SCHOOLS THAT WANT BE LEFT BEHIND:
BYU, Cincinnati, Connecticut, UCF, South Florida, Houston, Memphis, East Carolina, San Diego State, Fresno State, Colorado State, Boise State, and UTEP.
Also Army, Navy, and Air Force if they want to join to much history, national following, and government support / backlash if they are left behind.
Also imagine private schools of SMU, Tulane, Tulsa, and Rice will be given a chance. Need some academics.

Next line: Louisiana, Temple, New Mexico, Wyoming, and Utah State. All have been playing at the highest level since they started playing football and have been playing for over 100 years.

(12-22-2014 09:47 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:36 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 08:41 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Aren't eight votes necessary to dissolve the Big XII? In that case West Virginia, Baylor, and Iowa State will gladly split the Big 12's exit fees from the 7 departing members, and invite the remaining 11 AAC members plus BYU and UMass. Of course if the payouts are like they are today, the Big 12 leaves Navy and Temple behind and invites the other 9 schools left in the AAC.

If the Big XII is dissolved by the vote of eight schools there are no exit fees. No GoR. Nothing.

The only way the Big 12 is dissolved is if the other nine schools decide they want to get rid of Texas. What do you think are the chances of that happening?

Well, here is why they would. Imagine knowing that in ten years there is going to be a major flood and you know it. You live in an extremely nice home on the coast. You know there is nothing you can do at that site to protect it from what is coming. Do you just coast through the next ten years because you don't want to face what is coming or do you take the advanced warning and start making plans?

If Texas wants out, they will be able to do so when the GoR ends. When that happens, all bets are off, nothing can be promised to the other teams.

On the other hand, if they make a deal now so that Texas can move on sooner then Texas can negotiate for everyone so that everyone gets a safe landing place in a major conference. If it happens now then everyone gets to make more money for the 6-8 years after the move happens that would still be during the time of the GoR if the Big 12 doesn't dissolve.

All the other conferences make more money, they don't do this unless they make more money so it is a given that if this happens then they are making more money because of it.


So, the short answer, it actually is more beneficial for them to work out a deal for everyone right now rather than wait ten years and fend for themselves.

(12-22-2014 04:43 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 04:34 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  I don't know what to tell anyone that thinks a conference that lost four members, rushed to replace them with two, has at least one of it's top programs (if not more) openly looking for exit opportunities, and is stubborn about expansion in spite of being left out of the playoffs is a stable conference. I really just don't know what to say. The writing isn't just on the wall, there's a big damn neon sign saying "IMPLOSION PENDING"...

Call me when the implosion happens. But not before.

I don't understand why this topic aggravates you. If it happens then WVU ends up in either the SEC or the ACC. Either one is a better home for WVU than the big 12 is.

Not necessarily

There's no gurantee the SEC or ACC would want any of the Big 12 leftovers if UT/OU/KU find home elsewhere. None of the leftovers may be worth expansion to 16.

(12-22-2014 07:08 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Not necessarily

There's no gurantee the SEC or ACC would want any of the Big 12 leftovers if UT/OU/KU find home elsewhere. None of the leftovers may be worth expansion to 16.

I don't understand why the concept of all or nothing is lost on so many people.

If they don't then nothing happens, period. These people are not waiting for the Big 12 GoR to end. The money is dangling right out in front of them.

Conference Tournaments are worth it. Moving to four divisions for stronger divisional rivalries is worth it. Having four major conferences instead of five is worth it to the conferences in terms of improving their negotiations with the Networks.

It is worth it to the Networks because they get greater divisional rivalries, conference tournaments and more worthy conference champions to push forward for a National Playoff.

It is almost like repeating the same list when it comes to pluses for the conferences and pluses for the Networks. When that happens, it makes it very likely that such an event happens.

