I've come to this thread for the lol's.

(12-16-2014 04:35 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Why is BYU not part of the group?

There are conferences and each conference makes its own decisions on who to invite or not. Maybe your real complaint is that conferences themselves (as opposed to individual schools) have too much influence now, compared to the 1970s, which might be true. If that's your complaint, blame the Supreme Court for its Oklahoma v. NCAA decision, or blame ESPN and friends for latching onto conferences as brands just as if they were pro sports leagues.

As for BYU specifically, two things: (1) By all accounts, they could be in the Big 12 today if their leadership (or maybe the LDS church leadership) had not approached the Big 12 as if BYU had as much value and leverage as Texas. (2) If you are concerned about BYU, why aren't you mad that the G5 excluded BYU from eligibility for the Access Bowl spot in the CFP bowls?

(12-16-2014 05:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 04:35 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Why is BYU not part of the group?

There are conferences and each conference makes its own decisions on who to invite or not. Maybe your real complaint is that conferences themselves (as opposed to individual schools) have too much influence now, compared to the 1970s, which might be true. If that's your complaint, blame the Supreme Court for its Oklahoma v. NCAA decision, or blame ESPN and friends for latching onto conferences as brands just as if they were pro sports leagues.

As for BYU specifically, two things: (1) By all accounts, they could be in the Big 12 today if their leadership (or maybe the LDS church leadership) had not approached the Big 12 as if BYU had as much value and leverage as Texas. (2) If you are concerned about BYU, why aren't you mad that the G5 excluded BYU from eligibility for the Access Bowl spot in the CFP bowls?

Because it's all about G5 greed. Most American and MWC conferences look down their noses at the SunBelt, CUSA and the MAC, yet get bent out of shape if some fans from the P5 do the same. I think it's hypocrisy TBH.

title 9 and coaches salaries have a lot to do with it. The G5 has to work for crumbs to even survive while the Alabama's of the world have more money than know what to do with

(12-16-2014 05:11 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 04:35 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Why is BYU not part of the group?

There are conferences and each conference makes its own decisions on who to invite or not. Maybe your real complaint is that conferences themselves (as opposed to individual schools) have too much influence now, compared to the 1970s, which might be true. If that's your complaint, blame the Supreme Court for its Oklahoma v. NCAA decision, or blame ESPN and friends for latching onto conferences as brands just as if they were pro sports leagues.

As for BYU specifically, two things: (1) By all accounts, they could be in the Big 12 today if their leadership (or maybe the LDS church leadership) had not approached the Big 12 as if BYU had as much value and leverage as Texas. (2) If you are concerned about BYU, why aren't you mad that the G5 excluded BYU from eligibility for the Access Bowl spot in the CFP bowls?

Because it's all about G5 greed. Most American and MWC conferences look down their noses at the SunBelt, CUSA and the MAC, yet get bent out of shape if some fans from the P5 do the same. I think it's hypocrisy TBH.

I'll bite.

If the G5 (MWC, AAC) look down towards the MAC, Sunbelt, and the CUSA and that is the reason that the G5 are greedy, then aren't the P5s that look down at the G5s just as greedy and therefore will also 'ruin college football'?

(12-16-2014 05:16 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:11 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 04:35 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Why is BYU not part of the group?

There are conferences and each conference makes its own decisions on who to invite or not. Maybe your real complaint is that conferences themselves (as opposed to individual schools) have too much influence now, compared to the 1970s, which might be true. If that's your complaint, blame the Supreme Court for its Oklahoma v. NCAA decision, or blame ESPN and friends for latching onto conferences as brands just as if they were pro sports leagues.

As for BYU specifically, two things: (1) By all accounts, they could be in the Big 12 today if their leadership (or maybe the LDS church leadership) had not approached the Big 12 as if BYU had as much value and leverage as Texas. (2) If you are concerned about BYU, why aren't you mad that the G5 excluded BYU from eligibility for the Access Bowl spot in the CFP bowls?

Because it's all about G5 greed. Most American and MWC conferences look down their noses at the SunBelt, CUSA and the MAC, yet get bent out of shape if some fans from the P5 do the same. I think it's hypocrisy TBH.

I'll bite.

