(10-24-2014 11:52 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  This should have been Big East Basketball:

1. Connecticut
2. Providence
3. Saint John's
4. Seton Hall
5. TEMPLE
6. Villanova
7. Georgetown
8. Xavier
9. Cincinnati
10. Memphis
11. East Carolina
12. Central Florida
13. South Florida
14. Southern Methodist
15. Hoston
16. DePaul
17. Marquette
.18 Boise State
.19 Fresno State
.20 San Diego State

This should have been the Big East Football Conference:

1. Connecticut
2. TEMPLE
9. Cincinnati
4. Memphis
5. East Carolina
6. Central Florida
7. South Florida
8. Southern Methodist
9. Hoston
.10 Boise State
.11 Fresno State
.12 San Diego State

I think your commission failed to put this together and as a result the American and the Big East both got under paid!

Don't care about them

In Texas.

(10-25-2014 07:17 AM)BearcatJerry Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 11:52 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  This should have been Big East Basketball:

1. Connecticut
2. Providence
3. Saint John's
4. Seton Hall
5. TEMPLE
6. Villanova
7. Georgetown
8. Xavier
9. Cincinnati
10. Memphis
11. East Carolina
12. Central Florida
13. South Florida
14. Southern Methodist
15. Hoston
16. DePaul
17. Marquette
.18 Boise State
.19 Fresno State
.20 San Diego State

This should have been the Big East Football Conference:

1. Connecticut
2. TEMPLE
9. Cincinnati
4. Memphis
5. East Carolina
6. Central Florida
7. South Florida
8. Southern Methodist
9. Hoston
.10 Boise State
.11 Fresno State
.12 San Diego State

I think your commission failed to put this together and as a result the American and the Big East both got under paid!

I notice that Louisville isn't in either list, so what the hell do you care?

(10-25-2014 08:32 AM)J_Coog Wrote:  

(10-24-2014 11:52 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  This should have been Big East Basketball:

1. Connecticut
2. Providence
3. Saint John's
4. Seton Hall
5. TEMPLE
6. Villanova
7. Georgetown
8. Xavier
9. Cincinnati
10. Memphis
11. East Carolina
12. Central Florida
13. South Florida
14. Southern Methodist
15. Hoston
16. DePaul
17. Marquette
.18 Boise State
.19 Fresno State
.20 San Diego State

This should have been the Big East Football Conference:

1. Connecticut
2. TEMPLE
9. Cincinnati
4. Memphis
5. East Carolina
6. Central Florida
7. South Florida
8. Southern Methodist
9. Hoston
.10 Boise State
.11 Fresno State
.12 San Diego State

I think your commission failed to put this together and as a result the American and the Big East both got under paid!

Where is Hoston?

(10-25-2014 09:50 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:50 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:39 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:12 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Oh I know we got more credits but they still got $4 million TV contract and we barely got $2. Total income will be higher in the Big East then in the AAC.

I also don't think the Big East will stay at only getting 6 credits. Last year was a down year.

Its really too bad we all couldnt have destroyed CUSA before the AAC was merged. There were a ton of credits that were left behind.

In the long run, better exposure on and support from ESPN trumps $2M annually (or about $182K per AAC team), IMO.

Its $2 million more PER TEAM or $20 million annually. Big difference.

True, it does alter the balance. I still believe it is better strategically to be on the side of the Mouse.

$2 million per team for just the TV deal...yes, but....

They had to pay out NCAA credits, buy the Big East name, pay exit fees, etc. They are not getting $2 million extra over the AAC teams (Especially Uconn, USF, and Cincy that got most of the warchest)

If you look at a 5 year analysis with all the lost revenue leaving the old Big East, they had to get $4 million just be close to $2 million per year in the AAC. Now the question is do they even get $4 million in their next TV deal with non-existent ratings. Fox assumed they would produce ratings like they did in the past. No large state schools and a smaller conference means less eye balls watching.