(12-22-2014 06:53 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:47 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:36 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 08:41 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Aren't eight votes necessary to dissolve the Big XII? In that case West Virginia, Baylor, and Iowa State will gladly split the Big 12's exit fees from the 7 departing members, and invite the remaining 11 AAC members plus BYU and UMass. Of course if the payouts are like they are today, the Big 12 leaves Navy and Temple behind and invites the other 9 schools left in the AAC.

If the Big XII is dissolved by the vote of eight schools there are no exit fees. No GoR. Nothing.

The only way the Big 12 is dissolved is if the other nine schools decide they want to get rid of Texas. What do you think are the chances of that happening?

Well, here is why they would. Imagine knowing that in ten years there is going to be a major flood and you know it. You live in an extremely nice home on the coast. You know there is nothing you can do at that site to protect it from what is coming. Do you just coast through the next ten years because you don't want to face what is coming or do you take the advanced warning and start making plans?

If Texas wants out, they will be able to do so when the GoR ends. When that happens, all bets are off, nothing can be promised to the other teams.

On the other hand, if they make a deal now so that Texas can move on sooner then Texas can negotiate for everyone so that everyone gets a safe landing place in a major conference. If it happens now then everyone gets to make more money for the 6-8 years after the move happens that would still be during the time of the GoR if the Big 12 doesn't dissolve.

All the other conferences make more money, they don't do this unless they make more money so it is a given that if this happens then they are making more money because of it.


So, the short answer, it actually is more beneficial for them to work out a deal for everyone right now rather than wait ten years and fend for themselves.

That only works if you believe there is a chance that everyone could find a safe landing place. I don't believe that they could. My premise regarding dissolution was that the other nine schools might want to remain together - just without Texas. That's why I believe the Big 12 will not dissolve (because their media partners won't allow that).

Texas is in a tricky spot right now, because if they were to continue to be less than impressive on the field for the duration of the current GoR, their leverage with any other conference - and therefore with their current conference - could be significantly diminished. And their media partners are liable to try to force that issue before the GoR expires. They need to start winning again, and soon.

(12-22-2014 09:55 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  There's a little piece of legislation in Oklahoma that won't allow OU to go anywhere without OSU. Don't think your scenario has the slightest of ever happening when it comes to OU unless it's OU & OSU to SEC country which has some plausibility. PAC 12 is never going to take TTU without Texas simple as that, and never will accept TCU because of religious affiliation and the same for OSU and Kansas State, there just not PAC material .

Who does the PAC go after if Texas isn't in the mix? Fortunately, the PAC 12 has a TV network that needs some help with viewership. Adding Texas, the state will help them immensely.

Without the cash cow in Austin, who can deliver the state of Texas and its TV viewers?

Tech fans have shown that they will show up regardless of the opponent and we get decent TV ratings across the state.

The UH admin is doing everything in their power to get a P5 seat but will the fans show up/watch when Oregon St, Washington St and Cal come to town? Its easy to show up for USC and Oregon.

Honestly, its a non-issue because UH has been told by PAC 12 officials what they need to do to gain membership. I guess its possible that a school (TX Tech) that has thousands upon thousands of dedicated fans and some of the best facilities in the country be relegated to the MWC.

I hope our leaders are working as hard as the UH Chancellor. Our small TV market and small "regional" fan base could hold us back.

(12-22-2014 08:21 PM)RaiderRed Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:55 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  There's a little piece of legislation in Oklahoma that won't allow OU to go anywhere without OSU. Don't think your scenario has the slightest of ever happening when it comes to OU unless it's OU & OSU to SEC country which has some plausibility. PAC 12 is never going to take TTU without Texas simple as that, and never will accept TCU because of religious affiliation and the same for OSU and Kansas State, there just not PAC material .

Who does the PAC go after if Texas isn't in the mix? Fortunately, the PAC 12 has a TV network that needs some help with viewership. Adding Texas, the state will help them immensely.

Without the cash cow in Austin, who can deliver the state of Texas and its TV viewers?