If the G5 (MWC, AAC) look down towards the MAC, Sunbelt, and the CUSA and that is the reason that the G5 are greedy, then aren't the P5s that look down at the G5s just as greedy and therefore will also 'ruin college football'?

Shame on you. Logic and common sense are not allowed here.

(12-16-2014 05:16 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:11 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 04:35 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Why is BYU not part of the group?

There are conferences and each conference makes its own decisions on who to invite or not. Maybe your real complaint is that conferences themselves (as opposed to individual schools) have too much influence now, compared to the 1970s, which might be true. If that's your complaint, blame the Supreme Court for its Oklahoma v. NCAA decision, or blame ESPN and friends for latching onto conferences as brands just as if they were pro sports leagues.

As for BYU specifically, two things: (1) By all accounts, they could be in the Big 12 today if their leadership (or maybe the LDS church leadership) had not approached the Big 12 as if BYU had as much value and leverage as Texas. (2) If you are concerned about BYU, why aren't you mad that the G5 excluded BYU from eligibility for the Access Bowl spot in the CFP bowls?

Because it's all about G5 greed. Most American and MWC conferences look down their noses at the SunBelt, CUSA and the MAC, yet get bent out of shape if some fans from the P5 do the same. I think it's hypocrisy TBH.

I'll bite.

If the G5 (MWC, AAC) look down towards the MAC, Sunbelt, and the CUSA and that is the reason that the G5 are greedy, then aren't the P5s that look down at the G5s just as greedy and therefore will also 'ruin college football'?

The TV ratings come from the P5 conference teams. That's why they are compensated better than the G5. Plus a lot of P5 schools regularly schedule games against the G5 schools. However, a number of G5 schools try to avoid scheduling games against what they perceive as lower level G5 schools.

(12-16-2014 04:09 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 12:13 PM)nbcards Wrote:  More like P5 Greed.

Absolutely.

But consider this, the G5 could restructure their conferences to make more sense. Regional rivalries among peer institutions is what builds interest. It keeps fan interest up, and allows them to travel w/ teams. It also keeps costs lower. It's why early conferences were formed where they were.

Yet G5 programs won't restructure b/c of greed...they fear they'll be leaving a few dollars on the table and/or they'll be missing a conference with a couple of better teams (usually in a single sport), instead of looking to build solid programs and leagues.

But, while this is a problem, it won't ruin college football. It is the greed of P5 programs that will do that, like you said. My interest in college football plummeted w/ the BCS. And after this season's playoff selection fiasco, I doubt I'll be all that interested.

I came for the lulz. I stayed for succulent morsels of wisdom like this one.

G5 greed? No thanks.

Personally, I would much prefer to share a conference with schools like UCF, ECU, Temple, etc. than with the "blue blood" P5 programs in those states. It's not because I lack ambition - hell, Charlotte football wouldn't even be a thing if not for folks like me. It's because I feel that we have more in common with schools like that. Large institutions, most of them in urban areas along the East coast, who are carving out their own identities. Institutions that have a bit of a chip on their shoulder and a bit of a rebel spirit when it comes to the established powers in their states. Those are the schools I want to be with... not the programs enjoying the comfort of the ivory palaces that are the P5.

Since we got kicked out of C-USA in 2005, we've watched one school that we once considered to be a peer move on to the P5. Two more are rumored to be on the verge of doing the same thing. I'm happy for them, and I wish them well... but I'd take 2004 Louisville over 2014 Louisville any day. They're one of the establishment now.

___________________________


Damn it, did I just apply hipster logic to college football?

(12-16-2014 12:09 PM)miko33 Wrote:  I think it's a distinct possibility.

No, but P5 greed might.

(12-16-2014 12:17 PM)john01992 Wrote:  Some of the G5 have come out against a lot of the reforms regarding student athletes that are necessary to advance college sports as a whole. the rationale for blocking moves that only benefit student athletes and safeguard the P5 from lawsuits is that they can afford it, but the G5 can't.

Your definition of "greed" is broken. Even given your premise, which is substantially exaggerated, "I don't want to go broke" is not one of the sentiments that fall within the scope of a definition of greed.