Thank you, great post. That doesn't even include revenue the American receives from football. Even though it might seem like a small amount of money, the college football playoff money is still more than $1 million in the conference's weakest season. The Big East/C7 schools relegated themselves to second class status when they split with the football schools and went to Fox. If they stayed with the football schools and landed on ESPN they could have at least pushed the perception that the basketball side was still big time. Even a bloated 18 team league probably would have earned 6 to 9 bids a year. Georgetown, Marquette, Villanova, St. John's, and company could have used UConn, Cincinnati, Temple, Memphis, Houston, and SMU for exposure and brand awareness. Xavier, Butler, and Creighton play good basketball but they are still small time schools on the national radar.

(10-25-2014 08:51 AM)Gray Avenger Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:32 AM)J_Coog Wrote:  Where is Hoston?

On the Gulf Cost west of New Orlens.

Wherever the hos are (sorry, couldn't resist).

(10-25-2014 09:55 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 09:50 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:50 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:39 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  In the long run, better exposure on and support from ESPN trumps $2M annually (or about $182K per AAC team), IMO.

Its $2 million more PER TEAM or $20 million annually. Big difference.

True, it does alter the balance. I still believe it is better strategically to be on the side of the Mouse.

$2 million per team for just the TV deal...yes, but....

They had to pay out NCAA credits, buy the Big East name, pay exit fees, etc. They are not getting $2 million extra over the AAC teams (Especially Uconn, USF, and Cincy that got most of the warchest)

If you look at a 5 year analysis with all the lost revenue leaving the old Big East, they had to get $4 million just be close to $2 million per year in the AAC. Now the question is do they even get $4 million in their next TV deal with non-existent ratings. Fox assumed they would produce ratings like they did in the past. No large state schools and a smaller conference means less eye balls watching.

You mean people aren't searching their TVs to watch Providence-DePaul?

People are not searching out Temple-ECU or most of the American games either. The big difference is that Temple-ECU is on ESPNU while the Big East has games on FS1 and FS2. Viewers (and sports bars) will stumble on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, and ESPNews and find the American because those networks are your default sports channels. The hardcore fans will find games on CSBSN, FS1, FS2, NBCSN, and your RSNs but your casual and lazy sports fans will not.

(10-24-2014 11:52 PM)Wilkie01 Wrote:  This should have been Big East Basketball:

1. Connecticut
2. Providence
3. Saint John's
4. Seton Hall
5. TEMPLE
6. Villanova
7. Georgetown
8. Xavier
9. Cincinnati
10. Memphis
11. East Carolina
12. Central Florida
13. South Florida
14. Southern Methodist
15. Hoston
16. DePaul
17. Marquette
.18 Boise State
.19 Fresno State
.20 San Diego State

This should have been the Big East Football Conference:

1. Connecticut
2. TEMPLE
9. Cincinnati
4. Memphis
5. East Carolina
6. Central Florida
7. South Florida
8. Southern Methodist
9. Hoston
.10 Boise State
.11 Fresno State
.12 San Diego State

I think your commission failed to put this together and as a result the American and the Big East both got under paid!

Everything was cool Wilkie til I got down to the part where you put the f'n periods before the numbers! Now you done gone and ruined my whole f'n week. You are from ever putting up lists again. The nerve of some people!

(10-25-2014 07:59 AM)Bathtub Gin Wrote:  This all stems from the big east going with fox and leaving espn. When you are not on espn anymore, you pretty much don't exist.

This.

Only good thing about being on Fox sports is every single conference game is on there. You know where to look if you want to watch a Big East game. The AAC most of the games are on Espn news and Espn U so the exposure isn't all that great being the 6th conference in the Espn pecking order.

No thanks to a 20 program basketball conference.

While playing a program or two of the old BE with basketball only programs would have been entertaining, most folks with a knowledge of the history of conferences that have spring sports only programs mixed with full athletic programs realize that it's a model that will eventually fail.

For some reason Wilkie is going out of his way lately to make himself irrelevant in AAC discussions. I suppose he's merely trying to pull our chains to watch us dance. At least he's being successful in that regard.

