(10-21-2014 09:57 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 05:54 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  We all know the majority of the AAC and MWC could become power houses if we made even half what the P5 conferences do. Frustrating.

ECU has the stadium of a P5 but their problem is they are 1 of 7 schools in North Carolina. The recruiting potential just is not there. They can try to recruit Florida but players will go to SEC/ACC schools with more tradition first.

Some G5 programs just do not have that much potential, IMO.

Dude seriously what is your problem with ECU your like a jealous 13 year old girl.

North Carolina pretty much has double the population of Alabama. The state of Alabama has the following CFB teams: Alabama, Auburn, UAB, Troy, South Alabama, Jacksonville State, Tuskeegee, Alabama A&M, Alabama State, North Alabama.

That's 10 without including some of the minor teams like West Alabama.

If Alabama can healthily support ten teams with less than five million people living in the state North Carolina is okay with twice the population and less teams. Especially considering that ECU can honestly win recruiting battles against their ACC peers from time to time unlike in Alabama where Auburn and UA can cherry pick recruits.

(10-21-2014 05:54 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  We all know the majority of the AAC and MWC could become power houses if we made even half what the P5 conferences do. Frustrating.

I don't see a lot of trophies on the shelf with our $20 million raise, and with the exception of BSU, the rest of the Go5 was miles behind mid major Utah.
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(10-21-2014 11:33 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  The bottom of the Pac-12 is not much better than the MWC.

If only the MWC's best team had been moved to the PAC then we could compare the bottom of the PAC to the top of the MWC. I guess we'll never know how an elite MWC school would adjust to a PAC schedule.

(10-21-2014 11:42 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  The state of Alabama has the following CFB teams: Alabama, Auburn, UAB, Troy, South Alabama, Jacksonville State, Tuskeegee, Alabama A&M, Alabama State, North Alabama.

Yes, but of all those schools you listed, only Bama, Auburn, and UAB are FBS. North Carolina has the 4 ACC schools, Charlotte, and ECU.

(10-22-2014 12:38 AM)CoogNellie Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 11:42 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  The state of Alabama has the following CFB teams: Alabama, Auburn, UAB, Troy, South Alabama, Jacksonville State, Tuskeegee, Alabama A&M, Alabama State, North Alabama.

Yes, but of all those schools you listed, only Bama, Auburn, and UAB are FBS. North Carolina has the 4 ACC schools, Charlotte, and ECU.

So Sun Belt is not FBS?

This is a textbook example of the use of selective data to support a conclusion. You took the top 25℅ of the G5 and compared it to the bottom 25% of the P5 to conclude that there isn't an advantage in recruiting. Thank you for proving the old adage about 3 kinds of lies; lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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(10-22-2014 06:59 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  This is a textbook example of the use of selective data to support a conclusion. You took the top 25℅ of the G5 and compared it to the bottom 25% of the P5 to conclude that there isn't an advantage in recruiting. Thank you for proving the old adage about 3 kinds of lies; lies, damned lies, and statistics.

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THIS.

I wouldn't say the power conferences are "dying."

I do think you will see more highly-ranked recruits start going to the top G5 programs, though. The 24/7 media cycle means that G5 schools are on TV just as much as the P5, and it won't hurt their chances of being drafted high.

And now it is easier to compete for a national championship if the stars align just right.

(10-21-2014 05:54 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  I know my school USF ended up ranked in the top 40 last year in just about every sites rankings... It makes me wonder what we could do if we had the name of the B12 and income to back us up.

We all know the majority of the AAC and MWC could become power houses if we made even half what the P5 conferences do. Frustrating.

The budget thing is a pretty lame excuse. Boise State's budget is tiny compared to the P5 - for instance, our entire athletic budget is the equivalent of 35% of Texas' FOOTBALL budget. But we have still had plenty of success.

The most important aspects to building a great program are infrastructure and committed leadership, not money. Most athletic budgets are obscenely bloated anyway.

(10-21-2014 11:42 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 09:57 PM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(10-21-2014 05:54 PM)mtmedlin Wrote:  We all know the majority of the AAC and MWC could become power houses if we made even half what the P5 conferences do. Frustrating.

ECU has the stadium of a P5 but their problem is they are 1 of 7 schools in North Carolina. The recruiting potential just is not there. They can try to recruit Florida but players will go to SEC/ACC schools with more tradition first.

Some G5 programs just do not have that much potential, IMO.

Dude seriously what is your problem with ECU your like a jealous 13 year old girl.

North Carolina pretty much has double the population of Alabama. The state of Alabama has the following CFB teams: Alabama, Auburn, UAB, Troy, South Alabama, Jacksonville State, Tuskeegee, Alabama A&M, Alabama State, North Alabama.

That's 10 without including some of the minor teams like West Alabama.