Tech fans have shown that they will show up regardless of the opponent and we get decent TV ratings across the state.

The UH admin is doing everything in their power to get a P5 seat but will the fans show up/watch when Oregon St, Washington St and Cal come to town? Its easy to show up for USC and Oregon.

Honestly, its a non-issue because UH has been told by PAC 12 officials what they need to do to gain membership. I guess its possible that a school (TX Tech) that has thousands upon thousands of dedicated fans and some of the best facilities in the country be relegated to the MWC.

I hope our leaders are working as hard as the UH Chancellor. Our small TV market and small "regional" fan base could hold us back.

I'll have to say Tech has does more with less than any other school I know of, I wouldn't count them out it may be TTU & UH to the PAC one day, you never know they want 2 from Texas just what 2 if one of them not BEVO

(12-22-2014 07:52 PM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 06:53 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:47 AM)ken d Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:36 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 08:41 PM)chargeradio Wrote:  Aren't eight votes necessary to dissolve the Big XII? In that case West Virginia, Baylor, and Iowa State will gladly split the Big 12's exit fees from the 7 departing members, and invite the remaining 11 AAC members plus BYU and UMass. Of course if the payouts are like they are today, the Big 12 leaves Navy and Temple behind and invites the other 9 schools left in the AAC.

If the Big XII is dissolved by the vote of eight schools there are no exit fees. No GoR. Nothing.

The only way the Big 12 is dissolved is if the other nine schools decide they want to get rid of Texas. What do you think are the chances of that happening?

Well, here is why they would. Imagine knowing that in ten years there is going to be a major flood and you know it. You live in an extremely nice home on the coast. You know there is nothing you can do at that site to protect it from what is coming. Do you just coast through the next ten years because you don't want to face what is coming or do you take the advanced warning and start making plans?

If Texas wants out, they will be able to do so when the GoR ends. When that happens, all bets are off, nothing can be promised to the other teams.

On the other hand, if they make a deal now so that Texas can move on sooner then Texas can negotiate for everyone so that everyone gets a safe landing place in a major conference. If it happens now then everyone gets to make more money for the 6-8 years after the move happens that would still be during the time of the GoR if the Big 12 doesn't dissolve.

All the other conferences make more money, they don't do this unless they make more money so it is a given that if this happens then they are making more money because of it.


So, the short answer, it actually is more beneficial for them to work out a deal for everyone right now rather than wait ten years and fend for themselves.

That only works if you believe there is a chance that everyone could find a safe landing place. I don't believe that they could. My premise regarding dissolution was that the other nine schools might want to remain together - just without Texas. That's why I believe the Big 12 will not dissolve (because their media partners won't allow that).

Texas is in a tricky spot right now, because if they were to continue to be less than impressive on the field for the duration of the current GoR, their leverage with any other conference - and therefore with their current conference - could be significantly diminished. And their media partners are liable to try to force that issue before the GoR expires. They need to start winning again, and soon.

Notre Dame has been very mediocre for about 20 of the last 21 years, ever since Holtz left. They're still the most attractive program out there for TV.

(12-22-2014 12:36 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 11:24 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:55 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 08:21 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  So to be honest on what I think is going to happen. I think the big 12 imploded. There will be only the P4. Each P4 champion makes the four team playoff. The G5 schools are fornicated.

So what happens to Big 12? Well:

Texas and Oklahoma become SEC 15 and 16, respectively.

Kansas and UConn become Big 10 15 and 16, respectively.

Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU and Kansas State become PAC 12 13, 14, 15 and 16, respectively.

Notre Dame and Cincinnati become ACC 15 and 16.

4x16 = 64 team P4.

West Virginia, Baylor and Iowa State , respectively.
the American.

The American:

UMass
Temple
West Virginia
East Carolina
Central Florida
South Florida
Memphis
Tulane
Tulsa
SMU
Houston
Baylor

There's a little piece of legislation in Oklahoma that won't allow OU to go anywhere without OSU.