(10-25-2014 09:50 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:50 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:39 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:12 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Oh I know we got more credits but they still got $4 million TV contract and we barely got $2. Total income will be higher in the Big East then in the AAC.

I also don't think the Big East will stay at only getting 6 credits. Last year was a down year.

Its really too bad we all couldnt have destroyed CUSA before the AAC was merged. There were a ton of credits that were left behind.

In the long run, better exposure on and support from ESPN trumps $2M annually (or about $182K per AAC team), IMO.

Its $2 million more PER TEAM or $20 million annually. Big difference.

True, it does alter the balance. I still believe it is better strategically to be on the side of the Mouse.

$2 million per team for just the TV deal...yes, but....

They had to pay out NCAA credits, buy the Big East name, pay exit fees, etc. They are not getting $2 million extra over the AAC teams (Especially Uconn, USF, and Cincy that got most of the warchest)

If you look at a 5 year analysis with all the lost revenue leaving the old Big East, they had to get $4 million just be close to $2 million per year in the AAC. Now the question is do they even get $4 million in their next TV deal with non-existent ratings. Fox assumed they would produce ratings like they did in the past. No large state schools and a smaller conference means less eye balls watching.

Your point is valid but now take out the travel costs of all the teams not having to come down to Florida... and think how bad it would have been for them if they had to do it twice, plus Texas and other western locations.

I get why they left. In the long run, they are doing quite fine. With the credits they kept (they didnt have to give them all up) and the ones they made last year, they are already well into the $5 million range, which is just as much as they made in the old Big east. With the travel savings, It works out great for them... plus, they no longer have to put up with the Big East bashing. ESPN now talks about the Big East as a power basketball conference and you dont hear nearly as much crap.

(10-25-2014 08:12 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 07:42 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 07:37 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The Big East got twice as much money as the AAC, so I don't think they are all that upset we left. With all the NCAA tourney credits they will rack up, they will add another $2+ million. For a basketball only conference to have $6 million income isn't pretty damn good.

Last year credits. We nearly doubled the big east credits.

AAC = 11
Big East = 6

[b]Oh I know we got more credits but they still got $4 million TV contract and we barely got $2. Total income will be higher in the Big East then in the AAC.[\b]

I also don't think the Big East will stay at only getting 6 credits. Last year was a down year.

Its really too bad we all couldnt have destroyed CUSA before the AAC was merged. There were a ton of credits that were left behind.

You might want to look up how much "total" income the American made versus the big east last year. Sounds like you would be surprised to know that the AAC teams made significantly more money than the big east. To the big east credit, they did earn more than the mountain west.

(10-25-2014 10:32 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 09:55 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 09:50 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:50 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:39 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Its $2 million more PER TEAM or $20 million annually. Big difference.

True, it does alter the balance. I still believe it is better strategically to be on the side of the Mouse.

$2 million per team for just the TV deal...yes, but....

They had to pay out NCAA credits, buy the Big East name, pay exit fees, etc. They are not getting $2 million extra over the AAC teams (Especially Uconn, USF, and Cincy that got most of the warchest)

If you look at a 5 year analysis with all the lost revenue leaving the old Big East, they had to get $4 million just be close to $2 million per year in the AAC. Now the question is do they even get $4 million in their next TV deal with non-existent ratings. Fox assumed they would produce ratings like they did in the past. No large state schools and a smaller conference means less eye balls watching.

You mean people aren't searching their TVs to watch Providence-DePaul?

People are not searching out Temple-ECU or most of the American games either. The big difference is that Temple-ECU is on ESPNU while the Big East has games on FS1 and FS2. Viewers (and sports bars) will stumble on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, and ESPNews and find the American because those networks are your default sports channels. The hardcore fans will find games on CSBSN, FS1, FS2, NBCSN, and your RSNs but your casual and lazy sports fans will not.

