(01-03-2015 10:51 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  But, hey let's judge his entire career at ECU on one game.

Carden is an accurate passer, and East Carolina never lost a game to a losing team with Carden starting.

But he never sniffed a conference title, and was 6-13 as a starter against teams that finished .500 or better including two bowl losses in three years.

A very good college QB. But not great.

(01-03-2015 10:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:51 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 07:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  I hate to say this (because I know i'll inevitably be labeled troll or something) but I was not impressed with Carden. He looked like a deer caught in the headlights. His feet were never set, he threw off his back foot avoiding pressure a lot, he was antsy and not confident at all. Fortunately, that's not all on him, but in part on his O-line. But there's only so much you can do when playing a secondary like UF. I remember one play he was scanning for a good 10 seconds before getting sacked, just trying to find someone open. I think Carden's high numbers are due to the skill and athleticism of the WR's and not so much the QB. He made some pretty poor decisions that were pulled out by the WR's. Of course, the interceptions and the close calls are when he made a mistake and the WR's just couldn't pull it out of the fire for him.

Dude, he had 427 yards passing against a top 10 defense. Ended the seas with 4,736 passing, and 11,991 career passing yards. Completed over 65% of his passing through out his career. There is hardly a QB record at ECU he doesn't own and that's with likes of Jeff Blake, David Garrard, and Marcus Crandell. Yes he has great WR's and he knows more times than not they will win those one on one battles.

The two INTs today were not those one on ones. The pick 6 was double coverage and Hardy cut behind the guy that picked it, where he should have cut in front. The one at the end of the game was all on Shane. But, hey let's judge his entire career at ECU on one game.

Stats are a product of the system, and your pace of play.

Stats don't mean anything in terms of Quarterback skill (see Case Keenum, Timmy Chang, Landry Jones, Rakeem Cato, etc.)

The Wide Receivers saved him multiple times. All else, he looked like a timid deer caught in the headlights of a semi. Also, it's not hard to have a 65% completion rate when you throw 70% slants, screens, comeback routes.

Yeah. He blows ass.

(01-03-2015 11:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:51 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 07:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  I hate to say this (because I know i'll inevitably be labeled troll or something) but I was not impressed with Carden. He looked like a deer caught in the headlights. His feet were never set, he threw off his back foot avoiding pressure a lot, he was antsy and not confident at all. Fortunately, that's not all on him, but in part on his O-line. But there's only so much you can do when playing a secondary like UF. I remember one play he was scanning for a good 10 seconds before getting sacked, just trying to find someone open. I think Carden's high numbers are due to the skill and athleticism of the WR's and not so much the QB. He made some pretty poor decisions that were pulled out by the WR's. Of course, the interceptions and the close calls are when he made a mistake and the WR's just couldn't pull it out of the fire for him.

Dude, he had 427 yards passing against a top 10 defense. Ended the seas with 4,736 passing, and 11,991 career passing yards. Completed over 65% of his passing through out his career. There is hardly a QB record at ECU he doesn't own and that's with likes of Jeff Blake, David Garrard, and Marcus Crandell. Yes he has great WR's and he knows more times than not they will win those one on one battles.

The two INTs today were not those one on ones. The pick 6 was double coverage and Hardy cut behind the guy that picked it, where he should have cut in front. The one at the end of the game was all on Shane. But, hey let's judge his entire career at ECU on one game.

Stats are a product of the system, and your pace of play.

Stats don't mean anything in terms of Quarterback skill (see Case Keenum, Timmy Chang, Landry Jones, Rakeem Cato, etc.)

The Wide Receivers saved him multiple times. All else, he looked like a timid deer caught in the headlights of a semi. Also, it's not hard to have a 65% completion rate when you throw 70% slants, screens, comeback routes.

Yeah. He blows ass.

I didn't say that.

Carden was 3 or 4 plays this year from everyone thinking he was the best thing since slice bread. Unfortunately that was not the case. He was a fine player and represented ECU with class none the less.

(01-03-2015 11:48 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 11:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:51 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 07:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  I hate to say this (because I know i'll inevitably be labeled troll or something) but I was not impressed with Carden. He looked like a deer caught in the headlights. His feet were never set, he threw off his back foot avoiding pressure a lot, he was antsy and not confident at all. Fortunately, that's not all on him, but in part on his O-line. But there's only so much you can do when playing a secondary like UF. I remember one play he was scanning for a good 10 seconds before getting sacked, just trying to find someone open. I think Carden's high numbers are due to the skill and athleticism of the WR's and not so much the QB. He made some pretty poor decisions that were pulled out by the WR's. Of course, the interceptions and the close calls are when he made a mistake and the WR's just couldn't pull it out of the fire for him.