And of course, the Go5 could much more easily afford all of the items that actually do benefit student athletes if it were not for the P5 arms-race in AD, HC, OC, DC and etc. salaries.

(12-16-2014 06:55 PM)49erlew Wrote:  Personally, I would much prefer to share a conference with schools like UCF, ECU, Temple, etc. than with the "blue blood" P5 programs in those states. It's not because I lack ambition - hell, Charlotte football wouldn't even be a thing if not for folks like me. It's because I feel that we have more in common with schools like that. Large institutions, most of them in urban areas along the East coast, who are carving out their own identities. Institutions that have a bit of a chip on their shoulder and a bit of a rebel spirit when it comes to the established powers in their states. Those are the schools I want to be with... not the programs enjoying the comfort of the ivory palaces that are the P5.

OK, but there's only one problem: Those schools aren't able to give yours the time of day. They are too busy stepping on your face while trying to break into that ivory palace.

(12-16-2014 06:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:16 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:11 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 04:35 PM)HP-TBDPITL Wrote:  Why is BYU not part of the group?

There are conferences and each conference makes its own decisions on who to invite or not. Maybe your real complaint is that conferences themselves (as opposed to individual schools) have too much influence now, compared to the 1970s, which might be true. If that's your complaint, blame the Supreme Court for its Oklahoma v. NCAA decision, or blame ESPN and friends for latching onto conferences as brands just as if they were pro sports leagues.

As for BYU specifically, two things: (1) By all accounts, they could be in the Big 12 today if their leadership (or maybe the LDS church leadership) had not approached the Big 12 as if BYU had as much value and leverage as Texas. (2) If you are concerned about BYU, why aren't you mad that the G5 excluded BYU from eligibility for the Access Bowl spot in the CFP bowls?

Because it's all about G5 greed. Most American and MWC conferences look down their noses at the SunBelt, CUSA and the MAC, yet get bent out of shape if some fans from the P5 do the same. I think it's hypocrisy TBH.

I'll bite.

If the G5 (MWC, AAC) look down towards the MAC, Sunbelt, and the CUSA and that is the reason that the G5 are greedy, then aren't the P5s that look down at the G5s just as greedy and therefore will also 'ruin college football'?

The TV ratings come from the P5 conference teams. That's why they are compensated better than the G5. Plus a lot of P5 schools regularly schedule games against the G5 schools. However, a number of G5 schools try to avoid scheduling games against what they perceive as lower level G5 schools.

How does this ruin college football? Isn't the game already ruined for the most part?

(12-16-2014 07:52 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 06:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:16 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:11 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:08 PM)Wedge Wrote:  There are conferences and each conference makes its own decisions on who to invite or not. Maybe your real complaint is that conferences themselves (as opposed to individual schools) have too much influence now, compared to the 1970s, which might be true. If that's your complaint, blame the Supreme Court for its Oklahoma v. NCAA decision, or blame ESPN and friends for latching onto conferences as brands just as if they were pro sports leagues.

As for BYU specifically, two things: (1) By all accounts, they could be in the Big 12 today if their leadership (or maybe the LDS church leadership) had not approached the Big 12 as if BYU had as much value and leverage as Texas. (2) If you are concerned about BYU, why aren't you mad that the G5 excluded BYU from eligibility for the Access Bowl spot in the CFP bowls?

Because it's all about G5 greed. Most American and MWC conferences look down their noses at the SunBelt, CUSA and the MAC, yet get bent out of shape if some fans from the P5 do the same. I think it's hypocrisy TBH.

I'll bite.

If the G5 (MWC, AAC) look down towards the MAC, Sunbelt, and the CUSA and that is the reason that the G5 are greedy, then aren't the P5s that look down at the G5s just as greedy and therefore will also 'ruin college football'?

The TV ratings come from the P5 conference teams. That's why they are compensated better than the G5. Plus a lot of P5 schools regularly schedule games against the G5 schools. However, a number of G5 schools try to avoid scheduling games against what they perceive as lower level G5 schools.

How does this ruin college football? Isn't the game already ruined for the most part?

