vice president for Health Care Coverage and Access at the Commonwealth Fund, says two ACA requirements — keeping children under 26 on their parents' plans and covering preventive care — didn't add much to companies' health care tabs, partly because most already covered preventive care such as physicals and mammograms. Pollitz says the ACA actually holds down the consumer burden by capping out-of-pocket expenses at $6,300 a person — which, although that amount is "more than most people have in the bank," is better than no cap at all.

and

Quote:Several experts say the consumer crunch has less to do with the health system overhaul than stagnant salaries. The average hourly wage is nearly identical to what it was 50 years ago in today's dollars: $19.18 in 1964 compared with $20.67 in 2014, according to U.S. Bureau of Labor data analyzed by the Pew Research Center. Meanwhile, U.S. health spending ballooned from 5% of gross domestic product in 1960 to 17% in 2013.

Regardless of the reason for the high deductibles, people who work and pay for their health insurance either as a private policy or via their employer, should not have to pass up on medical care because they can't afford it due to their high deductible.

Not while those who do not work or who have made poor life decisions draw on medicaid or ACA subsidized policies and pay nothing or have very reduced costs for care.

People who can't afford to get medical care because they have high deductibles are paying taxes subsidizing the funding for Medicaid and ACA subsidies.

In what world is that fair???

(01-03-2015 07:08 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 11:19 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Sadly, I'm in this boat. My wife, kid, and myself all have serious medical problems and Obamacare's rules on company insurance plans might bankrupt me.

Yesterday I was at the hospital for a pre-op check and I asked everyone I could if Obamacare was helping people and to a man and woman they said no. They said the people it was designed to help don't use it or don't have the money to pay the out of pocket costs. Their joke was to invest in insurance companies because they're getting premiums paid to them to take care of poor but they never have to shell out anything because the poor still don't see doctors unless they're dying. Those premiums become pure profit.

In the last year and a half I have not had one medical professional tell me that Obamacare is good for patients, doctors, or the medical industry as a whole - NOT ONE!

Quote:It's a deep and common concern across the USA, where employer plans cover 60% of working-age Americans, or about 150 million people. Coverage long considered the gold standard of health insurance now often requires workers to pay so much out-of-pocket that many feel they must skip doctor visits, put off medical procedures, avoid filling prescriptions and ration pills — much as the uninsured have done.



http://www.usatoday.com/longform/news/na.../19841235/

If you honestly read that USA Today article you might notice that higher deductibles aren't suddenly occurring as a result of the ACA but in fact the % has been steadily rising both in amount and in the % of corporate plans going to them over the last decade or so.

The experts quoted seem to indicate the difficulties we are all experiencing have a lot to do with the recession leading to a lot of companies cutting costs by going to high deductible and high out of pocket policies to help their bottom line and the fact that wages for the middle class have been stagnant for years. The ACA tax on high end policies has also led to some companies scaling back as well.

The point is that the ACA is an easy scapegoat for all things medical, even when something occurred prior to the ACA, but the truth is it is a lot more complicated than that!

Dawg, my whole point was that you, me, the world are paying more and getting less all because we're subsidizing insurance for people who will never use it.

(01-03-2015 08:07 PM)mptnstr@44 Wrote:  Regardless of the reason for the high deductibles, people who work and pay for their health insurance either as a private policy or via their employer, should not have to pass up on medical care because they can't afford it due to their high deductible.

Not while those who do not work or who have made poor life decisions draw on medicaid or ACA subsidized policies and pay nothing or have very reduced costs for care.

People who can't afford to get medical care because they have high deductibles are paying taxes subsidizing the funding for Medicaid and ACA subsidies.

In what world is that fair???

Health Care should be affordable for everyone. Blaming the ACA for a private corporation's decisions regarding what they offer their employees is misguided. Blaming the ACA for stagnant wages is misguided. Blaming a blind or mentally disable adult or a five year old child receiving health care under medicaid is what isn't fair.

(01-03-2015 08:17 PM)smn1256 Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 07:08 PM)dawgitall Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 11:19 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Sadly, I'm in this boat. My wife, kid, and myself all have serious medical problems and Obamacare's rules on company insurance plans might bankrupt me.

Yesterday I was at the hospital for a pre-op check and I asked everyone I could if Obamacare was helping people and to a man and woman they said no. They said the people it was designed to help don't use it or don't have the money to pay the out of pocket costs. Their joke was to invest in insurance companies because they're getting premiums paid to them to take care of poor but they never have to shell out anything because the poor still don't see doctors unless they're dying. Those premiums become pure profit.

In the last year and a half I have not had one medical professional tell me that Obamacare is good for patients, doctors, or the medical industry as a whole - NOT ONE!

Quote:It's a deep and common concern across the USA, where employer plans cover 60% of working-age Americans, or about 150 million people. Coverage long considered the gold standard of health insurance now often requires workers to pay so much out-of-pocket that many feel they must skip doctor visits, put off medical procedures, avoid filling prescriptions and ration pills — much as the uninsured have done.



http://www.usatoday.com/longform/news/na.../19841235/

If you honestly read that USA Today article you might notice that higher deductibles aren't suddenly occurring as a result of the ACA but in fact the % has been steadily rising both in amount and in the % of corporate plans going to them over the last decade or so.

The experts quoted seem to indicate the difficulties we are all experiencing have a lot to do with the recession leading to a lot of companies cutting costs by going to high deductible and high out of pocket policies to help their bottom line and the fact that wages for the middle class have been stagnant for years. The ACA tax on high end policies has also led to some companies scaling back as well.

The point is that the ACA is an easy scapegoat for all things medical, even when something occurred prior to the ACA, but the truth is it is a lot more complicated than that!

Dawg, my whole point was that you, me, the world are paying more and getting less all because we're subsidizing insurance for people who will never use it.

Didn't you read the article? It isn't "all because we're subsidizing insurance for people who will never use it." You, me and the rest are paying more for a number of reasons most of which have nothing or little to do with the ACA! Read the article.

Honestly smn I feel your pain. I'm a caregiver for my disabled wife and elderly mother. I deal with insurance and medicare on a daily basis. I've gone into deep debt in an effort to meet my financial obligations to medical facilities and have no equity left in a home I've had for 20 years. At a time I should be paying it off and building up my 401k for retirement I've had to refinance and added 10 more years of house payments. These shrinking benefits have been happening for a couple of decades now. It isn't the ACA that is doing it. In fact in some ways it has made it better. I use to have a lifetime max. that my wife would have met by now otherwise. But on the other hand my FSA max. was reduced as a result of the ACA. Health care is a bear, it was before 2014 and it still it today.

(01-03-2015 11:19 AM)smn1256 Wrote:  Sadly, I'm in this boat. My wife, kid, and myself all have serious medical problems and Obamacare's rules on company insurance plans might bankrupt me.

You and your family are in my prayers.

(01-03-2015 05:11 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Nothing government ever does works as advertised.

Really? People seem pretty happy with social security and Medicare.

(01-04-2015 01:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 05:11 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Nothing government ever does works as advertised.

Really? People seem pretty happy with social security and Medicare.

Do either of those work as advertised given the massive fraud and raiding of the trust fund?

(01-04-2015 01:16 PM)Fitbud Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 05:11 PM)UConn-SMU Wrote:  Nothing government ever does works as advertised.

Really? People seem pretty happy with social security and Medicare.

Evidently you are not a recipient of either. They both are horrible run government programs and those on them badmouth them constantly.