If Alabama can healthily support ten teams with less than five million people living in the state North Carolina is okay with twice the population and less teams. Especially considering that ECU can honestly win recruiting battles against their ACC peers from time to time unlike in Alabama where Auburn and UA can cherry pick recruits.

For years I have been hearing about how having five FBS teams hurts UNC and NC State in recruiting. Of course, now we will have two more in App State and Charlotte. But to say that Wake forest and Duke hurt those schools in recruiting NC students is a little exaggerated. Of its 22 starters, Wake has only three from NC. Far more of their players come from Florida and Georgia than from NC. Duke also recruits more nationally than locally.

So UNC , NCSU and ECU share the rest. Unfortunately, they also "share" their best players with Virginia Tech, Tennessee,Georgia, Clemson and South Carolina.

Duke has 24 players from NC on their roster and Wake has 22

In addition to 7 FBS programs NC also has 7 FCS programs.

FBS
North Carolina
North Carolina St
Wake Forest
Duke
East Carolina
Appalachian State
Charlotte

FCS
Campbell
Davidson
Elon
Gardner Webb
North Carolina AT&T
North Carolina Central
Western Carolina

This is all for a state that only averages 60 FBS football recruits a year.

Georgia 158
Ohio 152
Alabama 84
Louisiana 83
Pennsylvania 68
Illinois 63
Michigan 60
North Carolina 60

http://www.footballstudyhall.com/2013/9/...ia-florida

That is why ECU has never been able to turn the corner and become a regular Top 20 program.....they just do not have a strong enough recruiting base. Unlike Boise where its one of the most attractive programs in the Mountain region, ECU is a pretty average FBS program (though strong for a G5).

The state of Alabama only has 9 FBS/FCS programs but 84 recruits that sign at the FBS level, significantly more than North Carolina.

FBS
Alabama
Auburn
UAB
Troy
South Alabama

FCS
Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Jacksonville State
Samford

Trying to draw strong conclusions from a snapshot of one site's ratings in October is pretty absurd. Even looking at the final ratings in February after almost all players have signed is not an indicator of how those will produce on the field. I am reminded of a particular 5-star recruit who signed with Southern Miss. He showed flashes and had talent, but he was never the superstar that USM hoped for, especially after breaking his leg in a bowl game after his freshman year.

Yes, highly ranked recruits generally produce more consistently than lowly ranked recruits. And P5 schools will continue to get the vast majority of the highly ranked recruits. The P5 conferences are not dying -- a ridiculous assertion to begin with -- and the G5 conferences are not catching up. In fact, the gulf is about to get much larger due to the disparity in resources.

One more thing about these rankings. Check the average rating of recruits. You have to go down to #52 to get the first G5 school and it's October. G5s don't normally make big jumps in these rankings, but rather the P5 schools who are waiting on commitments from four and five star players make the jumps. Plus when they miss on a four or five star, they often cherry pick the best of those who had previously committed to a G5 school. It ain't getting better for the G5s.

(10-22-2014 06:59 AM)Shannon Panther Wrote:  This is a textbook example of the use of selective data to support a conclusion. You took the top 25℅ of the G5 and compared it to the bottom 25% of the P5 to conclude that there isn't an advantage in recruiting. Thank you for proving the old adage about 3 kinds of lies; lies, damned lies, and statistics.

"Most men, when they think they are thinking, are merely rearranging their prejudices."
- Knute Rockne

(10-22-2014 09:51 AM)BoiseStateOfMind Wrote:  I wouldn't say the power conferences are "dying."

I do think you will see more highly-ranked recruits start going to the top G5 programs, though. The 24/7 media cycle means that G5 schools are on TV just as much as the P5, and it won't hurt their chances of being drafted high.

Yes this is more along the lines of what I was trying to say.

Its not a slight to play in a G5 conference over a P5. Now 85% of the top programs are in a P5 conference. It doesn't stop a program like Boise State from reaching its potential.

The better positioned G5's have the potential to go on a 4-5 year run like Boise State did and challenge for a playoff spot. It won't be an every year thing like Alabama or Florida State but it can be like Baylor or West Virginia for a few years at the very top before dropping back to earth......a run like Boise State that builds up a program to new attendance/facility heights.

Georgia Southern could be another Boise State with the pace they are going at. They've got the recruiting state and fan support potential.

ECU I see more as a traditional tweener school like BYU and Houston that had a nice run in the past and traditionally has played a semi-power conference schedule. They've had good days in the past and earned respect. I'm not sure the conditions are in place however for their program to explode like 90% of their fans think.

(10-22-2014 10:38 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The state of Alabama only has 9 FBS/FCS programs but 84 recruits that sign at the FBS level, significantly more than North Carolina.

FBS
Alabama
Auburn
UAB
Troy
South Alabama

FCS
Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Jacksonville State
Samford

Again dude you are so blinded by your agenda you can not even see straight.