The G5 fans are hoping to see things destabilize in the hopes that their schools get called up to backfill in a P5 conference. I think the G5 schools themselves are scrambling and jockeying to get into the P5 instead of growing their own conferences in order to create a P6 or a P7. That's the problem we see today, and instead of working to make things better we are seeing schools stabbing other schools in the back in the hope to win a sweepstakes. It's repugnant and fueled by greed. There is no consideration for their fellow institutions.

(12-16-2014 07:40 PM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 06:55 PM)49erlew Wrote:  Personally, I would much prefer to share a conference with schools like UCF, ECU, Temple, etc. than with the "blue blood" P5 programs in those states. ...

OK, but there's only one problem: Those schools aren't able to give yours the time of day. They are too busy stepping on your face while trying to break into that ivory palace.

UCF, Moved from their start in Div3 to the FBS in 15 years, joined the MAC FB-only after six years as an FBS independent, looking for a new home one year in and left for CUSA after four year in the MAC, where they lobbied to move up to the old Big East until realignment opened up a spot.

ECU, SoCon 1970-1976, left to go independent, joined CUSA in 1997. After over a whole decade in an FBS conference lobbied hard to get into the old Big East when the spot opened up.

Temple, kicked out of the Old Big East, wandered in the wilderness as an independent in a period where it was much harder to be independent until given a FB-only spot by the MAC, who went out to get a partner east coast school for Temple in UMass ... only to have a spot open up again in the old Big East and leave before playing a single game with the school brought in as their east coast partner.

quo vadis has nailed this ... you've pointed to a set of climbers who would stab you in the back to use the knife as a footrest in their next climb.

(12-16-2014 04:09 PM)DrTorch Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 12:13 PM)nbcards Wrote:  More like P5 Greed.

Absolutely.

But consider this, the G5 could restructure their conferences to make more sense. Regional rivalries among peer institutions is what builds interest. It keeps fan interest up, and allows them to travel w/ teams. It also keeps costs lower. It's why early conferences were formed where they were.

Yet G5 programs won't restructure b/c of greed...they fear they'll be leaving a few dollars on the table and/or they'll be missing a conference with a couple of better teams (usually in a single sport), instead of looking to build solid programs and leagues.

But, while this is a problem, it won't ruin college football. It is the greed of P5 programs that will do that, like you said. My interest in college football plummeted w/ the BCS. And after this season's playoff selection fiasco, I doubt I'll be all that interested.

There is the fly in the ointment. Peer institutions often mean very different things to different schools and fan bases. Geography isn't everything. Houston, Texas A&M and Sam Houston State are all division one schools located about an hours drive from one another---but they are not likely to ever all be in the same conference.

(12-16-2014 08:04 PM)miko33 Wrote:  The G5 fans are hoping to see things destabilize in the hopes that their schools get called up to backfill in a P5 conference.

Some are, many aren't. Only an idiot would take opinions expressed on a "College Sports and Conference Realignment" forum as representative of the entire fanbase of a school.

Quote: I think the G5 schools themselves are scrambling and jockeying to get into the P5

Some are. Many aren't. It would be idiotic to try to paint all Go5 schools with the same brush.

Quote: instead of growing their own conferences in order to create a P6 or a P7.

This is a false dichotomy, so rather than being idiotic, its a logical fallacy, and the idiotic thing would be to fall for it.

Quote: That's the problem we see today,

That's the picture you are painting today, but since its painted with a combination of false premises and logical fallacy, its hard to take it very seriously.

Quote: ... and instead of working to make things better we are seeing schools stabbing other schools in the back in the hope to win a sweepstakes. It's repugnant and fueled by greed. There is no consideration for their fellow institutions.

And the claim that its fueled by greed is just that ... an unsubstantiated claim without supporting evidence.

There are about 20 or 30 G5 schools that could do as well (or better) than the bottom of the P5 if they just got P5 level money.

For example, give ECU ACC-type money and they would easily outperform half of the ACC. Hell, they almost do that now.

(12-16-2014 08:04 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 07:52 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 06:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:16 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:11 PM)miko33 Wrote:  Because it's all about G5 greed. Most American and MWC conferences look down their noses at the SunBelt, CUSA and the MAC, yet get bent out of shape if some fans from the P5 do the same. I think it's hypocrisy TBH.

I'll bite.