Dude, he had 427 yards passing against a top 10 defense. Ended the seas with 4,736 passing, and 11,991 career passing yards. Completed over 65% of his passing through out his career. There is hardly a QB record at ECU he doesn't own and that's with likes of Jeff Blake, David Garrard, and Marcus Crandell. Yes he has great WR's and he knows more times than not they will win those one on one battles.

The two INTs today were not those one on ones. The pick 6 was double coverage and Hardy cut behind the guy that picked it, where he should have cut in front. The one at the end of the game was all on Shane. But, hey let's judge his entire career at ECU on one game.

Stats are a product of the system, and your pace of play.

Stats don't mean anything in terms of Quarterback skill (see Case Keenum, Timmy Chang, Landry Jones, Rakeem Cato, etc.)

The Wide Receivers saved him multiple times. All else, he looked like a timid deer caught in the headlights of a semi. Also, it's not hard to have a 65% completion rate when you throw 70% slants, screens, comeback routes.

Yeah. He blows ass.

I didn't say that.

Sometimes it's what one fails to say that matters.

(01-03-2015 11:51 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 11:48 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 11:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:51 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  Dude, he had 427 yards passing against a top 10 defense. Ended the seas with 4,736 passing, and 11,991 career passing yards. Completed over 65% of his passing through out his career. There is hardly a QB record at ECU he doesn't own and that's with likes of Jeff Blake, David Garrard, and Marcus Crandell. Yes he has great WR's and he knows more times than not they will win those one on one battles.

The two INTs today were not those one on ones. The pick 6 was double coverage and Hardy cut behind the guy that picked it, where he should have cut in front. The one at the end of the game was all on Shane. But, hey let's judge his entire career at ECU on one game.

Stats are a product of the system, and your pace of play.

Stats don't mean anything in terms of Quarterback skill (see Case Keenum, Timmy Chang, Landry Jones, Rakeem Cato, etc.)

The Wide Receivers saved him multiple times. All else, he looked like a timid deer caught in the headlights of a semi. Also, it's not hard to have a 65% completion rate when you throw 70% slants, screens, comeback routes.

Yeah. He blows ass.

I didn't say that.

Sometimes it's what one fails to say that matters.

So you're both saying, and implying that Shane Carden "blows ass". Just so we're on the same page, because I sure as hell am not.

Kruciff, how many QB's can look "bad" in a game and still throw for 427? Sure we have great WR's. But, there only a few 50/50 balls Shane threw. Most were to open WR's. And, regardless the system he still had to make the reads and throw the ball where our WR's could make a play on it. Shane completed 34 passes to 9 different WR's. You can't honestly say most of those were bad throws that the WR's bailed him out. If so, you are more full of s**t (excuse my language) than UF's Adam Lane. Of the 34 completions 7 maybe 8/9 were 50/50 throws. 3 were to Cam Worthly. And, why not make those throws to a 6'3 WR with a 46 inch vert? Especially when we did to VT and Cam had over 220 yards rec. And, Hardy is Hardy.

(01-03-2015 11:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 11:51 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 11:48 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 11:44 PM)Fo Shizzle Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:59 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  Stats are a product of the system, and your pace of play.

Stats don't mean anything in terms of Quarterback skill (see Case Keenum, Timmy Chang, Landry Jones, Rakeem Cato, etc.)

The Wide Receivers saved him multiple times. All else, he looked like a timid deer caught in the headlights of a semi. Also, it's not hard to have a 65% completion rate when you throw 70% slants, screens, comeback routes.

Yeah. He blows ass.

I didn't say that.

Sometimes it's what one fails to say that matters.

So you're both saying, and implying that Shane Carden "blows ass". Just so we're on the same page, because I sure as hell am not.

You made your opinion of Carden very clear in 2 posts in this thread.

(01-03-2015 10:20 PM)Chappy Wrote:  If I were ranking ECU quarterbacks that I've seen, I'd put him behind David Garrard and Jeff Blake. I'd take him over Dominique Davis because I think Carden protected the football better than Davis, though occasionally he would do setting head-scratch-worthy with the ball.

Not sure if I'd put him ahead of James Pinkney, a hell of a QB who had the misfortune on playing on some terrible ECU squads.

That said, I tip my cap to Captain Carden, a fine QB who gave a lot to our university.

Thought you were talking about Patrick Pinkney for a second and was like WTF? But yeah James was pretty good

(01-04-2015 11:07 AM)DowdyPirate Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:20 PM)Chappy Wrote:  If I were ranking ECU quarterbacks that I've seen, I'd put him behind David Garrard and Jeff Blake. I'd take him over Dominique Davis because I think Carden protected the football better than Davis, though occasionally he would do setting head-scratch-worthy with the ball.