The overall biggest difference is that espn is very happy with the viewership of the AAC games. In contrast, fox is extremely disappointed in the big east, to the point where someone could lose their job over the deal.

(10-25-2014 10:32 AM)bearcatlawjd Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 09:55 AM)BcatMatt13 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 09:50 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:50 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:39 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Its $2 million more PER TEAM or $20 million annually. Big difference.

True, it does alter the balance. I still believe it is better strategically to be on the side of the Mouse.

$2 million per team for just the TV deal...yes, but....

They had to pay out NCAA credits, buy the Big East name, pay exit fees, etc. They are not getting $2 million extra over the AAC teams (Especially Uconn, USF, and Cincy that got most of the warchest)

If you look at a 5 year analysis with all the lost revenue leaving the old Big East, they had to get $4 million just be close to $2 million per year in the AAC. Now the question is do they even get $4 million in their next TV deal with non-existent ratings. Fox assumed they would produce ratings like they did in the past. No large state schools and a smaller conference means less eye balls watching.

You mean people aren't searching their TVs to watch Providence-DePaul?

People are not searching out Temple-ECU or most of the American games either. The big difference is that Temple-ECU is on ESPNU while the Big East has games on FS1 and FS2. Viewers (and sports bars) will stumble on ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, and ESPNews and find the American because those networks are your default sports channels. The hardcore fans will find games on CSBSN, FS1, FS2, NBCSN, and your RSNs but your casual and lazy sports fans will not.

Oh I know. I meant exactly what you said...that no one is going out of their way to find a Big East game on FS1.

Not-so Big East hoops is dying on the vine on the cartoon network, or whatever station they play on

(10-25-2014 03:50 PM)UofMstateU Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:12 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 07:42 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 07:37 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  The Big East got twice as much money as the AAC, so I don't think they are all that upset we left. With all the NCAA tourney credits they will rack up, they will add another $2+ million. For a basketball only conference to have $6 million income isn't pretty damn good.

Last year credits. We nearly doubled the big east credits.

AAC = 11
Big East = 6

[b]Oh I know we got more credits but they still got $4 million TV contract and we barely got $2. Total income will be higher in the Big East then in the AAC.[\b]

I also don't think the Big East will stay at only getting 6 credits. Last year was a down year.

Its really too bad we all couldnt have destroyed CUSA before the AAC was merged. There were a ton of credits that were left behind.

You might want to look up how much "total" income the American made versus the big east last year. Sounds like you would be surprised to know that the AAC teams made significantly more money than the big east. To the big east credit, they did earn more than the mountain west.

The numbers that I have seen list the American at a rough average of $6.2 million per team income with the Big East at a bit over $5 million... and then when you take our regular season and bowl travel expense, which the Big East doesnt have, then the Big East is actually in a better financial position.

Long term, I think the AAC will be in a better position but I am not 100% convinced that the new Big East didnt make a good move.

The three teams that were actually in the real Big East can tell you that the relationship was bad for a REALLY long time. Having the Catholic 7 mixed in with us actually killed the Big East football from being more proactive and growing. If we had seperated from the Bball Big East schools earlier, we would have been able to secure the western schools and made a very solid football conference.

Think about the Big East football teams (the 8 we had) then add in TCU, BYU and Boise St... that was the plan and it was looking pretty good. We would have needed one more western team at a minimum and right about that time was when Houston was really cranking it up, so I think that might have been #12.

I am still pissed that Pitt screwed us... they were negotiating their exit while urging us to turn down the nearly $11 million a year contract that was offered. Ugh.

Creating an all Catholic bb conference was stupid. Very little market appeal outside of Catholics. Now if the Pope shows up for all the games that might help a little.

(10-25-2014 02:49 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 09:50 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:50 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:39 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:30 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  In the long run, better exposure on and support from ESPN trumps $2M annually (or about $182K per AAC team), IMO.

Its $2 million more PER TEAM or $20 million annually. Big difference.

True, it does alter the balance. I still believe it is better strategically to be on the side of the Mouse.