If the G5 (MWC, AAC) look down towards the MAC, Sunbelt, and the CUSA and that is the reason that the G5 are greedy, then aren't the P5s that look down at the G5s just as greedy and therefore will also 'ruin college football'?

The TV ratings come from the P5 conference teams. That's why they are compensated better than the G5. Plus a lot of P5 schools regularly schedule games against the G5 schools. However, a number of G5 schools try to avoid scheduling games against what they perceive as lower level G5 schools.

How does this ruin college football? Isn't the game already ruined for the most part?

The G5 fans are hoping to see things destabilize in the hopes that their schools get called up to backfill in a P5 conference. I think the G5 schools themselves are scrambling and jockeying to get into the P5 instead of growing their own conferences in order to create a P6 or a P7. That's the problem we see today, and instead of working to make things better we are seeing schools stabbing other schools in the back in the hope to win a sweepstakes. It's repugnant and fueled by greed. There is no consideration for their fellow institutions.

'Better' is relative, sir. You may like the the monopoly that the P5 has on the bowl games, TV revenue, etc. But the G5s only want their slice. If the money wasn't a big deal, then you'd see the P5 sharing it... If you want to talk about greed, just look at the B12. They refused to invite two because it reduced the amount of money they could potentially pull in. In no way has any G5 made attempts at sabotaging others in order to get invites... You may see some belittle others, but that's the fan base, and not the athletics. G5s schedule P5s for the money, and P5s schedule G5s for the easy win. G5s try to not schedule other G5s because its not exciting for the fan base, and actually can have negative effects... See Marshall through week 13. You making this thread is absolutely ignorant, and an obvious attempt to troll. Please try and state fqcts about how the G5s are 'ruining' CFB rather than backing up your BS with more BS.

(12-17-2014 01:21 AM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 08:04 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 07:52 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 06:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 05:16 PM)Enaiu Wrote:  I'll bite.

If the G5 (MWC, AAC) look down towards the MAC, Sunbelt, and the CUSA and that is the reason that the G5 are greedy, then aren't the P5s that look down at the G5s just as greedy and therefore will also 'ruin college football'?

The TV ratings come from the P5 conference teams. That's why they are compensated better than the G5. Plus a lot of P5 schools regularly schedule games against the G5 schools. However, a number of G5 schools try to avoid scheduling games against what they perceive as lower level G5 schools.

How does this ruin college football? Isn't the game already ruined for the most part?

The G5 fans are hoping to see things destabilize in the hopes that their schools get called up to backfill in a P5 conference. I think the G5 schools themselves are scrambling and jockeying to get into the P5 instead of growing their own conferences in order to create a P6 or a P7. That's the problem we see today, and instead of working to make things better we are seeing schools stabbing other schools in the back in the hope to win a sweepstakes. It's repugnant and fueled by greed. There is no consideration for their fellow institutions.

'Better' is relative, sir. You may like the the monopoly that the P5 has on the bowl games, TV revenue, etc. But the G5s only want their slice.

The G5 is getting a slice. How much more do you want?

This thread is so good.

(12-17-2014 07:21 AM)quo vadis Wrote:  

(12-17-2014 01:21 AM)Enaiu Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 08:04 PM)miko33 Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 07:52 PM)oliveandblue Wrote:  

(12-16-2014 06:10 PM)miko33 Wrote:  The TV ratings come from the P5 conference teams. That's why they are compensated better than the G5. Plus a lot of P5 schools regularly schedule games against the G5 schools. However, a number of G5 schools try to avoid scheduling games against what they perceive as lower level G5 schools.

How does this ruin college football? Isn't the game already ruined for the most part?

The G5 fans are hoping to see things destabilize in the hopes that their schools get called up to backfill in a P5 conference. I think the G5 schools themselves are scrambling and jockeying to get into the P5 instead of growing their own conferences in order to create a P6 or a P7. That's the problem we see today, and instead of working to make things better we are seeing schools stabbing other schools in the back in the hope to win a sweepstakes. It's repugnant and fueled by greed. There is no consideration for their fellow institutions.

'Better' is relative, sir. You may like the the monopoly that the P5 has on the bowl games, TV revenue, etc. But the G5s only want their slice.

The G5 is getting a slice. How much more do you want?

Enough to create a P6