I once spent several hours looking for such legislation. It does not exist. The leadership at both schools say it does not exist. They also say the relationship is familial.

If you can find evidence of this legislation, please post it.

I'll eat crow. You know what, I looked to and I found no state statue either saying anything of a a sort on them being inseparable, that will teach me to spout off CFBB, stuff and taking it at face value, a lot of people seem to believe this, but it's not true, I was unable to find anything referencing anything of kind, unless someone else can enlightened the situation. One thing I do know the Governor does have the final say about both universities. Maybe that's why so many believe it's Oklahoma legislative statue.

I have seen the pres of OU on tv make that statement that they would not be allowed to make a move that does not include osu.

Dont you have a very similar political situation in Texas between UT and Baylor?

(12-22-2014 09:52 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 12:36 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 11:24 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:55 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 08:21 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  So to be honest on what I think is going to happen. I think the big 12 imploded. There will be only the P4. Each P4 champion makes the four team playoff. The G5 schools are fornicated.

So what happens to Big 12? Well:

Texas and Oklahoma become SEC 15 and 16, respectively.

Kansas and UConn become Big 10 15 and 16, respectively.

Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU and Kansas State become PAC 12 13, 14, 15 and 16, respectively.

Notre Dame and Cincinnati become ACC 15 and 16.

4x16 = 64 team P4.

West Virginia, Baylor and Iowa State , respectively.
the American.

The American:

UMass
Temple
West Virginia
East Carolina
Central Florida
South Florida
Memphis
Tulane
Tulsa
SMU
Houston
Baylor

There's a little piece of legislation in Oklahoma that won't allow OU to go anywhere without OSU.

I once spent several hours looking for such legislation. It does not exist. The leadership at both schools say it does not exist. They also say the relationship is familial.

If you can find evidence of this legislation, please post it.

I'll eat crow. You know what, I looked to and I found no state statue either saying anything of a a sort on them being inseparable, that will teach me to spout off CFBB, stuff and taking it at face value, a lot of people seem to believe this, but it's not true, I was unable to find anything referencing anything of kind, unless someone else can enlightened the situation. One thing I do know the Governor does have the final say about both universities. Maybe that's why so many believe it's Oklahoma legislative statue.

I have seen the pres of OU on tv make that statement that they would not be allowed to make a move that does not include osu.

Dont you have a very similar political situation in Texas between UT and Baylor?

Tech likes to say they do and the Big 10 said there was a "Tech" problem but don't see it anymore. Legislators just don't care

(12-22-2014 09:52 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  Dont you have a very similar political situation in Texas between UT and Baylor?

Large public state flagship school vs small private with no public funding: Who do you think wins?

(12-22-2014 09:56 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Tech likes to say they do and the Big 10 said there was a "Tech" problem but don't see it anymore. Legislators just don't care

Texas has left Texas Tech and A&M behind. Texas is looking for better partners in the state who will agree to home/away games on the LHN.

I guess they need willing partners who will take 1/16th of all network generated $$$ and agree to all games being aired on the LHN.

Just goofing off but TX legislators will care when Tech fans remember to vote for their opponent in the next election. It happened in the 50's when Tech fans boycotted Neiman Marcus in Dallas.

(12-22-2014 10:39 PM)RaiderRed Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:56 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Tech likes to say they do and the Big 10 said there was a "Tech" problem but don't see it anymore. Legislators just don't care

Texas has left Texas Tech and A&M behind. Texas is looking for better partners in the state who will agree to home/away games on the LHN.

I guess they need willing partners who will take 1/16th of all network generated $$$ and agree to all games being aired on the LHN.

Just goofing off but TX legislators will care when Tech fans remember to vote for their opponent in the next election. It happened in the 50's when Tech fans boycotted Neiman Marcus in Dallas.