Not sure if I'd put him ahead of James Pinkney, a hell of a QB who had the misfortune on playing on some terrible ECU squads.

That said, I tip my cap to Captain Carden, a fine QB who gave a lot to our university.

Thought you were talking about Patrick Pinkney for a second and was like WTF? But yeah James was pretty good

It's amazing that, with all the QBs we've had in that late 90s and throughout the 2000s, the only one with championships is Patrick.

(01-03-2015 04:07 PM)TheEastisPurple Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 03:50 PM)DowdyPirate Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 02:05 PM)TheEastisPurple Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 01:20 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  Carden led ECU to glory with wins over UNC (twice), NC St and Va Tech. And one bowl win over Ohio. But no conference titles. No CUSA division titles.

A loss today drops his bowl record to 1-2. Time for him to step up and be a senior.

Hard for him to do when we decide to take him out at the 5 yard line and put in his backup, who has played a handful of snaps in his college career, so he can fumble the ball away. The interception was bad but other than that he is completing 63% of his passes and has over 200 yards at halftime. Unless he can play DB I don't know what he could have done differently to accomplish some of those goals that the team hasn't reached while he was here.

Wasn't a fumble. Completely agree with the idea to add a second dimension in the redzone, but we got them, and should've handed it off on the second one.

Yup the plan worked pretty well but running the play again didn't.

I'm sure I'm just overly critical of my own team but it seems like when we lose we find all kinds of crazy ways to do so.

Our trick plays (if you don't count the Benkert run as a trick play) went 0-fer today. Sometimes I wish we would just line up and run our offense instead of completely abandoning the run or running trick plays. Oh well just didn't have quite enough today. Looking forward to next year.

Please please let us have a kicker and a secondary!

We had so many opportunities in this game in the red zone to turn the game around and win. It kinda was a fitting end for the season. We left a lot of points on the field in several games due to this..and at least 3 losses due to it. Maybe it is play calling....maybe personnel...maybe a combination of both. Whatever it is? It should be at the top of our coaching staffs "to do list". Looking back on the season, we were 3 to 4 plays from an outstanding year. Mark this one down as "the year that could have been". I hope the staff uses this as an incentive to the players to correct the few problems we had. Im still proud of the team regardless.

(01-04-2015 11:17 AM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  

(01-04-2015 11:07 AM)DowdyPirate Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:20 PM)Chappy Wrote:  If I were ranking ECU quarterbacks that I've seen, I'd put him behind David Garrard and Jeff Blake. I'd take him over Dominique Davis because I think Carden protected the football better than Davis, though occasionally he would do setting head-scratch-worthy with the ball.

Not sure if I'd put him ahead of James Pinkney, a hell of a QB who had the misfortune on playing on some terrible ECU squads.

That said, I tip my cap to Captain Carden, a fine QB who gave a lot to our university.

Thought you were talking about Patrick Pinkney for a second and was like WTF? But yeah James was pretty good

It's amazing that, with all the QBs we've had in that late 90s and throughout the 2000s, the only one with championships is Patrick.

As an old timer, my favorite was Mike Weaver. I never saw before or since any player run the triple option better than him. I miss those teams and that style of play.

(01-03-2015 10:20 PM)Chappy Wrote:  If I were ranking ECU quarterbacks that I've seen, I'd put him behind David Garrard and Jeff Blake. I'd take him over Dominique Davis because I think Carden protected the football better than Davis, though occasionally he would do setting head-scratch-worthy with the ball.

Not sure if I'd put him ahead of James Pinkney, a hell of a QB who had the misfortune on playing on some terrible ECU squads.

That said, I tip my cap to Captain Carden, a fine QB who gave a lot to our university.

I would put Carden ahead of James Pinkney, but I would not put Carden ahead of Dominque Davis; because if Davis played with the offensive line and running backs that Carden had then Davis would have been down right scary. As it is Davis has the ECU single season touchdown record at 37; the NCAA consecutive completion record of 26 straight passes the NCAA multigame consecutive completion record of 36 straight passes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominique_Davis

I love what Carden has done for us but remember, he did all of that as a sparsely offered HS player. Maybe the system gave him a specific advantage that he wouldn't have anywhere else.

That was also the case with most of his teammates. We are coming into a day of better recruited players, with a better supporting cast coming for the next QB. I see better things on the horizon for Benkert.