$2 million per team for just the TV deal...yes, but....

They had to pay out NCAA credits, buy the Big East name, pay exit fees, etc. They are not getting $2 million extra over the AAC teams (Especially Uconn, USF, and Cincy that got most of the warchest)

If you look at a 5 year analysis with all the lost revenue leaving the old Big East, they had to get $4 million just be close to $2 million per year in the AAC. Now the question is do they even get $4 million in their next TV deal with non-existent ratings. Fox assumed they would produce ratings like they did in the past. No large state schools and a smaller conference means less eye balls watching.

Your point is valid but now take out the travel costs of all the teams not having to come down to Florida... and think how bad it would have been for them if they had to do it twice, plus Texas and other western locations.

I get why they left. In the long run, they are doing quite fine. With the credits they kept (they didnt have to give them all up) and the ones they made last year, they are already well into the $5 million range, which is just as much as they made in the old Big east. With the travel savings, It works out great for them... plus, they no longer have to put up with the Big East bashing. ESPN now talks about the Big East as a power basketball conference and you dont hear nearly as much crap.

You're not backing out the exit fees, ncaa credits, etc...our schools get that money over 5 years. We are about to have a championship football game too.

(10-25-2014 08:23 PM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 02:49 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 09:50 AM)KNIGHTTIME Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:50 AM)Tiger1983 Wrote:  

(10-25-2014 08:39 AM)mtmedlin Wrote:  Its $2 million more PER TEAM or $20 million annually. Big difference.

True, it does alter the balance. I still believe it is better strategically to be on the side of the Mouse.

$2 million per team for just the TV deal...yes, but....

They had to pay out NCAA credits, buy the Big East name, pay exit fees, etc. They are not getting $2 million extra over the AAC teams (Especially Uconn, USF, and Cincy that got most of the warchest)

If you look at a 5 year analysis with all the lost revenue leaving the old Big East, they had to get $4 million just be close to $2 million per year in the AAC. Now the question is do they even get $4 million in their next TV deal with non-existent ratings. Fox assumed they would produce ratings like they did in the past. No large state schools and a smaller conference means less eye balls watching.

Your point is valid but now take out the travel costs of all the teams not having to come down to Florida... and think how bad it would have been for them if they had to do it twice, plus Texas and other western locations.

I get why they left. In the long run, they are doing quite fine. With the credits they kept (they didnt have to give them all up) and the ones they made last year, they are already well into the $5 million range, which is just as much as they made in the old Big east. With the travel savings, It works out great for them... plus, they no longer have to put up with the Big East bashing. ESPN now talks about the Big East as a power basketball conference and you dont hear nearly as much crap.

You're not backing out the exit fees, ncaa credits, etc...our schools get that money over 5 years. We are about to have a championship football game too.

I am not doing that because I am aware of the fact that the Catholic 7 didn't have to pay any exit fees and were able to keep their NCAA credits.

What they didn't get was any portion of the exit fees from the other departing football members or a portion of their exit fees. The three remaining Big East football schools got the majority of that.... roughly $20 million a piece which is paid over 5 years. Thats why teams like USF, Cinci and Uconn are still making fairly close to $10 million after TV contract, Bowl payout, NCAA credits and exit fee payments. We'll be at that level for about 4 more years.

(10-25-2014 08:00 PM)knightmite Wrote:  Creating an all Catholic bb conference was stupid. Very little market appeal outside of Catholics. Now if the Pope shows up for all the games that might help a little.

It could actually work but they need to expand into other markets. I am surprised they haven't invited St Louis and Richmond. Two big markets, competitive teams and would drive more interest.

Long term, we all knew that the New Big East probably wasnt a good idea. The old A-10 was a strong conference and their TV contract was never more then about $1 million. Fox 1 is really leaving them hanging out there, which I dont understand.

I would be setting up as many big time games as they can find. I would work on setting up and ACC vs Big East tourney... but instead, I have seen very little promotion. If I am investing $20 million a year, id promote the hell out of it.