This is not the 50's and Texas will call in their marker with A&M for leaving them for the SEC

(12-22-2014 10:40 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 10:39 PM)RaiderRed Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:56 PM)Pony94 Wrote:  Tech likes to say they do and the Big 10 said there was a "Tech" problem but don't see it anymore. Legislators just don't care

Texas has left Texas Tech and A&M behind. Texas is looking for better partners in the state who will agree to home/away games on the LHN.

I guess they need willing partners who will take 1/16th of all network generated $$$ and agree to all games being aired on the LHN.

Just goofing off but TX legislators will care when Tech fans remember to vote for their opponent in the next election. It happened in the 50's when Tech fans boycotted Neiman Marcus in Dallas.

This is not the 50's and Texas will call in their marker with A&M for leaving them for the SEC

Fans keep saying that but they haven't left that little small regional school out in West Texas just yet.

I bet Texas partners with SMU.

(12-22-2014 09:52 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 12:36 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 11:24 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:55 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(12-21-2014 08:21 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  So to be honest on what I think is going to happen. I think the big 12 imploded. There will be only the P4. Each P4 champion makes the four team playoff. The G5 schools are fornicated.

So what happens to Big 12? Well:

Texas and Oklahoma become SEC 15 and 16, respectively.

Kansas and UConn become Big 10 15 and 16, respectively.

Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, TCU and Kansas State become PAC 12 13, 14, 15 and 16, respectively.

Notre Dame and Cincinnati become ACC 15 and 16.

4x16 = 64 team P4.

West Virginia, Baylor and Iowa State , respectively.
the American.

The American:

UMass
Temple
West Virginia
East Carolina
Central Florida
South Florida
Memphis
Tulane
Tulsa
SMU
Houston
Baylor

There's a little piece of legislation in Oklahoma that won't allow OU to go anywhere without OSU.

I once spent several hours looking for such legislation. It does not exist. The leadership at both schools say it does not exist. They also say the relationship is familial.

If you can find evidence of this legislation, please post it.

I'll eat crow. You know what, I looked to and I found no state statue either saying anything of a a sort on them being inseparable, that will teach me to spout off CFBB, stuff and taking it at face value, a lot of people seem to believe this, but it's not true, I was unable to find anything referencing anything of kind, unless someone else can enlightened the situation. One thing I do know the Governor does have the final say about both universities. Maybe that's why so many believe it's Oklahoma legislative statue.

I have seen the pres of OU on tv make that statement that they would not be allowed to make a move that does not include osu.

Dont you have a very similar political situation in Texas between UT and Baylor?

Simple answer is no.

(12-22-2014 10:51 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:52 PM)Thegoldstandard Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 12:36 PM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 11:24 AM)lew240z Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 09:55 AM)BIgCatonProwl Wrote:  There's a little piece of legislation in Oklahoma that won't allow OU to go anywhere without OSU.

I once spent several hours looking for such legislation. It does not exist. The leadership at both schools say it does not exist. They also say the relationship is familial.

If you can find evidence of this legislation, please post it.

I'll eat crow. You know what, I looked to and I found no state statue either saying anything of a a sort on them being inseparable, that will teach me to spout off CFBB, stuff and taking it at face value, a lot of people seem to believe this, but it's not true, I was unable to find anything referencing anything of kind, unless someone else can enlightened the situation. One thing I do know the Governor does have the final say about both universities. Maybe that's why so many believe it's Oklahoma legislative statue.

I have seen the pres of OU on tv make that statement that they would not be allowed to make a move that does not include osu.

Dont you have a very similar political situation in Texas between UT and Baylor?

Simple answer is no.

Yep, Texas taxpayers do not fund Baylor. They fund Texas, Texas Tech, Texas A&M, UH etc.

(12-22-2014 07:12 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 07:08 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Not necessarily

There's no gurantee the SEC or ACC would want any of the Big 12 leftovers if UT/OU/KU find home elsewhere. None of the leftovers may be worth expansion to 16.

I don't understand why the concept of all or nothing is lost on so many people.