(01-03-2015 10:51 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 07:08 PM)Kruciff Wrote:  I hate to say this (because I know i'll inevitably be labeled troll or something) but I was not impressed with Carden. He looked like a deer caught in the headlights. His feet were never set, he threw off his back foot avoiding pressure a lot, he was antsy and not confident at all. Fortunately, that's not all on him, but in part on his O-line. But there's only so much you can do when playing a secondary like UF. I remember one play he was scanning for a good 10 seconds before getting sacked, just trying to find someone open. I think Carden's high numbers are due to the skill and athleticism of the WR's and not so much the QB. He made some pretty poor decisions that were pulled out by the WR's. Of course, the interceptions and the close calls are when he made a mistake and the WR's just couldn't pull it out of the fire for him.

Dude, he had 427 yards passing against a top 10 defense. Ended the seas with 4,736 passing, and 11,991 career passing yards. Completed over 65% of his passing through out his career. There is hardly a QB record at ECU he doesn't own and that's with likes of Jeff Blake, David Garrard, and Marcus Crandell. Yes he has great WR's and he knows more times than not they will win those one on one battles.

The two INTs today were not those one on ones. The pick 6 was double coverage and Hardy cut behind the guy that picked it, where he should have cut in front. The one at the end of the game was all on Shane. But, hey let's judge his entire career at ECU on one game.

He doesn't own the single season ECU touchdown record of 37 nor does he own the NCAA single game consecutive completion record of 26 and NCAA multigame consecutive completion record of 36. Dominque Davis owns those and I would put Crandell, Carden and James Pinkney behind Davis.

(01-03-2015 11:03 PM)CougarRed Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:51 PM)ecumbh1999 Wrote:  But, hey let's judge his entire career at ECU on one game.

Carden is an accurate passer, and East Carolina never lost a game to a losing team with Carden starting.

But he never sniffed a conference title, and was 6-13 as a starter against teams that finished .500 or better including two bowl losses in three years.

A very good college QB. But not great.

Telling stat.

(01-04-2015 11:32 AM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(01-03-2015 10:20 PM)Chappy Wrote:  If I were ranking ECU quarterbacks that I've seen, I'd put him behind David Garrard and Jeff Blake. I'd take him over Dominique Davis because I think Carden protected the football better than Davis, though occasionally he would do setting head-scratch-worthy with the ball.

Not sure if I'd put him ahead of James Pinkney, a hell of a QB who had the misfortune on playing on some terrible ECU squads.

That said, I tip my cap to Captain Carden, a fine QB who gave a lot to our university.

I would put Carden ahead of James Pinkney, but I would not put Carden ahead of Dominque Davis; because if Davis played with the offensive line and running backs that Carden had then Davis would have been down right scary. As it is Davis has the ECU single season touchdown record at 37; the NCAA consecutive completion record of 26 straight passes the NCAA multigame consecutive completion record of 36 straight passes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominique_Davis

These are all QBs under different circumstances. James Pinkney had Chris Johnson when he was no more than a good special teamer, he didn't have Harris, the defense we remember from Skip's days were just Freshmen and Sophomores. I think James Pinkney would've really made a mark if he had the tools that Patrick had.

Davis is iffy. He didn't have a crazy amount of tools, but that guy threw more pick 6s than anyone I've ever seen.

(01-04-2015 12:11 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Davis is iffy. He didn't have a crazy amount of tools, but that guy threw more pick 6s than anyone I've ever seen.

Davis also had the worst offensive line and running backs than any of those other quarterbacks; so ECU had no other way to score except by Davis slinging it. You remember Adam Elsawi. Davis was also quarterback when ECU had their worst defenses

(01-04-2015 04:00 PM)PirateMarv Wrote:  

(01-04-2015 12:11 PM)nomad2u2001 Wrote:  Davis is iffy. He didn't have a crazy amount of tools, but that guy threw more pick 6s than anyone I've ever seen.

Davis also had the worst offensive line and running backs than any of those other quarterbacks; so ECU had no other way to score except by Davis slinging it. You remember Adam Elsawi. Davis was also quarterback when ECU had their worst defenses

Elsawi played with Carden too.

Sacks Allowed per game
D. Davis
2010: 1.15
2011: 2.50
S. Carden
2012: 2.55
2013: 2.31
2014: 2.46


Also both years D.Davis was here, his top 2 receivers were future NFL players

2010: Dwayne Harris, Lance Lewis
2011: Lance Lewis, Justin Hardy


I don't know which is better. I would probably give D. Davis a slight edge but it's not like he was throwing and catching the ball while blocking for himself while Carden could just sit in the pocket for days and just flip the ball out somewhere and it would magically get caught. That's miss-remembering. Carden did have more weapons but Davis did have a couple playmakers.

The defense thing is true but I'm not sure how much it affected stats. It's not like this defense has gotten an abundance of short fields for Carden.

Carden was definitely better at taking care of the ball. 86 TD's to 30 INTs. While Davis had 62 TDs to 35 INTs.