Out of those 84 recruits that Alabama supposedly produces do you think all 84 are going to Alabama schools?

Every single team in the SEC recruits in Alabama. ACC teams recruit in Alabama. The entire nation recruits the 4-5 star players from Alabama.

Even the 2-3 star players in Alabama are recruited by teams like USM, La Tech, ULL, ULM, and heck I have a cousin that is being recruited by Ohio.

Your numbers make absolutely no sense. ECU is in a much better position than anyone not named Alabama or Auburn in Alabama regardless of how many recruits this state can produce.

(10-22-2014 11:48 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 09:51 AM)BoiseStateOfMind Wrote:  I wouldn't say the power conferences are "dying."

I do think you will see more highly-ranked recruits start going to the top G5 programs, though. The 24/7 media cycle means that G5 schools are on TV just as much as the P5, and it won't hurt their chances of being drafted high.

ECU I see more as a traditional tweener school like BYU and Houston that had a nice run in the past and traditionally has played a semi-power conference schedule. They've had good days in the past and earned respect. I'm not sure the conditions are in place however for their program to explode like 90% of their fans think.

So explain this logic to me.

How are the conditions in place for Boise? They are a small school, in a small state, a 37,000 stadium with declining attendance, the academics are nothing special, the population of the state is small, according to you the number of recruits a state produces is important and that also is small.

And you say the conditions are not in place for schools like Houston, ECU, and BYU who have access to much better resources.

(10-22-2014 11:05 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 11:48 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 09:51 AM)BoiseStateOfMind Wrote:  I wouldn't say the power conferences are "dying."

I do think you will see more highly-ranked recruits start going to the top G5 programs, though. The 24/7 media cycle means that G5 schools are on TV just as much as the P5, and it won't hurt their chances of being drafted high.

ECU I see more as a traditional tweener school like BYU and Houston that had a nice run in the past and traditionally has played a semi-power conference schedule. They've had good days in the past and earned respect. I'm not sure the conditions are in place however for their program to explode like 90% of their fans think.

So explain this logic to me.

How are the conditions in place for Boise? They are a small school, in a small state, a 37,000 stadium with declining attendance, the academics are nothing special, the population of the state is small, according to you the number of recruits a state produces is important and that also is small.

And you say the conditions are not in place for schools like Houston, ECU, and BYU who have access to much better resources.

Boise State has better resources than ECU and far more tradition. They've got an entire state behind them. Stadium is not as large but check out Boise's ticket prices. Other facilities are generally better than ECU.

Boise plays on the fact that outside of Oregon they've been the best program the last 15 years in the Northwest. They don't have the competition like there is back East with 1 zillion programs. ECU is a high quality G5 that competes every year in their conference but located in North Carolina is at a strategic disadvantage.

Houston they've had some great teams in the past and have that new stadium. They are facing a lot of new competitors instate with UTSA, Texas State and an upgraded North Texas with that new stadium. How are those programs any different at this point from Houston? Back in the day they weren't on the scene and Houston grabbed the surplus of recruits.

BYU is solid every year but with Utah in the PAC and the rise of Boise State they've lost their edge somewhat. They are physically built like a P5 school but are not attracting the pro style QB's anymore. Utah and Boise just were not on their level 20 years ago.

(10-22-2014 10:47 PM)TrojanCampaign Wrote:  

(10-22-2014 10:38 AM)Kittonhead Wrote:  The state of Alabama only has 9 FBS/FCS programs but 84 recruits that sign at the FBS level, significantly more than North Carolina.

FBS
Alabama
Auburn
UAB
Troy
South Alabama

FCS
Alabama A&M
Alabama State
Jacksonville State
Samford

Again dude you are so blinded by your agenda you can not even see straight.

Out of those 84 recruits that Alabama supposedly produces do you think all 84 are going to Alabama schools?

Every single team in the SEC recruits in Alabama. ACC teams recruit in Alabama. The entire nation recruits the 4-5 star players from Alabama.

Even the 2-3 star players in Alabama are recruited by teams like USM, La Tech, ULL, ULM, and heck I have a cousin that is being recruited by Ohio.

Your numbers make absolutely no sense. ECU is in a much better position than anyone not named Alabama or Auburn in Alabama regardless of how many recruits this state can produce.

Boise State's ONLY chance is to convince the State of Idaho to push a merging of The University of Idaho with Boise State thus creating The University of Idaho at Boise State. Then, after putting into place equivalent recruiting standards as other PAC Universities, perhaps Boise State might have a chance to fill out the final slot in the final major movement that is upcoming.

They are not the most likely choice though. Houston is much higher up on the list, as is ECU if the cards fall just right for ECU to benefit.

So if Boise State fans want to ramble on about their chances, they would be better off writing letters to influential people about the absolute necessity of bringing Boise State into the fold within the State of Idaho.