If they don't then nothing happens, period. These people are not waiting for the Big 12 GoR to end. The money is dangling right out in front of them.

Conference Tournaments are worth it. Moving to four divisions for stronger divisional rivalries is worth it. Having four major conferences instead of five is worth it to the conferences in terms of improving their negotiations with the Networks.

It is worth it to the Networks because they get greater divisional rivalries, conference tournaments and more worthy conference champions to push forward for a National Playoff.

It is almost like repeating the same list when it comes to pluses for the conferences and pluses for the Networks. When that happens, it makes it very likely that such an event happens.

Another benefit for the Networks and Conferences alike is that by moving to such a system, where committees and rankings ect are no more, the average fan can better understand the system. ESPN, Fox, NBC, whoever else...they're not trying to get the diehard college fan. They're trying to get the people that AREN'T diehards to also tune in. By simplifying the post season model, the average fan will be more likely to tune in because they'll have a better understanding of what's happening and why it's important. People will pay more attention to what they get and less attention to what they don't get. Conferences and networks alike will benefit from streamlining the post season battle for the championship due to increased viewership from the "layman".

Meanwhile He1nous, I feel really dirty for agreeing with you on this subject. Just thought you should know.

(12-23-2014 04:51 AM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 07:12 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 07:08 PM)10thMountain Wrote:  Not necessarily

There's no gurantee the SEC or ACC would want any of the Big 12 leftovers if UT/OU/KU find home elsewhere. None of the leftovers may be worth expansion to 16.

I don't understand why the concept of all or nothing is lost on so many people.

If they don't then nothing happens, period. These people are not waiting for the Big 12 GoR to end. The money is dangling right out in front of them.

Conference Tournaments are worth it. Moving to four divisions for stronger divisional rivalries is worth it. Having four major conferences instead of five is worth it to the conferences in terms of improving their negotiations with the Networks.

It is worth it to the Networks because they get greater divisional rivalries, conference tournaments and more worthy conference champions to push forward for a National Playoff.

It is almost like repeating the same list when it comes to pluses for the conferences and pluses for the Networks. When that happens, it makes it very likely that such an event happens.

Another benefit for the Networks and Conferences alike is that by moving to such a system, where committees and rankings ect are no more, the average fan can better understand the system. ESPN, Fox, NBC, whoever else...they're not trying to get the diehard college fan. They're trying to get the people that AREN'T diehards to also tune in. By simplifying the post season model, the average fan will be more likely to tune in because they'll have a better understanding of what's happening and why it's important. People will pay more attention to what they get and less attention to what they don't get. Conferences and networks alike will benefit from streamlining the post season battle for the championship due to increased viewership from the "layman".

Meanwhile He1nous, I feel really dirty for agreeing with you on this subject. Just thought you should know.

If you think you feel dirty now, I do believe in the past that I have written something pretty much identical to what you have put together in this post.

This is something that the Networks definitely want. The conferences take some heat for moving yet again away from tradition but the leaders take the heat because what this concept means to them is more money.

(12-22-2014 06:54 PM)He1nousOne Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 04:43 PM)bitcruncher Wrote:  

(12-22-2014 04:34 PM)Rabbit_in_Red Wrote:  I don't know what to tell anyone that thinks a conference that lost four members, rushed to replace them with two, has at least one of it's top programs (if not more) openly looking for exit opportunities, and is stubborn about expansion in spite of being left out of the playoffs is a stable conference. I really just don't know what to say. The writing isn't just on the wall, there's a big damn neon sign saying "IMPLOSION PENDING"...

Call me when the implosion happens. But not before.

I don't understand why this topic aggravates you. If it happens then WVU ends up in either the SEC or the ACC. Either one is a better home for WVU than the big 12 is.

The SEC would be nice. But screw the ACC.

If WVU ever ends up in the ACC, I hope it's after I'm safely dead - and the NCAA has given UNC the death penalty for decades of academic cheating.